tv show spoilers S1E1: Leavetaking

[Zaladane]

40 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

No idea. Hopefully a flashback but hard to say.

This is what I'm thinking.  When it's mentioned that he looks like an Aielman and is greeted as such (Gawyn???) and/or brings up questions about his parentage he may think back to that night.  Which would explain why they completely skipped the journey back to town.

[Krakalakachkn]

Weird that the one power requires...loading.

[DaddyFinn]

3 minutes ago, Zaladane said:

This is what I'm thinking.  When it's mentioned that he looks like an Aielman and is greeted as such (Gawyn???) and/or brings up questions about his parentage he may think back to that night.  Which would explain why they completely skipped the journey back to town.

That scene would have revealed too much if they want to keep the DR identity hidden

[Zaladane]

3 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

That scene would have revealed too much if they want to keep the DR identity hidden

I see your point.  All readers of course know it's Rand.  Even reading the book for the first time you know because they spend much more time on him as I recall.

 

But still anyone who hasn't read the books but watched the show invariably will be told by someone who it is so maintaining this mystery to that degree is a little pointless imo.

[DaddyFinn]

8 minutes ago, Zaladane said:

But still anyone who hasn't read the books but watched the show invariably will be told by someone who it is

Definitely many will be told willingly or not but not everyone. Anyone can google anything if they want to. That doesn't mean mystery is pointless.

[Zaladane]

Welp I think that degree of mystery is pointless personally.  As is most aspects of the show are.  I'm not going to argue the point.

 

I've said my piece overall on the show and probably won't continue.  I'll read the books again at some point instead.

 

I'll go back to lurking and maybe post again in another 2-5 years and see how things stand with the show.  Maybe give it another chance when I can binge multiple seasons.  Peace out and have fun people.

[Zaladane]

Just now, Zaladane said:

Welp I think that degree of mystery is pointless personally (which isn't even done well in the first place, as is most aspects of the show are)  I'm not going to argue the point.

 

I've said my piece overall on the show and probably won't continue.  I'll read the books again at some point instead.

 

I'll go back to lurking and maybe post again in another 2-5 years and see how things stand with the show.  Maybe give it another chance when I can binge multiple seasons.  Peace out and have fun people.

Whoops, sorry.  Hit quote instead of edit.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Zaladane

[Krakalakachkn]

Seems a lot is made about the Lan/Moraine scene.  Actually have no issues with this.  Jordan's writing surrounding sexuality and reality was always hovered about the level of a 13 year old.  In reality, nakedness wouldn't really bother two people soul bonded to each other.  I mean there are always exceptions and such but really, this is more realistic.  Thought the "sexual" humor was actually humorous and pretty tame.  Liked how they fought together even if I though channeling looked pretty lame.

 

Rand and Egwene sleeping together was kinda weak but I get it as a much more realistic cause of the tension between them than what Jordan offered.

 

Mat's bad parents were a poor decision imo.  Mat was great otherwise.

 

Perrin married was weak.  Even if it's setting up what was previously mentioned in spoilers comments.  I thought characters of that ilk were well introduced in the books.  Honestly everyone knows everything far too quickly imo wrt Moraine dropping the DR almost immediately and all the other stuff.

 

Liked the Reds intro, dynamic and exciting, but perhaps too rushed.  

 

Honestly a lot of my issues with Dune are similar issues with WoT.  Rushed, poor introduction of characters, and not enough backstory.  I think the show could have used an intro like how Galadriel intro'd LotR.

 

 

[Chwooly]

1 hour ago, Krakalakachkn said:

I think the show could have used an intro like how Galadriel intro'd LotR.

I agree with this, I was thinking that they should have started with The New Spring, Or at least the scene with the foretelling that sets Moraine on her path. 

 

That was a 5-10 min scene that could have set up the story a hell of a lot better then it has been handled. 

[Akragard]

My biggest complaints with it weren't the character changes.  I thought the acting was incredible, particularly from everyone not an A list celebrity.  I do not like the idea that the Dragon can be a man or woman.  They say it too many times in the first episode and it dilutes the important dichotomy between the sides of the One Power.  It was an asinine change.

 

I think that the leaving out of Rand's trek back, dragging Tam on a litter and instead replacing it with what appeared to be a leisurely walk down the road with Tam on a horse diminishes what was an important expositional piece and also showed the heart of the character.

 

I get why Layla existed, but I think it's a big change that could have been a sister and still created the same character struggle.

 

Watching Lan and Tam fight was disappointing.  The battle scenes were cool, but neither one of them leapt off the screen as a world class swordsman.  It just didn't translate at all.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Akragard

[Bbqboy1275]

Episode 1 was a little off putting and underwhelming for me.  Perhaps a bit from anticipation and expectation but mostly, i think, because of the Perrin and Mat plot starts.  Perrin is my favorite character and it was highly disappointing to see them stray so far from the book.  Same with Mat to a point.  I always thought of Mat as being mischievous but not a blatant thief from parents like that.  I don't think either were handled correctly.  Not sure how i feel about the Rand/Egwene relationship status either.  

[DaddyFinn]

Just now, Bbqboy1275 said:

I always thought of Mat as being mischievous but not a blatant thief from parents like that.

It seems that Mat stole things to get money and stuff for his sisters because their parents are what they are. He also obviously loves his sisters and risked his life to save them. That's definitely Mat.

 

2 minutes ago, Bbqboy1275 said:

Not sure how i feel about the Rand/Egwene relationship status either.  

This will hopefully give more impact to their break-up and the reveal of the Dragon Reborn.

[Vartija]

The thing that bothered me most was the way Moiraine just blurted out that one of the four was the Dragon Reborn. I thought they'd keep that as a bit of a mystery and even keep Moiraine doubtful wether she had found the one she was looking for. IIRC, in the books Moiraine herself wasn't sure if she'd found the right person until much later (pretty much at the end of book 1).  Also it felt like they didn't establish the terrifying nature of being the Dragon Reborn well enough. None of the boys seemed particularily concerned about possibly being the DR. The nature of the male half of the source has barely been mentioned so far. 

 

I wish they had kept closer to the book about the way Moiraine met the boys. She created a personal bond to them with the coins and the chat they had in Emmond's Field. The was warmth in that scene that I would have liked to see on tv too. Same goes for healing Tam; the book scene of a desperate Rand asking help from a "scary" Aes Sedai and Rand's gratitude afterwards was really powerful combined with the small stuff like Lan inquiring Rand about Tam's heron mark sword etc. Also the mistrust the boys should feel about Aes Sedai could have been emphasized more. The last five minutes jus felt kind of flat. 

[Akragard]

19 hours ago, Apoc81 said:

Agreed, but I do think that peoples love for the books has made them blind to the realities of tv.

 

Its no different than GoT, even when they were at their best, couldn't come near the depth and complexity of the book. Whole characters and storylines had to be torn out. Its the natural devolution from page to screen. Imagination costs nothing. This show is 10m an episode.

 

 

Yeah, but GoT stuck close to the source material, except when necessary.  They combined multiple minor characters in to one, stuff like that.  It wasn't until the last season that the writers deviated from the story and that is the most poorly received season of the show.

 

This show started out going way off the source material.  I don't understand this idea of trying to draw in the non-book readers argument.  There are so many fans of the books, you could probably ride that wave to success, but you would also pull in those people searching for the next Game of Thrones.  GoT did not rush exposition.  They were very deliberate in the storytelling and interspersing it with action.

 

I still think the show can be good, but there need to be serious changes to the writing and, in some cases, the CGI.  There are weaknesses and cheapening of the source material that could easily kill this show after season 2 if they don't fix them.  That said, I'm hopeful that they will hit a stride and turn it around in the upcoming episodes.  They need to just slow down a bit.  It all seems too slapdash and hectic at this point.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Akragard

[DaddyFinn]

6 minutes ago, Akragard said:

I don't understand this idea of trying to draw in the non-book readers argument.  There are so many fans of the books, you could probably ride that wave to success, but you would also pull in those people searching for the next Game of Thrones. 

Book-readers alone wouldn't be enough for a few episodes let alone full seasons

[Scarloc99]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:07 AM, MashiraSedai said:

I've only watched episode one, I will watch the other 2 tomorrow. For a rushed start, and Reds being the first scene... I am underwhelmed. Hopefully it goes up from here.

 

Episode one spoiler 

 

  Hide contents

What the actual trolloc hairs... Layla really upset me. Along with the depiction of Lan and Moiraine as an item. Arrrgh. 

 

I don't think they are meant to be an item, it is a lot more complicated than that, they are sharing a bath but it isn't sexual at all. I think the idea is to bait and switch the audience into thinking one thing and then explain the warders later in the series, or have Nyn think there is something between them and find out there is not. 

 

I was overall though dissapointed 

[Joe B]

9 hours ago, Windigo said:

Ageing them up does not line up except for Egwene (b 981 so 17 in the book),
Nynaeve (b. 973 - 25 in the book ) Rand, Mat and Perrin were born in 978 TEotW takes place in 998 which makes them 20 in the books so the same as the show.
The only thing I see is that we have Perrin being a blacksmith not an apprentice which even at 20 makes no sense. 

 

Then it doesn't make sense for Rafe to say they "aged them up" for the show. During the second and third watchings, I still felt like I was watching a CW show during the scenes with Egwene and Rand.

[Borderlander]

Hate to say it, but I think Rafe should be replaced. Being allowed to mastermind this huge project should not be something he gets to automatically do for 8 years just because Amazon liked his pitch 4 years ago; Amazon owns WoT, not Rafe, and I think it would be in their best interest to make the ice-cold decision to say 'Thank you for getting things started, but you're not the right man to helm this particular wheel, we'll take it from here.'

 

The decision to start with that voice-over cold open of Moiraine talking (to herself...? to the viewer...?) about the Dragon... I honestly did not know if the actual show had started or if some teaser clip had accidentally been inserted before the real show queued up. So clumsy. Borderline inept.

 

Oof... and then the Xena-style 2nd prologue... Absolutely cringe-worthy.

 

They had 2+ years and a $100 million dollars, and THAT is how they introduce Wheel of Time to the world? I would not be surprised if tens or hundreds of thousands of potential viewers turned it off right there; I've given up on plenty of shows after the first few minutes.

 

It's like a football coach not using his last timeout and letting the clock expire, losing the game—just horrendous, head-scratchingly awful decision-making. Vote of no confidence from me.

 

That's not to say the show did not have some good decisions and other positives in other areas (and a fair share of other bad ones) but when your Head Honcho allows that kind of gobbledygook to slip through, he got to go, simple as that.

Edited November 20, 2021 by Borderlander
corrected typo

[Furydoo]

This show is a total piece of Garbage.  Nothing like the books.  Not one thing correct.  Every detail of every character sucks.

[Daenelia]

@Borderlander ... ? That makes me sad... There is  nothing cringeworthy about Xena. I loved that show, for all its faults it had lovely characters, and a cast that to me seemed to have a lot of fun. Also Lucy would kick anyone's behind. I get that a lot of people think it was some sort of weak and low budget show, but I think I saw something in its core. And I also don't think it equates to what I have seen of WoT so far.

 

A coach also does not take out a star player after one unfortunate mistake on the field (of any game), unless they punched someone's eye out or something. It might be a good thing to give the first season some time to find its feet, or balance, or ... you know how there is a moment in any series where the characters and the story suddenly seems to 'be right'? Maybe that is still coming for many people.

 

I'm already happy with it though, so it's easy for me to say.

[MasterAblar]

1 minute ago, Daenelia said:

@Borderlander ... ? That makes me sad... There is  nothing cringeworthy about Xena. I loved that show, for all its faults it had lovely characters, and a cast that to me seemed to have a lot of fun. Also Lucy would kick anyone's behind. I get that a lot of people think it was some sort of weak and low budget show, but I think I saw something in its core. And I also don't think it equates to what I have seen of WoT so far.

 

A coach also does not take out a star player after one unfortunate mistake on the field (of any game), unless they punched someone's eye out or something. It might be a good thing to give the first season some time to find its feet, or balance, or ... you know how there is a moment in any series where the characters and the story suddenly seems to 'be right'? Maybe that is still coming for many people.

 

I'm already happy with it though, so it's easy for me to say.

 

Indeed, I strongly suggest to watch the entire season to get a real clear idea of what they're doing with the show. A lot of issues can just be instantly solved in the following episodes.

[MCSkembo]

I just forced myself through Episode 1. Here's my take.

 

The good

1. Solid acting pretty much across the board. Some were better than others, but as a whole the acting was good.
2. Scenery was good, the environments were great. The village looks wonderful, if different from what we imagined.
3. Tam and Rand look almost exactly like the book says.
4. The pan up to reveal the slaughtered sheep in the shape of the Dragon's Fang was a brilliant cinematic moment.
5. Special effects weren't bad. They weren't outstanding and some corners were cut, but you had to do something other than have Moiraine standing there looking bored while things happened. The trollocs were diverse and well done.

The Not so great

1. The people of the town don't feel like a small village. Small villages who demand to know who a person is the moment they step through the door are not the types of places where you find a wide variety of races and ethnicities. This is a stupid choice that makes it feel unreal.
2. The wardrobe department gets a D, it's not a complete failure, but it could have been so much better. Especially Moiraine's ring, that thing looks like a toddler made it with play-dough.
3. Moiraine and Lan in the bath scene was just odd.

The Ugly

1. Let's get it out of the way, the script sucks. We all knew they were going to have to make changes to the storyline in order to make it work in a different media, but this is ridiculous. Honestly the last place you needed to change the storyline was in the first part of the first book. They didn't even do it for rational reasons and their storyline is much less effective.
2. Casting is rough. There is some solid acting, but why couldn't they have shaved enough money from the budget to put Perrin and Lan through a bulking cycle? Or shave the massive mole off of Egwene's nose? Literally Rand and Tam are the only ones who really look like they were described in the books. Maybe Moiraine too, but as I said the smoothness was a fail.
3. Nynaeve's character is even less likeable than in the books and that's saying something.

It's like they are stripping everything special out of the books and shoving in things they think will be more popular to a casual audience. It's so ham handed that it's hard to makes sense of things, especially the trolloc attack. 

 

Relationships

Putting Moiraine and Lan naked in a bath together was dumb. Having Rand and Egwene intimate and then casually walking around half naked (like anyone who lives with their parents does that, especially in a medieval setting). I don't want to even get into Perrin and his wive's stupidity.

 

Fighting

Lan telling Moiraine that they need to leave because "The Fade has trollocs with it, dozens" was a dumb line that made him and Moiraine less. Something he can't afford with his lack of physical presence. Neither Lan nor Tam move like blade masters.

 

Exposition

"it's trolloc poison" is another idiotic line that should have ended up on the cutting room floor. The "the four of you" speech is convincing and having them all just go "okey dokey" and hop on horses to follow her was... weird.

 

I'm waiting for my wife to watch the first episode (she's never read the books) and will watch the second one tonight with her. It will be interesting to get her take on it as someone who doesn't have any skin in the game.

[Borderlander]

4 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

@Borderlander ... ? That makes me sad... There is  nothing cringeworthy about Xena. I loved that show, for all its faults it had lovely characters, and a cast that to me seemed to have a lot of fun. Also Lucy would kick anyone's behind. I get that a lot of people think it was some sort of weak and low budget show, but I think I saw something in its core. And I also don't think it equates to what I have seen of WoT so far.

 

I loved Hercules! I only saw a few Xena's back in the day, but I enjoyed it! It may be unfair (and inaccurate) to use 'Xena' as a reference for sloppy, cheesy, low-budget TV, but it has for whatever reason become a sort of shorthand for a particular look and feel. No offence meant.

 

Maybe it would be accurate if I just said the Prologue was gosh-awful.

 

Just... the quick-edit of the rocks falling (deliberately not showing us the One Power so they could save it for Moiraine later, which, okay, but it makes the rock-falling look like they forget to start their cameras right before a stunt coordinator pushed a bunch of foam-rocks off the top.) And the two male actors jump-diving in front of a green screen when the 'rocks' landed. And the male channeler not even starting to fight back right after his imaginary buddy just urged him to... or did he fight back, but we just didn't get to see it for some reason? We'll never know. And Liandrin's over-the-top 'I'm obviously a villain' speech. And then panning up to Moiraine and Lan just standing there, watching from the cliffs above, and Moiraine somehow instantly knows this dude was 'not the one.' How does she know? If all she has to do is look at a guy and she 'just knows,' why can't she 'just know' when she looks at Mat and Perrin? And if she didn't 'know' until after the guy got gentled, why wouldn't she interfere before Liandrin gentled him? If he really might have been the Dragon, letting Liandrin gentle him would have just lost the entire war! Hasn't this been Moiraine's life work for the last 20 years? And she just watches Liandrin gentle a potential Dragon? And then, without batting an eyelash, drops the line about the 'four ta'veren?' which has already and rightly been dissected for the nonsense it is?

 

That is a lot of nitpicking, I admit—but this was the opening scene! They had years and years and a blank check to get this right! 

 

Does not fill me with confidence for future decision-making. Quite the opposite. Makes me sad, too.

 

 

[MCSkembo]

11 hours ago, SingleMort said:

 

so is this a deleted scene? Do we have to wait for The Wheel of Time: Extended Editions to get the full thing?

That's what is frustrating me with the defenders of this show. I get that you want it to be good, it just isn't. I'm trying to look past all the bad decisions, but at some point we have to admit that the script sucks and everything is downstream of that.

[MCSkembo]

3 minutes ago, Raezold said:

So I just got home from visiting friends who apparently have Amazon Prime and they noticed there was a series about the books I've been trying to get them to read for years. So of course they had to put it on because wouldn't it be awesome to see your favourite series on screen?! 

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I'm waiting for my wife to watch E1 to see if I'm just pissed because someone messed with my precious, or if it is really that bad. How did your friends like it?