tv show spoilers S1E4: The Dragon Reborn

[Harad the White]

Just now, Maximillion said:

they are entitled to be negative about it.

Negativity is like the Universe, there is no limit. There is a hope for the Universe. Dark Energy may reverse the expansion.

[TheDreadReader]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

There is a theory that all publicity is good.  

 

Yes.   Hate watchers add to the ratings.  Hate posters across all platforms help drive engagement numbers.  It is why I read many messages with a Palpatine smile.

 

[DojoToad]

8 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Is it really obvious? Maybe because no one could stand all the negativity?

From page 2 or 3 of this thread:

Liked:

• Nothing is more dangerous than a man who knows the past
• Most Thom, Mat, and Rand scenes
• Lan and Nynaeve interactions
• You always get emotional when I drink
• Are you sure you haven’t already found it?
• Fade scared of mashadar?
• Moiraine confronting Logain after escape
• Using their own arrows against them
• Nynaeve’s radiant sun moment

Other things I liked in general - Rand and Egwene's carnal relationship.  Mat's screwed up family.

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

Very anti-climatic.

Season 1, episode 4. Early for an anti-climax. Glad you're not the show-runner.

[Sabio]

Alot of it is trying to keep people guessing, but I think they all know if they changed who the Dragon Was it wouldn't be the Wheel of Time.  All the "there once were female dragons" and making them Ta'vern is just stuff to keep people thinking Egwene or Nyn could be it.  But you can't remove Rand as the Dragon.  I mean all the distractions to me make it more obvious who it is.  Rand is the one person whose back story hasn't been discussed much, alot of looks at Perin with wolves and Mat might be able to channel etc.  Nyn has been born outside of the Two Rivers.  Egwne can channel etc.  But so far Tam fever dreams etc gone, no real look at Rand yet.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Sabio

[DojoToad]

3 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Negativity is like the Universe, there is no limit. There is a hope for the Universe. Dark Energy may reverse the expansion.

Just as there is an overabundance of hope/positivity when it is not necessarily helpful or realistic.

[Harad the White]

16 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

From page 2 or 3 of this thread:

Liked:

Impressive, but not enuf to watch the show. Why not start a short thread somewhere, about things you like enuf to watch. Should be infotaining.

 

13 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Just as there is an overabundance of hope/positivity

I hate that. Yech!

[Maximillion]

15 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Season 1, episode 4. Early for an anti-climax. Glad you're not the show-runner.

Well there are only 4 episodes until the end of the season.

 Unless we’re still guessing who the DR is into season 2 - God forbid - there is not a lot of time to develop Rand. 
 

 

12 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I hate that. Yech!

you missed the second part of his quote.

 Important context.

 

[Elder_Haman]

15 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

it is not needed.

I know this is a popular perception - that the 'who is the Dragon' stuff is just completely unnecessary. Okay. Let's stipulate that it isn't necessary.

 

But let's approach it from the perspective of why they might have made this choice:

1. The supporting cast plays a minimal role in EotW. A bigger role for each of the EF5 is clearly necessary to get actor buy in.How many actors would sign on to a long-term project after being told, "your character is super important but we really won't do much with him/her until toward the end of Season 2?"
2. You have to include other characters to get emotional buy in from the audience. Why should we care about the rest of the EF5 if Rand is immediately disclosed as the 'chosen one?' This requires the creation of new material to get to know characters who are mostly flat and one dimensional in EotW.
3. When she arrives in Emond's Field, Moiraine does not know who the DR is. As readers, we find out almost immediately, but it's not confirmed that Moiraine knows until the events at the Eye.
4. If Moiraine doesn't know until then, what's wrong with reorganizing the first book to fit from Moiraine's perspective? It gives new viewers a little bit of mystery and something to talk/theorize about.
5. Ultimately, it changes nothing.

[Maximillion]

7 minutes ago, Sabio said:

Alot of it is trying to keep people guessing, but I think they all know if they changed who the Dragon Was it wouldn't be the Wheel of Time.  All the "there once were female dragons" and making them Ta'vern is just stuff to keep people thinking Egwene or Nyn could be it.  But you can't remove Rand as the Dragon.  I mean all the distractions to me make it more obvious who it is.  Rand is the one person whose back story hasn't been discussed much, alot of looks at Perin with wolves and Mat might be able to channel etc.  Nyn has been born outside of the Two Rivers.  Egwne can channel etc.  But so far Tam fever dreams etc gone, no real look at Rand yet.

This is why I think if it is Rand , given the way the show has gone, it will be a rushed ‘oh it’s him’ moment.

 Maybe the writing will improve and they will do it well, we will see.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Maximillion

[DojoToad]

4 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Impressive, but not enuf to watch the show. Why not start a short thread somewhere, about things you like enuf to watch. Should be infotaining.

Exactly - which is why I'm not watching any longer.  Others have started positive threads that I've commented in.  Surprised you haven't found them.

 

 

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Maximillion said:

Well there are only 4 episodes until the end of the season

Four episodes? What could possible be done in four episodes at the end of a season. E.g., "The Long Night," "The Last of the Starks," "The Bells," and "The Iron Throne." If WoT, Season 1, does, a fraction of that, it will still be great.

[DojoToad]

13 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

I hate that. Yech!

Your avatar does, but I'm thinking you may be fibbing. ?

 

10 minutes ago, Maximillion said:

you missed the second part of his quote.

 Important context.

 

Selective editing

 

6 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

Four episodes? What could possible be done in four episodes at the end of a season. E.g., "The Long Night," "The Last of the Starks," "The Bells," and "The Iron Throne." If WoT, Season 1, does, a fraction of that, it will still be great.

Agreed that a lot can be done.  The fear is that it will be more of the same.

[KakitaOCU]

22 minutes ago, Beidomon said:

Ok. So after reading this, would you now just concede that Rafe's revised answer about "maybe they misunderstood the prophesy" is contrived damage control BS?

Yes and No.

I can definitely see it as damage control.  But.   It's not like he said what he said and then said "No, that's a misunderstanding."   He said "Even more important than the possibility of a female DR is..."   So he never backtracked on the changing reincarnation pieces.

Honestly, I still see no issue with it and I still find the people unhappy about it comical since there was never a chance of it not being Rand.

[Harad the White]

3 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Surprised you haven't found them.

I'm not a follower. But even if I was, it wouldn't be someone going over a cliff.

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

I know this is a popular perception - that the 'who is the Dragon' stuff is just completely unnecessary. Okay. Let's stipulate that it isn't necessary.

 

But let's approach it from the perspective of why they might have made this choice:

1. The supporting cast plays a minimal role in EotW. A bigger role for each of the EF5 is clearly necessary to get actor buy in.How many actors would sign on to a long-term project after being told, "your character is super important but we really won't do much with him/her until toward the end of Season 2?"
2. You have to include other characters to get emotional buy in from the audience. Why should we care about the rest of the EF5 if Rand is immediately disclosed as the 'chosen one?' This requires the creation of new material to get to know characters who are mostly flat and one dimensional in EotW.
3. When she arrives in Emond's Field, Moiraine does not know who the DR is. As readers, we find out almost immediately, but it's not confirmed that Moiraine knows until the events at the Eye.
4. If Moiraine doesn't know until then, what's wrong with reorganizing the first book to fit from Moiraine's perspective? It gives new viewers a little bit of mystery and something to talk/theorize about.
5. Ultimately, it changes nothing.

Valid points (at least the first 4), but I was responding to a comment that all the apparent subterfuge to keep a secret that it was poorly done and didn't fool anyone - even without the book background.

[Harad the White]

Just now, DojoToad said:

to keep a secret that it was poorly done and didn't fool anyone

"Rand? Egwene?" was the rest of the quote. Not to mention all the Nynaeve followers. Just invent a negative emoji and post it. It will save you a lot of time with "words."

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

didn't fool anyone

Thus far has fooled several non-book readers in my orbit. In fact, all of them have guessed someone different (though one shifted from Perrin to Nyn after this last episode) and no one has picked Rand.

[KakitaOCU]

2 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Valid points (at least the first 4), but I was responding to a comment that all the apparent subterfuge to keep a secret that it was poorly done and didn't fool anyone - even without the book background.

I'd disagree.  Or maybe if I agree it's that Amazon released the way they did.

We get Rand's possibility in Episode 3 (Aiel, Channeling at door).
We get Mat and Nynaeve in Episode 4.

So people had a whole week with the Rand evidence before Mat and Nynaeve came and it'll be another few days before we see Perrin's weirdness.

I think that might have been what tips.  And honestly, the showrunners build by season, not by release schedule.

[Arthellion]

7 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Valid points (at least the first 4), but I was responding to a comment that all the apparent subterfuge to keep a secret that it was poorly done and didn't fool anyone - even without the book background.

 

None of my family members or the wife have guessed who it is.

 

*shrugs*. 

[CaddySedai]

*eyeing some of the back and forth.*

 

Lets make sure we stay civil here y'all.

[DojoToad]

8 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Yes and No.

I can definitely see it as damage control.  But.   It's not like he said what he said and then said "No, that's a misunderstanding."   He said "Even more important than the possibility of a female DR is..."   So he never backtracked on the changing reincarnation pieces.

Honestly, I still see no issue with it and I still find the people unhappy about it comical since there was never a chance of it not being Rand.

At the same time, having repeated red herrings pulled across your path can break trust as well.  It's Nynaeve, no it's Mat, Perrin, Egwene...  It can be very effective if done well once in a movie/show but to do it over and over again makes the watcher feel stupid (at least for me) and be on their guard against where else they might be screwing with me.  Then I'm not as invested, because why go to all the trouble figuring things out when a rabbit will just get pulled out of the hat later?

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, Arthellion said:

None of my family members or the wife have guessed who it is.

Right! That's been most of the experience, which is why "Rand?" as the first response actually surprised me.

[DojoToad]

9 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

"Rand? Egwene?" was the rest of the quote. Not to mention all the Nynaeve followers. Just invent a negative emoji and post it. It will save you a lot of time with "words."

?

[Harad the White]

1 minute ago, DojoToad said:

At the same time, having repeated red herrings pulled across your path can break trust as well.

That's why "The Usual Suspects" was such a failure. Who knew Keyser Söze would turn out to be an abuser?