WoT Premier - Read At Your Own Risk!

[Guire]

3 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

I can't remember, does WAFO stand for Waddle Around For Ourselves or Wipe Away Foreign Orangutans?

 

I'm lost.

Walk Around Fondling Ourselves is the obvious bad take.  Not caring because I am too happy because some guy on youtube told me Dragon will be revealed in episode 7.  I just want the marketing ploys in rear view mirror by end of season.  

[Guire]

4 minutes ago, NightWolf said:

Tip of the hat to you, your definition is most accurate.

I was in the military.  Bad acronyms is kind of our thing.  Shocked RJ didnt throw a few in. WINS. Warder, Indestructible, Never Sleeps.  example " Too be a true Sister of the Green Ajah it's all about WINS."

Edited November 18, 2021 by Guire
clarification

[Beidomon]

2 hours ago, Guire said:

I just want the marketing ploys in rear view mirror by end of season.  

I don’t think we’ll be so lucky. And by “marketing ploys” I’m also referring to “updating for modern sensibilities.”

[Beidomon]

12 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

Nothing you mentioned above will be impacted. None of it will be mentioned and none of it needs to be. Reds hunting male channelers may be mentioned, but that isn't a change. They aren't going to have episodes where they're thinking/talking about female false dragons and spend a bunch of time talking about what the world was like before Rand. Book readers will know but most non-readers will not even think about it.

 

It will have close to 0 impact on lore and backstory that is covered by the show. And it doesn't change the books.

I disagree for all the reasons I’ve already stated. But you’re right, for most of the audience that never read the books, they’ll never know what a dumb change this was. At most, it’ll be a plot hole for those that think deeper about the implications. 
 

And it is somewhat telling that nobody has yet made a compelling case for why this change actually improves the story. At least not that I’m aware of. The best explanation I’ve seen is that it was a marketing hook to create more of a mystery, but evidently even that doesn’t wash because the mystery will supposedly be resolved

Spoiler

before the end of the first season.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Beidomon

[Elder_Haman]

1 hour ago, Beidomon said:

nobody has yet made a compelling case for why this change actually improves the story.

The "who is the Dragon" mystery is, I think, intended to keep new viewers thinking about all of the EF5 characters as opposed to dismissing some as obvious side characters. In an ensemble show (like this one), it's easy to lose track of characters - even your mains. This is a double problem for WoT since the first couple of books are almost entirely from Rand's PoV.

 

I guess it remains to see how good a tactic it will be (less than 9 hours!!), but I think that's the idea behind it.

 

[Beidomon]

17 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

The "who is the Dragon" mystery is, I think, intended to keep new viewers thinking about all of the EF5 characters as opposed to dismissing some as obvious side characters. In an ensemble show (like this one), it's easy to lose track of characters - even your mains. This is a double problem for WoT since the first couple of books are almost entirely from Rand's PoV.

 

I guess it remains to see how good a tactic it will be (less than 9 hours!!), but I think that's the idea behind it.

 

I’m getting excited to watch. I’ve been reading the reviews (and this thread) because I’ve already read the books so I don’t care about spoilers. So far, it’s pretty mixed. Some are good although possibly for the wrong reasons (reviews being written from that “modern sensibility” perspective that certain admins get very prickly about discussing).
 

Also seeing a lot of “this is very generic fantasy” and “an LOTR ripoff” (I’m paraphrasing) criticism. Which is extremely frustrating because WOT is NOT generic fantasy but I was worried this is the angle Amazon would take and this is why I’m upset about the change in the lore watering down the dichotomy and conflict.

 

Based on what you’re saying, my prediction about the saving “the big event” for the penultimate episode of season 1 was correct - and I’m not sure any of the reviews have gotten that far? So hopefully the main story will be on track by the end of Season 1.

 

I’m not a book purist, especially as we get further into the series. I don’t care about TM playing a particular instrument, or placement or how a ruby is positioned. I don’t care a lick about modifying Perrin and Mat’s backstories to build out those characters. Sounds good to me. Same for Logain. The story could benefit from all that. 

 

WOT is so good and WOTTV could actually be better if they stick to main storyline and don’t get distracted with the whole “modern sensibility” stuff!!!

Edited November 18, 2021 by Beidomon

[themann1086]

Also (Spoiler box in case you don't want to know about the episode 7 title and description that leaked)

 

Spoiler

The Dark Along The Ways episode description indicates that the identity of the Dragon Reborn will be revealed (at least to the audience).

And pretty much every review, either good, middling or bad, say that episode 6 is by far the best. I expect the season to close out on a bang

[Skipp]

3 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

I’m getting excited to watch. I’ve been reading the reviews (and this thread) because I’ve already read the books so I don’t care about spoilers. So far, it’s pretty mixed. Some are good although possibly for the wrong reasons (reviews being written from that “modern sensibility” perspective that certain admins get very prickly about discussing).
 

Also seeing a lot of “this is very generic fantasy” and “an LOTR ripoff” (I’m paraphrasing) criticism. Which is extremely frustrating because WOT is NOT generic fantasy but I was worried this is the angle Amazon would take and this is why I’m upset about the change in the lore watering down the dichotomy and conflict.

 

Based on what you’re saying, my prediction about the saving “the big event” for the penultimate episode of season 1 was correct - and I’m not sure any of the reviews have gotten that far? So hopefully the main story will be on track by the end of Season 1. WOT is so good and WOTTV could actually be better if they don’t get distracted with the whole “modern sensibility” stuff!!!

 

If you look at where these reviews are coming from A LOT of the negative ones are coming from sources that are not fans of the genre.  Where as the more "nerdy" reviewers don't mention that nearly as much.  Now even the "nerdy" reviewers have issues with other things like the pacing but you can often tell people who are fans on the genre based on how they are wording their reviews.

 

I wouldn't be too worried.

[mogi68]

"It's a lotr ripoff!" is good since that's what the beginning of TEOTW was going for

[Calembel]

I see so many reviews comparing TWoT to GoT, but really it's more similar to LOTR than GoT. Just because LOTR wasn't a tv show, doesn't mean it can't be compared. 

[Elder_Haman]

8 minutes ago, Calembel said:

I see so many reviews comparing TWoT to GoT, but really it's more similar to LOTR than GoT. Just because LOTR wasn't a tv show, doesn't mean it can't be compared. 

I tell people that Wheel of Time is the bridge from LotR to GoT. And it has elements of both along with something that is uniquely its own.

 

I'm not discouraged by "generic fantasy" reviews. There's a reason they only released 6 episodes and have been so closemouthed about the last two. The series is destined to be finished just before Christmas and before New Year's. That's prime series binging territory there as people hang out at home with families and friends. By the time people return to work and school, lots of people will have seen the whole show and tell their friends and co-workers.

 

If S1 ends strong, (and the cast have all hinted that it does) I'm very enthusiastic about the prospects. And S2 is where they will really get to start exploring the characters in earnest. Just like tGH + tDR broke out of the LotR mold, I expect S2 will break away from 'generic fantasy' into 'compelling character drama in a fantastical setting' which I think was GoT's recipe for success.

[Calembel]

8 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I tell people that Wheel of Time is the bridge from LotR to GoT. And it has elements of both along with something that is uniquely its own.

 

I'm not discouraged by "generic fantasy" reviews. There's a reason they only released 6 episodes and have been so closemouthed about the last two. The series is destined to be finished just before Christmas and before New Year's. That's prime series binging territory there as people hang out at home with families and friends. By the time people return to work and school, lots of people will have seen the whole show and tell their friends and co-workers.

 

If S1 ends strong, (and the cast have all hinted that it does) I'm very enthusiastic about the prospects. And S2 is where they will really get to start exploring the characters in earnest. Just like tGH + tDR broke out of the LotR mold, I expect S2 will break away from 'generic fantasy' into 'compelling character drama in a fantastical setting' which I think was GoT's recipe for success.

Oh I fully agree and I most definitely didn't intend on saying that WoT is exactly like LOTR either, but just rather if it had to be compared to anything, I would choose LOTR over GoT.

[CaddySedai]

@Beidomon After 2 episodes it didn't feel "generic fantasy" - especially because the OP is the best use of magic in a fantasy series I have ever seen. There is no foolish wand waving in this class.

 

Don't trust the reviewers.

 

Is it the "perfect adaptation" not so far...but is it a good ...possibly great one. Seems on track from 2.

 

All I know is as long as the DR is still Rand (or Cadsuane...just saying I am flexible :P) I am fine with any changes they want.

 

TM is a talking bowl of clam chowder? Cool.

PF decides to be a good guy and ends up being the new sealbreaker? Fire it up.

 

Why? Is it because I want or desire changes? Nah... its because of the Battle in EF. It was SO good that I am willing to sit through a billiont-y episodes if I get more One Power setpieces. I mean it was Two on Tons...Imagine when armies are actually involved!

 

Trust me. Your new favorite weave will be the "Winespring Shotgun™".

 

You'll know it when you see it ?

 

Spoiler

Also she dances a bit when she uses the power...her weaving is very flowy and blends with Lan and his warder forms. Earlier on we see a Red channeling and its very aggressive and there is no dancing. So it seems like each Aes Sedai will have their own quirks and methods to using the power. I actually kinda like that. It gives you an idea of their personality...are they aggressive? Calm and flowing like a river? Or in the case of Greens...probably no nonsense because in a battle you need to be quick and decisive? Its intriguing ?

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by CaddySedai

[Elder_Haman]

Another thing about the "who's the Dragon" mystery. It is also a narrative tool for focusing on the lore of the Dragon. It allows the writers to try to organically answer the question of "what is the Dragon" as the show unfolds.

[Water and shade]

I get it’s partially Amazon’s fault but the constant derivative of GOT reviews are driving me nuts. If anything I think a LOTR comparison is way more apt. Tone and themes seem more aligned with LOTR than GOT. Some of the reviews are like it’s like GOT with themes of friendship instead of political drama and sex. Fine to have complaints but it’s odd to say WOT is derivative when GRRM said RJs friendship was huge in writing WOT.

[CaddySedai]

1 minute ago, Water and shade said:

I get it’s partially Amazon’s fault but the constant derivative of GOT reviews are driving me nuts. If anything I think a LOTR comparison is way more apt. Tone and themes seem more aligned with LOTR than GOT. Some of the reviews are like it’s like GOT with themes of friendship instead of political drama and sex. Fine to have complaints but it’s odd to say WOT is derivative when GRRM said RJs friendship was huge in writing WOT.

 

Its more because GoT was a TV show - a recent one at that. So it would inevitably get the nod.

 

People FORGET that at this point LOTR the movies are 20, 19, 18 years old.

[Calembel]

2 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

Its more because GoT was a TV show - a recent one at that. So it would inevitably get the nod.

 

People FORGET that at this point LOTR the movies are 20, 19, 18 years old.

Oh man, this makes me feel so old! lol

[Water and shade]

3 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

Its more because GoT was a TV show - a recent one at that. So it would inevitably get the nod.

 

People FORGET that at this point LOTR the movies are 20, 19, 18 years old.

God you just made me feel way to old ?

[Beidomon]

3 hours ago, mogi68 said:

"It's a lotr ripoff!" is good since that's what the beginning of TEOTW was going for

 

Well. If you exclude the Prologue. Which WOTTV didn't have to do.

[Elder_Haman]

41 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Which WOTTV didn't have to do.

It would have been a very poor way to start the tv series, IMO. Not necessarily saying that their open is stronger (I'll find out soon!), but I would have done away with the prologue if it was my adaptation too.

[Joe B]

This doesn't flow with the conversation, but this thought hit me and I am not sure where to post this. 

 

Spoiler

With how the show depicts the "corruption" of Saidin, how do you think the black cords flowing from Aginor and other Forsaken will be depicted? Will they try to not confuse non-readers and make it something else?

 

[flinn]

tick freaking tock.. getting closer and closer.

[TheMountain]

Spoiler

One thing that is starting to dawn on me as a bit disappointing is the lack of Tam's fever dream. He pulls out a sword and Tam gets healed right as rain, but Rand never asks any questions and Tam never has anything to say about him leaving with Moraine. The character development between Rand and Tam is one area that I'm realizing now sorely suffers from the manufactured "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" mystery. It's also much less believable. Are we really to believe that Rand and Tam have nothing to say to each other after winternight?

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by TheMountain

[Guire]

2 hours ago, Joe B said:

This doesn't flow with the conversation, but this thought hit me and I am not sure where to post this. 

 

  Hide contents

With how the show depicts the "corruption" of Saidin, how do you think the black cords flowing from Aginor and other Forsaken will be depicted? Will they try to not confuse non-readers and make it something else?

 

I think that would be confusing at first glance but would resolve quickly if DO power is solid black.

[Skipp]

6 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

  Hide contents

One thing that is starting to dawn on me as a bit disappointing is the lack of Tam's fever dream. He pulls out a sword and Tam gets healed right as rain, but Rand never asks any questions and Tam never has anything to say about him leaving with Moraine. The character development between Rand and Tam is one area that I'm realizing now sorely suffers from the manufactured "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" mystery. It's also much less believable. Are we really to believe that Rand and Tam have nothing to say to each other after winternight?

 

 

Yeah, I have heard that isn't in the show and it is unfortunate as it is one of my favourite scenes in the first book.  It is a powerful scene as the character doesn't get answers and has to leave.  But I imagine we will be getting other scenes that aren't in the book that are going to blow us away.  It is all a balancing act and we can only hope it balances out well.