tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[RhienneAgain]

23 minutes ago, Dead Warder said:

IMO, there is no way to properly judge TV Lan fairly if you're looking through book Lan eyes. They both are two vastly different characters and must be treated as such. 

 

TV Lan is the cool guy that trips over his own boots sometimes, cuts down a handful of Trollocs and eventually gets Moiraine to safety. He's hip with the rest of the traveling Warders and is generally a likeable character. He reminds me of a strip mall red belt karate teacher giving classes next to Shopko and Burlington Coat Factory.

 

Book Lan isn't a nice dude, he runs a tight ship and speaks few words. He'll train the boys to survive without being a chatty boy and has one main objective, keep Moiraine alive whilst steering the party clear of danger... the best way he can. He reminds me of one of the great venerable squad leaders I had in Iraq '04. Quiet yet frightfully commanded authority with the stoicism of a marble countertop. 

Spot on.  They've just not done this to the same extent with other character so it's particularly jarring with Lan.

[Gothic Flame]

5 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Just because someone knows a job better than you doesn’t mean you have to agree with their choices or the end result. 
 

For example: M Night Shamylan. He knows directing way better than me. I loved Sixth Sense but hated Lady in the Water. Even though he was even more experienced by the time he made Lady. Knowing the job does not guarantee good results. Just saying…

Uwe Boll...gets movies made somehow...but no one watches them.

-------

Lan.... *shakes head*

Book-Lan is a guy that'll take on two fades at once and pity the fades....a war veteran that can be relied on to save the day.

 

Show-Lan is a guy that'll cut himself shaving for sympathy. A regular joe...  Certainly not someone that can countermand a king, let alone inspire and lead an army.

[Gothic Flame]

1 hour ago, JacJohns said:

Thom. The least gleeful gleeman ever. Even his into is depressing.

Maybe he's Asmodean.

Sounds like his style.

[RextheDog]

4 hours ago, FatManAngreal said:

The massive plot hole around Valda killing Aes Sedai is really starting to grate on me. I get that they are building him up to be one of the big villains of the series but it's been done so poorly. He takes their hands to stop them channeling but then admits they don't need their hands to channel and doesnt seem worried about it? And he openly goads Egwene into channelling when for all he knows she could just kill him with the power? The one power is supposed to be one of the most terrifying things for non-channelers, it's made the Aes Sedai in this adaptation seem incredibly weak.

agree.... its almost as if theres more to it .......might have to keep watching to find out

[RextheDog]

i understand the opposition to the changes in Lan, im hoping he gets a bit of 'form' back, but making him more Human can theoretically only help the WOT universe

 

ask yourself do you really want the guy to be robotically undefeatable? is that the character you want to see?

[MasterAblar]

Not sure why people are annoyed at Logain seemingly laughing at Mat. In the books there's no clue whatsoever that his laughter is tied to Rand, it doesn't even mention Logain looking at Rand. His laughing was tied to the crowds fear and hate of him.

 

It's only a lot later that Logain reveals he saw Rand with the ta'veren glow then. Obviously they're using this to hint at Mat being the DR but that doesn't take anything away from Rand compared to the books in this scene.

[RextheDog]

2 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Not sure why people are annoyed at Logain seemingly laughing at Mat. In the books there's no clue whatsoever that his laughter is tied to Rand, it doesn't even mention Logain looking at Rand. His laughing was tied to the crowds fear and hate of him.

 

It's only a lot later that Logain reveals he saw Rand with the ta'veren glow then. Obviously they're using this to hint at Mat being the DR but that doesn't take anything away from Rand compared to the books in this scene.

ill have to go back and check but i was sure they (Rand and Logain) made eye contact during the proccession and Rand felt a chill....

 

thats the way it played out in my mind

[fra85uk]

1 hour ago, RhienneAgain said:

Spot on.  They've just not done this to the same extent with other character so it's particularly jarring with Lan.

Well, to be fair, also show-Mat is different from book-Mat.

And show-Thom just shares the name with book-Thom.

 

This is a bad, bad adaptation of RJ work

BUT

it is starting to get some internal coherence with ep. 5 (best episode for me so far)

 

I think overall if you don't know nothing about the books or you manage to avoid book comparisons for each scene, you can actually somewhat enjoy the show (not a masterpiece but something you can watch when you have nothing better to do or while ironing your clothes, 6.5/10).

 

Of course, if you ask yourself "are they properly adapting the books to the screen?" the only answer is:
 

NO.  

 

Honestly, since they like so much to put their original content whenever they can, it would have been more honest to do a series loosely based on RJ universe, maybe in another age too.

 

 

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, RextheDog said:

ill have to go back and check but i was sure they (Rand and Logain) made eye contact during the proccession and Rand felt a chill....

 

thats the way it played out in my mind

 

Nope, just read through the 1st book, there's 0 mention of Logain seeing Rand, and it's all but stated that he's laughing at the crowd who are clearly scared of him but yell at him as soon as he looks elsewhere.

[Mailman]

4 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

ill have to go back and check but i was sure they (Rand and Logain) made eye contact during the proccession and Rand felt a chill....

 

thats the way it played out in my mind

Rand was on the Wall going into the garden when Logain threw back his head and laughed im pretty sure but i think he might said something like he felt he was as close as he wanted to be at that point.

 

The other part in that section is the crowd going quiet when Logain looks over them and then renewing there booing afterwards.

 

But they where never close enough for eye contact.

 

Then Rand wonders aloud why the Sisters are riding around the cage and Elayne answers causing him to fall.

 

Yes i might have read the book a few to many times.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Mailman

[AusLeviathan]

16 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

i understand the opposition to the changes in Lan, im hoping he gets a bit of 'form' back, but making him more Human can theoretically only help the WOT universe

 

ask yourself do you really want the guy to be robotically undefeatable? is that the character you want to see?

Quote

That one you have tried to kill many times, Rand said, that one who lost his kingdom, that one from whom you took everything …

Lurching, bloodied from the sword strike to his side, the last king of the Malkieri stumbled to his feet. Lan thrust his hand into the air, holding by its hair the head of Demandred, general of the Shadow’s armies.

That man, Rand shouted. That man still fights!

Yeah, I actually do want to see that Lan.

 

I don't think that the show's version of Lan would actually be willing to do something like sheathing the sword.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[RextheDog]

2 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Yeah, I actually do want to see that Lan.

 

I don't think that TV Lan would be willing to sheath the sword.

id imagine hed accidently step in a bucket, trip over on a banana skin, his sword flying out of his hand, bouncing off a tree and decapatating Demandred.

 

but i guess we'll both just have to wait and see

[AusLeviathan]

6 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

id imagine hed accidently step in a bucket, trip over on a banana skin, his sword flying out of his hand, bouncing off a tree and decapatating Demandred.

 

but i guess we'll both just have to wait and see

Given that we've established in the show that Lan is apparently a shit horseman he'll probably just fall whilst riding towards Demandred and break his own neck.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Daenelia]

Book-Lan works in the books (and you could say the same for Book-Thom, who reads to me like a characature of a traveling entertainer, tbh.). For your mind to picture them as individuals they are starkly contrasted from other, similar, characters.

 

Tv just works differently. I think TV-Lan is fine as he is and we have not yet seen enough of TV-Lan to even compare him to the Book-Lan we got to know over 14 books! That just is not fair.

[Mailman]

14 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

i understand the opposition to the changes in Lan, im hoping he gets a bit of 'form' back, but making him more Human can theoretically only help the WOT universe

 

ask yourself do you really want the guy to be robotically undefeatable? is that the character you want to see?

Not Undefeatable but damn near close to it.

He is the best of the warders which means he is the best of the best

He is Aan'allien famous even among the Aiel

He was trained to fight from the time he could walk by the bodyguards who carried him to safety as his Kingdom died.

He would not be caught completely unaware by a village wisdom able to kill him without his knowledge.

[DaddyFinn]

18 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Of course, if you ask yourself "are they properly adapting the books to the screen?" the only answer is:
 

NO.  

That is entirely subjective. What is a "proper adaptation"?

[AusLeviathan]

6 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

Tv just works differently. I think TV-Lan is fine as he is and we have not yet seen enough of TV-Lan to even compare him to the Book-Lan we got to know over 14 books! That just is not fair.

We know plenty about show Lan.

 

We know he's too sensitive for cold water, he's a shit horseman, you can easily sneak up on him and put a weapon against his neck, he's easily tricked and losing a single friend causes him to devolve into an emotional, screaming, chest beating cry baby as if he's never actually lost anyone before.

Edited December 4, 2021 by AusLeviathan

[Mailman]

1 minute ago, DaddyFinn said:

That is entirely subjective. What is a "proper adaptation"?

Not gutting and changing almost every character.

[RextheDog]

7 minutes ago, AusLeviathan said:

Given that we've established in the show that Lan is apparently a shit horseman he'll probably just fall whilst riding towards Demandred and break his own neck.

like a rodeo clown.....i bet you demandred tricks him with the old water spray in the flower trick too....

[RextheDog]

6 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Not Undefeatable but damn near close to it.

He is the best of the warders which means he is the best of the best

He is Aan'allien famous even among the Aiel

He was trained to fight from the time he could walk by the bodyguards who carried him to safety as his Kingdom died.

He would not be caught completely unaware by a village wisdom able to kill him without his knowledge.

 

given that he is more fallable in the TV show than the book, hes really not that far off the mark....nothing to suggest he isnt the best of the best of the warders, Nyn tracks him in the books (doesnt get within knifes distance) and then he gets sprayed with debri....not really his fault....

 

hes hardly the bumbling fool people are making out...apart from Nyn getting the better of him to my mind most slips can be explained away.....even being mugged by approaching WC isnt that unrealistic for book lan, as i said at the time he could have been scouting Back and only just moved to scouting forward, if anything that failure just emphasised the scale of his task

 

he does commit the cardinal sin of falling asleep though, but i always assumed he was human, even in the books, its just the EF POV that built him up to be somekind of super human in thier minds

[fra85uk]

8 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

That is entirely subjective. What is a "proper adaptation"?

An adaptation that stay true as much as possible to source material in terms of plot/characters/world-building, of course cutting  when/if necessary, but limiting the introduction of added content.

 

WoT series does not do that and frankly I think that the reasons have been explained on the web enough that I can avoid a wall-text.

Of course, it can find a dignity of its own and actually last episode was quite good in that and I feel that if they continue in this way they might avoid cancellation and find its niche.

[Elendir]

R.I.P. all scenes and characters, which was cut of, so they could waste so much time on useless Stepin.

?

[fra85uk]

8 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

 

given that he is more fallable in the TV show than the book, hes really not that far off the mark....nothing to suggest he isnt the best of the best of the warders, Nyn tracks him in the books (doesnt get within knifes distance) and then he gets sprayed with debri....not really his fault....

 

hes hardly the bumbling fool people are making out...apart from Nyn getting the better of him to my mind most slips can be explained away.....even being mugged by approaching WC isnt that unrealistic for book lan, as i said at the time he could have been scouting Back and only just moved to scouting forward, if anything that failure just emphasised the scale of his task

 

he does commit the cardinal sin of falling asleep though, but i always assumed he was human, even in the books, its just the EF POV that built him up to be somekind of super human in thier minds

 

The actor is a good actor, but show-Lan is not book-Lan. It does come out as impressive as in the book.

I agree that part of its aura comes from the perception of EF people whose POVs are narrated in the book.

Still, I prefer the book-Lan to the new character.

[fra85uk]

Sorry for the double post

Edited December 4, 2021 by fra85uk

[dwn]

Books are not TV shows; TV shows are not books. What works for one medium doesn't necessarily translate well to the other.

 

The Lan of the books is less a character than he is an extension of Moiraine, particularly in TEotW; that simply would not work on screen. You can't just have an actor be stoic and taciturn and expect a viewer to sympathise with or even comprehend him. Even Geralt and Din Djarin showed emotion, depth, and nuance.

 

Were I writing the adaptation I might make different choices, but I would definitely have fleshed out Lan's character in one way or another.