Are they merging Alanna and Myrelle's characters (book + TV Episode 5 spoilers)

[Elgee]

I get the feeling that they're going to merge Myrelle Berengari's character into Alanna Mosvani.

 

It makes sense to me, since they are going to do that with many characters, and these two at times become hard to differentiate. With the events in episode 5, where it seems to be supposed that Alanna would Bond poor Stepin, it suddenly struck me. Bonding Warders who've lost their Aes Sedai was something Myrelle was known for, which is why Moiraine arranged for Lan's bond to pass to her. There seemed to be a bit of foreshadowing re that in the chat between Moiraine and Alanna, where Moiraine mentioned passing of a Bond.

 

Anyone agree? Disagree?

[MasterAblar]

I could see it happening although it's hard to see how it will affect the plot so far in advance not knowing what they will change (and they will have to change things).

[JenniferL]

Yeah, I suspect you are right. Myrelle and Moiraine were friends in the books, but I don’t think Moiraine knew Alanna well at all. 

[TheDreadReader]

It is possible that they mix Alanna and Myrelle.   Thinking through their later plotlines... some of them last across multiple books but have very little screen time.  That can be tricky for a show to keep going.  So, condensing those plotlines to one or two episodes might make sense or just eliminating them completely.

 

Overall, there may be some benefit in thinking of Alanna as being the named represented of a Green Sister for now.  Anything that is relevant for the Green Ajah gets shown via her.   And, if the show finds itself in need of more green sisters down the road for plot reasons then they can add one in for a few episodes or seasons  and let them disappear after they are not needed anymore.

 

That applies to Liandrin too, I suppose.

 

So, I guess that means.  Yes, they are probably merging Myrelle and Alanna in the short term but it is possible that they still introduce Myrelle in the future also.   The trick always when they make changes like this is whether they can avoid writing themselves into a corner with changes to avoid retcons later.

 

[RhienneAgain]

Mixing them would make the scene in the cave at the very end more significant for Nynaeve and Alanna/Myrelle if Alanna had held Lan's bond. 

 

It would make for more potential empathy between Elayne and Nynaeve if both Rand's and Lan's bonds are held by Alanna simultaneously (assuming Elayne knows of this).

 

I actually felt the Steppin conversation with Lan about Steppin not wanting to share a bed with two other men could be forshadowing for Lan having to do that (assuming Myrelle is merged with Alanna and Lan's bond passed to her; also assuming Myrelle's unconventional way of helping Warders deal with their loss is transferred to Alanna).

[DermidAjala]

I 100% expect this. A very clean consolidation of roles.

[Elgee]

2 hours ago, JenniferL said:

Myrelle and Moiraine were friends in the books, but I don’t think Moiraine knew Alanna well at all. 

 

That's what I can recall as well. Going to have to do a quick reread of New Spring just to make sure.

[Elgee]

On a side note, I wonder if "unnamed Red on the right" is perhaps Teslyn? I love that character - hope they keep her!

 

For those who don't remember, here's a quote from WoT Wiki:

Teslyn Baradon is an Aes Sedai and a former Sitter of the Red Ajah. Teslyn has bony fingers. No one had ever thought her beautiful^[1]. She is scrawny, with narrow shoulders, a gaunt face, and a narrow nose^[2]. She has dark brown eyes and thin lips^[3]. After her time as a damane, she fleshed out a bit.

[elteryon]

I agree that Alanna and Myrelle will get consolidated, and that Lan's bond will get passed to Alanna, if not to Nynaeve directly.

 

Also seems like Alanna takes on some of Siuan Sanche's relationship with Moiraine as well. It's been awhile since I've read the books, but weren't Moiraine and Siuan Novices/Accepted together?

 

From episode 5, looks like they are pitting Moiraine and Siuan against each other instead.

Edited December 4, 2021 by elteryon
Alanna not Allana

[Elgee]

4 minutes ago, elteryon said:

Also seems like Allana takes on some of Siuan Sanche's relationship with Moiraine as well. It's been awhile since I've read the books, but weren't Moiraine and Siuan Novices/Accepted together?

 

Good call. I've been wondering if they're changing the Siuan role. Guess we'll see in the next episode?

[dwn]

I agree on Alanna and Myrelle. The overt relationship between the show version of Alanna and her warders is also much closer to Myrelle in the books.

 

I don't expect Siuan and Moiraine's relationship will change much--in the books they were making an effort to downplay their friendship to protect the DR search. To me the show's talk of them being enemies plays into that.

[MasterAblar]

3 hours ago, RhienneAgain said:

Mixing them would make the scene in the cave at the very end more significant for Nynaeve and Alanna/Myrelle if Alanna had held Lan's bond. 

 

It would make for more potential empathy between Elayne and Nynaeve if both Rand's and Lan's bonds are held by Alanna simultaneously (assuming Elayne knows of this).

 

I actually felt the Steppin conversation with Lan about Steppin not wanting to share a bed with two other men could be forshadowing for Lan having to do that (assuming Myrelle is merged with Alanna and Lan's bond passed to her; also assuming Myrelle's unconventional way of helping Warders deal with their loss is transferred to Alanna).

 

Not quite clear why Lan would be sleeping with both Warders in this situation. Just because Alanna does does that and the Warders she has currently do that doesn't mean Lan would have to. He'd just sleep with Alanna.

[TheMountain]

Did anyone else notice the specific phrasing used about bonding in the show? Lot's of references to warders "bonding themselves" to their Aes Sedai and Stepin says "when we bonded." In the books, the action is one-sided and the other party cannot resist. Aes Sedai bond their warders, not the other way around, or through some shared agreement. I'm wondering if the writers thought it presented a consent issue and decided to completely do away with it.... which would be a shame because it *is* a consent issue and a mark against Alanna's character (and those before her who did the same), and that's why it is interesting to explore.

Edited December 4, 2021 by TheMountain

[TheDreadReader]

7 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

Did anyone else notice the specific phrasing used about bonding in the show? Lot's of references to warders "bonding themselves" to their Aes Sedai and Stepin says "when we bonded." In the books, the action is one-sided and the other party cannot resist. Aes Sedai bond their warders, not the other way around, or through some shared agreement. I'm wondering if the writers thought it presented a consent issue and decided to completely do away with it.... which would be a shame because it *is* a consent issue and a mark against Alanna's character (and those before her who did the same), and that's why it is interesting to explore.

 

I noted that as well.   It makes me think that they are looking to cut the more problematic aspects of the bond.  I am actually okay with that b/c it doesn't seem core to the story to me.  On the other hand, if you do want to examine those things, adding Elyas in after showing the Steppin stuff is a good way to deconstruct the concepts.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MasterAblar]

Well, I'd argue Alanna bonding Rand against his will is pretty important. Not core but still important. Certainly not something Rand would agree to under any circumstances. 

 

Bonding is only problematic in the books if the channeler doing it doesn't care about consent. I don't see why the series should do away with the problematic aspects. It's a very real part of the bond.

Edited December 4, 2021 by MasterAblar

[Ryrin]

6 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

It is possible that they mix Alanna and Myrelle.   Thinking through their later plotlines... some of them last across multiple books but have very little screen time.  That can be tricky for a show to keep going.  So, condensing those plotlines to one or two episodes might make sense or just eliminating them completely.

 

Overall, there may be some benefit in thinking of Alanna as being the named represented of a Green Sister for now.  Anything that is relevant for the Green Ajah gets shown via her.   And, if the show finds itself in need of more green sisters down the road for plot reasons then they can add one in for a few episodes or seasons  and let them disappear after they are not needed anymore.

 

That applies to Liandrin too, I suppose.

 

So, I guess that means.  Yes, they are probably merging Myrelle and Alanna in the short term but it is possible that they still introduce Myrelle in the future also.   The trick always when they make changes like this is whether they can avoid writing themselves into a corner with changes to avoid retcons later.

 

There is always a need for more Green Sisters. ?

[RhienneAgain]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Not quite clear why Lan would be sleeping with both Warders in this situation. Just because Alanna does does that and the Warders she has currently do that doesn't mean Lan would have to. He'd just sleep with Alanna.

Because it was implied in the conversation between Steppin and Lan that Steppin would need to become involved in the relationship between Alanna and her Warders if he chose to accept her offer to bond him. Lan will be in the same situation as Steppin was considering entering into if Myrelle and Alanna are merged.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, RhienneAgain said:

Because it was implied in the conversation between Steppin and Lan that Steppin would need to become involved in the relationship between Alanna and her Warders if he chose to accept her offer to bond him. Lan will be in the same situation as Steppin was considering entering into if Myrelle and Alanna are merged.

 

Or... they were just joking around?

 

They were clearly not being very serious. They're drinking and trying to lighten the mood. Hence Lan's joking "You're assuming they want you."

 

I'm having a hard time seeing why sleeping with every Warder would be a requirement to bonding with a green Aes Sedai.

[RhienneAgain]

6 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Or... they were just joking around?

 

They were clearly not being very serious. They're drinking and trying to lighten the mood. Hence Lan's joking "You're assuming they want you."

 

I'm having a hard time seeing why sleeping with every Warder would be a requirement to bonding with a green Aes Sedai.

Maybe.

 

Sleeping with anyone isn't normally part of bonding a green sister, but Myrelle does use sex as one of her methods for saving warders' who've lost their Are Sedai (and uses this method with Lan,). I'm just speculating that if the merge Alanna and Myrelle they may combine these elements. 

[MasterAblar]

46 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

Maybe.

 

Sleeping with anyone isn't normally part of bonding a green sister, but Myrelle does use sex as one of her methods for saving warders' who've lost their Are Sedai (and uses this method with Lan,). I'm just speculating that if the merge Alanna and Myrelle they may combine these elements. 

 

Oh I can totally see them merging Alanna and Myrelle and keeping that aspect (sleeping with the warder to save them). I just don't think that would involved the other Warders. Unless the Warder being saved wanted that I guess. All I'm saying is it's dark enough that Myrelle pretty much forces the Warder she's saving to have sex with her to save them. It would be even darker if she involved other Warders in it, and I don't think that was seriously suggested by the show. 

[Carebear Sedai]

After the last episode and seeing how Stepin's deathrage was framed, treated more like a deep painful grief rather than a complete deranged state, I can actually see the show doing away with the entire Lan/Myrelle plot. More likely, I expect Lan will start riding for the Blight, only to be deterred by his immediate need to protect Nynaeve (and perhaps some show plots that get in his way). I can't see the show stripping away his agency the way the books did. He's already one of the most beloved characters by show watchers if you're paying attention and they will require his character to have more room to grow and change. Additionally, his grieving for Moiraine will be cathartic for the audience who will want to grieve her loss as well. 

[SableSage]

13 hours ago, Elgee said:

I get the feeling that they're going to merge Myrelle Berengari's character into Alanna Mosvani.

 

It makes sense to me, since they are going to do that with many characters, and these two at times become hard to differentiate. With the events in episode 5, where it seems to be supposed that Alanna would Bond poor Stepin, it suddenly struck me. Bonding Warders who've lost their Aes Sedai was something Myrelle was known for, which is why Moiraine arranged for Lan's bond to pass to her. There seemed to be a bit of foreshadowing re that in the chat between Moiraine and Alanna, where Moiraine mentioned passing of a Bond.

 

Anyone agree? Disagree?

 

I haven't watched ep. 5, but from ep.4 I've had this feeling, since she's very familiar with Moiraine. Gosh, I like neither of them in the book, so if they merge Myrelle/Alanna in the show...

 

2 hours ago, Carebear Sedai said:

After the last episode and seeing how Stepin's deathrage was framed, treated more like a deep painful grief rather than a complete deranged state, I can actually see the show doing away with the entire Lan/Myrelle plot. More likely, I expect Lan will start riding for the Blight, only to be deterred by his immediate need to protect Nynaeve (and perhaps some show plots that get in his way). I can't see the show stripping away his agency the way the books did. He's already one of the most beloved characters by show watchers if you're paying attention and they will require his character to have more room to grow and change. Additionally, his grieving for Moiraine will be cathartic for the audience who will want to grieve her loss as well. 

 

I hope for this really. I just can't agree with what Myrelle did in the book to Lan. Is that legitimate way to help someone who grieves? And Myrelle could feel what he feels through the bond, right? I'd rather see him break apart in front of Nynaeve. Besides, with how Lan/Moiraine bond being set up, I'm not sure a lot of people would agree with Myrelle bringing Lan to her bed. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by SableSage

[Elgee]

3 hours ago, SableSage said:

I just can't agree with what Myrelle did in the book to Lan. Is that legitimate way to help someone who grieves?

 

If it helps? She's done it with other Warders and clearly it did. Not all men are the same, just like not all women are the same. It is a fact of life that for some people (not going into statistics here, but I would say more men than women), sex is much more of a casual thing than a deep emotional bonding type thing.

She could be approaching it from that angle, because that is her belief system / past experience.

 

 

3 hours ago, SableSage said:

And Myrelle could feel what he feels through the bond, right? I'd rather see him break apart in front of Nynaeve. Besides, with how Lan/Moiraine bond being set up, I'm not sure a lot of people would agree with Myrelle bringing Lan to her bed. 

 

Even if it WASN'T working on Lan (and nothing says directly that it wasn't - he was still alive when Egwene found them and sent him to Nynaeve), she could perhaps feel that it wasn't, but not understand exactly why. She could even redouble her efforts, thinking she wasn't doing enough. And Lan would comply, because if one thinks of the Malkieri men's relationship with their Carneira, he would be "pre-programmed" to do so. Bonds reflect feelings, not thoughts (well they do in the Books, and before that whole Androl/Pevara rubbish).

[Elgee]

5 hours ago, Carebear Sedai said:

After the last episode and seeing how Stepin's deathrage was framed, treated more like a deep painful grief rather than a complete deranged state, I can actually see the show doing away with the entire Lan/Myrelle plot. More likely, I expect Lan will start riding for the Blight, only to be deterred by his immediate need to protect Nynaeve (and perhaps some show plots that get in his way). I can't see the show stripping away his agency the way the books did. He's already one of the most beloved characters by show watchers if you're paying attention and they will require his character to have more room to grow and change. Additionally, his grieving for Moiraine will be cathartic for the audience who will want to grieve her loss as well. 

 

I really hope they don't vanilla-down this whole story.

[RhienneAgain]

8 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Oh I can totally see them merging Alanna and Myrelle and keeping that aspect (sleeping with the warder to save them). I just don't think that would involved the other Warders. Unless the Warder being saved wanted that I guess. All I'm saying is it's dark enough that Myrelle pretty much forces the Warder she's saving to have sex with her to save them. It would be even darker if she involved other Warders in it, and I don't think that was seriously suggested by the show. 

I see what you mean, and I really hope they don't go there. I just felt it was rather being pushed down our throats in the last couple of episodes which made me feel like it may come back later. 

 

I also wondered if they may try to make polyamorous relationships more normal in the scheme of the WoT universe to deal with the potential challenge and trickiness of Rand's relationship. Showing another main character engaging in one might help them do that.