full book spoilers Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers)

[SinisterDeath]

This Topic is dedicated to discussing Season 1 of the Wheel of Time TV Series. Full book spoilers are allowed.
If you haven't caught up on the latest episode, please avoid this topic until you have.

[Meskell]

Working through episode 1 and a few things just feel a bit jarring:

 

-Cauthon family being terrible people. Does help to stop almost all Two Rivers characters from being portrayed as saints though. 
- The Dragon Reborn being a man or woman. If it becomes Egwene, which looks to be what they are aiming for then I am 100% out. 
- Perrin having a wife. Just no and hope this doesn’t impact down the line. 
- Nynaeve being cool and in control of her emotions. Nope. 
- the way the One Power is shown doesn’t look workable or complex enough for a full series.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Meskell

[CaddySedai]

29 minutes ago, Meskell said:

-Cauthon family being terrible people. Does help to stop almost all Two Rivers characters from being portrayed as saints though. 

- The Dragon Reborn being a man or woman. If it becomes Egwene, which looks to be what they are aiming for then I am 100% out. 
- Perrin having a wife. Just no and hope this doesn’t impact down the line. 
- Nynaeve being cool and in control of her emotions. Nope. 
- the way the One Power is shown doesn’t look workable or complex enough for a full series.

 

As far as the Cauthons and Perrin - so far it is being used to help explain their motivations. As it gets deeper it actually adds to their depth. Which tbh says alot because they already are book wise very deep characters.

 

The DR is still Rand. Don't worry that is a macguffin for new audiences - the books make it very clear. We know it...but they are trying to keep it as an unknown...for drama. By end of season we should have that put to bed according to rumors.

 

Nyn is less in control than she seems - keep watching. The cracks are there ?

 

That was set piece One Power. All other examples are being done in more reserved ways. That was like showing off a new car in a trailer. Of course itll seem to do everything but take off into space. The real car is way more down to earth lol.

[CaddySedai]

By the way, a ton of new stuff has dropped on the Prime page. The "westlands map" now only shows places they are or have been, not what shall be.

 

Of note, one of the things is an expanded definition of channeling. 

 

Though yet to be formally mentioned in show... the lore page has it right:

CHANNELING

People who can touch the True Source, and access the One Power, are known as channelers. Channelers can create weaves that do many things, such as heal wounds, control the weather, and help them in battle. Currently only women are allowed to channel, as the male half of the One Power, saidin, has been tainted, causing any men who channel to eventually go mad.

Edited November 19, 2021 by CaddySedai

[MasterAblar]

Initial reactions are:

 

I really like Rand and Egwene. I love Rand being so suspicious and distrustful of Moiraine and Egwene beginning to split from him. I will say however that I really really hope that Egwene isn’t actually taveren. Potential dragon reborn is whatever, but taveren is a disservice to her character I feel.

 

I am very very worried about my boy Perrin. Beyond the atrocity that his him killing his “wife” (whom my girlfriend insists must be a dark friend) I felt he was both too emotional for book Perrin and not emotional enough for tv show Perrin who just smashed an axe into his own wife. Dude should be an utter wreck. Also: WHERE THE HELL IS ELYAS.

 

Mat has a lot of potential. Not a fan of the portrayal of his family but both that and him have potential to evolve in a way that will very satisfying. That said: no way he would be losing money gambling and no way would he get his money stolen.

 

Thom was… interesting. My girlfriend insists he’s just all kinda of wrong. I think his first scene was rough, a bit too malicious towards Rand and Mat, but thereafter he was pretty damn good. Really want to see more of him.

 

Lan: not sure, off and on to be honest. Not as much of a badass as in the books for sure but we’ll see how it evolves.

 

Moiraine: surprisingly out of commission for like 1 and a half episodes. Excellent when she was actually awake even if she’s not exactly as I imagined.

 

Random thoughts:

 

- Manetheren speech was really nice, sad it wasn’t in front of the village

- Rand breaking down a massive door he shouldn’t be able to? There goes the mystery for anyone a little genre savvy 

 

- Valda having cut off the aes sedai’s hand was absolute deviousness and I love it. Also I like that they’re showing a less villainous side to the children with Bornhald.

 

- Every Baalzamon appearance was so cool. Also: name dropping Ishamael this early? Alright then.

 

- No fever dream. No talk between Rand and Tam. Kinda disappointing there.

 

- Male channeller in the beginning is evidently a complete nobody but holy crap do I love that they introduced that madness like that so quickly and so effectively 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by MasterAblar

[CaddySedai]

@MasterAblar now that youve seen all 3. Take in the Wheel of Time Origins shorts. Launch them from x-ray within ep 3.

[MasterAblar]

3 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

@MasterAblar now that youve seen all 3. Take in the Wheel of Time Origins shorts. Launch them from x-ray within ep 3.

5 in the morning here and I work tomorrow so I think I’ll do that tomorrow ?

[SinisterDeath]

3 hours ago, Meskell said:

The Dragon Reborn being a man or woman. If it becomes Egwene, which looks to be what they are aiming for then I am 100% out. 

Rands the dragon.

 

3 hours ago, Meskell said:

Perrin having a wife. Just no and hope this doesn’t impact down the line. 

I'm just glad they did it in a way where it was legitimately an accident.

And it's already impacted down the line.

 

It's obvious he's been "stuck in his head" the first 3 episodes, and he's portraying that Really well! Down the road.

A) It sets the tone for why he's not interested in Failed.

B) It will explain his Obsession with saving her in later seasons.

C) It'll expand his fight between Axe and Hammer.

 

3 hours ago, Meskell said:

Nynaeve being cool and in control of her emotions. Nope. 

You... Didn't see her absolutely seething with rage? Does she have to be foaming at the mouth?

 

24 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

WHERE THE HELL IS ELYAS.

Off screen, guiding them to the tinkers.

 

25 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Mat has a lot of potential. Not a fan of the portrayal of his family but both that and him have potential to evolve in a way that will very satisfying. That said: no way he would be losing money gambling and no way would he get his money stolen.

Making his parents look like Meth heads was a bit much. However, he played into the "reluctant hero" 100% when he rescued his sisters.

 

26 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Thom was… interesting. My girlfriend insists he’s just all kinda of wrong. I think his first scene was rough, a bit too malicious towards Rand and Mat, but thereafter he was pretty damn good. Really want to see more of him.

He was a lot more "gruff" then I expected.

I liked the lesson he taught them.

 

27 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Manetheren speech was really nice, sad it wasn’t in front of the village

?

 

28 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Rand breaking down a massive door he shouldn’t be able to? There goes the mystery for anyone a little genre savvy 

He just a big boi. ?

 

28 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

No fever dream. No talk between Rand and Tam. Kinda disappointing there.

Ditto. As an aside, we didn't see Egwenes color pool. So maybe that'll be a flash back? Assuming they keep it.

 

We already got a nice Aiel hair color mention in episode 3... And Moiraine still hasn't told the audience the specifics of the prophecy.

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

There was no change that made me cringe. That's a good sign.

[CaddySedai]

8 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

There was no change that made me cringe. That's a good sign.

amen lol

[Vambram]

On the Dusty Wheel tonight on YouTube, a theory was talked about as to whether or not Laila Aybara was a darkfriend. Over 65% in the live chat voted that she was. 

[Arthellion]

I teared up during the one power scene.

 

seeing it on screen was just so powerful and all the feels.

 

All in all I give the show a 7.5 at the moment. Pacing is an issue and I take off .1 for not having Lan train Rand on the road but all in all very pleased. 
 

Wife loved it too.

[Mnemosyne]

First thoughts:

 

- The pacing was excellent; I was worried that maybe it's just because I know the story, but my partner who has never read the books agreed that the pacing was good.

 

- The channelling CGI seems really badly integrated. Sad to see that reviewers were correct about that. But I did like the visual concept and Rosamund Pike nails the hand motions etc.

 

- Bathtub scene... weeeiiiiird vibes!

 

- The scene between Moiraine and Valda really bothered me. The way Moiraine reacted was very out of character, for any Aes Sedai let alone Moiraine. I get that they're trying to play up how sinister the Whitecloaks are, but it was way over the top.

 

- Shadar Logoth was seriously impressive!

 

 - Moiraine lasted an awfully long time before succumbing to her very serious wound ?

 

- Adored the scene between Nynaeve and Lan; it made Nynaeve my favourite TV character thus far. Much more subtlety than Book Nynaeve.

 

- I like how they introduce the idea that a Darkfriend can be anyone, even someone who is likeable. That is important to establish in preparation for Book 2. But the supposed "motive" of this Darkfriend makes zero sense, even taking into consideration what we learn about WoT cosmology by the end of the series. Is there something I'm missing?

 

- Title sequence is really disappointing. I couldn't believe how cheap it looked, though I like the overall concept.

 

- My partner, during E2 (referring to Rand): "Well obviously it's him, right?" So much for Amazon's big "Who is the Dragon Reborn?" mystery...

 

- Perrin's wife.... yikes ? They spend so much time trying to rectify sexist issues from the books, only to fridge her?!

Edited November 19, 2021 by Mnemosyne

[Deadsy]

2 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

- Rand breaking down a massive door he shouldn’t be able to? There goes the mystery for anyone a little genre savvy 

 

I really liked this part. Thought it was a good way to show it.

 

 

  

1 hour ago, Mnemosyne said:

- The scene between Moiraine and Valda really bothered me. The way Moiraine reacted was very out of character, for any Aes Sedai let alone Moiraine. I get that they're trying to play up how sinister the Whitecloaks are, but it was way over the top.

 

What would have been in character?

Edited November 19, 2021 by Deadsy

[DaddyFinn]

7 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

What would have been in character?

Moiraine using a mist of mirrors or whateever it was called and make herself huyge and scare them off? Lol I liked the part because Moiraine was injured and weak and had to save her strength

[Deadsy]

Just now, DaddyFinn said:

Moiraine using a mist of mirrors or whateever it was called and make herself huyge and scare them off? Lol I liked the part because Moiraine was injured and weak and had to save her strength

 

 

Yep. They had just gotten done talking about how pale she was from keeping the party refreshed, and she was injured, and there were 30 some WC, not a small handful. This was one of my favorite scenes of the first 3 episodes.

[Seraphine]

4 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

Yep. They had just gotten done talking about how pale she was from keeping the party refreshed, and she was injured, and there were 30 some WC, not a small handful. This was one of my favorite scenes of the first 3 episodes.

 

Agreed on this. It was also a really great way to show the need to really pay close attention to what the Aes Sedai say.

[Agitel]

1 hour ago, Mnemosyne said:

But the supposed "motive" of this Darkfriend makes zero sense, even taking into consideration what we learn about WoT cosmology by the end of the series. Is there something I'm missing?

 

She's had a bad lot in life and blames the Fates... er... I mean... the Wheel.

[CaddySedai]

I do want to point something out

 

If anything the series has already successfully opened up discussion about NEW WoT content - something we have not had on DM in years. 

 

New members are joining to talk about it with us. 

 

I already view it as a success. Now to see if it has legs. 

[Agitel]

I think the show needs a little work to hit its stride, but there are a lot of independent elements I do like. The casting so far seems pretty great, though I need to see more of Thom.

[CaddySedai]

2 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Ditto. As an aside, we didn't see Egwenes color pool. So maybe that'll be a flash back? Assuming they keep it.

 

I… have a feeling… it will be the first arch. 

 

What was. 

[Skipp]

While not perfect I am really enjoying this as an adaptation.  I see the changes they have made and I think I am seeing why for a lot of them.  I think the pacing will settle down in time and any issues with the CG will only get better as the show continues.

 

Ultimately I am ecstatic that I have lived to see a WoT TV series and honestly couldn't care less what the naysayers who went into this show looking purely for its faults, think.

 

There is constructive criticism that can and should be leveled at what we got but I think the showrunners have a good idea of what they are doing.  I cannot wait to see where this road takes us.

 

"Roads don't work like that" - Mat Cauthon

[Seraphine]

So, I'm new to these boards, but very long-time book fan. Wanted to share a few thoughts:

 

*I'm overall really happy. I feel like the episodes got progressively better, mostly because the pacing got better as the episodes progressed and also because each of the characters is emerging. Because this story depends so much on loving the characters, I'm so glad this is happening. While a few characters aren't quite as they are in my head (e.g. Thom and Mat), I'm open to the changes, and think the acting is fantastic.

 

*Loving the scenery/settings. So beautiful and helps to convey the epic nature of Jordan's world.

 

*I get why the did the fridging, but as a feminist, not a fan of the technique. So I get it, but wish the tension in Perrin's character could have been shown through a different change in his backstory.

 

*There were multiple little moments that had me swearing. e.g. The sheep in the shape of the Fang. The whistling in Shadar Logoth.

 

*While not every scene resonated with me, there are multiple scenes I loved. Even though episode three was my favorite overall, some of my favorite scenes were in episode two. The Manetheren song scene was beautiful. I loved the scene where Moiraine talks to the Whitecloaks and then reveals to Egwene afterwards how you need to pay very close attention to what the Aes Sedai say.

 

Overall, super happy, especially since it seems to be getting better as each episode progresses!

[Seraphine]

22 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

I… have a feeling… it will be the first arch. 

 

What was. 

 

I think it will be a dream. Not sure if this has been hypothesized elsewhere, but I think the colors in the pool are the seven Ajah colors.

[Mythodikal]

OK, my response to the 3 episodes...  First off I would like to say after 25 years since reading EotW, this totally held up to anything I could have hoped for.  With that said, there will always be things that even when you expect differences, that some are too much.  So let's go there:

 

First off, and most importantly, Matt!  Watching the first episode they right away put the bad parents theme in.  This is what makes Matt a degenerate, etc.  I gave this a few scenes to consider, but I think it was a terrible decision.  He's a gambler, ok.  Barely a scene in the Winespring of him being charming.  Rand and Perrin are giving him money to help feed his sisters.  Added darkness.. necessary?  Let's get back to Matt in a bit.

 

Perrin having a wife... ummm OK.  Killing her with an axe... Maybe they avoid the Perrin and Egwene meeting the Whitecloaks.  Therefore that's what caused his hate of the axe.   If he also kills Whitecloaks with the axe then, well seems kind of redundant.  So far, really like Perrin.

 

Rand... for the most part I've been like "Yup! There's Rand".   The relationship with Egwene is more evolved and I'm fine with that.  It even lends more to his reactions to Egwene's development.  I don't like that when he is with Matt that he is the one that is making jokes.   Back to that again soon...

 

The 4 Ta'Veren thing... making Egwene a potential Dragon.  First, I'll say was Egwene not a Ta'Veren,  apparently not.  But....  Throwing her into the dragon mix is troublesome...   First off, Egwene is one of if not the most bad ass character by the end.  I really dislike the idea that one needs to increase her early revelance with this potential.  

 

Second, the whole Saidin/ Saidar thing.  If the new Dragon is a female she channels Saidar... no taint, no problem.  

 

Lan... when the two river boys (Rand) are talking shit to Moirane, Lan just keeps saddling the horses and doesn't call down the sheep hearder (easy book tie in... and week Lan).

 

Moirane, almost no complaints.  I think all acceptable by turning book into TV.  

 

Introducing Thom when they did instead of the start.  Seems really weird.  Introducing Aiel I get.  I just wonder what other stories they are shrinking.

 

Lastly... Matt!  We all know the season 1 actor will not be back for season 2.  I have a really big question.  Was the actor cut because he couldn't bring the levity to the character?  Or did the actor quit because the character was written no where near to what he signed up for?

 

Matt is supposed to be the goof, the person that doesn't understand women and men dynamics.  He's irresponsible, he's reckless, he makes you cringe at times.  He definitely makes you laugh at times.  He learns.  Right now he has tragic background,  zero personality, limited grounds for growth.

 

After 3 episodes