tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[JaimAybara]

2 hours ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

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I'd actually argue he's pretty important, with the whole Seanchan story. Maybe not him personally, but his story and where the Seanchan come from. For context at least. If the finale ends on the scene that has been hinted at, it will most certainly be a bit of a WTF moment for many as I *think* Hawkwing has only been mentioned once, by Egwene when talking to Moiraine? 

 

It also could have revealed you can’t channel in a Stedding by showing, not telling us, if Egwene tried to help. Would have been cool to meet one of Perrin’s mentors Elyas, (who visually would just be a hoot and holler to see and adapt), it would have been where his actual dilemma was introduced instead of killing his wife, which changes his struggle from bloodlust focused and worried about liking the kill/hunt and whether or not what he did was right, and this could have been highlighted in episode 1 still by him going rage mode and killing a bunch of trollocs,(I think this hurts the show significantly and was done because Hollywood execs wanted it for drama, not because it was actually required for t.v., or needed to have his character arc “make sense”, not to mention most of the people okay with the change are often people who never liked his character to begin with), to now he was 100% in the wrong and he is a guilty idiot. It would have built the narrative of the Wolves as well as Hawkwing, made it more subtle and nuanced with who was right and who was wrong,  but what we got was a sad sap Perrin who was totally useless and still has done hardly anything since episode 1. They could have had him kill Whitecloaks from the other group, because they appeared more just when we first met them, and it could have been a more gray dillema, this felt like a copout. 

Perrin’s story is the hardest to me to follow right now. He went from getting opinions from Tinkers and a counterpoint from Elyas, and calling out Egwene for flirting with Aram, killing whitecloaks, they could have discussed mercy killing with Elyas…and now he is a mopey incompetent wifeslayer, who we’ve been led to believe likes Egwene in the worst possible Days of Our Lives fashion, (whether it’s true or not) it has definitely been tossed in the mix. Also, the best argument against non-violence the showrunners were willing to throw in the mix was talking about dogs eating animals??? Oh my lord, I wonder what the showrunners are trying to push forward more. (Especially since Tinkers at this point in the books were nowhere near actively involved against violence, and would simply run away.) If you want to have him struggle between the two worlds of violence and non-violence, at least introduce both concepts with integrity. Not some heartfelt expert speech for non-violence and a 5th grader level argument from him a grown man about dogs eating meat. Yeah, I get it references the wolf/animal in him but come on. Weak tea. Elyas would have been a great addition and balanced out those conversations.

[Yojimbo]

4 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

Perrin’s story is the hardest to me to follow right now. He went from getting opinions from Tinkers and a counterpoint from Elyas, and calling out Egwene for flirting with Aram, killing whitecloaks, they could have discussed mercy killing with Elyas…and now he is a mopey incompetent wifeslayer, who we’ve been led to believe likes Egwene in the worst possible Days of Our Lives fashion, (whether it’s true or not) it has definitely been tossed in the mix. 

As poorly as they have handled Rand's character, to me the worst is what they have done to Perrin. He really has been mostly relegated to moping around.   The loss of the Elyas character is one of my biggest disappointments.   Loved his character.   

[ArrylT]

36 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

Your rightful opinion, but in truth I was being honest. You'll most likely not believe me, which is fine.

 

Correct sir. I've shoveled my unfair share of dirt down the drinking well. I've since learned that it doesn't help the conditions of the field.

 

I corrected my mistake and provided said correction.

 

No need. The err was mine.

 

Technically you asked who walks away. I suggested everyone but the answer is that only I will.

 

The ongoing debate on the quality of the show adaptation is going to be endemic, it's a smaller scaled, dim reflection on current world divisions and I no longer wish to expend energy and time on a neverending story. I made a foolish error on suggesting to end the trivial-ness of the quarrel. My usefulness has ended and probably wasn't even present to begin with. 

 

Your thoughts have always been appreciated by me even if I don't always agree or understand the point being made.  Either way I hope you find shade.   

[Elder_Haman]

10 minutes ago, flinn said:

is if there was a kernel of truth to it.

There is a kernel of truth. That's why it's effective. But it's only a tiny kernel, like a pebble in his shoe.

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

The loss of the Elyas character is one of my biggest disappointments.

The fact that he wasn't in S1 doesn't mean that he's been removed altogether. Clearly, Perrin's development as a wolfbrother has been pushed back.

[Yojimbo]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

The fact that he wasn't in S1 doesn't mean that he's been removed altogether. Clearly, Perrin's development as a wolfbrother has been pushed back.

Possibly.

[VooDooNut]

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

The fact that he wasn't in S1 doesn't mean that he's been removed altogether. Clearly, Perrin's development as a wolfbrother has been pushed back.

Yup. I'm actually quite interested to see how Perrin's arc goes from here. He's always been a tricky character for me to attach to and I think the series will help to show the nuance and depth of his character (in time).

[flinn]

1 minute ago, VooDooNut said:

Yup. I'm actually quite interested to see how Perrin's arc goes from here. He's always been a tricky character for me to attach to and I think the series will help to show the nuance and depth of his character (in time).

 Yeah, when Perrin isnt procrastinating or moping, he is a really fun character. Unfortunately he spends way too much of his time doing the first two things. I am sure there are plenty of us who procrastinate or even mope, but no one is writing books about us because no one wants to read about it.

[JaimAybara]

24 minutes ago, flinn said:

 Yeah, when Perrin isnt procrastinating or moping, he is a really fun character. Unfortunately he spends way too much of his time doing the first two things. I am sure there are plenty of us who procrastinate or even mope, but no one is writing books about us because no one wants to read about it.

Maybe they are transferring all of the mope to the front end? Thus, removing it from the middle of his story? I’d be okay with that. Still not over the moon by what they have done.

Spoiler

Especially since he has his family, Aram, and his actual wife to deal with internally later.

 

[KakitaOCU]

43 minutes ago, flinn said:

 I notice you left out the because... with Perrin, if it were not true... then Machin would have said something like what you said "you were never a good husband, you never loved her properly" etc. etc. etc.

 

Perrin: "You wanted Laila dead."  Probably less true, but he probably wanted her out of his life.  A dead marriage is a painful thing and the first episode really paints a picture of him hanging on and trying to make things work while she's grown distant and away.  But their problems are what causes their problems, not that he secretly loves someone else.  Beyond that, there's a very really aspect of possible emotional abuse.  Internally he might very well deflect to thinking he wants something else instead of accepting that he's genuinely not happy where he is, after all, that's admitting personal weakness.  Something most abuse victims avoid, they instead try to find ways to blame themselves.  "I'm not loving them enough, I'm not being a good enough husband."

It's right there.  Perrin's a bit more complicated because I think they wrote poorly and made it less a kernal and more a "giving the truth scope"  Because I do not get from Perrin any level of "I want Laila dead"

[DigificWriter]

A person's innmermost fears are not always true; in fact, they're quite often completely untrue, but they can still be picked at to cause - or attempt to cause - emotional pain and distress.

 

[elteryon]

Rewatching the episode, and just noticed the fireballs crashing into Dragonmount during the cold open.

 

Who's slinging fireballs? Did Aes Sedai fight at the Battle of the Shining Walls? Is it Aiel Wise Ones?

 

 

[VooDooNut]

2 minutes ago, elteryon said:

Rewatching the episode, and just noticed the fireballs crashing into Dragonmount during the cold open.

 

Who's slinging fireballs? Did Aes Sedai fight at the Battle of the Shining Walls? Is it Aiel Wise Ones?

 

 

They could be weavings, and I like the idea of Wise Ones doing the casting, but I figured the fire was just flaming projectiles thrown by something like a Cairheinen trebuchet.

[Spiritweaver1]

3 hours ago, flinn said:

 Yeah, when Perrin isnt procrastinating or moping, he is a really fun character. Unfortunately he spends way too much of his time doing the first two things. I am sure there are plenty of us who procrastinate or even mope, but no one is writing books about us because no one wants to read about it.

Apparently Faile will be showing up.  She whips him into shape in the books and I reckon it is gonna happen in the show based on the general M-F show

 

1 hour ago, elteryon said:

Rewatching the episode, and just noticed the fireballs crashing into Dragonmount during the cold open.

 

Who's slinging fireballs? Did Aes Sedai fight at the Battle of the Shining Walls? Is it Aiel Wise Ones?

 

 

I assumed that was DM hurling lava bombs needed to steal a visual from TLOTR.  It couldn't have been Aes Sedai due to the three oaths and while the rules for the Wise Ones haven't been explored in the show in the books they don't fight until Dumai's Wells.   It is not the custom.    

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, VooDooNut said:

They could be weavings, and I like the idea of Wise Ones doing the casting, but I figured the fire was just flaming projectiles thrown by something like a Cairheinen trebuchet.

I thought cannon, and we won't have Mat inventing them. (Like we had matches in Ep1.) 

[DaddyFinn]

4 minutes ago, Spiritweaver1 said:

I assumed that was DM hurling lava bombs needed to steal a visual from TLOTR.

The projectiles came from downhill, right?

[VooDooNut]

Just now, DaddyFinn said:

The projectiles came from downhill, right?

Yep.

[VooDooNut]

5 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

The projectiles came from downhill, right?

This got me thinking...where is the projectile being fired from?

 

In this shot you can see what looks like Kinslayer's Dagger off in the distance, with the fired projectile coming from South of that. Seems like that would put its origins pretty close to Cairhein, no?

 

Alternatively, those could be The Black HIlls, and then I have no clue who's firing those things.

[Spiritweaver1]

Reading some of the comments back a bit in this thread about R/E/P reminded me that I wanted to mention one of the on going jokes in the book.  This is where our three boys always think and say that the other two, or third one if talking to one another is the absent one(s) that understands/is good with women.  I do hope that starts up soon.  I am thinking it may not.

 

 It's like the term wool head which is used when somebody is being foolish or dumb.  As somebody who has been around live sheep I got that perfectly and I thought is was a great way to anchor in our hero's origin's in a small village where wool and tabac are the chief products.  I am sure they didn't include that because 90 percent of the audience wouldn't get the reference.  

 

Another thing I want my Drakhar.  Let's not stint on the shadowspawn people.  

[VooDooNut]

Just now, Spiritweaver1 said:

Another thing I want my Drakhar.  Let's not stint on the shadowspawn people.  

Oh I'm hoping for the Drakhar too. They are so deliciously sinister.

[DaddyFinn]

8 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

This got me thinking...where is the projectile being fired from?

 

In this shot you can see what looks like Kinslayer's Dagger off in the distance, with the fired projectile coming from South of that. Seems like that would put its origins pretty close to Cairhein, no?

 

Alternatively, those could be The Black HIlls, and then I have no clue who's firing those things.

I don't think those projectiles can be fired from several miles away with the devices they had available. At least not without the help of the One Power.

 

I googled the effective range of a trebuchet

Quote

The range given for projectiles are 300, 180, and 120 feet. They were used as defensive weapons stationed on walls and sometimes hurled hollowed out logs filled with burning charcoal to destroy enemy siege works.

I also saw a mention of up to 300 yards (800-900 feet)

Edited December 22, 2021 by DaddyFinn

[VooDooNut]

Yeah, I assumed they would have had to roll them several miles into position before firing. But my knowledge of trebuchets is severely lacking.

[DaddyFinn]

Just now, VooDooNut said:

Yeah, I assumed they would have had to roll them several miles into position before firing. But my knowledge of trebuchets is severely lacking.

I think it's just for the visual effect. Tigraine seems to be quite high on the slope (we see the White Tower far away and noticeably lower in one scene) so the artillery couldn't be moved uphill and close very easily.

[elteryon]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

I think it's just for the visual effect. Tigraine seems to be quite high on the slope (we see the White Tower far away and noticeably lower in one scene) so the artillery couldn't be moved uphill and close very easily.

Based on the perceived elevation was thinking trebuchet/catapult were unlikely which got me thinking channeler instead.

 

Really hope we still get Aludra and her dragons, but I guess that could be it as well.

 

Book recollection was fuzzy so couldn't recall on the Wise Ones but now my memory is filling in. Good call on the three oaths preventing the Aes Sedai from bejng the casters.

 

I'm guessing projectiles from an unreasonable distance because they look cool.

[Sabio]

3 hours ago, elteryon said:

Rewatching the episode, and just noticed the fireballs crashing into Dragonmount during the cold open.

 

Who's slinging fireballs? Did Aes Sedai fight at the Battle of the Shining Walls? Is it Aiel Wise Ones?

 

 

At least in the books Wise ones didn't take part in battles (At least against other Aiel, but unknown if any Wise Ones even went over the wall).  , and they were massively worried about offending or upsetting Aes Sedai.  So unlikely the Wise Ones would have joined in and risked angering the Aes Sedai.  Aes Sedai didn't take part since the Aiel weren't shadow spawn and never threatened the White Tower.  The Aes Sedai mostly tried healing the wounded.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Sabio