Perrin and Laila

[Chivalry]

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I used to be that way.  Used to not matter how bad it was - I needed to complete it.  Be it a book, show, movie, or whatever.  But there is so much out there that I'll never get to already so I stopped wasting time on stuff that didn't do it for me.  There is too much good out there to discover.

 

The only exception I can think of was 'The Office'.  Heard the hype, watched the first 3 episodes to give it a 'fair' shot.  And gave up.  Many years later went back and it is one of my favorite shows - been through the entire series twice.  So guess I can miss some gems in the rough, but I have more time to discover as well.  You'll never see/read it all...

It took me some time to get used to The Office, and that was after it had already been out for years. I'm glad I was patient with that one. 

[DojoToad]

9 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I did. I think I quit that series after 3 books.

Me too. Made it through two and quit midway through the third. 

[Andra]

Trying to get back on topic ...

 

On 1/14/2022 at 5:02 PM, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Yep.  Just re-watched episode 1.  Certainly looks like she was about to wallop Perrin from behind.

On 1/14/2022 at 5:02 PM, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rafe come out and say that Laila wasn't a darkfriend? 

 

I found it: 

https://www.cbr.com/the-wheel-of-time-showrunner-debunks-laila-darkfriend-fan-theory/

 

I'm torn. On the one hand, the show seems to totally set up that Laila is a darkfriend. But I could also believe that Rafe literally did it on accident haha 

Having just re-watched the episode, I don't see the whole "she was about to kill him" bit.

What I got from it was simply that they had each just been fighting their own trollocs, and she was just preparing to defend herself if Perrin lost.

 

Because he was pretty occupied himself, he didn't realize she had already won.  So when he hears something moving behind him, he spins around without thinking.

 

She's not a darkfriend who's going to kill him, and he didn't detect something about her with his wolf senses.  Nor did he lose control of his "inner rage."  It was just an accident.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Andra

[DaddyFinn]

2 hours ago, Andra said:

She's not a darkfriend who's going to kill him, and he didn't detect something about her with his wolf senses.  Nor did he lose control of his "inner rage."  It was just an accident.

There's still the wolfish growl right before he spins around and hits her

[VooDooNut]

The wolf eating her in the dream is what really sold me on Laila being a dark friend.

Edited January 26, 2022 by VooDooNut

[Chivalry]

The idea that Perrin killed Laila by accident, but she deserved it because she was a Dark Friend, really troubles me. It reminds me very much of the scene in TDR where Rand kills the Dark Friend merchant and all her soldiers preemptively. This action seems to cause him regret in the future (but only in regards to the woman), but we're led to believe it was justified because she was evil.

 

The notion of Pre-crime just doesn't sit well with me.

[DaddyFinn]

10 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

The idea that Perrin killed Laila by accident, but she deserved it because she was a Dark Friend, really troubles me. It reminds me very much of the scene in TDR where Rand kills the Dark Friend merchant and all her soldiers preemptively. This action seems to cause him regret in the future (but only in regards to the woman), but we're led to believe it was justified because she was evil.

 

The notion of Pre-crime just doesn't sit well with me.

I don't think it makes it any more "right" if she was a darkfriend. She was still his wife and he loved her.

[Chivalry]

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I don't think it makes it any more "right" if she was a darkfriend. She was still his wife and he loved her.

 

I agree.

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, Chivalry said:

 

I agree.

It wouldn't be simple for Perrin to just forget what kind of person Laila was. I would probably ask "WHY?" What made her turn to dark?

[TheSmurf]

To Perrin, it was his Wife he accidentally killed. Regardless if he found out later she was a darkfriend.

 

And it's been stated she wasn't, so yeah ??‍♂️

[Andra]

17 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

There's still the wolfish growl right before he spins around and hits her

That's just a noise he makes because he's fighting.  A noise we never hear him make again until Valda, because he never fights again.  It's true that by then he's developing his wolf nature, but it hadn't happened yet by Ep.1.

 

There's no indication it has anything to do with the ability to smell Shadowspawn that he develops later in the story.

 

 

16 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

The wolf eating her in the dream is what really sold me on Laila being a dark friend.

But that was a "Ba'alzamon dream."  So it almost had to be a lie.

[VooDooNut]

1 minute ago, Andra said:

But that was a "Ba'alzamon dream."  So it almost had to be a lie.

I can definitely understand that rational. But even in the early  books the wolves have a keener sense of evil in Perrin's dreams than he does. It seems out of character for the wolves to be controlled by Ba'alzamon. Am I forgetting a scene in the books where the wolves do Ba'alzamon's bidding?

[Andra]

1 minute ago, VooDooNut said:

I can definitely understand that rational. But even in the early  books the wolves have a keener sense of evil in Perrin's dreams than he does. It seems out of character for the wolves to be controlled by Ba'alzamon. Am I forgetting a scene in the books where the wolves do Ba'alzamon's bidding?

It's not that the wolves are doing his bidding.

It's that Ba'alzamon is lying to him about what's going on.

 

It's true that in the books we see the wolves (Hopper, specifically) acting to protect Perrin from Forsaken in the Dream.  But there's nothing to say that before Perrin met the wolves, Ba'alzamon wouldn't have inserted fake wolves into one of his deceptive dreams.  Specifically to make him believe something false.

 

It's just the kind of thing he would have done.  Either to make him think Laila was a darkfriend when she wasn't, or more likely to make him think wolves are evil.

 

We know from the books that a wolf would never have eaten a human body, so we already know from that fact that the dream is a lie.  Kill a human?  Absolutely.  Eat one?  Not at all.

[VooDooNut]

8 minutes ago, Andra said:

It's not that the wolves are doing his bidding.

It's that Ba'alzamon is lying to him about what's going on.

 

It's true that in the books we see the wolves (Hopper, specifically) acting to protect Perrin from Forsaken in the Dream.  But there's nothing to say that before Perrin met the wolves, Ba'alzamon wouldn't have inserted fake wolves into one of his deceptive dreams.  Specifically to make him believe something false.

 

It's just the kind of thing he would have done.  Either to make him think Laila was a darkfriend when she wasn't, or more likely to make him think wolves are evil.

 

We know from the books that a wolf would never have eaten a human body, so we already know from that fact that the dream is a lie.  Kill a human?  Absolutely.  Eat one?  Not at all.

Yep, I hear you. Until this is revisited in future seasons I still don't think there's enough evidence to sway me either way completely, but I appreciate your insight.

Edited January 26, 2022 by VooDooNut
typo

[Andra]

9 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

Yep, I hear you. Until this is revisited in future seasons I still don't think there's enough evidence to sway me either way completely, but I appreciate your insight.

Unfortunately, far too much of this show does exactly that.

Make you wait until something is revisited later to clear up an issue that it created in the first place.

[VooDooNut]

Just now, Andra said:

Unfortunately, far too much of this show does exactly that.

Make you wait until something is revisited later to clear up an issue that it created in the first place.

I like that technique. To each their own though.

[Andra]

3 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

I like that technique. To each their own though.

The problem is that there's a fine line between keeping people excited for future answers and simply never telling the story.

We know that the books gave enough answers as they went to keep people involved long enough to hear other answers later.  At this point, we don't know which side of that line the show comes down on.

 

I'm hopeful that it's on one side.  I'm apprehensive that it's on the other.

 

Getting some of those big questions answered early in season 2 will play to the hope.  Not getting them will play to the apprehension.

[nsmallw]

On 1/25/2022 at 11:05 PM, VooDooNut said:

The wolf eating her in the dream is what really sold me on Laila being a dark friend.

What episode was that dream in ?

 

I ask because if it was in a episode BEFORE Rafe explicitly denied that Laila was a DF then it could be that

the plan WAS to make her a Darkfriend but the huge outcry over the "fridging"  thing,

made him have to he  backtrack that idea to appease the viewers.

[VooDooNut]

5 hours ago, nsmallw said:

What episode was that dream in ?

 

I ask because if it was in a episode BEFORE Rafe explicitly denied that Laila was a DF then it could be that

the plan WAS to make her a Darkfriend but the huge outcry over the "fridging"  thing,

made him have to he  backtrack that idea to appease the viewers.

Episode 4, 16:00 minutes mark is where the scene begins.

 

I'm not familiar with Rafe's quote regarding Laila. I'd never heard the word "fridging" prior to when I started engaging in conversations on this forum. I still think she's a friend of the dark.

[Andra]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:20 AM, nsmallw said:

What episode was that dream in ?

 

I ask because if it was in a episode BEFORE Rafe explicitly denied that Laila was a DF then it could be that

the plan WAS to make her a Darkfriend but the huge outcry over the "fridging"  thing,

made him have to he  backtrack that idea to appease the viewers.

 

On 2/4/2022 at 12:51 PM, VooDooNut said:

Episode 4, 16:00 minutes mark is where the scene begins.

 

I'm not familiar with Rafe's quote regarding Laila. I'd never heard the word "fridging" prior to when I started engaging in conversations on this forum. I still think she's a friend of the dark.

The denial from Rafe comes from a podcast interview he gave right after the three-episode premiere, and before episode 4 dropped.  The articles I saw quoting the podcast were published sometime during that week.

The Wheel of Time Showrunner Debunks Laila Fan Theory | CBR

Ringer-Verse podcast interview

 

Of course, this all means that the dream scene had been filmed long before he said anything about her.  But the interview was early enough that I don't think he'd heard much outcry by then.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Andra

[DavyDrones]

On 11/19/2021 at 11:40 PM, DojoToad said:

What do you all think about the interactions between Perrin and Laila?

 

When he visited her in the smithy, she was very upset and he tried to comfort her.  The thing that popped into my head was that she couldn't conceive or maybe had a miscarriage.

 

Thoughts?

She was maybe pregnant.It was maybe someone else's child. Oxxx and the most important thing. She is none existent!

[jade1falcon]

Having read the series it's not possible for me to even accept this made up by the screen writers BS. I can't accept Perrin being married. Or killing a wife he never had. He never even had a beard. And what happened to Master Luhan? They start the tv series with lies they're going to have to keep on lying about and make even bigger lies about for the rest of the show. Are they going to write Faile Bashere, Perrins future wife, right out of the whole thing? Faile is a huge part of the series. 

 

[WhiteVeils]

1) Not lies.  Adaptation.

2) Of course they can have Faile  in future seasons.  I suspect they will. 

[DojoToad]

On 4/18/2022 at 10:11 AM, WhiteVeils said:

1) Not lies.  Adaptation.

2) Of course they can have Faile  in future seasons.  I suspect they will. 

People are very hot or cold on Faile.  I suspect Rafe will change things up here:

• Faile - trans?
• Maybe change the dynamic with the White Cloaks - Perrin and Galad?
• Perrin and Elyas?

 

Adding clarifying info - 3 bullet points above are meant as alternate love interests for Perrin.  Pure speculation.

Edited April 21, 2022 by DojoToad

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, DojoToad said:

People are very hot or cold on Faile.  I suspect Rafe will change things up here:

• Faile - trans?
• Maybe change the dynamic with the White Cloaks - Perrin and Galad?
• Perrin and Elyas?

I'd speculate bullet point 2 is the closest possibility. (I'm Assuming bullet 3 = Perrin shipping Elyas which I don't think is going to happen)

From a story telling perspective, Faile's introduction is great for introducing exposition of what the "hunters of the horn" are, and is a great tie in for Perrin to have already been involved with finding the horn, knowing what it looks like and who has it, and keeping it secret from this girl that just keeps following him around.

Semi-related, I Faile reminds me of "Jackie" from "That 70s show".

 

IF S2 incorporates Book 2 & 3, I'd hazard a guess that they'd introduce "Faile" in the latter half of Season 2, if not the season finale, or the start of Season 3.