How did the show hold up for you?

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

19 minutes ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Read this in a review of The Witcher Season 2 today and it's really making me with WoT had been adapted by literally anyone but the suits at Amazon. 

I've never read/played The Witcher but, IMHO, the first season was absolute garbage, from a television perspective. I'm hoping for a serious uptick in quality for season 2 (which reviews seem to suggest) because there were parts of season 1 of The Witcher that showed small bit of potential but let's not pretend like it was amazing television.

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

53 minutes ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

I'm hoping for a serious uptick in quality for season 2 (which reviews seem to suggest) because there were parts of season 1 of The Witcher that showed small bit of potential but let's not pretend like it was amazing television.

Yeah, I saw a few episodes and thought they were pretty meh. My only point was that most everything I've read about Netflix seems to suggest that they give their creative teams a lot of creative control.  

 

Rafe's comments about Amazon (he talks about making the show like laying over a body while arrows rain down on his back) contribute to plenty of other stuff I've heard about the very corporatized, tightly controlled "creative" process over at Amazon Studios. 

 

Regardless of what you think of the show, I think we can all agree that it would have been better if made in an environment where there wasn't quite as much executive meddling for Rafe to navigate. 

[Ralph]

1 minute ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Yeah, I saw a few episodes and thought they were pretty meh. My only point was that most everything I've read about Netflix seems to suggest that they give their creative teams a lot of creative control.  

 

Rafe's comments about Amazon (he talks about making the show like laying over a body while arrows rain down on his back) contribute to plenty of other stuff I've heard about the very corporatized, tightly controlled "creative" process over at Amazon Studios. 

 

Regardless of what you think of the show, I think we can all agree that it would have been better if made in an environment where there wasn't quite as much executive meddling for Rafe to navigate. 

 

He mentioned receiving over a thousand notes about episode 1!!

 

But I can't imagine we will all agree that it would have been better if it was more controlled by Rafe, considering some contributors' opinions of him? ??

 

 

[JeffTheWoodlandElf]

5 minutes ago, Ralph said:

But I can't imagine we will all agree that it would have been better if it was more controlled by Rafe, considering some contributors' opinions of him? ??

Yeah, I'm one of those who isn't a huge fan of Rafe's vision. However, I do think that allowing him to craft a more cohesive version of that vision would have been to the show's benefit, and I would have certainly preferred that show over the one we have now. 

 

Maybe it's just because I'm an (aspiring) creative myself, but I can't help but sympathize for Rafe in this regard and wish that he had been given more freedom to at least go all the way with what he wanted to do. At least then those who enjoy the show as it is might have enjoyed it even more. 

[TheDreadReader]

1 hour ago, thievingsackofpotatoes said:

I've never read/played The Witcher but, IMHO, the first season was absolute garbage, from a television perspective. I'm hoping for a serious uptick in quality for season 2 (which reviews seem to suggest) because there were parts of season 1 of The Witcher that showed small bit of potential but let's not pretend like it was amazing television.

 

I was really frustrated by the Witcher's first season on the first watch.  I went back and rewatched it a second time and it improved dramatically for me.   I also had never played the games or read any of the books.

 

But, Witcher seems to be telling a much smaller story than WOT is trying to do.  It could easily have turned into an old school monster of the week show.

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

2 hours ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

Yeah, I saw a few episodes and thought they were pretty meh. My only point was that most everything I've read about Netflix seems to suggest that they give their creative teams a lot of creative control.  

 

Rafe's comments about Amazon (he talks about making the show like laying over a body while arrows rain down on his back) contribute to plenty of other stuff I've heard about the very corporatized, tightly controlled "creative" process over at Amazon Studios. 

 

Regardless of what you think of the show, I think we can all agree that it would have been better if made in an environment where there wasn't quite as much executive meddling for Rafe to navigate. 

Hadn’t read anything about Amazon‘s iron grip. If that’s true then, yeah, totally agree he should have gotten more creative license. Massive interference can be pretty troubling. We all know how Star Wars has turned out.

[thievingsackofpotatoes]

2 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I was really frustrated by the Witcher's first season on the first watch.  I went back and rewatched it a second time and it improved dramatically for me.   I also had never played the games or read any of the books.

 

But, Witcher seems to be telling a much smaller story than WOT is trying to do.  It could easily have turned into an old school monster of the week show.

I’ll give it another watch. Probably necessary to refresh for season 2 anyway!

[Variant]

Although I've enjoyed the show I can't really say the adaptation is all that well done.

 

If I hadn't read the books I think I would be completely lost.  The focus and plot line decisions make the story seem rushed and disjointed.  They spend what seems like a line or two of dialog to explain the ways and why Loial went along with them or, even what the heck he is, where as in the books Jordan used Loial to explain the ways, Ta' Veren ect.  So, basically anything that would give the audience depth of understanding of what is going on seems rushed bullet point material at best.

 

Then, each episode, I get a long additional story to get to know the characters in ways that never occurred to me.  Fights/conflict they never had.   It's a weird way to prioritize limited resources when telling a sprawling epic.

[ArrylT]

On 12/14/2021 at 5:20 PM, ArrylT said:

There is a poll going on WoTShow reddit - I have included the current results if you're not on reddit - so far over 3000 votes (poll will be active for 3 days)

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/comments/rg2lvu/do_you_like_the_show_book_reader_vs_non_book/?signup_survey=true

 

 

1.8k

60.9%

Book reader - I like the show!

 

655

21.7%

Book reader - I like the show just enough.

 

298

9.9%

Book reader - I don't like the show.

 

166

5.5%

Non book reader - I like the show!

 

39

1.3%

Non book reader - I like the show just enough

.

21

0.7%

Non book reader - I don't like the show.

 

Poll has now closed - so here are full results

 

 

4.0k votes

 

2.3k

58.2%

Book reader - I like the show!

 

880

22.1%

Book reader - I like the show just enough

.

442

11.1%

Book reader - I don't like the show.

 

242

6.1%

Non book reader - I like the show!

 

67

1.7%

Non book reader - I like the show just enough.

 

32

0.8%

Non book reader - I don't like the show.

[HeronBeak]

I am in the like category. But I had to compartmentalize my feelings and take it as something different than the books. Accept the changes if you will.

 

The trailer put me off for days, when I saw Egwene kissing Rand. I was like, nope, I am out. But after some deliberation I gave it a chance. I won't say that I was amazed but given the fact that we are never getting a perfect rendition of what we have imagined, it's decent. I like the characters, they come close to their book counterparts. They of course have to cut things, maybe they cut too much, I ain't judging on that. What we consider important, or what we want to see isn't always doable or the best choice. 

 

So I take the show as it is, accept the changes since I have no say over them anyways and will keep looking forward to some of my favorite upcoming moments. So far, I would say it's between a 6 and a 7 for me.

 

And I wouldn't prefer them not doing it. More glory and fame to the book series can give it a new spark and bring more fans to it. And I am all for that. Maybe even get a heron engraved sword from Amazon ?

[Gothic Flame]

23 minutes ago, HeronBeak said:

Maybe even get a heron engraved sword from Amazon

I believe "Museum Replicas" has the one Jordan approved of.

Just sayin'

[Chivalry]

I'm really looking forward to the Season Finale. That Blood Snow cold open was a genuine "wow" moment that, I believe, matches some of the great moments from the GOT series. There are plenty of these types of moments in the books, hopefully we get to see them on screen.

[Spiritweaver1]

Well post E7 my rating is still like but the trend is actually pointing up instead of down for the following reasons:

 

The blood snow  bits were awesome and a great example of visually telling a story which sets up expectations of badass.  It would have been more believable if Shaiel's spear sisters had done most of the fighting because a woman who would give birth to as developed a  baby as she did isn't gonna be skipping around like a ballerina while in labor trust me.  Yet I felt it captured my dancing the spears head canon perfectly.

 

Somehow for reasons I can't really articulate I came away, for the first time, with a feeling that, maybe, I should trust Rafe and his elves to tell their story well.   Hope for the future is a powerful thing..

 

Anyway I am staying away from the negatives which I listed in my comments on the episode.  The show is still very uneven and it walks a knife edge but I wanna believe the show teams coming together and are critically watching their own work.  Hopefully the team will be getting less backseat driving from the Amazon peddlers and IT hobbits.   If I was gonna trust anybody to make input it would be the IT hobbits though.   S1 as a whole will be the body of work we need to judge.  We are looking at chapters.  Any book fan will tell you some of RJ's chapters are way better than others.  

[divica]

On 12/16/2021 at 8:59 PM, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

"It seems like the streamer’s biggest mandate with fantasy adaptations is to make them faithful to die-hard fans. Anyone else who goes along for the ride is a welcome bonus." 

 

Read this in a review of The Witcher Season 2 today and it's really making me with WoT had been adapted by literally anyone but the suits at Amazon. 

 

Say what you like about the adaptation, but it was certainly made with a wider audience in mind first and then any book fans who weren't put off by the changes were invited to come along if they wished. 

 

Netflix's shows aren't always good or satisfactory for their fanbases (Hello, Cowboy Bebop) but it seems like they give their creatives a lot more control over there. 

I don't think we can compare the adaptation process of the witcher  and wot. The witcher fanbase comes mostly from the games and several things about the books are mediocre at best (

Spoiler

no one would create a show with a war spanning the entire story because a father wants to impregnate his daughter. However, when he finally captures his daughter as she cries he decides to leave her with geralt and ends the war...)

On the other hand the wot has fans because of the books that in terms of worldbuilding are very good.

 

So messing with the book story of the witcher was garateed from the beguining. On the other hand, messing with the story of wot can screw with what makes the books atractive to the audience.

 

Seeing the show it is more than obvious that it really lacks a strong male main character focus.  However the creators did everything in their power to avoid scenes about the development of male characters and gave too much focus to moiraine, egweene and nym. I would even risk that lan is a better established charated than rand in the tv show and this makes no sense!

[kent1963]

The more I watch the less I like, it's just not the same story not well thought out I Don't think RJ would have approved of this, sorry but it's pretty much garbage.

[Elder_Haman]

12 minutes ago, kent1963 said:

The more I watch the less I like, it's just not the same story not well thought out I Don't think RJ would have approved of this, sorry but it's pretty much garbage.

I'm going to go ahead and take Harriet's word for what RJ would or would not approved of. Her statements on the show have been positive. But I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the series.

[king of nowhere]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:59 PM, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

"It seems like the streamer’s biggest mandate with fantasy adaptations is to make them faithful to die-hard fans. Anyone else who goes along for the ride is a welcome bonus." 

 

Read this in a review of The Witcher Season 2 today and it's really making me with WoT had been adapted by literally anyone but the suits at Amazon. 

 

and you really belive that?

did you actually watch the witcher? or read the books?

 

because i liked the witcher show, but it's even less faithful than the wot show. if they are claiming otherwise, they either mean faithful in spirit - and it is faithful in spirit, just like wot is faithful in spirit - or they are damn liars.

[kent1963]

6 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I'm going to go ahead and take Harriet's word for what RJ would or would not approved of. Her statements on the show have been positive. But I'm sorry you aren't enjoying the series.

You have watched the show and read the books? I'm going to assume so. I understand how much we all wanted this to be good, it's the best story ever written, or should I say it was. Unfortunately some really bad choices have been made dating back to the choice of author to complete the books. I'm sorry if I offend you by saying it but any support for this product is motivated by greed not intellectual integrity. 

[notpropaganda73]

7 hours ago, kent1963 said:

You have watched the show and read the books? I'm going to assume so. I understand how much we all wanted this to be good, it's the best story ever written, or should I say it was. Unfortunately some really bad choices have been made dating back to the choice of author to complete the books. I'm sorry if I offend you by saying it but any support for this product is motivated by greed not intellectual integrity. 

 

What do I get out of enjoying the show other than enjoyment? What an arrogant assumption. 

[king of nowhere]

9 hours ago, kent1963 said:

You have watched the show and read the books? I'm going to assume so. I understand how much we all wanted this to be good, it's the best story ever written, or should I say it was. Unfortunately some really bad choices have been made dating back to the choice of author to complete the books.

sanderson is widely recognized as one of the best fantasy writers of this generation. if he was not good enough for you, nobody would ever have been.

Quote

I'm sorry if I offend you by saying it but any support for this product is motivated by greed not intellectual integrity. 

wot sold 90 million copies. i'm not sure how much of thaat went to the author, but harriet must have several tens of millions. and she's octuagenarian.

I seriously doubt she'd give the slightest damn about money.

[Shrike]

So far the series is playing out at the lower end of the range of hopes I had going in.  Some rambling...

 

Writing: I see a lot of changes that were necessary due to the change in media and time constraints - those are fine.  But I also see changes that seem to be solely because the show writers thought they could do better than Jordan at telling the story or building the arcs - those I hate.  Destroying the Perrin character just because they wanted to make him more of a mess really irks me - and I was not even much of a Perrin fan in the books.  Also, they should have hired someone better at writing dialogue.  It is really stumbling and awkward and unnatural most of the time.  That said, I do think they improved the Nynaeve character from the books.  Moiraine is also more human.  Matt is different, but more fleshed out (at least until his awkward departure scene).  Liandrin is great.  Lan's character is not at all like the books and I don't see a reason for it yet. 

 

Production quality: Much less than I expected given the budget.  Sets are good; but they seem to have run out of money to hire enough extras... and must have overspent on quality you could not see because they did not have large enough sets for many scenes (some were downright claustrophobic).  When I compare it to Season 2 of the Witcher it falls far short.  

 

Casting: Excellent, if I put most of the limitations I see on the writing.  

 

Acting: This one they hit a home run (mostly).  Still waiting to see if Josha can bring it - because his scenes have been really sparse, and the dialogue writing has not been helpful. But giving them that benefit of the doubt they all seem to have the chops. 

 

Putting my hopes on some BIG lessons learned in Season 2.  I don't expect the finale to redeem Season 1 enough - no matter how good.  

[Elder_Haman]

14 hours ago, kent1963 said:

I'm sorry if I offend you by saying it but any support for this product is motivated by greed not intellectual integrity. 

You don't offend me. But (a) you have no evidence for this assertion; and (b) that type of cynicism doesn't work for me. It seems exhausting.

[right]

Well I like it.  I miss some of the nuances from the books, but there was no way to fit all those in.  The easter eggs they were able to add were nice.

[ArrylT]

 

 

Another reddit poll - has more votes  than the previous poll 

 

current results:

 

How are you feeling about the show:

 

993

21.7%

9-10 (excellent)

 

2.7k

58.9%

7-8 (good with some flaws)

 

607

13.3%

5-6 (average to fine)

 

204

4.5%

3-4 (bad)

 

78

1.7%

less than 3 (unwatchable)

 

 

[Vambram]

3 hours ago, ArrylT said:

 

 

Another reddit poll - has more votes  than the previous poll 

 

current results:

 

How are you feeling about the show:

 

993

21.7%

9-10 (excellent)

 

2.7k

58.9%

7-8 (good with some flaws)

 

607

13.3%

5-6 (average to fine)

 

204

4.5%

3-4 (bad)

 

78

1.7%

less than 3 (unwatchable)

 

 

 

Thank you for the update.

Just by doing some quick math, it looks like there are over 3,000 voters on that reddit poll who are rating the television show as 7 or higher. Whereas, there are 889 voters who give the television show a 6 or lower rating.