Alanna and her Warders

[expat]

Quote

Subtle?  So the dark friend mentioning that 10 (?) men couldn’t break the door down, and then Rand doing it by himself is subtle?

It was subtle enough that every watcher didn't immediately conclude that the show identified Rand as the Dragon.  How many posts on this site continued to argue about the possibility of someone other than Rand was the Dragon even after this episode?

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, expat said:

It was subtle enough that every watcher didn't immediately conclude that the show identified Rand as the Dragon.  How many posts on this site continued to argue about the possibility of someone other than Rand was the Dragon even after this episode?

The usual reaction from non-readers that I've seen was "so his power is super strength".

[DojoToad]

4 hours ago, expat said:

It was subtle enough that every watcher didn't immediately conclude that the show identified Rand as the Dragon.  How many posts on this site continued to argue about the possibility of someone other than Rand was the Dragon even after this episode?

Not worried about the identity of the Dragon here.  But that you thought a darkfriend mentioning an impregnable door that was immediately broken through by Rand was subtle.

[Andra]

11 hours ago, expat said:

It was subtle enough that every watcher didn't immediately conclude that the show identified Rand as the Dragon.  How many posts on this site continued to argue about the possibility of someone other than Rand was the Dragon even after this episode?

Non-readers didn't immediately conclude Rand was the Dragon Reborn because "a man who could channel" was never identifed in the show as being any kind of deciding factor.  People on this site, who knew that the books absolutely required it were still debating what the show would do because the show was still dicking around with the Big Mystery ™ and refusing to make that clear.

But that has nothing to do with whether or not this was subtle.  It wasn't.  Nor was it supposed to be.  It was supposed to have no other possible explanation.

 

As opposed to the equivalent book scene, with the lightning.  Which occurred during a thunderstorm.  A storm that was the reason they accepted the storeroom as a place to spend the night, rather than sleeping in the stable.  As written in the book, the conclusion by both Mat and Rand was that they had gotten lucky, not that Rand had channeled.

In the books, neither Rand nor Mat figured out that Rand had channeled on their trip until after the Eye.  In the show, everyone figured out that Rand channeled to get away from the darkfriend who knew how to use a sword better than he did.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Andra

[Elder_Haman]

On 8/13/2022 at 6:10 AM, DojoToad said:

Terminator darkfriend

This is such a bizarre notion. She used her arms while she ran. Like many other people who use their arms. In no way did she resemble the T1000. LOL.

 

[DojoToad]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is such a bizarre notion. She used her arms while she ran. Like many other people who use their arms. In no way did she resemble the T1000. LOL.

 

Especially after Thom's knife went through her neck.  Not nearly as tough as the T1000.

[expat]

Quote

Not worried about the identity of the Dragon here.  But that you thought a darkfriend mentioning an impregnable door that was immediately broken through by Rand was subtle.

Whether the series was going to stick with Rand as the Dragon was a (maybe the) pressing topic here throughout the series.  If the scene was so overt and definitive, don't you think that it would have driven significant discussion? 

 

Here are all the quotes from the Episode 3 thread about the topic:

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And I'm assumig that breaking down the door is Rand's "channelling moment"... they're really going out of their way to make the One Power underwhelming. 

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Rand’s channeling being ‘super strength’ was particularly bland. I wonder if they are going to push the sickness angle when he is originally getting closer to touching the source.

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Rand absolutely channeled there, yeah? To break down the door? Excited to see "feverish from touching the Source" next week

 

Here is your post on Episode 3

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I'm glad some of you are liking it.  Overall was extremely disappointed through episode 3.  The stuff they cut, the stuff they added, the stuff they changed.  I liked very little of it.  Don't know if I would have liked it better without the book background.  Will probably watch all 3 episodes again to verify my first impression.  But right now episode 4 may be make or break for me.  ?

Pretty underwhelming for such an important event.

 

I stand on my opinion that it was subtle (enough).

[expat]

Quote

Non-readers didn't immediately conclude Rand was the Dragon Reborn because "a man who could channel" was never identifed in the show as being any kind of deciding factor.  

The major reason throughout the series that Nyn and Egwene were possible Dragon candidates were because they were so strong in the One Power.  The fact that one of the possible male Dragons could channel was just supposed to be a "who cares" seems a little unbelievable.  

 

Quote

As opposed to the equivalent book scene, with the lightning.  Which occurred during a thunderstorm.  A storm that was the reason they accepted the storeroom as a place to spend the night, rather than sleeping in the stable.  As written in the book, the conclusion by both Mat and Rand was that they had gotten lucky, not that Rand had channeled.

Story Rand and Mat can believe anything the author wants them to believe, but natural lightning doesn't knock down stone walls in the middle of a building.

[DojoToad]

2 hours ago, expat said:

Whether the series was going to stick with Rand as the Dragon was a (maybe the) pressing topic here throughout the series.  If the scene was so overt and definitive, don't you think that it would have driven significant discussion? 

 

Here are all the quotes from the Episode 3 thread about the topic:

 

Here is your post on Episode 3

Pretty underwhelming for such an important event.

 

I stand on my opinion that it was subtle (enough).

There is a difference between being subtle and poorly done. I found it both poorly done and overt. But to each their own. 

[Andra]

3 hours ago, expat said:

The major reason throughout the series that Nyn and Egwene were possible Dragon candidates were because they were so strong in the One Power.  The fact that one of the possible male Dragons could channel was just supposed to be a "who cares" seems a little unbelievable.  

The show had not remotely made that clear by the time of this episode.  All Moiraine had said to anyone was "one of you is the Dragon Reborn."  She had not told anyone what she based that on, or what the Prophecies required.  In fact, by the time Rand told her it was him (not the other way around) she STILL hadn't.  At no point in Season 1 did she tell any of the Two Rivers folk that channeling was necessary.  Even if it had been made clear, there was no reason by this point to believe the show wouldn't make them all able to channel.

No one said it would be a "who cares" moment.  Just that the show had not given anyone a reason to think it was any kind of giveaway.

If a woman could be the Dragon, the fact that a man could channel doesn't mean anything except that a man could channel.

 

3 hours ago, expat said:

Story Rand and Mat can believe anything the author wants them to believe, but natural lightning doesn't knock down stone walls in the middle of a building.

What stone walls were knocked down in the middle of a building?

 

The wall that was hit by the lightning bolt was an exterior wall with a window in it.  A window they could see had bars they couldn't get through.  Gode and his henchmen were on the other side of a simple wooden door that had no lock.  A door they were forcing their way through as the lightning hit.  No interior stone wall was "knocked down."

 

And until the invention of the lightning rod, buildings got hit by lightning quite frequently.

[WhiteVeils]

12 hours ago, Andra said:

And until the invention of the lightning rod, buildings got hit by lightning quite frequently.

 

Yes...the highest part of the building gets hit by lightning...not the basement. And the lightning did blast Gode and the guards in the hallway as well as the guards in the courtyard -- without killing Rand.  It was pretty clear.

[Andra]

3 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

Yes...the highest part of the building gets hit by lightning...not the basement. And the lightning did blast Gode and the guards in the hallway as well as the guards in the courtyard -- without killing Rand.  It was pretty clear.

They weren't in a basement.  They were in a ground-floor storage room.  With a barred window they could see out of.

And no, in the real world lightning didn't just strike the highest parts of buildings.  Especially if a lower part of the building was a better conductor than the highest part.  Like a stone wall rather than a wooden roof.  In which case lightning would frequently strike near the top of the wall. 

Near where a barred window would be in a ground-floor exterior storage room.

 

As a recent example, witnesses say this damage was caused by a lightning strike.  Lightning hit near the top of the exterior masonry wall, not the peak of the wooden roof:

 

Yes, it was clear to readers that something out of the ordinary saved their bacon.  But if that reader didn't already know Rand could channel (say, if it was their first read-through) it wasn't blatant.  Readers were intended to put the pieces together as the story progressed, but this was no more of a dead giveaway than Bela running all night, or the boom on the Spray whacking a Trolloc.

 

Breaking down the door at the Four Kings doesn't really have any alternative explanation.

 

[WhiteVeils]

2 minutes ago, Andra said:

They weren't in a basement.  They were in a ground-floor storage room.  With a barred window they could see out of

 

It having a small barred window high on the wall doesn't mean they were above ground...basements can have windows.

 

But beyond that...'no other explanations'?  Superstrength has been given as one.  Luck is another (the door is not as barred as Dana thought it was), or she was just wrong about how strong it was.  Or a secret someone opening it from the outside. Most non-readers thought right off it was superstrength, not channeling at all.

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

It having a small barred window high on the wall doesn't mean they were above ground...basements can have windows.

 

But beyond that...'no other explanations'?  Superstrength has been given as one.  Luck is another (the door is not as barred as Dana thought it was), or she was just wrong about how strong it was.  Or a secret someone opening it from the outside. Most non-readers thought right off it was superstrength, not channeling at all.

So when Logain channeled, you could clearly see the black wisps.  I only watched the episode when Rand broke down the door twice.  Does anyone remember any black wisps?  Or was that hidden?

[WhiteVeils]

7 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

So when Logain channeled, you could clearly see the black wisps.  I only watched the episode when Rand broke down the door twice.  Does anyone remember any black wisps?  Or was that hidden?

There was no black wisps or white threads of the power when Rand broke down the door. It was filmed from Dana's point of view, and she can't see the power.  Only when we look at the same scene from Rand's POV in episode 7 are the threads visible.

[Andra]

12 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

It having a small barred window high on the wall doesn't mean they were above ground...basements can have windows.

 

But beyond that...'no other explanations'?  Superstrength has been given as one.  Luck is another (the door is not as barred as Dana thought it was), or she was just wrong about how strong it was.  Or a secret someone opening it from the outside. Most non-readers thought right off it was superstrength, not channeling at all.

Yes, basements can have windows.  But they weren't in a basement.  The storage room was at the end of a hall that led directly off the common room of the inn.  There weren't any stairs on the way.  And there were no upper floors above them, as the roof leaked directly into the room.

Also, the window wasn't particularly high in the wall, any more than you expect in a storage room.  Rand and Mat were able to put their hands on it at the same time, as they tried to open it.  Without needing to climb up on anything.  And when they left, they didn't have to climb up to get out.  They just stepped through onto the ground.

 

Incidentally, we don't know that anyone inside the building was "blasted."  The wooden door was knocked off its hinges, but they never looked in the hall after the lightning strike.  Only the men outside are specifically said to have been hit.  We also know that someone inside the building came to the hole and shook their fist as they got away.  Someone who knew about them.  Could have been Gode, could have been one of the guards, we don't know.

 

And yes, the show intended there to be no other explanation for Rand breaking down the door.  Even if it were "superstrength" it still meant channeling - since he didn't have super strength otherwise.

 

[SilentRoamer]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:33 PM, WhiteVeils said:

There was no black wisps or white threads of the power when Rand broke down the door. It was filmed from Dana's point of view, and she can't see the power.  Only when we look at the same scene from Rand's POV in episode 7 are the threads visible.

So whose perspective are we seeing Saidin from when Logain breaks free of all the Aes Sedai? He is the only Male Channeler in the room - if you are going to say we see it from his perspective then how do we also see the threads of Saidar?

Only choosing to show the threads for Saidin when convenient is a dirty and cheap plot trick. Making it seem like Rand has super strength as opposed to what the books give us (ambiguous use of the power which could be attributed to natural phenomena) is far different. 

Anyway the whole "the Dragon could be a woman" is the most ridiculous and stupid side plot and renders most of the Karatheon Prophecies completely useless, it would mean Moraines understanding of the Dragons return is flawed (along with her bringing what she assumes to be a Male Angreal to the Dragon), it means Gitaras Foretelling is useless. The whole things just spits on Robert Jordans plot - the Dragon was NEVER going to be a woman, so why frame it that way?  

The whole Dragon could be any of the 5 is one of the stupidest show creations imo. I find it more egregious than wasting an episode on Stepin. 

[WhiteVeils]

17 minutes ago, SilentRoamer said:

So whose perspective are we seeing Saidin from when Logain breaks free of all the Aes Sedai? He is the only Male Channeler in the room - if you are going to say we see it from his perspective then how do we also see the threads of Saidar?

Only choosing to show the threads for Saidin when convenient is a dirty and cheap plot trick. Making it seem like Rand has super strength as opposed to what the books give us (ambiguous use of the power which could be attributed to natural phenomena) is far different. 

Anyway the whole "the Dragon could be a woman" is the most ridiculous and stupid side plot and renders most of the Karatheon Prophecies completely useless, it would mean Moraines understanding of the Dragons return is flawed (along with her bringing what she assumes to be a Male Angreal to the Dragon), it means Gitaras Foretelling is useless. The whole things just spits on Robert Jordans plot - the Dragon was NEVER going to be a woman, so why frame it that way?  

The whole Dragon could be any of the 5 is one of the stupidest show creations imo. I find it more egregious than wasting an episode on Stepin. 

 

Most of the shots are from just one perspective, even in that fight. The one you're talking about is a complicated shot to show only the one perspective because it has Logain forming 'spears' of the power to spear the Aes Sedai while from Moiraine's POV showing them blocking.  It's really hard for the audience to understand what's going on if they don't show both, which is why they show it.  The scene is generally Moiraine's POV there.

 

Them showing the threads for Saidin when necessary isn't a dirty and cheap plot trick...it's just storytelling clarity in a visual medium.  You don't like it...it's fine. But there's no universal principle of filmmaking that is being ignored to do it. It's your own personal opinion.

 

The mystery of who the Dragon could be only expanded the original mystery Moiraine felt from 3 to 5....it's in the books. The show just makes it so the Audience is presented the same dilemma Moiraine was in the books and expanded the candidates by 2.  It is building the whole series about the line in Memory of Light that it was about all of them.

 

You don't have to like it...obviously you don't.  But it brought in viewers so it did its job.

 

[DojoToad]

3 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Them showing the threads for Saidin when necessary isn't a dirty and cheap plot trick...it's just storytelling clarity in a visual medium.  You don't like it...it's fine. But there's no universal principle of filmmaking that is being ignored to do it. It's your own personal opinion.

 

Didn't know there were universal principals of filmmaking.  But I regard it as a cheat as well.  Showing saidin threads in one scenario but not another to trick (or inform) the audience is a cheat - my personal opinion.  Be consistent.

 

Same reason everyone pointed out the the two-faced politicians during COVID:  Wear a mask, don't travel, don't gather in groups - and then they get caught doing the opposite.  "Rules for thee but not for me."  Gotta love the hypocrisy...

[SilentRoamer]

16 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

 

The mystery of who the Dragon could be only expanded the original mystery Moiraine felt from 3 to 5....it's in the books. The show just makes it so the Audience is presented the same dilemma Moiraine was in the books and expanded the candidates by 2.  It is building the whole series about the line in Memory of Light that it was about all of them.

 

It didn't just expand the candidates by two though though, I wouldn't have an issue with that - it completely changed the dynamic of the person Moraine is looking for, it expanded the candidates to people who could not possibly be the Dragon Reborn - women. It invalidates the Karatheon Cycle completely, 

Excerpts from the Karatheon Cycle below are pretty clear that the Dragon is a Man who can channel - otherwise what would be the point of a female channeller who is the Dragon Reborn - it runs counter to the whole point of the story.

 

Karatheon Cycle: 40+ References to the Dragon being Male, 0 references to HIM being Female. 

And he who shall be born of the Dawn, born of the Maiden, according to Prophecy,
he shall stretch forth his hands to catch the Shadow.

All Glory be to the Creator, and to the Light, and to he who shall be born again. May the Light save us from him. Yet one shall be born to face the Shadow, born once more as he was born before, and shall be born again, time without end. The Dragon shall be Reborn, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth at his rebirth. In sackcloth and ashes shall he clothe the people, and he shall break the world again by his coming, tearing apart all ties that bind. Like the unfettered dawn shall he blind us, and burn us,
yet shall the Dragon Reborn confront the Shadow at the Last Battle, and his blood shall give us the Light.
Let tears flow, O ye people of the world. Weep for your salvation.

On the slopes of Dragonmount shall he be born, born of a maiden wedded to no man.
He will be of the ancient blood, and raised by the old blood. When the winds of Tarmon Gai'don scour the earth, he will face the Shadow and bring forth Light again in the world.
For he shall come like the breaking dawn, and shatter the world again with his coming, and make it anew.

Twice and twice shall he be marked, twice to live, and twice to die. Once the heron, to set his path.
Twice the heron, to name him true. Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost. Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay. Five ride forth, and four return. Above the Watchers Over the Waves shall he proclaim himself, bannered 'cross the sky in fire. The Stone of Tear will never fall, till Callandor is wielded by the Dragon’s hand. The Stone of Tear will never fall, till the People of the Dragon come. Into the heart he thrusts his sword, into the heart, to hold their hearts. who draws it out shall follow after, What hand can grasp that fearful blade? Power of the Shadow made human flesh wakened to turmoil, strife and ruin.
The Reborn One, marked and bleeding, dances the sword in dreams and mist, chains the Shadowsworn to his will, from the city, lost and forsaken, leads the spears to war once more, breaks the spears and makes them see, truth long hidden in the ancient dream.

He shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf. With his coming are the dread fires born again. The hills burn, and the land turns sere. The tides of men run out, and the hours dwindle. The wall is pierced, and the veil of parting raised. Storms rumble beyond the horizon, and the fires of heaven purge the earth. There is no salvation without destruction, no hope this side of death. The unstained tower, broken, bends knee to the forgotten sign. The seas rage, and stormclouds gather unseen. Beyond the horizon, hidden fires swell, and serpents nestle in the bosom. What was exalted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up. Order burns to clear his path. There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he is one with the land.
Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield.
He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow.
Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love. As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men, and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes.
The trumpets of war shall sound at his footsteps, the ravens feed at his voice, and he shall wear a crown of swords. Master of the lightnings, rider on the storm, wearer of a crown of swords, spinner out of fate.
Who thinks he turns the Wheel of Time, may learn the truth too late.[69]

The Seals that hold back the night shall weaken, and in the heart of winter shall winter’s heart be born,
amid the wailings of lamentation and the gnashing of teeth, for winter’s heart shall ride a black horse, and the name of it is Death.  And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,
when the right hand falters and the left hand strays, that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight, and all that is, all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,
while the winds of the Shadow grow. He shall heal the wounds of madness and cutting of hope.

He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be one.

He shall bind the nine moons to serve him.[58] The north shall he tie to the east, and the west shall be bound to the south. Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.
Once for mourning, once for birth. Red on black, the Dragon’s blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.
In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow. 

His blood on the rocks of Shayol Ghul, washing away the Shadow, sacrifice for man’s salvation. He shall break chains and put others into chains. Fortune rides like the sun on high
with the fox that makes the ravens fly. Luck his soul, the lightning his eye, He snatches the moons from out of the sky. When the Wolf King carries the hammer, thus are the final days known.
When the Fox marries the raven, and the trumpets of battle are blown.

 

38 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Them showing the threads for Saidin when necessary isn't a dirty and cheap plot trick...it's just storytelling clarity in a visual medium.  You don't like it...it's fine. But there's no universal principle of filmmaking that is being ignored to do it. It's your own personal opinion.

 

 

 

Of course - much like jump scares in horror movies, I find them dirty cheap tricks, of course other people like them. I'll just preface this here, in case of any doubt, when I comment I give my own opinions, I do not expect these to be Universally held, nor do I promote them as objective fact. One mans trash is another mans treasure as the saying goes. 

[SilentRoamer]

31 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Didn't know there were universal principals of filmmaking.  But I regard it as a cheat as well.  Showing saidin threads in one scenario but not another to trick (or inform) the audience is a cheat - my personal opinion.  Be consistent.

 

 

It was the same cheap trick they used with Tam telling Rand he was found, they did it in a flashback scene (once again holding important information from the viewer) because the setup they had just didn't work. Guessing who the Dragon is does not really factor in to EotW - its pretty obvious. 

It also seems pretty obvious this was not done for story reasons but for political ones - I cannot see any other possible reason why a woman could be the DR.

Problem is it destroys all of the prophecies and makes Moraine look stupid. 

[DojoToad]

13 minutes ago, SilentRoamer said:

Problem is it destroys all of the prophecies and makes Moraine look stupid. 

Depends on if they changed the prophecies for the show as well.  Considering how much they changed from the books don't know how they couldn't have changed the prophecies also - but I only watched the first 4 episodes so don't know if they got into that.

[WhiteVeils]

OK. Couple things.

 

 

Inclusion of women as important to the world is not a 'political reason'.  There's nothing political about the inclusion of women in anything. Women are half of society.  The exclusion of women from being Ta'veran in the books isn't particularly good either. But I doubt y'all will care about that, so moving on.

 

Including Egwene and Nynaeve as a Ta'veran is a storytelling shortcut that saves a lot of time and adds a lot of explanation at no cost. Nothing to do with being more inclusive of women.  If they are not Ta'veran, than Moiraine should have left Egwene and Nynaeve at the White Tower rather than taking them to the Eye of the World.  Even in Camelyn, she should have sent them on to the White Tower rather than taking them to the blight.  She should have left them in Fal Dara if she couldn't.  There is no reason to take them to the Eye unless they are possible Dragons too.  Making them possible Dragons also explains with no extra time needed why she's willing to take Egwene and why Egwene is willing to go, instead of Egwene being irresponsible and leaving her home when she is needed there  as the villages (as far as she knows) only remaining healer in a time when people need healing. 

Later on, having Egwene be ta'veran shortens the explanation as to why she gets made Amyrlin, gets her dreamer abilities, etc.  She /is/ special.  They don't need other explanations than that...which shortens the screentime needed to allocate to explanations.

Finally, women are a major target audience for the show. If you want $$ to make more of the show, you find things that appeal to your target audience.  Of course bringing women into the central mystery will drive engagement by women and make you more $$, which, in turn, will allow you to make more of the show.

 

Not 'political' reasons. Need, in order to create the show in the first place.

 

Second. Prophecies. That's a nice long chunk of the Karethon cycle that got posted. Littered with 'he'. Doesn't mean anything.

The text of the Karethon cycle can be completely different in the show.  It's only shown up in one scene and we haven't read it.  Making the Dragon potentially female doesn't destroy the Karethon cycle...the cycle is barely in the show yet.  And frankly the exact words of the Karethon cycle are not essential to the adaptation anyway.

Besides that, the Karethon cycle is thousands of years old, written and rewritten. It's as old as the Bible is. Even if in 'show universe' the Karethon cycle had exactly the same words, Moiraine would be intelligent to doubt that it is a literal word for word precise prophecy.  'He' could be being used as the gender neutral....it's been used that way in English for ages.  The cycle as written doesn't even specify channeling.  A whole major theme of the books through the whole series is the uncertainty of prophecy, how it can be misinterpreted and misread. Remember Moiraine trying to convince Rand to capture Illian because of prophecy? Or the Seanchen being convinced Rand must bow to the Crystal Throne?  Moiraine would be intelligent to believe that it could be one of the five, rather than just limiting to the men. Because if she limited it to the men, and she was wrong, then the Dragon would be killed due to her incomplete textual analysis. Better to assume a broader group rather than a narrower one.

 

 

[SilentRoamer]

38 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

OK. Couple things.

 

 

Inclusion of women as important to the world is not a 'political reason'.  There's nothing political about the inclusion of women in anything. Women are half of society.  The exclusion of women from being Ta'veran in the books isn't particularly good either. But I doubt y'all will care about that, so moving on.

 

 

This precludes them already being important in the world. Nynaeve assisted Rand in cleansing Saidin, Egwene discovered how to heal the Pattern from Balefire. The women in the books consistently perform amazing feats in their own right and have their own agency. Of course I don't care that the EF women are not Tav'eren - Mat and Perrin can't channel either. That's the story how it was written. 

 

38 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Later on, having Egwene be ta'veran shortens the explanation as to why she gets made Amyrlin, gets her dreamer abilities, etc.  She /is/ special.  They don't need other explanations than that...which shortens the screentime needed to allocate to explanations.

Finally, women are a major target audience for the show. If you want $$ to make more of the show, you find things that appeal to your target audience.  Of course bringing women into the central mystery will drive engagement by women and make you more $$, which, in turn, will allow you to make more of the show.

 

Not 'political' reasons. Need, in order to create the show in the first place.

 

 

Political reasons in order to sell the show - so it can be tagged with the zeitgeist buzzwords like "inclusivity" "diversity" and "accessibility" - all at the expense of authenticity. Much like the reasons for making the Two Rivers (an isolated community for thousands of years) look like a Starbucks in any modern metropolitan city. 

 

38 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Second. Prophecies. That's a nice long chunk of the Karethon cycle that got posted. Littered with 'he'. Doesn't mean anything.

 

 

 

It means, quite obviously, that the Dragon was, and is Male. Seems self explanatory. 

 

38 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Besides that, the Karethon cycle is thousands of years old, written and rewritten. It's as old as the Bible is. Even if in 'show universe' the Karethon cycle had exactly the same words, Moiraine would be intelligent to doubt that it is a literal word for word precise prophecy.  'He' could be being used as the gender neutral....it's been used that way in English for ages.  The cycle as written doesn't even specify channeling.  A whole major theme of the books through the whole series is the uncertainty of prophecy, how it can be misinterpreted and misread. Remember Moiraine trying to convince Rand to capture Illian because of prophecy? Or the Seanchen being convinced Rand must bow to the Crystal Throne?  Moiraine would be intelligent to believe that it could be one of the five, rather than just limiting to the men. Because if she limited it to the men, and she was wrong, then the Dragon would be killed due to her incomplete textual analysis. Better to assume a broader group rather than a narrower one.

 

 

And yet - much of the prophecy is exactly as written and happens as written, including the 40+ references to the Dragon Reborn being Male, including the known fact the original Dragon was also Male. The whole idea of the Dragon possibly being Female seems totally ridiculous to me (and would have to Moraine in the books), especially for anyone who has read the books. 

In my opinion it panders to a particular type of viewpoint and does nothing positive for the story.

Everyone has different opinions and I speak only for myself and I appreciate you taking the time to spell out your own opinion. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by SilentRoamer

[A Memory Of Why]

I'm not really bothered by the gendered Dragon issue. I head cannoned it as shadowy manipulations, Ishy had thousands of years and the whole evildoer organisation to work with so this doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

Can't imagine it would hurt to mess with the lights prophesys in a way to further the arrogance and self importance of these so called Aes Sedai.

Edited August 19, 2022 by A Memory Of Why