New clip about the Aes Sedai

[DaddyFinn]

44 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Seems to me that the Aes Sedai are gonna be cast as "the servants of all" who are all good guys? Admirable? Loved by the people?

 

White cloaks = simple, dumb insane bad guys (because they're religious and against women). Women in power haters. Hopefully they give us more nuance - hopefully some people can actually see whitecloak in themselves...understand how people could BELIEVE Aes Sedai are evil. 

How can you make these wild assumptions from what we have seen?

[Maximillion]

9 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

So, you just ignore the actual things she says and go directly to the subtext that you're reading into it? Is she wrong about the Old Tongue? Which of her actual statements is wrong? 

 

 

Ah but we don't know how to fully translate the old tongue - so anything we come up with is perfectly in line with what RJ wanted!

Great. Make up the 'old tongue is impossible to be sure of' baseline that means nothing is disprovable and then ask for proof.

?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

How can you make these wild assumptions from what we have seen?

Because the conversation has devolved into worst case scenario pessimism. People seem to have lost all ability to be objective or to reserve judgment.

[Elder_Haman]

Just now, Maximillion said:

 

Ah but we don't know how to fully translate the old tongue - so anything we come up with is perfectly in line with what RJ wanted!

Great. 

?

Again. She didn't say that, but keep making things up to suit your prejudgments.

[DaddyFinn]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Because the conversation has devolved into worst case scenario pessimism. People seem to have lost all ability to be objective or to reserve judgment.

I have skimmed these last few pages on this and other threads of the same topic. They are full of pointless, baseless negativity. I won't bother to read those walls of text.

[swollymammoth]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Is she wrong about the Old Tongue?

This question of whether or not the Old Tongue is a gendered language is so pointless. Plenty of the prophecies, including the one which sets Moiraine out on her quest, are not in the Old Tongue. It's just justification after justification, and they're gonna handpick from the lore in order to shoehorn in whatever they want. 

 

Like, what was wrong with the midicholorians in Stars Wars? The force still worked the same. It didn't do anything different, but that change was a huge issue for a lot of people because it undermined the contextual backdrop which gave meaning to the Force in the first place. 

 

These things matter, and justifying them by simply saying, "totally unshow related" is just a handwave. Like, with an adaptation, suspension of disbelief operates on two levels instead of one. 

1. I have to suspend my disbelief in order to accept that what is happening is real

2. I have to suspend my disbelief to believe that the story I'm watching is WoT and not just a fanfic. 

 

They're just making that second level more and more difficult. Lots of people are going to have trouble engaging with this show, and it's for no reason other than a marketing gimmick. 

[Maximillion]

6 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Because the conversation has devolved into worst case scenario pessimism. People seem to have lost all ability to be objective or to reserve judgment.

 

They have introduced a massive change where the DR can be a woman.  

Then look at the way Morraine is dressed and how here character is presented.

The ridiculous way she positioned the back story...

The writing is not only on the wall in Trolloc blood, it's dried and impossible to rub off.

The story is quite clearly being hijacked to push the same crap we have to listen to on near every other show.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[SinisterDeath]

12 minutes ago, Jackdaw_Fool said:

To get back on topic, I'm sorry but I don't understand what your reply to me is trying to say... I'm not understanding what the black ajah not being able to bring men into the tower to be converted has to do with anything from my post? Unless you are maybe agreeing with me and pointing out some more things that may have changed in the world historically with having the possibility of a female dragon?

The White Tower's directive has been to bring the Dragon in so they could control the dragon.

They have also been actively stilling every male channeler in the hopes of preventing catastrophe. Presumably, they would have stilled Rand "for the greater good".

 

They have no reason to still female channelers. Bringing them, allows them to better control them under their leadership.

The Black Ajah, have no reason not to still or kill potential dragons, and every reason to also bring in women to shape them. 

[Elder_Haman]

1 minute ago, swollymammoth said:

They're just making that second level more and more difficult.

But you don't know that because you haven't seen the show. What bothers me about the folks who are so bound and determined to see everything through a negative lens is that you are pre-emptively talking yourself out of liking something before you try it. It's like when my son was a toddler and refused to eat pepperoni pizza because he though the pepperoni looked gross. Now it's his favorite.

 

How about we just wait and see...

[TheMountain]

Funny you should mention pepperoni. You know what that say about sausages. Once you've seen how they're made...

[Rose]

3 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

This question of whether or not the Old Tongue is a gendered language is so pointless. Plenty of the prophecies, including the one which sets Moiraine out on her quest, are not in the Old Tongue.

 

They're not in English either, though. That's my point. The vulgar tongue (is that what it's called?) is also not English. If it's derived from a language that isn't gendered, it could also not be gendered. We don't know what it is because we never see it actually written. We only see the English "translation."

 

For the record I'm not saying this is a good or bad choice, just curious how they might justify it using what we know of the world.

 

Sarah seems to say that the Old Tongue IS gendered though, but in a different way than English is, which is fascinating and making my inner language nerd want to come out.

[Maximillion]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But you don't know that because you haven't seen the show. What bothers me about the folks who are so bound and determined to see everything through a negative lens is that you are pre-emptively talking yourself out of liking something before you try it. It's like when my son was a toddler and refused to eat pepperoni pizza because he though the pepperoni looked gross. Now it's his favorite.

 

How about we just wait and see...

 

Unfortunately, in the world we live in it is RARE to get a show that is not polluted with the nonsense in modern day society.  With that back drop, it is not surprising that trust/confidence levels are low.  Then, when clear signs of the same nonsense start emerging in clips, well.  Here we are.

There will be a lot of people that will be turned off already - but by the same token, probably more love that sh*t.  So good for them.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[Rose]

8 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

Then look at the way Morraine is dressed and how here character is presented.

 

I'm going to regret asking, but what's wrong with the way Moiraine is dressed?

[Ryan al'Thor]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But you don't know that because you haven't seen the show. What bothers me about the folks who are so bound and determined to see everything through a negative lens is that you are pre-emptively talking yourself out of liking something before you try it. It's like when my son was a toddler and refused to eat pepperoni pizza because he though the pepperoni looked gross. Now it's his favorite.

 

How about we just wait and see...

I want it to succeed, but my confidence is waning. They managed to alter lore and the way the dragon is perceived (probably many snowball effects) in the first minute of the show.

[Maximillion]

3 minutes ago, Rose said:

 

I'm going to regret asking, but what's wrong with the way Moiraine is dressed?

 

It doesn't fit with her character at all.

It's more like some Marvel superhero or fighter from the Green Ajah.

They are going to make her into some nonsense ninja warrior or something - I can just see it.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[swollymammoth]

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But you don't know that because you haven't seen the show.

So if the showrunners announced that the show would only air in a 4:3 aspect ratio, could I complain about that? They've already made a massive change to the lore which they're gonna have to jump through tons of hoops to justify, all of which will be very distracting. How is this not going to affect the viewing experience? How is this not going to lessen the resemblance between the show and the books?

 

The only thing that is up in the air is the degree to which these changes will affect the experience and whether or not they'll be able to offset them in other areas of the production. Even if the show is a 10/10, I'm always gonna have to watch it knowing that I would have enjoyed it even more if they'd just had the restraint to not make a totally pointless change to the lore. 

[Agitel]

8 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

It doesn't fit with her character at all.

It's more like some Marvel superhero or fighter from the Green Ajah.

They are going to make her into some nonsense ninja warrior or something - I can just see it.

 

 

Only thing I noticed is that instead of divided skirts they gave her pants underneath a split dress/skirt.

 

Edit: Looked again, and in her promo shots looks like possible blouse and pants underneath dress length cloak as her traveling outfit. Is that what we're concerned with?

Edited November 4, 2021 by Agitel

[swollymammoth]

9 minutes ago, Rose said:

For the record I'm not saying this is a good or bad choice, just curious how they might justify it using what we know of the world.

It's just pointless and unnecessary. I'm no more interested in how the showrunners justify this stuff than I am in hearing my coworker explain to my his theory about why Narg is the only Trolloc who speaks. It's all headcanon. 

[WalterKohl]

5 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

It doesn't fit with her character at all.

It's more like some Marvel superhero or fighter from the Green Ajah.

They are going to make her into some nonsense ninja warrior or something - I can just see it.

 

UM you realize that Moraine has been in the field for 15-20 YEARS by the time she gets to Emmonds Field right.  The entire point was she was away from the tower most of the time to provide distance between her and Siuan... do you imagine her ridding through the wilderness in pretty silk flowing robes with no protection from the elements or stray arrows?   By the time she gets to EF she has far more field experience than most greens, not to mention far more "battle" experience than most sisters period...  

[Skipp]

16 minutes ago, Rose said:

 

They're not in English either, though. That's my point. The vulgar tongue (is that what it's called?) is also not English. If it's derived from a language that isn't gendered, it could also not be gendered. We don't know what it is because we never see it actually written. We only see the English "translation."

 

For the record I'm not saying this is a good or bad choice, just curious how they might justify it using what we know of the world.

 

Sarah seems to say that the Old Tongue IS gendered though, but in a different way than English is, which is fascinating and making my inner language nerd want to come out.

 

Agreed, I loved her thoughts on the language.  Unfortunately I have no ear or tongue for languages but I still thought it was really neat.

[Maximillion]

6 minutes ago, WalterKohl said:

UM you realize that Moraine has been in the field for 15-20 YEARS by the time she gets to Emmonds Field right.  The entire point was she was away from the tower most of the time to provide distance between her and Siuan... do you imagine her ridding through the wilderness in pretty silk flowing robes with no protection from the elements or stray arrows?   By the time she gets to EF she has far more field experience than most greens, not to mention far more "battle" experience than most sisters period...  

 

Look, rather like the 'old tongue' justifications, we can all dream up why it might fit. The reality it is doesn't fit with the books.

 

Quote

The wide hood of her cloak framed her face and dark hair, hanging in soft ringlets... her clothes were just as strange.  her cloak was sky-blue velvet, with thick silver embroidery , leaves and vines and flowers, all along the edges. Her dress gleamed faintly as she moved, a darker blue than the cloak, and slashed with cream....A wide belt of woven gold encircled her waist...

 

``They took that and somehow made her look like a ninja warrior instead.   We know why, don't we?

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[Skipp]

9 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Only thing I noticed is that instead of divided skirts they gave her pants underneath a split dress/skirt.

 

Edit: Looked again, and in her promo shots looks like possible blouse and pants underneath dress length cloak as her traveling outfit. Is that what we're concerned with?

Her outfit is amazing and practical.  I absolutely loved the suspenders, the finger/knuckless gloves and the coat.  Amazing detail on all of it.

[Maximillion]

7 minutes ago, Skipp said:

Her outfit is amazing and practical.  I absolutely loved the suspenders, the finger/knuckless gloves and the coat.  Amazing detail on all of it.

 

Looks super - just nothing like Morraine.

Looks more like a Mile Jovavich character on Resident Evil.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Maximillion

[Rose]

9 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

It's just pointless and unnecessary. I'm no more interested in how the showrunners justify this stuff than I am in hearing my coworker explain to my his theory about why Narg is the only Trolloc who speaks. It's all headcanon. 

 

That's fine, you're allowed to not be interested. Just like I'm allowed to be. Last I checked, this was a forum for discussing the TV show, which includes how they justify the changes they're making. If you're not interested in this discussion, feel free to ignore it, but don't jump down people's throats who are still enthusiastic and want to continue analyzing.

[WalterKohl]

6 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

Look, rather like the 'old tongue' justifications, we can all dream up why it might fit. The reality it is doesn't fit with the books.

 

 

No the reality is that it doesn't fit with how YOU feel she should look, even if your expectations don't match the life she had been living up until the time she is first seen in the books.