tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[expat]

Quote

concisously killing people

Isn't this the whole reason that he appears receptive to the way of the leaf?  His discussion of the way of the leaf in episode 7 seemed very wistful.  It represents his desire for peace with his propensity for violence.  This is very much part of his arc.  Certainly needs to be filled out in season 2, but it is a foundation piece.

[divica]

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

Yes. 
 

 

Not yet. But why must it happen now as opposed to later?

 

No. But why was this important? And is it more important than establishing the foundation for his relationship with Faile?

 

He didn’t accept that in book 1. 

 

No. It really doesn’t. 

I have serious doubts he knows he can connect with wolves. He never talked with them or heard them... He just had the imprension they wouldn't attack them.  It can't really be compared to what happens in the books.

 

Because the development of the characters is important if you are suposed to connect with them. If a character is undeveloped in season 1 then people don't care about that character...

 

And what fundation? that he settlled for someone else because he couldn't have eg? that his wife was insecure about eg? That he is in love with eg?

 

And I am pointing out that his book behaviour against the wc was much more developed and heroic than in the show where they gave that role to eg.

 

After watching season 1 I don't know how you can use the books to justify any direction the show will take. about 90% of the show is completly diferent of the books...

[divica]

3 minutes ago, expat said:

Isn't this the whole reason that he appears receptive to the way of the leaf?  His discussion of the way of the leaf in episode 7 seemed very wistful.  It represents his desire for peace with his propensity for violence.  This is very much part of his arc.  Certainly needs to be filled out in season 2, but it is a foundation piece.

They changed him killing the wc to him accidently killing his wife.

That are 2 very different things. 

[Windigo]

On 12/17/2021 at 8:00 AM, Ralph said:

2) Re Rand channelling in the Ways. Presumably Moiraine realised it was one of the boys, since she could not see the weaves. 

I rewatched and looks like maybe both Egwene and Rand channelled. 

[Elder_Haman]

9 minutes ago, divica said:

It can't really be compared to what happens in the books

Of course it can. 

 

10 minutes ago, divica said:

If a character is undeveloped in season 1 then people don't care about that character...

But none of the characters are “undeveloped”. Some are underdeveloped compared to the books. But we have reasons to care about each and every one of the characters. 

 

11 minutes ago, divica said:

And what fundation? that he settlled for someone else because he couldn't have eg? that his wife was insecure about eg? That he is in love with eg?

Perrin is wracked by guilt about killing Laila. That’s compounded by his inability to protect Egwene. And now he feels like he is betraying Laila’s memory because of his affection for Eg. 
 

He will need to learn to love again. This makes for a strong foundation for the Perrin/Faile relationship. 
 

14 minutes ago, divica said:

After watching season 1 I don't know how you can use the books to justify any direction the show will take. about 90% of the show is completly diferent of the books...

Because it’s still the same basic story. 

[expat]

Quote

They changed him killing the wc to him accidently killing his wife.

That are 2 very different things. 

So?  The arc is the desire to build things versus a propensity for violence.  You seemed to be hung up with the mechanism to get to the tension that he must resolve versus how he resolves it.  In the book, the first hundred times or so it comes up is because he was bigger than everyone else and accidently hurt someone in a fight because he got angry.  Therefor he had to control his temper and think through things very carefully before he acted.  People forget that in book 1, he believed that everyone thought him dumb because he took his time and thought things through before acting.  The same criticism that people are saying about him in the show, that he is a big dumb bruiser.   

[FanofKnotai]

1 hour ago, Jaysen Gore said:

I will take you at your word that you cheer loudly.

I truly don’t appreciate the thinly veiled insult 

[Gothic Flame]

5 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Of course it can. 

 

But none of the characters are “undeveloped”. Some are underdeveloped compared to the books. But we have reasons to care about each and every one of the characters. 

 

Perrin is wracked by guilt about killing Laila. That’s compounded by his inability to protect Egwene. And now he feels like he is betraying Laila’s memory because of his affection for Eg. 
 

He will need to learn to love again. This makes for a strong foundation for the Perrin/Faile relationship. 
 

Because it’s still the same basic story. 

Opinion duly noted.

But these aren't the same characters. And much of the story had to change with them.

[DigificWriter]

@divica Perrin didn't 'settle for Laila because he couldn't have Egwene'.

 

Nynaeve jumped to a false conclusion that resulted in Rand being a fool and spouting off baseless accusations.

 

Note: Post was edited because it originally incorrectly quoted the wrong person.

Edited December 19, 2021 by DigificWriter

[FanofKnotai]

46 minutes ago, BewareofSnowSnakes said:

 

I don’t think it’s childish. I think it’s quite sophisticated and attempts something new in a genre that’s too often dismissed for being derivative.

Doing something so someone can feel what you felt is childish. ??‍♂️

[Windigo]

On 12/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, orbops said:

General question - my wife and I read each of the books when they were initially published starting in 1990 and read the entire series just one time. We can barely remember anything from the books other than the names and characteristics of the main characters - so would you consider us to be non-readers? As we watch the show, we are often saying, " Oh yeah, I kinda remember this from the novels..."

No that would still be readers, but maybe not re-readers ?

[Arie]

MOD WARNING

 

I'm noticing some unpleasant behavior. Please course correct.

[JaimAybara]

44 minutes ago, BewareofSnowSnakes said:

This would indeed be an amateurish writing mistake, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening. To be fair, I don’t think all of the writing choices are above reproach. But we’ve seen Nynaeve being reprimanded for hiding Mat. And I think that Egwene has been made to appear foolish on more than one occasion: in the tower with Siuan, coming to Rand expecting an apology. His response shows a degree of maturity that emphasizes her petulance. 

Nynaeve being stubborn is still a faithful adaptation and being untrusting of Aes Sedai I wouldn’t go as far as to say is a true character flaw. As for Egwene not only seriously upstaged Perrin in what I think should have been his big season 1 moment, she partially took his scene, and I still don’t know why both of them couldn’t have made significant contributions in the torture scene; but again this is just me and Perrin was my favorite character, so I may be hyper focused on that, but simply comparing and contrasting her development vs. Perrin’s it is night and day so far to me. As for Egwene’s petulance I’ll definitely give you that one. But the amount of “she’s unbreakable” and added hurrah moments balance them out for her in my eyes. Not there yet for any of the gents, except maybe Thom? And barely Lan. (which may change soon) and if not in this season hopefully season 2. Also, thanks for the cordial back and forth and the alternative perspectives by the way. 

[Pandemonium]

https://www.ign.com/articles/the-wheel-of-time-episode-7-review-the-dark-along-the-ways

 

This review thinks episode is the worst of the season and a 5 out of 10.  what are they smoking?  

[Windigo]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:22 PM, CaddySedai said:

 

Thats the rub though, isn’t it? That statement I think defines the two groups of watchers from the readership group. 

 

Why is it fine only if it is not The Wheel of Time? So if it was a new series called Magicians in R-world it is ok? But because it is The Wheel of Time it is suddenly not ok?

 

So that right there and how you view it I think defines if you will like the show or not. If its always ok, then the show is good. If one can’t abide the modification - then it is not. 

 

I am personally of group A. 

This would disappoint me in any show, they have had moments and looks, and have started to have feelings for each other, just did not feel to me like they were at this next step yet. 
I can accept it in the show and do not think it takes away from the show so much as not including it would have added so much more later on.  Why not WoT?  because the books make more out of needing to be free of other obligations and have a strong focus on commitments. I was disappointed by the rush to sex before those commitments or Lan accepting he could commit to someone else. 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

Because they had nearly equal screen time? 

 

I don't trust the reddit breakdown. No, no, no ...no way that Perrin, Matt, and Rand had equal focus/lines as Egwene and Nynaeve through the first 7 episodes.

 

Just take this episode, which felt the most balanced to me (perhaps because the EF5...er 4, were back together). We got no Matt (not the shows fault - they're actually doing an ok job of making the most out of nightmare situation for writers/producers). Perrin had - 3 lines? And though Rand was revealed as the DR, all his scenes felt rushed ... like they were suppose to be longer but we needed more time for ... Relationship drama? 

 

But. I do think that as fans/critics, we need to extend a lot more grace and consider how everyone was effected by Covid. 

I mean - worldwide, everyone kind of got a "pass" because its been a rough couple years. Things got shut down part way through. Then I'm sure they had all sorts of protocols. Barney Harris didn't come back after 6 episodes. 

 

And another thought ... If my hot hot take is correct (see predictions thread) and 

Spoiler

Moiraine dies/disappears in the season finale

 

then the focus on the ladies is 1000% justified & all us complainers can eat crow!?

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

Also, I talked to my brother tonight - who doesn't read books (let alone long fantasy books) and he's been watching the show... Really interesting to me how he as a non-reader is reacting.

 

#1] he's still not convinced that Rand is the Dragon (so kudos I guess - I've been super negative about playing up the "mystery of the Dragon" but apparently it really works for people who haven't read the books) because, in his words "he just seems like an annoying lovesick kid". This means the show can legit still have Rand wonder if it's really true. 

 

#2] I thought Blood Snow cold open was AWESOME (my non-reader brother thought it was overtop and unrealistic - and apparently didn't connect the dots that that was Rand's mom/makes Rand the dragon - he forgot about Tam being Rand's dad cause that more than a month ago and apparently forgettable to him).

 

#3] he overall thinks the show pretty good ...not as good as the Flash though (his words not mine - don't hate). 

 

#4] he thinks it would be way better if (like other CW shows he's watched) it got 20+ episodes that were 40+ minutes. 

 

#5] his favorite character in the show is Lan (so -- I'm having some crisis/perspective shift -- because apparently what they're doing is somewhat working for non-readers!)

 

 

 

[expat]

Quote

 because the books make more out of needing to be free of other obligations and have a strong focus on commitments. I was disappointed by the rush to sex before those commitments or Lan accepting he could commit to someone else. 

In the show, they both that they were going to die the next day.  I would give them a break about not waiting for a future commitment plot.

[bkwrm79]

Mixed feelings on this one.  A lot of great stuff, but also a number of things that didn't work for me.  

 

Didn't work:

1. Min.  First character who seemed badly miscast.

2. Battle in the snow.  I thought the books went overboard in making the Aiel super-warriors, the show dialed that up several more notches.

3. Nyn snapping at Rand and Perrin.  I can believe she'd say something intemperate, but not that she'd so badly misread the situation.  Rand wasn't fighting Perrin for her - he had no idea Perrin was interested.  Sounded very contemporary and a misreading of the situation that seemed rather out of character.

4. The cold welcome Moirane got on reaching Fal Dara.

5. Moirane sending the Reds after Mat. 

 

Worked:

1. The Ways/Machin Shin.  Loved them in the books, loved them here.

2. Rand/Egwene.  I like their relationship a lot.

3.  Rand realizing he's the DR.

4. Nyn/Lan.  Yes, rushed, but they're facing the probability that both of them will die the next day.  Made sense to me.

Edited December 19, 2021 by bkwrm79

[Mailman]

7 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

To be honest the 1st book doesn't do the best job of showing a world where women hold the lion's share of the power in the world. Seriously look at who the main leaders are in the 1st book. 

 

- In Eamond's Field you have Bran + village counicl and Nyneave + women's circle, but you barely see any of the second, with Nyneave getting barely any time as a leader in the village. The Village council is far more present

- The mayor of Baerlon is male although he of course never appears

- The ship captain Bayle Domon is male

- The leader of the Tuathan is male

- The leader of the Whitecloaks is male

- The lord of Fal Dara, Agalmar Jagad is male

- The main antagonist Baalzamon/Ishamael is male

 

Literally the only real exemple of female leadership in the 1st book is Morgase. So for a series which stands out for the greater power and agency given to women, it is notably not that present in the 1st book. Obviously later books rebalance it, but It's not suprising that the show wanted to do that earlier especially for minor characters who are unimportant in the long run.

Thats a ordinary list

• We get lots of references that the womans circle gets there way on most occasions
• a ship captain as male in a profession that would be almost entirely male is not a great surprise
• Tuathan maybe but its more of a collective than anything else
• Whitecloaks an entirely male solely military body and you are expecting a female leader. 
• Lord of Fal Dara sure 
• Ishy is male

Morgase is far more important than all those characters combined (excluding Ishy as the bad guy).

And you forget that the driving force behind the whole first book is Moiraine who is a immense presence throughout the book intelligent, focussed and ruthless. All traits that have been seriously diminished in the TV show.

[VooDooNut]

Totally unrelated, but I highly recommend a frame-by-frame of the moment Rand channels over Egwene in The Ways.

 

A couple thoughts about the weaves from this moment:

• It really seems like there won't be much of a visual distinction between Saidar and Saidin, but....
• that doesn't include the horrifying, slithering taint that seems to slowly climb along Rand's weaving (from the bottom left of the frame). I wonder if future seasons will show a symbolism here with how close that taint is to touching the wielder representing how at risk of madness/evil they are, because I presume if Rand had channeled much longer the creepy crawly would have reached his body.
• I feel like the stuff that came out of Matt's mouth and the taint on Saidin are related in the show, at least based on the appearance of this effect.
• Am I seeing things, or did Rand and Egwene's weaves blend and work together, like a link? Or maybe they just overlapped.
• It looks like you can see weaves of fire from Rand at the end. Slightly tinted red. I like it. Maybe this is in other episodes but I only first noticed it here.

 

 

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, Pandemonium said:

https://www.ign.com/articles/the-wheel-of-time-episode-7-review-the-dark-along-the-ways

 

This review thinks episode is the worst of the season and a 5 out of 10.  what are they smoking?  

Its not a good episode im not sure its the worst, Stepins episode was truly ghastly, but it stumbles from from the occasional ok scene to just dreadful.

 

5/10 is way too high. 1 maybe 2 if you really liked the blood snow

 

[divica]

33 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Also, I talked to my brother tonight - who doesn't read books (let alone long fantasy books) and he's been watching the show... Really interesting to me how he as a non-reader is reacting.

 

#1] he's still not convinced that Rand is the Dragon (so kudos I guess - I've been super negative about playing up the "mystery of the Dragon" but apparently it really works for people who haven't read the books) because, in his words "he just seems like an annoying lovesick kid". This means the show can legit still have Rand wonder if it's really true. 

 

#2] I thought Blood Snow cold open was AWESOME (my non-reader brother thought it was overtop and unrealistic - and apparently didn't connect the dots that that was Rand's mom/makes Rand the dragon - he forgot about Tam being Rand's dad cause that more than a month ago and apparently forgettable to him).

 

#3] he overall thinks the show pretty good ...not as good as the Flash though (his words not mine - don't hate). 

 

#4] he thinks it would be way better if (like other CW shows he's watched) it got 20+ episodes that were 40+ minutes. 

 

#5] his favorite character in the show is Lan (so -- I'm having some crisis/perspective shift -- because apparently what they're doing is somewhat working for non-readers!)

 

 

 

Actually you just supported most of What I was saying.

 

Nobody that hasn't read the books believes that rand is the dragon and they haven't given him a story/developed his character besides being eg's boyfriend. How can they make him the dragon who they have built up as the messiah? who wants to see the second season when you don't like the main character?

 

whatever they wanted to do I think this is a major flaw and I just can't understand why they did rand this way...

 

And in regards to your prediction about moiraine I think that is the only thing that can save this show. First because the focus of the show should never be about moiraine and second because of the huge amounts of rewriting that they would need to do to make her role worth of rosamund pike in the following seasons. But I have serious doubts...

[Vambram]

I rated episode 7 as the very best episode of the season so far. For me, I give this episode a solid 9 out of 10. 

I was a little concerned that Rafe and company would have trouble sticking the landing for season 1 with episodes 7 & 8. However, now I am very confident that episode 8 will be excellent and it will end with me wanting the airing of Season 2 to be just around the corner, instead of deep into 2022. 

[VooDooNut]

2 minutes ago, GanoesParan said:

deep into 2022. 

*faints*