tv show spoilers S1E8: The Eye of the World

[Mirefox]

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

I would agree if the season was longer but Rand, Matrim, Perrin and loial's charcter arcs suffered as a result of this.

I second this completely.  They can show as many tangential stories as they want as long as the time spent with the main characters is proportional.  Unfortunately, pacing was all over the place all season long and important story beats were sacrificed for overly-drawn out side stories.  There is a way to do it correctly and there is this.

[Ryan al'Thor]

49 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

>He stared at them. Heat filled him, the burning heat of the touched sun. He could see the Draghkar clearly, soulless eyes in pale men's faces on winged bodies that had nothing of humanity about them. Terrible heat. Crackling heat.
>From the clear sky lightning came, each bolt crisp and sharp, searing his eyes, each bolt striking a winged black shape. Hunting cries became shrieks of death, and charred forms fell to leave the sky clean again.
>The heat. The terrible heat of the Light.
>He fell to his knees; he thought he could hear his tears sizzling on his cheeks. "No!" He clutched at tufts of wiry grass for some hold on reality; the grass burst in flame. "Please, nooooooo!"
>The wind rose with his voice, howled with his voice, roared with his voice down the pass, whipping the flames to a wall of fire that sped away from him and toward the Trolloc host faster than a horse could run. Fire burned into the Trollocs, and the mountains trembled with their screams, screams almost as loud as the wind and his voice.
>"It has to end!"
>He beat at the ground with his fist, and the earth tolled like a gong. He bruised his hands on stony soil, and the earth trembled. Ripples ran through the ground ahead of him in everrising waves, waves of dirt and rock towering over Trollocs and Fades, breaking over them as the mountains shattered under their hooved feet. A boiling mass of flesh and rubble churned across the Trolloc army.
>The screams died. The earth was still. Dust and smoke swirled back down the pass to surround him.

 

we missed this.

I waited the whole season for this. But nope they couldn’t give Rand his moment. Sorry but the finale was just bad. Bad changes, disjointed. Only saving grace was the acting. 

[Finfolfin]

https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/

 

This article is actually illuminating. How can we make season 2 about moiraine and lan as rosamund pike is so big an actress we cant sideline her.

[DigificWriter]

5 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

So fidelity simply doesn’t matter any time someone acquired an IP and wants to adapt it as long as they claim is is “based on?”

 

Fidelity is not an absolute universal standard.

[Therese Sedai]

7 hours ago, Ralph said:

Late to the party as usual - 

 

A question

 

Sorry I can't keep track of all our esteemed contributors and who holds what

 

How many people who liked the show until now, and were OK with the changes (not just tolerating and waiting until they stop, but trying to understand why) , were now put off and felt it is no good? 

 

Poll material? 

 

That’s really a good question. I did a lot of mental gymnastics and defended many of the changes as being understandable even if I personally didn’t like them. But I’m definitely feeling disappointed with the last episode. 

 

The thing that really did it for me beyond the anticlimactic battle at the eye was the fact that Perrin’s internal conflict between warrior/smith wasn’t developed at all even though they introduced a wife whom he killed in order to advance his arc. 8 episodes and one of the main characters really just stood around doing nothing at all.    
 

 

[JenniferL]

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/

 

This article is actually illuminating. How can we make season 2 about moiraine and lan as rosamund pike is so big an actress we cant sideline her.

I think that’s a really good point. You don’t cast someone of her stature and then sideline her for the season. That might be why “Moiraine is the main character” became a thing. 

[Mirefox]

1 minute ago, DigificWriter said:

 

Fidelity is not an absolute universal standard.

Great!  So you admit that there is a subjective element, this validating everyone who has complaints about the show based on its lack of fidelity.  Simply giving the show runners blanket immunity to any decisions they make under the guise of your “based on” standard is as u realistic as someone complaining that the show isn’t a word-for-word recreation of the novel.

[Finfolfin]

2 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I think that’s a really good point. You don’t cast someone of her stature and then sideline her for the season. That might be why “Moiraine is the main character” became a thing. 

I fear more unnecessary filler. I like Pike but i feel she may take away from the overral story with the showrunners need to put her in each episode.

[Skipp]

21 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

This was posted in the Articles and Interviews thread, but I think it belongs here too. Rafe clarifies the intention behind some of what we saw and that Moiraine really is stilled and not just shielded. 
 

https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/

The interviewer describes Moiraine as being stilled.  Rafe doesn't confirm one way or another.  Thanks for the article.

[Yojimbo]

6 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

I fear more unnecessary filler. I like Pike but i feel she may take away from the overral story with the showrunners need to put her in each episode.

Supergirl Nynaeve will heal stilling within the first 5 minutes of the second season.

[Finfolfin]

Just now, Yojimbo said:

Supergirl Nynaeve will heal stilling within the first 5 minutes of the second season.

Not at all. They want a season of Moiraine finding herself, he says it himself (rafe that is) he felt that there was nothing for moiraine and Lan to do in book two but they are the biggest actors in the show so they set up the stilling for moiraine and lan to have a stroy arc next season...then Nyn or Egwene will heal her.

[Sabio]

Ughh the Nyn protecting Egwene then Egwene healing Nyn still makes my head hurt when I think about it.  so unnecessary.  

[Mirefox]

1 minute ago, Finfolfin said:

Not at all. They want a season of Moiraine finding herself, he says it himself (rafe that is) he felt that there was nothing for moiraine and Lan to do in book two but they are the biggest actors in the show so they set up the stilling for moiraine and lan to have a stroy arc next season...then Nyn or Egwene will heal her.

Maybe someone will remind her that she’s spend 20 years tracking down the Dragon Reborn and she’s just let him wander off in the blight.  She’ll spend next season looking for him.

[TheDreadReader]

18 minutes ago, Mirefox said:

I second this completely.  They can show as many tangential stories as they want as long as the time spent with the main characters is proportional.  Unfortunately, pacing was all over the place all season long and important story beats were sacrificed for overly-drawn out side stories.  There is a way to do it correctly and there is this.

 

Season 1 would have definitely benefited from more episodes, longer episodes, or even more flexibility in durations.   A lot of people say 10 episodes would have been better but I think 9 or 12 would be the right sweet spots based on what they did.

 

One area that I really think they can improve on is their balancing of A/B plots. Episode 6 certainly could have used more time in the B plot.  Episodes 1 and 8 really needed to be split into two episodes.

 

 

[movieguru]

1 hour ago, Finfolfin said:

Still can't believe Perrin hasn't had an Axe all season (except to fridge a literal who)

Still can't believe Matrim hasn't got a quarterstaff and noone has called him Matrim.

for anyone who has read and enjoyed the books this series has become almost incomprehensible nonsense. I think no axe and no Matrim are two of the smallest slights. Perrin being married and accidently killing his wife is a totally unnecessary deviation from the book. But, spoiler alert, this last episodes switching of the visit to the Green Man to a pseudo visit to Rhuidean and the women being the ones who stop the trollocs at the gap. I'm spending too much time trying to unscramble all this. Better to have never read the books.

[TheDreadReader]

15 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Ughh the Nyn protecting Egwene then Egwene healing Nyn still makes my head hurt when I think about it.  so unnecessary.  

 

Agree.  That was dumb.  I wish they found a better way to end that.   Something as simple as the circle dissolving and Nyn and Egwene collapsing would have been better.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheDreadReader]

3 minutes ago, movieguru said:

for anyone who has read and enjoyed the books this series has become almost incomprehensible nonsense. 

 

Save for all those who have read and enjoyed the books and understand the tv show just fine. ?

 

[Cellardur]

30 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

https://www.cbr.com/wheel-of-time-rafe-judkins-interview/

 

This article is actually illuminating. How can we make season 2 about moiraine and lan as rosamund pike is so big an actress we cant sideline her.

 

26 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I think that’s a really good point. You don’t cast someone of her stature and then sideline her for the season. That might be why “Moiraine is the main character” became a thing. 

 

39 minutes ago, Finfolfin said:

I would agree if the season was longer but Rand, Matrim, Perrin and loial's charcter arcs suffered as a result of this.

I am with you on this too for the most part, but having just finished the first two books Mat gets very very little character development.  He is just sick and not adding much of being unnecessarily rude for the most part. I've just started reading/listening to where he is healed in TDR and as I said I can tell he is going to be one of my favourite characters, but that's not where the show is.

 

Before I read the interview I was going to say now Morraine and Lan are established and popular there is plenty of time to flesh out Perrin, Lioal and Mat. 

 

 

However, after reading that interview I am now very worried. I do agree Lan and Morraine don't do much in the 2nd book, but this is the perfect opportunity to focus on Mat, Perrin, Rand. It seems they are going to give into the pressure of a big name and extend her character unnecessarily just like Lucas did with Samuel L Jackson.

 

Stilling Moraine could have been a great opportunity to have Lan and her out of the way, dealing with their issues whilst the focus is elsewhere, but it seems like it's going to be a mess now.

[Cellardur]

9 minutes ago, movieguru said:

for anyone who has read and enjoyed the books this series has become almost incomprehensible nonsense. I think no axe and no Matrim are two of the smallest slights. Perrin being married and accidently killing his wife is a totally unnecessary deviation from the book. But, spoiler alert, this last episodes switching of the visit to the Green Man to a pseudo visit to Rhuidean and the women being the ones who stop the trollocs at the gap. I'm spending too much time trying to unscramble all this. Better to have never read the books.

Said it before, but Mat doesn't have much character development until his full healing.

 

I am torn about Perrin killing his wife. I am at early stage, but the two big issues Perrin is having to deal with are being a wolf brother and killing the whitecloaks, despite his size meaning he had spent a life trying not to hurt. 

 

I agree there should have been at least 10 and even better 12 episodes, but fleshing out Perrin's peaceful nature in a show is difficult without spending more time in the Two Rivers. You would need scenes before he met the Tinkers of him being reluctant to use his strength due to his size. That's hard to do. Accidentally killing his wife puts the way he behaves at the right point, but maybe it's too traumatising for his character and a very big change 

[Chivalry]

7 hours ago, Ralph said:

Late to the party as usual - 

 

A question

 

Sorry I can't keep track of all our esteemed contributors and who holds what

 

How many people who liked the show until now, and were OK with the changes (not just tolerating and waiting until they stop, but trying to understand why) , were now put off and felt it is no good? 

 

Poll material? 

 

 

I liked the show, flaws and all, and I can understand a number of the changes necessitated by the translation to a visual medium.

 

Still, it feels like they could have cut Mat and Perrin from the story and only those of us who care about their characters from the books would have noticed. I'm hopeful their story arcs are treated more respectfully in the future.

 

I did not like the final episode. I could not understand many of the decisions chosen by the writers.

 

Lastly, what could have been an actual highlight (Lan's speech to Nynaeve) came across as cheap fan service in this context.

[Blackbyrd]

2 hours ago, pretty_blossom said:

All in all - a TV show is never like the books, I need to stop comparing them.

 

This likely enhances the viewing experience. I thnk it's easy to forget that one can probably count on two hands the number of times a movie/tv show has exceeded or even matched book source material. The Godfather being the most notable exception as the book was just a fun 3 star page turner while the duology are more often than not considered 5+ star movies

 

64 hours of live action (in it's current state of limitations) is never going to be enough to match the grandosity of the WoT books

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Ughh the Nyn protecting Egwene then Egwene healing Nyn still makes my head hurt when I think about it.  so unnecessary.  

That was the worst part of the episode

[VooDooNut]

28 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

Still, it feels like they could have cut Mat and Perrin from the story and only those of us who care about their characters from the books would have noticed. I'm hopeful their story arcs are treated more respectfully in the future.

I don't think it can be overemphasized how damaging Barney's departure from the show was, even if they handled it as gracefully as they could. This really rocked the boat and we are seeing the repercussions of that action. It even felt like lines spoken during the beginning of episode 7 were a meta-attack on Barney (though I'm sure this wasn't the case, as all involved are professionals).

 

As far as Perrin goes, yes they underrepresented him in this first season, but I'm curious to see where he goes from here. I actually really enjoyed his moment with Fain. It was cool to have Perrin get fed a lot more information than the other characters, though this feels like it was meant to be a Mat moment.

30 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

Lastly, what could have been an actual highlight (Lan's speech to Nynaeve) came across as cheap fan service in this context.

This moment, strangely enough, actually felt less authentic than the moments we saw in episode 7 with Lan and Nynaeve. I'm not sure why. It felt like the actors weren't given very good direction on how to interpret the future of their characters' relationship with one another. The previous moments were easier to follow from a body language/facial expression basis, but this scene wasn't (even with Nynaeve's crocodile tears). Maybe I'm misinterpreting it though.

[dwn]

4 hours ago, JenniferL said:

So one of the things that didn’t work for me was the reveal of the Horn. I don’t mind that they changed the hiding place. It’s a logical consequence of changing the nature of the Eye. But I don’t like that it’s just sitting there under Agelmar’s throne and everyone seems to know about it. In three thousand years, they never had a “oh no, we’re all going to die” moment? What about when Malkier fell? No one thought they should use it then? It would have been better if it had been hidden in the keep, but no one knew about it and some combination of the EF5 discovered it while wandering around. Or maybe Loial happens to know it’s there and asks someone why they aren’t pulling it out? ??‍♀️

I think the reveal should have included something about the horn being hidden there since Malkier fell--i.e. kept hidden by the borderland kingdoms nearest the Pit of Doom. To me the implication was they were getting ready to get it away from the city that was about to fall, similar to how Lan was taken out of Malkier. That -might- tie it too closely to Lan, but it'd make a bit more sense.

 

Regardless of the lore, I definitely would have tweaked the scene, particularly Perrin's part. The ideas are there, but it's sloppily put together.

[Sabio]

The problem is if they make Moiraine and Lan a focal point again for the next season it will mean once again many of the main characters are going to get pushed to the back.  I understand they can't just make the actors take most of the season off.  But by going to focus on all this emotional drama between the two it will cut into lot of the main characters.