How did the show hold up for you?

[Weird_Old_Lady]

20 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I’m interested to see where WoT’s numbers are around the first of the year once all the episodes are out and people binge during winter break. 

This exactly. I know quite a few who like to binge watch these kinds of things. My daughter and her boyfriend plan to do just that and are always telling me to shut the heck up when I begin raving. The only thing I am allowed to verbally obsess over is my love for the actors, particularly Zoë's expressive, soul-searing eyes (maybe that's what Logain was reacting to, just sayin). I am not allowed to sing Thom's song even!!! This is not easy for me. I'm old. I need support.

[AdamA]

I'm curious how IMDB computes its interest ratings. It currently has Wheel of Time as the #1 most popular title, with Arcane at #2. They're almost identical in # of fan ratings on Rotten Tomatoes. Yet Arcane has almost double the IMDB ratings. That might just be because of Netflix's release all at once strategy. IMDB counts show ratings, season ratings, and episode ratings. Arcane has released 9 episodes to Wheel of Time's 4, so there is more to rate.

 

I still don't expect it to get anywhere close to The Witcher, at least not in the first season. It's at 1/10th the Rotten Tomatoes ratings right now, and looking at Google Trends comparison of search interest when each first debuted and peaked, "witcher" as a word is more than double the peak of "wheel of time" as a phrase. I think that just reflects Netflix having bigger audiences in general than Prime Video right now.

[Skipp]

Both The Witcher and Arcane had the benefit of having large, young built in audience's just from having recent popular video games.  Despite the fact that both shows don't share a whole lot with their respective games they were much more in the cultural zeitgeist than WoT has ever really been.

[ThroneofTime]

Pretty good so far and I’m only 3 episodes in. I’m trying to take it slow so I can have enough to watch at once and not have to wait but I’m already caught up and don’t really want to wait any more. Watching a show week by week kinda messes with my expectations a tad too much. Tangent over but, I honestly am enjoying it more than some of the Marvel tv I’ve watched this year. It’s a solid 7/10. Can’t beat Invincible but the coming episodes can change my mind.  

Edited December 2, 2021 by ThroneofTime

[Daenelia]

@Skipp exactly what I thought: different audience that pre-existed. Mind you, The Witcher because of games, not the books obviously. (And is Arane any good? I did not get wooah-vibes from the trailer :S )

 

@ThroneofTime Oh the wait is excruciating and I dont like binging. So, I just take that to mean I really enjoy it. And that I should make time to re-watch. I really should. I saw in another thread that people find a lot of things on watching the 2nd or 3rd time...

[Skipp]

@Daenelia

 

The show is surprisingly fantastic.  The story and characters are very engaging. You could remove the League of Legends elements and it would stand on it's own.  The show is split into 3 3 episode arcs.  Give the first arc a try and I think you will enjoy it.

[ThroneofTime]

6 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

@ThroneofTime Oh the wait is excruciating and I dont like binging. So, I just take that to mean I really enjoy it. And that I should make time to re-watch. I really should. I saw in another thread that people find a lot of things on watching the 2nd or 3rd time..

I waffle back and forth on whether I like to binge or not. The wait for shows is excruciating but I also don’t want to be spoiled but I enjoy reading the shows chats afterwards then cry when I can’t participate. I’m honestly a mess. 

[Lets_Go_Sanderson]

I voted “Dislike It” mainly as a protest vote in the vain hope that maybe, just maybe, the Amazon Team will actually care what the fans think an might…might…do a course correction, or at the very least, maybe prevent them from doing something worse down the line.

 

If we don’t stand up now and voice our discontent, who knows what they will do further down the road.

 

I don’t agree with the school of thought that says the purpose of an adaptation of a book series is to keep the fans who have read the books guessing and trying to surprise them, but I believe the purpose is to do their best bring to life the story and characters as they are written.

 

It is shear arrogance and condescension to believe that they can write a better story than the original author.

 

I don’t mind if they elevate one aspect of the story at the expense of another aspect of the story as long as it is clear that intention is to honor the source material – even if I disagree with the decision, I will still accept it (LoTR Arwen/Aragorn romance elevated at expense of Tom Bombadil), but they can't use the excuse of "not enough time."  If they make that choice, they must own up to the fact that they made that choice.

Examples:

   * Diversifying the cast – We know better

   * Aging up the characters – We know better

   * Transgendering souls – We know better

   * Matt is a thief - We know better

   * Abel Cauthon is a bum and Natti is a drunk – We know better

   * Perrin is married and kills his wife – We know better

   * We need to introduce Alanna, Liandrin, Logain, et al in the first season – We know better

 

There is a TV Show called “The Wheel of Time” that has a character named “Mat Cauthon,” but that is NOT Mat Cauthon.  It is not too late to fix it.  Maybe that is what the recast is about, but if the Amazon Team thinks everything is going great, I am afraid of what they will do next.

 

Fingers crossed that they will see the Light, but not holding my breath.

 

 

[Scarloc99]

4 hours ago, Skipp said:

Both The Witcher and Arcane had the benefit of having large, young built in audience's just from having recent popular video games.  Despite the fact that both shows don't share a whole lot with their respective games they were much more in the cultural zeitgeist than WoT has ever really been.

This is the biggest thing, despite the high number of book sales (and in terms of other fantasy series it isn't that impressive), the younger generation are unlikely to have heard of it, I know a lot of fantasy readers who have never read it because of how long it was. Witcher will draw in more initial viewers because of the Game, which has then led people to the books. 

I just feel WOT might miss what Amazon is hoping for, that massive audience that GOT got, or massive book sales. 

[Gothic Flame]

9 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I’m interested to see where WoT’s numbers are around the first of the year once all the episodes are out and people binge during winter break. 

The first part..ok.

The 2nd part...there are a lot of people already on "winter" break...holding over from "summer" break.

[qlorin]

I am very suprised how much people liked it.

I love the books and this tv show betrayes the soul of the books. "Character Growth" ascpect of the books is gone (at least for Mat Perrin and Nynave). "Duality" aspect of the books is gone (no Saidin/Saidar , Gender changing souls etc). "Smart Moraine" gone (she doesnt even remember Dragon must be a certain age). "Smart dark side" gone. (Myrddrall is just another monster even Baal'zamon is firery eyed dream monster now no talking just scare people with sudden movements)

Most of the show dumb down. We need to explore the white cloaks if you show burning on the stake no need for it. We need to see change in Mat's character ourselves dont give us some black vomit thing. We can figure out Lan and Moraine relationship dynamic with one scene. They gave 2 already.

I will not get into details because I am getting angry about it when I think.

In this point I am hoping for a big change in writing or a cancelation.

Edit:Episode Points (all the episodes suffers from dumbing down, stupid dark side etc.)
ep1      2/10
-Teribble phasing...
-Too much "we got magic and action in this show please watch us"...
-Worst line in the show so far "there is a rumor of 4 ta'veren in two rivers"... What happaned and there is a rumor of ta'veren and how do you know 4 think about it...

ep2      3/10
-Biggest plot hole so far just one question "Are you an Aes Sedai?" and show ends here...

ep3    3/10
-Too much "we needs book readers to support us so put a lot of stuff refering later books"...
-THOM MERRILIN!!!!...

ep4    3/10
-Thom is gone... What an impact on our characters they lost their 24 hour friend :)...
-Arragont ,old ,knowlageble and royal Aes Sedai becames less they are just magical woman now...

-ep5   2/10
-Cartoonish Whitecloaks... They had an ideology in the books... Cartoonish reaction to Perrin... He even drops the knife out of fear... No zealotory just evil...
-Worst editing so far Nyneave... She is in White tower at a scene. 3 seconds later she is with the boys...
-Worst character introduction so far Loial...  It feels vey rushed in an episode mostly about a made up side characters death...

Edited December 3, 2021 by qlorin

[Brotag]

Why would they cut out Caemlyn as the first meeting point. Do not mistake my opening for dislike, I’m elated about the show coming out at all. Even if the entire cast was given 4-5 years from their book counterparts. 2 characters that never existed were put in just to die, and they changed the fundamentals of shielding… I am dragging on.

 

Look caemlyn is their first meeting place, it introduces rand to basic politics, sets up a love interest and is the first time we see logain in the books. Changing that bodes ill for the series. Despite that I enjoyed seeing Mathais’s background which was not clearly stated in the books.

 

In summation I am disappointed that the first season of WOT is shaping up to be another season 8 GOT. The source material is there and the fans want to see the story brought to life not a Shakespeare on the beach remake. 3/10 desperately hoping for improvement. 

 

 

[Durinax]

So far I am more watching it to hope that it improves. Fortunately because it is going so far afield from the books it seems to be getting more enjoyable on first watch. If I do any thinking on it though it becomes much worse. This is mostly because I cannot square the changes they made to the geography, magic rules, and just why they made such changes. Many seem to be almost haphazardly made while they could have more faithfully followed the book (particularly in the first few episodes) and had a much more solid product.

 

Take the opening on ep 1 with Liandrin and Co. It is fairly long and only provides world building in that Aes Sedai hunt male channellers for sport. I think the LTT prologue could have been done in the same time and actually done some world building.

 

They have a lot of work to do to get me to say it is a great series. That said I am probably going to rewatch this weekend to make sure I didn't miss a ton of stuff, but overall unimpressed (especially when they butchered my favourite scene which is the story of manetheren).

[fra85uk]

For me ep5 has been a big improvement.

I hope it can get better now

[Brotag]

5 hours ago, Durinax said:

So far I am more watching it to hope that it improves. Fortunately because it is going so far afield from the books it seems to be getting more enjoyable on first watch. If I do any thinking on it though it becomes much worse. This is mostly because I cannot square the changes they made to the geography, magic rules, and just why they made such changes. Many seem to be almost haphazardly made while they could have more faithfully followed the book (particularly in the first few episodes) and had a much more solid product.

 

Take the opening on ep 1 with Liandrin and Co. It is fairly long and only provides world building in that Aes Sedai hunt male channellers for sport. I think the LTT prologue could have been done in the same time and actually done some world building.

 

They have a lot of work to do to get me to say it is a great series. That said I am probably going to rewatch this weekend to make sure I didn't miss a ton of stuff, but overall unimpressed (especially when they butchered my favourite scene which is the story of manetheren).

Yes! I was hoping for a Lews Therin intro too. Instead we got a scene that was inaccurate to the books and their own story(the capture of Logain should have been in the plains of Ghealdan in the books and should have been in Logain’s war camp by the shows own account). Not to mention the out and out write off of the initial relationship that went from a passionate night to, I just don’t feel that way between Rand and Egwene. Smh they had a full year of additional time to figure this stuff out and we can tell they wasted it.

[Deathstalker1973]

Q3So previously I said I won't watch it but that left a bad taste in my mouth "especially when my wife reminded me that I hated game of thrones when it first came out" so I watched until the middle of episode 3 and had to turn it off. This feels like the chapter in The Great Hunt- From stone to stone- its kinda like the wheel of time but with no flavor or chemistry. To those who enjoy it "Peace favor your sword" enjoy, not here to rain on anyone's parade just very disappointed

[ArrylT]

I mentioned this either earlier here or on a different thread - but the likely only way that another adaptation of WOT comes around is if this one is successful & drives the franchise forward.

 

The longer this series lasts, the more fans it will bring to the Wheel of Time Franchise.  The more fans, the more the financial appeal of doing another adaptation comes to be likely.   GOT got lots of negative pushback on their last seasons but on the whole the majority of the fantasy community enjoyed the show and now they're going to get more GOT.  

 

Why do you think DC & Marvel movies keep getting made?  Because the franchise is constantly growing - and with it the merchandise & financial reasons to keep doing so.

 

Same with Star Wars / Star Trek.   Doctor Who.

 

Franchises that end on positive notes get fans keeping the nostalgia alive.  Which leads to new adaptations, new stories and so forth.

 

Franchises that have fans actively trying to hate on or ruin it cause the franchise die.   

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with disliking the show, having a lot of negative criticism of the show or disappointment in how certain aspects are portrayed.   That is not what I am talking about - I'm only talking about people who do nothing to solve problems and go out of their way to send hate to the show and/or its fans.

 

Don't be like this darkfriend

 

 

Thankfully it seems to me that the majority of people are having good reactions to and love becoming a part of the WOT community.     The amount of positive interaction I've seen on Twitter & Youtube is very heartening, and I think exactly what Robert Jordan would have wanted.   And lots of these fans will then turn to the books. 

 

So I am pretty appreciative of most of the people here on DM who dislike WOT the show since it does not seem like many of them have any desire to ruin it for others - simply want an adaptation that they themselves can enjoy.

 

And like I said - that can come provided this franchise continues to grow - and that simply means accepting and allowing this adaptation to run its course.   But Chris there is unfortunately the deluded one if he thinks killing the show after S2 will allow for a reboot in 15 years when it took 30 years to get this made.  It took 20 years to get LOTR made after the animated ones and that franchise is the granddaddy of all fantasy franchises.  It took 30 years to get Hobbit after the animated hobbit.  

 

We're simply not going to get another adaptation if this one gets sabotaged.   

 

Those kinds of people have a lot more in common with either White Cloaks or Forsaken than they realize (since both put either personal desire or their own agenda over the greater good).

[Vimak_the_Great]

I just finished ep5 and I selected dislike for the show. I really want to like it because this is one of, if not my favorite, book series.
 

Overall I like the cast and the acting, but my issue with it is how much they’ve deviated from the book storyline and episode 5 only made that worse. I understand condensing parts of it for TV, but introducing a new character who gets a good chunk of screen time while ignoring more important elements from the book - e.g., Rand meeting Elayne;  Min; more time on developing the 2 rivers; more about shadar logoth; etc. - makes me worry that the writers for the show are an awful fit. 
 

My only glimmer of hope is that it seems to be popular enough with people who haven’t read the books that maybe it will get additional seasons with more budget and episodes. And if it does that, just maybe they’ll be able to put something together that’s approaching the quality of early GoT seasons as an adaptation of a fantasy series. 

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, ArrylT said:

I mentioned this either earlier here or on a different thread - but the likely only way that another adaptation of WOT comes around is if this one is successful & drives the franchise forward.

No. That's not how that works.

Did lotr die the death it deserved in the 70s? 

No.

Someone came along later and did a far better and succesful job. 

 

[enigmoxical]

When in doubt of exactly what to say, one can always rely on lyrics from an old song:

 

Look what they've done to my song, ma
Look what they've done to my song, ma
Well, they tied it up in a plastic bag
Turned it upside down, ma
Look what they've done to my song

 

Enough said.....

[Gothic Flame]

*shrugs*

Improvement doesn't happen if no one shows disapproval.

 

 

[JenniferL]

55 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

No. That's not how that works.

Did lotr die the death it deserved in the 70s? 

No.

Someone came along later and did a far better and succesful job. 

 

 

Honestly, I’m enjoying the show, but I agree with this. “You better say you like this or at least stay quiet so we can get a better version when they inevitably reboot it twenty years from now” is a nonsensical argument. There’s plenty of things that were highly praised and aren’t being rebooted. It’s completely fine to dislike the adaptation as long as you aren’t being a jackass to the people who do like it. 

[ArrylT]

1 hour ago, Gothic Flame said:

No. That's not how that works.

Did lotr die the death it deserved in the 70s? 

No.

Someone came along later and did a far better and succesful job. 

 

 

Yes 22 years later on a fantasy franchise that has sold 150+ million copies not including merchandise.  And that specific film despite bad critic (not fan) reviews still ended up making a profit, get nominated for awards and was partially doomed by poor marketing & executive decisions.   The film itself had an influence on the next adaptation (which as we know did not get 100% fan approval).    But at no point was LOTR under attack from its own fans.   

 

Nor was it killed off mid-production.

Edited December 4, 2021 by ArrylT

[Gothic Flame]

24 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

 

Honestly, I’m enjoying the show, but I agree with this. “You better say you like this or at least stay quiet so we can get a better version when they inevitably reboot it twenty years from now” is a nonsensical argument. There’s plenty of things that were highly praised and aren’t being rebooted. It’s completely fine to dislike the adaptation as long as you aren’t being a jackass to the people who do like it. 

Yes.

Being told to "eat this or you won't get it again anytime soon" does phrase things better. Especially if I have other uses for my time.

And to clarify...I really don't want to eat something I don't like at all.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Gothic Flame

[ArrylT]

25 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

 

Honestly, I’m enjoying the show, but I agree with this. “You better say you like this or at least stay quiet so we can get a better version when they inevitably reboot it twenty years from now” is a nonsensical argument. There’s plenty of things that were highly praised and aren’t being rebooted. It’s completely fine to dislike the adaptation as long as you aren’t being a jackass to the people who do like it. 

 

That is exactly what I am saying.  I think a lot of what I said got misunderstood or misinterpreted for the part where I was talking about the very small (but people who by the noise they make punch above their weight - just like in politics) portion of people actively doing just that - not the majority of people with honest negative critical feedback.