The One Power & Arrow Scene

[CaddySedai]

Compulsion generally would involve the eyes. Usually a flash or de-focusing. 

 

Or something heavy handed like jedi *waves hand clearly in front of someone and actually says what they will repeat.*

[SinisterDeath]

34 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

Compulsion generally would involve the eyes. Usually a flash or de-focusing. 

 

Or something heavy handed like jedi *waves hand clearly in front of someone and actually says what they will repeat.*

Could make it look like an ethereal icepick going into the brain. 

[AusLeviathan]

6 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

I haven't seen anything yet that I want removed from the show. Sure, there are a few things I don't agree 100% on but that's life. The newest clips have only made me feel more confident that the show is in good hands.

There's only one thing I'd want removed from the show, Lan entering the Inn with his face covered and standing there waiting for someone to ask him who he is.

 

It's not just because it looks really silly and involves multiple characters acting bizarre, it's also because this is something no Borderlander would ever do and as a result those few seconds effectively destroy a key piece of world building surrounding Borderlanders.

[Beidomon]

So again, “the magic” has nothing to do with why the arrow scene looks too clean and too posed. It has nothing to do with the cheesy Lan entrance. Neither does blood, or violence, or sex. Those scenes just look cheesy and fake.

 

I want WOTTV to succeed. I want it to be better than WOT. I think WOT Books 1-6 are some of the finest fantasy ever written. But dang the cheerleading around here can sometimes be a bit over the top. 
 

And if the excuse for WOTTV not looking as real as GOT is that one is “low fantasy” versus “mid or high fantasy,” then just dial up whatever GOT was, please. We can call this “a new turning.”

Edited October 17, 2021 by Beidomon

[JaimAybara]

For your critiques not everyone is cheerleading all the time. There is plenty of back and forth or middle ground agreement. These are just things that have been discussed in more than a few threads. For me I agree on your points made, but am hopeful that they are outliers and not the rule. Also, maybe some of them won’t be as bad when seen in full context? I’m hoping for LotR/GoT quality, and will be thrilled if we get it. If I’m given a Witcher or Shadow and Bone level quality I will still be happy. Below are my critiques based off of yours followed by my praises afterward.
 

Lan’s entrance, the arrow clip, and the red Ajah power stance are the three critiques I agree with. 

Cons: 

1) Lan’s Entrance does seem a bit drawn out, however, he could have been scouting for Moiraine, and they can somewhat communicate through the bond. This seems pretty standard for a warder to do and I would also argue he may not have anticipated the entire tavern to turn and gawk. This being said, yes clip like three seconds from the prolonged silence. 

 

2) The arrow scene looks cheesy. The CW reference isn’t exactly how I would put it but I understand the vibe people are picking out. I wouldn’t have followed the arrows so closely as a cinematic perspective and wouldn’t have “caught” them as they did. I think Logaine’s shot with the spears bouncing off was heaps better. I would also refer to a previous comment I have made, the arrows look like they are all CGI, so not only are they using CGI magic systems, they are applying them to fake arrows. It would have looked cooler if they shot real arrows at a green screen wall, then layered CGI magic on top of it and dropped those images into the shot they were making. The physical behavior of the arrows would then look more authentic and the “wrongness” wouldn’t be so extensive. 
 

3) The red Ajah power stance…why do they always put shots like this in movies and shows? It’s just so stupid. It feels like a sassy Vogue runway shot and forced to boot. I don’t get the support for these silly pose shots with sentiments of, “they look fierce,” it’s beyond me. At least the sister in Black Widow calls it out and addresses it and the movie is more self aware. But please for the love of God stop shoehorning poses like these in things.

 

Pros: 

 

1) I love the teasers of the Trollocs. I think they are unique, different enough from other fantasy creatures, look frightening, and are differentiated quite a bit as well. (So far as I can tell.) 

 

2) The Fade looks great to me. Also, different enough from other black cloaked riders, menacing, and looks real.

 

3) I like the sets and locations. As more teaser clips drop we are getting more and more examples of attention to detail: Nynaeve clutching her dagger and herbs, Two Rivers pipes, a game of stones,  Ghealdan armor matching old artwork, zooming in on the Tower meeting seeing all the different styles and cuts of dresses representing their homelands before they came to the tower. 
 

in-between:

 

Channeling- sometimes looks wicked, at other times looks hokey. Arrows scene vs. Spears scene. 
 

costume design- when looked at closely they look really good, but sometimes too clean, too new, and feels a bit costume-like vs. in world outfit. I love the tower outfits when inspected closely, but other times not so much. I think some vibrancy is good, especially if it is a different nation’s style, but too much all over will feel like someone thought vomited a bag of skittles into the design phase. I love the subtle touches, like the seven ajah’s colored on the Amyrlin Seat’s outfit. 
 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by JaimAybara

[Beidomon]

28 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

For your critiques not everyone is cheerleading all the time. There is plenty of back and forth or middle ground agreement. These are just things that have been discussed in more than a few threads. For me I agree on your points made, but am hopeful that they are outliers and not the rule. Also, maybe some of them won’t be as bad when seen in full context? I’m hoping for LotR/GoT quality, and will be thrilled if we get it. If I’m given a Witcher or Shadow and Bone level quality I will still be happy. Below are my critiques based off of yours followed by my praises afterward.
 

Lan’s entrance, the arrow clip, and the red Ajah power stance are the three critiques I agree with. 

Cons: 

1) Lan’s Entrance does seem a bit drawn out, however, he could have been scouting for Moiraine, and they can somewhat communicate through the bond. This seems pretty standard for a warder to do and I would also argue he may not have anticipated the entire tavern to turn and gawk. This being said, yes clip like three seconds from the prolonged silence. 

 

2) The arrow scene looks cheesy. The CW reference isn’t exactly how I would put it but I understand the vibe people are picking out. I wouldn’t have followed the arrows so closely as a cinematic perspective and wouldn’t have “caught” them as they did. I think Logaine’s shot with the spears bouncing off was heaps better. I would also refer to a previous comment I have made, the arrows look like they are all CGI, so not only are they using CGI magic systems, they are applying them to fake arrows. It would have looked cooler if they shot real arrows at a green screen wall, then layered CGI magic on top of it and dropped those images into the shot they were making. The physical behavior of the arrows would then look more authentic and the “wrongness” wouldn’t be so extensive. 
 

3) The red Ajah power stance…why do they always put shots like this in movies and shows? It’s just so stupid. It feels like a sassy Vogue runway shot and forced to boot. I don’t get the support for these silly pose shots with sentiments of, “they look fierce,” it’s beyond me. At least the sister in Black Widow calls it out and addresses it and the movie is more self aware. But please for the love of God stop shoehorning poses like these in things.

 

Pros: 

 

1) I love the teasers of the Trollocs. I think they are unique, different enough from other fantasy creatures, look frightening, and are differentiated quite a bit as well. (So far as I can tell.) 

 

2) The Fade looks great to me. Also, different enough from other black cloaked riders, menacing, and looks real.

 

3) I like the sets and locations. As more teaser clips drop we are getting more and more examples of attention to detail: Nynaeve clutching her dagger and herbs, Two Rivers pipes, a game of stones,  Ghealdan armor matching old artwork, zooming in on the Tower meeting seeing all the different styles and cuts of dresses representing their homelands before they came to the tower. 
 

in-between:

 

Channeling- sometimes looks wicked, at other times looks hokey. Arrows scene vs. Spears scene. 
 

costume design- when looked at closely they look really good, but sometimes too clean, too new, and feels a bit costume-like vs. in world outfit. I love the tower outfits when inspected closely, but other times not so much. I think some vibrancy is good, especially if it is a different nation’s style, but too much all over will feel like someone thought vomited a bag of skittles into the design phase. I love the subtle touches, like the seven ajah’s colored on the Amyrlin Seat’s outfit. 
 

 

GREAT take. Agree with everything. 

[TheMountain]

I for one won't be happy if it's Shadow and Bone quality. There's no way it would do WoT justice.

[JaimAybara]

29 minutes ago, TheMountain said:

I for one won't be happy if it's Shadow and Bone quality. There's no way it would do WoT justice.

That’s a fair take and like I said I’m still holding out for top shelf. I’m just saying please God don’t be Xena, Eragon, or Shannara. 

[CaddySedai]

3 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

That’s a fair take and like I said I’m still holding out for top shelf. I’m just saying please God don’t be Xena, Eragon, or Shannara. 

You are tempting the gods to give you Hercules with Kevin Sorbo lol. 

[JaimAybara]

3 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

You are tempting the gods to give you Hercules with Kevin Sorbo lol. 

May the creator forbid it. Wow. Haha, that would be disastrous.

[AusLeviathan]

3 hours ago, JaimAybara said:

I’m just saying please God don’t be Xena, Eragon, or Shannara. 

I don't think it's fair to include Xena in that conversation. Xena was actually one of the most popular shows in the world during its run, WOT would be lucky to have half the success that show had.

 

I think the effects look great so far with the exception of the almost 2D arrows in the arrow scene.

Edited October 17, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[SinisterDeath]

6 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

I don't think it's fair to include Xena in that conversation. Xena was actually one of the most popular shows in the world during its run, WOT would be lucky to have half the success that show had.

 

I think the effects look great so far with the exception of the almost 2D arrows in the arrow scene.

Heh, this reminded me of this massive contest they had in the 90s.

 

Mountain Dew/Pepsi had a word based contest, where the top prize was going to NZ on the Xena set.

[Maximillion]

48 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Heh, this reminded me of this massive contest they had in the 90s.

 

Mountain Dew/Pepsi had a word based contest, where the top prize was going to NZ on the Xena set.

 

There was a reason Xena was so successful (won't go into it, but I think it's well known).

WoTs story actually has a good chance of tapping into some of the same without ruining the story.

I suspect that is what the series is going to play to - having seen the trailer.

I hope they do it well.

[Beidomon]

11 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

 

There was a reason Xena was so successful (won't go into it, but I think it's well known).

WoTs story actually has a good chance of tapping into some of the same without ruining the story.

I suspect that is what the series is going to play to - having seen the trailer.

I hope they do it well.

….ugh. 

[JaimAybara]

10 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

I don't think it's fair to include Xena in that conversation. Xena was actually one of the most popular shows in the world during its run, WOT would be lucky to have half the success that show had.

A show doesn’t have to have the highest production value to be entertaining and Xena might be a cult classic, and have a nostalgic place for some, but if WoT has the production value of Xena or Hercules…I’m out. I don’t care how many seasons they got back in the 90’s. WoT deserves so much better.
 

I love the Original Star Trek show/movies but I would not be happy if new directors moving forward used sets and production values of the original show. And so it is with the WoT, if that makes sense?  I want to be transported into a world and believe it. Not feel like I’m watching a stage play.

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

6 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

A show doesn’t have to have the highest production value to be entertaining and Xena might be a cult classic, and have a nostalgic place for some, but if WoT has the production value of Xena or Hercules…I’m out. I don’t care how many seasons they got back in the 90’s. WoT deserves so much better.
 

I love the Original Star Trek show/movies but I would not be happy if new directors moving forward used sets and production values of the original show. And so it is with the WoT, if that makes sense?  I want to be transported into a world and believe it. Not feel like I’m watching a stage play.
 

I think you misunderstood what was being said.

 

Xena was popular, and was successful.

 

Stating that they wish the WoT show is as popular is not the saying they wish this show has the same budget or style as Xena.

[JaimAybara]

2 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I think you misunderstood what was being said.

 

Xena was popular, and was successful.

 

Stating that they wish the WoT show is as popular is not the saying they wish this show has the same budget or style as Xena.

No I’m tracking. I don’t think I clarified myself well enough as to why I placed it with some of the other examples listed. I realize it was successful and hope WoT gets that same success, I’m just highlighting that standards have gone up considerably on visuals over the years. Star Trek being my example. I love the old Trek movies and show, but visually would be like, “what the heck?” If they reverted back to old hokey lizard costumes moving forward in the franchise. Which is why I placed it with a Eragon and Shannara, but it’s a fair point to mention that Xena was successful where the others were not. 

[Agitel]

Xena was also before so called "prestige TV" took off. We're definitely going to see higher production values. Both because of tech improvements but also changes in even how television is understood as an entertainment media.

 

So there's been all this talk about it looking like YA TV, and I don't know if this was "YA", but I finally got a show comparison in mind for what I don't want it to look like but what I feel some people have been feeling: Once Upon A Time. Not prestige television either, but not the fantasy quality I want. OUAT was pretty successful, but not the aesthetic or idea I want for WOT.

 

I feel like The Witcher crossed back and forth between GOT and OUAT in its look. The interior of Cintra's palace, for example. I still enjoyed The Witcher, but it was kind of B quality TV. (Here's hoping we see some improvements next season.)

Edited October 17, 2021 by Agitel

[Rose]

32 minutes ago, Agitel said:

So there's been all this talk about it looking like YA TV, and I don't know if this was "YA", but I finally got a show comparison in mind for what I don't want it to look like but what I feel some people have been feeling: Once Upon A Time. Not prestige television either, but not the fantasy quality I want. OUAT was pretty successful, but not the aesthetic or idea I want for WOT.

 

I've only watched a few OUAT episodes and I barely remember them so I can't speak to the aesthetic, but it's definitely not a YA show. YA shows feature teenagers as main characters and if I'm not mistaken the main protagonist in OUAT (at least in the early episodes I watched) is a full grown adult with a kid of her own.

 

Since OUAT is a show about fairytales though, I think it's safe to say that it probably has a less realistic/gritty feel and it gets away with things that might break suspension of disbelief in other contexts.

 

From what I gather, a lot of the criticism about the WoT show looking YA boil down to this: there are some scenes (definitely not all) that look a little cheesier, melodramatic, and for lack of a better word, like fantasy. By which I mean that it's not necessarily trying to make us *forget* that it's fantasy. Instead it's leaning into the escapism and the cool factor. We'll see how well it works in practice.