How do you think the season to book relationship will go? How would you have it if you Could?

[bobert]

I think most of us expect things to get condensed, but how? How would you do it.

I expect some people would want 14 seasons one for each book? What do you think about that?

I would have the first 3 books in the first 2 seasons,

the next three books in the next 2 seasons.

Books 7-11 should get cut down to 2 or 3 seasons.

Maybe 2 Seasons for Sanderson's run.

What kind of changes would that mean for the story though?

[Guire]

On 9/6/2021 at 6:24 PM, bobert said:

I think most of us expect things to get condensed, but how? How would you do it.

I expect some people would want 14 seasons one for each book? What do you think about that?

I would have the first 3 books in the first 2 seasons,

the next three books in the next 2 seasons.

Books 7-11 should get cut down to 2 or 3 seasons.

Maybe 2 Seasons for Sanderson's run.

What kind of changes would that mean for the story though?

That feels about right.  Rafe said season 1 will have elements from first 3 books.  So I bet you are spot on. 

[mogi68]

Apparently Rafe has plans for 8 seasons https://screenrant.com/wheel-time-show-8-seasons-planned-amazon/

 

I think they will condense a lot of the travel scenes in The Great Hunt and The Dragon Reborn for season 2. It will be tough to do it all in one season, imo, especially with the fantastic climactic sequences in each book

Edited September 8, 2021 by mogi68

[DaddyFinn]

Season 1 = Book 1, some of books 2&3 (confirmed)

Season 2 = Books 2&3

Season 3 = Book 4, parts of others

Season 4 = Book 5, parts of others.

Season 5 = Book 6, parts of others

Season 6 = The "slog"(hopefully condensed a lot) and book 11

Season 7 = Most of books 12&13

Season 8 = Book 14 and the rest

 

I have no idea what parts of which books should be mixed within different seasons. Just in a way that makes sense. If they keep with 8 ~60min give or take 10min episodes per season it might be pretty hasty. 10 episodes could be good in some seasons.

 

Maybe books 4&5 could be in the same season. Maybe not.

Edited September 20, 2021 by DaddyFinn

[king of nowhere]

18 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Season 1 = Book 1, some of books 2&3 (confirmed)

Season 2 = Books 2&3

Season 3 = Book 4, parts of others

Season 4 = Book 5, parts of others.

Season 5 = Book 6, parts of others

Season 6 = The "slog"(hopefully condensed a lot) and book 11

Season 7 = Most of books 12&13

Season 8 = Book 14 and the rest

 

I have no idea what parts of which books should be mixed within different seasons. Just in a way that makes sense. If they keep with 8 ~60min give or take 10min episodes per season it might be pretty hasty. 10 episodes could be good in some seasons.

 

Maybe books 4&5 could be in the same season. Maybe not.

even though a lot of the slog could be cut, i doubt you can condense 7-11 in a single season; in there there's dumai's wells, the cleansing of saidin, the fall of ebou dar with all that led mat to marrying tuon, the black tower being born and becoming a major world power...

i belive more likely to have 2 seasons for books 4-6, and 2 seasons for 7-11

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

even though a lot of the slog could be cut, i doubt you can condense 7-11 in a single season; in there there's dumai's wells, the cleansing of saidin, the fall of ebou dar with all that led mat to marrying tuon, the black tower being born and becoming a major world power...

i belive more likely to have 2 seasons for books 4-6, and 2 seasons for 7-11

Here's hoping Seasons 4+ get 12+ episodes.

[Tim]

I agree it would make sense to condense books 4, 5 and 6 into two seasons. These are my favourite books in the series but a lot of the sequencing of events in these books reflects a pre-travelling paradigm of needing time to physically manoeuvre characters into place (that the subsequent books became a lot slower after travelling was rediscovered is a different issue).

You could repackage these as:
 

First Season (season 3?):

- Rand travels into the Waste with Egwene and Mat, goes to Rhuidean, forms complicated relationship with Avhienda; Egwene trains with the Wise Ones
- Perrin's return to the Two Rivers
- Nynaeve and Elayne confront Moghedien and the Black Ajah (though not necessarily in Tanchico and not necessarily via travelling with the Atha'an Miere) - query whether the MacGuffin of the segmented necklace is required, given it only really becomes relevant many books/seasons later

- Siuan Sanche deposed (early in the season), arrives at Salidar (late in the season)

- Rand is named He Who Comes With The Dawn, fights with Asmodean 

- Rand crosses back over Spine, battle with Couladin's forces, Band of the Red Hand established (second last episode)

- Battle of Two Rivers (last episode)
- Moiraine confronts Lanfear (last episode)

Second Season (season 4?):

 

- Rand confronts and kills Rhavin (big set piece season opener rather than closer)

- Perrin marries Faile (pushed out a bit to give Perrin more scenes this season)

- Moghedian nearly kills Birgitte and Elayne bonds her; Nynaeve captures Moghedien (skipping Caemlyn?)

- Elayne and Nynaeve arrive in Salidar

- Taim arrives, Rand hears LTT, Rand establishes the Asha'man and they commence training

- Perrin reunites with Rand

- Egwene travels to Salidar (i.e. she works it out early) with Mat and Aviendha and becomes Amyrlin Seat.

- Rand kidnapped / Dumai's Wells

 

You could push Nynaeve/Elayne/Aviendha/Mat travelling to Ebou Dar into the next season given that storyline can be majorly compressed. Or you could squeeze it into the above, so long as finding the bowl of the winds happens in one season.

 

If anything that second season (season 4) then looks a bit light on for major plot points in between the start and finish, but generally, I think there's a lot of staging in Fires of Heaven and Lord of Chaos (Rand going back to Shadar Logoth, Caemlyn and Cairhein court plotting, Egwene lying to the Wise Ones, Nynave and Elayne joining the circus, Rand treating with the Salidar Aes Sedai, introduction of Osan'gar and Aran'gar, hanging out with Elaida and Alviarin) which is fun but I could live with being cut in the name of efficiency. This gives the writers some space to add back in material which they think works in the context of the show.

 

After that I think the re-arranging and re-sequencing of events becomes not merely inevitable but desirable. You have 4 seasons to play with and really only a few absolutely essential developments to structure them around:

 

Elayne becoming Queen of Andor

Cleansing of Saidin

Mat becoming Prince of Ravens

Egwene becoming Amyrlin Seat for real

Taim and his followers turning bad

Perrin mastering the wolf dream

Darth Rand

Veins of Gold

Alliances among nations

Tarmon Gaidan

 

Given that, I'd suggest:

 

1. Season 5: broadly track books 7, 8, 9, but wrap up the Faile kidnapping arc within this one season. End with the cleansing of Saidin and Egwene arriving with her army at Tar Valon. Both of Rand's climaxes in books 7 and 8 (Shadar Logoth and the renegade Asha'man attack, respectively) were fine but not spectacular, so I don't think either need to be end of season finishers. Compress both the bowl of the wind arc and Elayne being crowned into this season. Do we really need the Kin arc? 

 

2. Season 6: broadly track books 10 (though most of it can be skipped TBH), 11 and the first half of 12, end with Rand becoming Darth Rand (either the Semirhage killing or further evidence that he has totally lost it, though I don't think that necessarily needs to take the form of him balefiring Graendal's castle); stretch the Mat/Tuon arc so the season also ends with Mat being named Prince of Ravens. Query what to do with Perrin: I'd suggest bringing half his book 13 arc forward to this season, as it felt a bit late in the piece in the books. Also end with the Seanchan invasion of the Tower but push Verin's death into the next season.

 

3. Season 7: broadly track the second half of book 12 and most of book 13, only I would push Veins of Gold back to late in the season for dramatic effect. You could have Mat with Tuon when she meets with Rand (and before Mat rescues Moraine) to really emphasise how weird and scary Rand has become and how undesirable an alliance with him at that point would be. Egwene's arc would be slightly reframed as becoming Amyrlin Seat and then defeating Mesaana and the Black Tower within a single season. End with Moraine's rescue, Rand having found his purpose again, and realising how screwed up the Black Tower is.

 

Again, query Perrin: one option would be for him to become a global warleader that basically all the remaining powers (Rand, Seanchan, Whitecloaks, White Tower, Aiel, Andor, Asha'man, the borderlands) can accept. I feel like the book kind of wasted the potential to make this point more clearly, in circumstances where Perrin was kind of unique in being able to work with all of these groups incredibly effectively.

 

4. Season 8: Book 14 and any mopping up. I find this book kind of exhausting/unrelenting, and I'm not sure that you can really have almost an entire TV season of battle without it becoming overwhelming, but the show probably needs the space of a season to find a way to tell this part of the story in a way that isn't too relentlessly grim.

[Elder_Haman]

@Tim - I like that a lot. Perrin is problematic, so I might try to split his story into two separate parts: In Part One, Perrin learns how to be a wolfbrother - but does not really learn the Dream. He learns how to become a leader of men and finally accepts the wolf.

 

In Part Two, Perrin discovers the Dream and must learn how to navigate it. I would do it by really expanding Luc/Slayer's role after the Battle of Two Rivers to make him Perrin's primary antagonist for the rest of the show.

 

After victory over the Trollocs, I'd have Perrin pursue Luc only to be diverted away by Rand at the end of Season 4. At the beginning of Season 5, Rand will send him to deal with Masema who will stand in for the Shaido in the Faile kidnap plot. Season 5 would conclude with Faile's rescue and Masema's death. Perrin will have troubled dreams, but not ever really understand that it's a separate thing.

 

Season 6 can begin by putting Perrin back on Luc's scent (see what I did there?) and plot-wise, Perrin can be trying to track Luc down because he suspects Luc is the one leading Trollocs through the Ways. How is he doing it? And this leads Perrin to discover the Dream. Perrin's season arc is about learning the Dream. Perhaps we push the death of Hopper back to the end of this season, giving Perrin an emotional blow to deal with at the end.

 

Season 7 can be where Perrin meets Galad as he struggles to put an end to Luc/Slayer. Luc will harass him in the Dream, but the main plot will involve his conflict with the Whitecloaks, the trial and the reunification of Galad with his mother. 

 

Season 8 will mostly be the Last Battle, so you can sync up Perrin's jumping about and the fighting over the dreamspike with the other events - making it clear that his timely (and otherworldly) interventions are the key to some of the successes of other characters. Perrin's ultimate victory over Slayer will feel a little more important this way (I hope). 

 

[DojoToad]

I always hated the Lord Luc/Slayer/Dream sequence with Perrin - it was as bad as the Shaido/Faile arc to me.  There are going to be big changes in the TV show - let's go real big:  Eliminate Lord Luc/Slayer and substitute in "Fire in the Ways".  Way more gratifying (for me).

 

I understand that is not canon, but I'm betting many other things in the show won't be as well.

 

The only thing I'd really miss is Perrin's interaction with Egwene - "It's just a weave".

[Elder_Haman]

55 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

I always hated the Lord Luc/Slayer/Dream sequence with Perrin

It's not my favorite either, but more in execution than in concept. I think it could work, just needs a major rewrite.

[JaimAybara]

On 9/21/2021 at 9:19 AM, DojoToad said:

I always hated the Lord Luc/Slayer/Dream sequence with Perrin - it was as bad as the Shaido/Faile arc to me.  There are going to be big changes in the TV show - let's go real big:  Eliminate Lord Luc/Slayer and substitute in "Fire in the Ways".  Way more gratifying (for me).

 

I understand that is not canon, but I'm betting many other things in the show won't be as well.

 

The only thing I'd really miss is Perrin's interaction with Egwene - "It's just a weave".

Could we merge Lord Luc with Aram? Or maybe make Lanfear’s presence larger in Perrin’s arc? I only ask this because of Slayer and Lanfear’s significance in the Last Battle and Perrin’s role in protecting Rand both in the real world and the dreamworld near the bore with Gaul. 

[JaimAybara]

Another thought, could we merge Lord Luc with Padan Fain??? They are both in the same place at the same time when Perrin Returns to Emond’s Field. 
 

*** it would be fitting for him to be the one haunting his dreams. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by JaimAybara