Thoughts on the article at Wotseries.com re: Aviendha, Perrin etc.

[Andra]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:37 AM, Nik said:

 

The Sept and Clan were added in by Wotseries under the assumption that it was Aviendha. The actual script had fake names and words for everything.

I hadn't noticed that.

If so, there's really nothing at all tying that conversation to Aviendha at all.  It's Gaul, whatever name or gender they assign him.

[Andra]

21 hours ago, Mailman said:

I really did not get a feeling that Bain and Chiad where lovers from the books. 

39 minutes ago, Dagon Thyne said:

I did.  Or at least that they were more than just close friends.    I always assumed that there was or had been a sexual element to their relationship.

They absolutely were more than just close friends.  They were First Sisters who had undergone the same ritual Elayne and Aviendha eventually did.

They would have started out as close friends (whatever other dynamic their relationship had) whose bond deepened enough to decide to go through that process.

 

I don't doubt that some - perhaps even a majority - of Aiel first siblings through this unique bond include a sexual aspect.  But nothing about it actually requires that.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Andra

[Dagon Thyne]

They already showed a desire to include LGBTQ elements to the story.  They even hinted that Rand's harem was gonna be shifted towards being mor polyamous (which is when multiple people have a shared sexual and romantic relationship), with Elayne and Avienha being bisexual and having a three way rrlationshi with Rand.  So, it would't surprise me at all to see them add that type of element to Perrin and Faile's relationship.  And adding a shared attraction to a unified, female version of Gaul, Bain, and Chiad would the easiest way to do that.  Especially if they expanded on Faile's existing interest in Aiel culture and made her the woman's first sister.  You could still include the teasing and banter that Gaul went through.

 

The only issue would be marriage.  If the woman was still a MotS, and they were first sisters, that would be an issue.

 

They could hint at a mutual attraction between Perrin and the woman and have Faile be jealous.  And then develop that into a more polyamorous thing later on.

 

I would suspect that in the final season, the woman would confess her feelings for Perrin (or both, if they go with a polyamorous route) and express a desire to become Faile's sister-wife following the last battle. 

[WhiteVeils]

I don't think they'll go the polyamorous route for Perrin.  There are indications they are trying to showcase a variety of relationships, not just one kind of relationship.   They may change Gaul to be female and interested in two men, to counterpoint Rand and his multiple women, but changing the relationship between Aviendha and Elayne to polyamorous rather than polygamy is barely a change at all.

[SinisterDeath]

On 6/27/2022 at 12:22 PM, WhiteVeils said:

I don't think they'll go the polyamorous route for Perrin.  There are indications they are trying to showcase a variety of relationships, not just one kind of relationship.   They may change Gaul to be female and interested in two men, to counterpoint Rand and his multiple women, but changing the relationship between Aviendha and Elayne to polyamorous rather than polygamy is barely a change at all.

I can see a Bromance ala Scrubs style between Perrin and Gaul. It's already basically cannon. 😛

 

[Skipp]

While I don't necessarily think they will go the route of a polyamorous route for Perrin. If they did I think they would make Perrin Bi.  The unfortunate love Teepee in Episode 7 was a poorly placed trope that the show didn't need(I suspect it was added to fill time due to having to fill for missing Mat dialogue) but I think there is a hint that Perrin wasn't attracted to Egwene but to Rand.  Which would end up making his "My Wife is the only women I ever loved" completely true in the context.

 

While I prefer they not take this route and that the event in the episode was simply a combination of Nynaeve misreading the room and Rand completely on edge about being the DR, I could see this as the conclusion for it.

[Nik]

1 hour ago, Skipp said:

While I don't necessarily think they will go the route of a polyamorous route for Perrin. If they did I think they would make Perrin Bi.  The unfortunate love Teepee in Episode 7 was a poorly placed trope that the show didn't need(I suspect it was added to fill time due to having to fill for missing Mat dialogue) but I think there is a hint that Perrin wasn't attracted to Egwene but to Rand.  Which would end up making his "My Wife is the only women I ever loved" completely true in the context.

 

While I prefer they not take this route and that the event in the episode was simply a combination of Nynaeve misreading the room and Rand completely on edge about being the DR, I could see this as the conclusion for it.

I have considered this, but if it was Rand, the Black Wind wouldn't have said he loved *another woman* more than his wife.

[Skipp]

3 minutes ago, Nik said:

I have considered this, but if it was Rand, the Black Wind wouldn't have said he loved *another woman* more than his wife.

 

I had forgotten exactly what The Black Wind specifically said to him, so you are probably right there.

[DojoToad]

32 minutes ago, Nik said:

I have considered this, but if it was Rand, the Black Wind wouldn't have said he loved *another woman* more than his wife.

Whew

[SilentRoamer]

Perrin having a sexual/romantic interest in Rand would probably be the line at which point I would stop watching the show if they were ever to do that. 

 

Same with Avhienda and Elayne. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by SilentRoamer

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, SilentRoamer said:

Perrin having a sexual/romantic interest in Rand would probably be the line at which point I would stop watching the show if they were ever to do that. 

 

Same with Avhienda and Elayne. 

They already crossed the line with me - nothing to do with character relationships.  Now it is just the long wait to see if they push further out or make a course correction in S2...

[Nik]

2 hours ago, SilentRoamer said:

Perrin having a sexual/romantic interest in Rand would probably be the line at which point I would stop watching the show if they were ever to do that. 

 

Same with Avhienda and Elayne. 

 

I'm almost 100% sure there won't be any Perrin/Rand. But there's a very high chance Aviendha/Elayne is happening. Probably not until later though. Maybe season 3 or 4.

[DaddyFinn]

Elayne and Aviendha becoming first sisters is a great plot but I wouldn't cry if we got something else instead

[Nik]

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

Elayne and Aviendha becoming first sisters is a great plot but I wouldn't cry if we got something else instead

 

I find it weird that the books heavily imply first-sisters occasionally enter into sexual relationships together, but it's still called "sisters". So I wouldn't mind if it became clearer either way.

[nsmallw]

Its possible to be just friends and not lovers. First sisters don't need to be sexualized either. I get that they want to broaden the audience but they don't need to sexualize every relationship, even in our sex obsessed culture.

[SinisterDeath]

31 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

Its possible to be just friends and not lovers. First sisters don't need to be sexualized either. I get that they want to broaden the audience but they don't need to sexualize every relationship, even in our sex obsessed culture.

Like how the Bath Scene in the show wasn't sexual, but people made it sexual?

[Nik]

1 hour ago, nsmallw said:

Its possible to be just friends and not lovers. First sisters don't need to be sexualized either. I get that they want to broaden the audience but they don't need to sexualize every relationship, even in our sex obsessed culture.

I agree, and that's why I find it weird that RJ made some first sisters have a sexual relationship in the books. It's not explicitly laid out but it's very heavily implied. I find it weird to associate sisterhood with sex. So I hope the show makes first sisters strictly sisters, or comes up with a different terminology for women who have an intimate relationship with each other and/or a third partner, or both.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Nik

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

Like how the Bath Scene in the show wasn't sexual, but people made it sexual?

I personally didn't see it as sexual - was definitely surprised though.  Why would they have a hot tub-sized bathtub at the ass-end of Andor?  Plus the show was heading toward the Borderlands anyway - why not wait until then to show men and women sharing a bath?  You know different cultures in the Two Rivers and the Borderlands...

[SinisterDeath]

19 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I personally didn't see it as sexual - was definitely surprised though.  Why would they have a hot tub-sized bathtub at the ass-end of Andor?  Plus the show was heading toward the Borderlands anyway - why not wait until then to show men and women sharing a bath?  You know different cultures in the Two Rivers and the Borderlands...

*Watches the scene again.*
Huh, I guess it is hot tub sized.

It's also constructed like a barrel.
I think this was left over from a massive kegger.

Some fun math.

If that were a 300 gallon hot tub, it would take 66 Million Joules of energy to heat it from 90F to 115F. That's ~66 sticks of TNT.

There's approximately 120M Joules in a Gallon of Gas. With a swish of her finger, she expended the energy of half a gallon of gas to instantaneously heat the water in that tub.

Mechanically, that's a pretty good demonstration of just how flipping powerful Moiraine is, and by extension the one power. It'll be interesting if they go into how dangerous fire weaves are.

 

[SilentRoamer]

16 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Like how the Bath Scene in the show wasn't sexual, but people made it sexual?

 

Yeah it didn't have a sexy time vibe to me. Unlike Rand and Egwene basically getting it on in the Common Room.... 🤣

[Nik]

19 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I personally didn't see it as sexual - was definitely surprised though.  Why would they have a hot tub-sized bathtub at the ass-end of Andor?  Plus the show was heading toward the Borderlands anyway - why not wait until then to show men and women sharing a bath?  You know different cultures in the Two Rivers and the Borderlands...

The practical answer is that the show came in the wake of GoT and Witcher and they had execs telling them to put a naked butt in episode 1.

[DojoToad]

18 minutes ago, Nik said:

The practical answer is that the show came in the wake of GoT and Witcher and they had execs telling them to put a naked butt in episode 1.

I imagine that is exactly why.

[WhiteVeils]

I thought it was because they needed a very dramatic way of showing in one scene that these two people were extremely intimate and casual about their intimacy without actually having any sexual relationship or sexual desire for each other at all.  I think with one very short scene they definitely showed that.

[SinisterDeath]

2 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

I thought it was because they needed a very dramatic way of showing in one scene that these two people were extremely intimate and casual about their intimacy without actually having any sexual relationship or sexual desire for each other at all.  I think with one very short scene they definitely showed that.

That's definitely a part of it, but there were still (way too many) people upset that "Moiraine had sex with Lan" because they shared a bath.

I dunno who needs to hear this, but Bathtub (Pool/Lake/Ocean) sex... is something that only really happens on TV... Yes... people try it, but it's not fun for anyone involved, least of all the fish in the vicinity. 

 

[Nik]

2 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

I thought it was because they needed a very dramatic way of showing in one scene that these two people were extremely intimate and casual about their intimacy without actually having any sexual relationship or sexual desire for each other at all.  I think with one very short scene they definitely showed that.

 

Agreed, I think the writers found a good way to take "must have naked butt" and turn it into something that was relevant, character- and world-building for the story.