#WoTWednesday

[Taishar Hawaii]

@Elder_Haman, @Thrasymachus You both are to be commended for the respectful way you conducted yourselves. This type of healthy debate, with respect for each other as people, is a breath of fresh air. Thank You!

[Elder_Haman]

One other thing to consider: while we only recently found out about the filming going on in Spain, it seems that location was on the schedule before COVID. 
 

The departure from the Czech Republic on 11/1 looks more like part of the plan in light of this and less like a disruption. 

[Thrasymachus]

I'm sure that filming was already on the schedule, though before the first shutdown probably scheduled much earlier.  The Spanish filming was directed by Paco Cabezas, who is listed as director alongside Wayne Yip, who is directing episodes 3 and 4.  This strongly suggests that the battle scenes they were reportedly filming there were for Logain's capture, which we know from interviews and leaked script-readings, is going to play a much more prominent role in Rafe's telling of this story.

[Elder_Haman]

6 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

I'm sure that filming was already on the schedule, though before the first shutdown probably scheduled much earlier.  The Spanish filming was directed by Paco Cabezas, who is listed as director alongside Wayne Yip, who is directing episodes 3 and 4.  This strongly suggests that the battle scenes they were reportedly filming there were for Logain's capture, which we know from interviews and leaked script-readings, is going to play a much more prominent role in Rafe's telling of this story.

I agree you will see that. I also think you will see him being stripped of his titles as well. 

[Thrasymachus]

But I think that also doesn't bode well for an early 2021 release, either.  If they're only just recently getting those scenes for episodes 3 and 4 in the can, then the fan-speculation (that had become near gospel) that they had all but the last two episodes filmed before they resumed filming in September is false.

 

I also read that Daniel Green (Lan) said on Twitter that while they worked really hard to get as much shot as they could, they still had some re-shoots and pick-ups to do in April.  Even if 99% of on-location shooting is done, that last 1% can still hold them off.  Everything I've found in the last few days suggests the possibility of a season 1 release before May 2021 is effectively zero.  The only real chance I see of that is if they decide to split the season, release the first four episodes in Spring, and the last four in Fall.  But I really rather doubt they'll do that.  For one thing, there may yet be re-shoots for some of those first four episodes they still have to do, possibly even scenes they have yet to film at all, if the filming in Spain is any guide.  For another, unless the season was written with that kind of break in mind, it risks leaving viewers confused when it picks back up again.

 

Given these delays, my optimistic view is still a Fall 2021 release.  It's also possible that the suits will decide to just push the release by a full year, so it airs in the same block of time they were originally planning, just one year out.  Keeps them from having to completely redo the schedule.  That's my pessimistic view, Winter or Spring of 2022.

[Elder_Haman]

I think you meant Daniel Henney. (Daniel Greene being the YouTuber). I can tell you that - unless he deleted the tweet - Henney hasn’t said anything like that. He is not a prolific Tweeter. 
 

Also, given that we have no idea whether filming was ongoing at other locations (for example, did they film in Spain prior to Covid? We don’t know.) there is no way to tell whether this is - in fact, a reshoot.

 

I’ll concede that if the shooting in Spain was primary filming for one of the first 4 episodes, that would be bad news for a spring release. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Elder_Haman

[Thrasymachus]

You're right.  Daniel Henney is Lan, and I mixed that up with Daniel Greene, who reported it on his youtube channel, as well as the same thing being reported by the Daily Trolloc.  They reported from their sources that the crew pushed hard and got a lot done, but still have some pickup shots to do in April, which makes sense as they likely need it to look like Spring in their shots particularly following Tarwin's Gap and the Eye of the World.

 

There has been an intense amount of scrutiny following the cast and directors, it would be immensely surprising if they were able to get away with filming in some location without studio watchers finding out about it.  Heck, in just the last week before they shut down again in October, studio watchers uncovered a casting call out of Prague for a baby to be used in an "American fantasy" show that they deduce pretty much has to be Wheel of Time.  These guys find out when actors and directors arrive and leave from location, where they're staying, even what they have for breakfast.  It's almost inconceivable that they'd be able to hide a whole production effort from those prying eyes.

 

[Elder_Haman]

11 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

You're right.  Daniel Henney is Lan, and I mixed that up with Daniel Greene, who reported it on his youtube channel

Greene's actual reporting was, "I reached out to my sources over there and they told me: actually, what they're only really needing at this point is pickups and this actually shouldn't effect the actual current schedule they're working with too much." See this video which I posted before. Since the date of that video (11/3) he has not tweeted anything to the contrary.

 

11 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

as well as the same thing being reported by the Daily Trolloc. 

I searched there and didn't come up with much supporting this claim. There's this discussion which notes that some of the filming going on in October were reshoots. (That claim being made to WotSeries.com by anonymous sources.  See here.) Elsewhere, Narg claimed that a crew member mentioned the show had wrapped just prior to Ciaran Donnelly [director of episodes 7 and 8] leaving the Czech Republic. 

 

While this post argued that filming has not wrapped, Narg posted additional evidence that it had. They did post the WotSeries.com article claiming a production shutdown. But we should recall - that report was based entirely on unnamed sources as was the claim that production would not resume until April.

 

The Wertzone blog posted about the shutdown here but his post didn't break any new ground. He simply repeated the claims made in the original article. That post did contain another nugget - it stated, "it was believed that Season 1 was originally scheduled to air in early 2021, maybe between March and May." 

 

The closest I can find to any "confirmation" of a shutdown was this post which involves reports about an advertisement from a casting agency looking for extras. To me, this isn't very compelling.

 

My point is that the sourcing for this claim:

11 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

still have some pickup shots to do in April

is a mashup of two things --> (1) Daniel Greene's sources who claim that only pickup shot remain; and (2) the unconfirmed, unsourced WotSeries.com report that filming is to resume in April.

 

The WotSeries.com report, however, conflicts with other information (posted by Narg) that I find more compelling. 

 

In addition, I've found two new things that support my take. First is this Tweet from Rafe that casually mentions season 3. But more importantly, check out this video containing snippets of an interview with Darryl McCormack (Aram). In it, he notes that filming took place in multiple locations "all across Europe" including in the Canary Islands.

11 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

It's almost inconceivable that they'd be able to hide a whole production effort from those prying eyes.

 

Did you know they were shooting in the Canary Islands? Me either. McCormack also expresses confidence that shooting will be finished in December during the interview.

 

My feeling is that last week's drop was like a wind rising from the offices of Amazon. And that it was a beginning of the marketing campaign. Time will tell, but I'm feeling pretty good about my predictions. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Elder_Haman

[king of nowhere]

in two days it will be wot wednesday again. if we'll see some more release, then a release early next year will be likely. if we don't see anything this wednesday, and the next one, it will be a reason for pessimism

[Elder_Haman]

7 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

in two days it will be wot wednesday again. if we'll see some more release, then a release early next year will be likely. if we don't see anything this wednesday, and the next one, it will be a reason for pessimism

Don’t be shocked if nothing comes out this week. See here.

[mistborn82]

Considering the expanse airs in dec and if there's a season six in 2021, they probably won't want two of their big shows to overlap.

[Thrasymachus]

WoT Wednesdays have been the first Wednesday of the month for a while now.  Probably shouldn't expect anything other than possibly some cast or Rafe tweeting, or leaks from studio watchers or anonymous production staff, until January 6th.  Probably shouldn't expect the latter either, but it could happen and is more likely than @WoTonPrime tweeting anything promotional before then.

 

I reckon how much they care about the proximity of releasing potentially competing shows depends on how they plan to release the series, all at once, once a week, or three/four at once and then once a week.  And how much they care about amplifying Prime's brand generally vs amplifying the marketing for the individual shows.  If they release weekly, it's easier for them to keep eyeballs on the Prime app if one of them releases on, say, Fridays and the other releases on Sundays.  The Expanse is on its way out, too.  This will be its final season.  So Amazon might see an advantage in overlapping the releases, making it easier for their viewers already logged into the app for the Expanse to start watching their new Wheel of Time fantasy show.

[Elder_Haman]

8 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

WoT Wednesdays have been the first Wednesday of the month for a while now.  Probably shouldn't expect anything other than possibly some cast or Rafe tweeting, or leaks from studio watchers or anonymous production staff, until January 6th.  Probably shouldn't expect the latter either, but it could happen and is more likely than @WoTonPrime tweeting anything promotional before then.

 

I reckon how much they care about the proximity of releasing potentially competing shows depends on how they plan to release the series, all at once, once a week, or three/four at once and then once a week.  And how much they care about amplifying Prime's brand generally vs amplifying the marketing for the individual shows.  If they release weekly, it's easier for them to keep eyeballs on the Prime app if one of them releases on, say, Fridays and the other releases on Sundays.  The Expanse is on its way out, too.  This will be its final season.  So Amazon might see an advantage in overlapping the releases, making it easier for their viewers already logged into the app for the Expanse to start watching their new Wheel of Time fantasy show.

 

They've as much as said we aren't getting anything today. But they've also promised more frequent content drops. The other thing I've noticed is that the @WoTonPrime account has upped its engagement substantially since Tam's sword was released. 

 

I'm predicting we get one more little promotion like a costume reveal before a Christmas/New Year's actual bonafide teaser. Not trailer, mind you, teaser. Followed by a few more promotional drops and the trailer for the Super Bowl.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

They've as much as said we aren't getting anything today. But they've also promised more frequent content drops. The other thing I've noticed is that the @WoTonPrime account has upped its engagement substantially since Tam's sword was released. 

 

I'm predicting we get one more little promotion like a costume reveal before a Christmas/New Year's actual bonafide teaser. Not trailer, mind you, teaser. Followed by a few more promotional drops and the trailer for the Super Bowl.

I'm predicting it here and now; They'll drop a trailer on February 8th, 2021.
This would be the 6 year anniversary of Winter Dragon.

[mistborn82]

@ThrasymachusI'm guessing they'll do the two or three at once and then weekly because you want people hooked on your new show.

[Thrasymachus]

It really depends on whether they really do have more shooting to do in April for season one, even if it's just a few pickup shots.  I can't really see them splitting the season release, so if they do, then we won't see a release until at least a couple of months after they complete those scenes.  I also can't see them dropping an actual trailer more than about two months out from the season release.  I do think it's likely we'll get an actual release date/schedule announced this winter sometime, very likely done via a short teaser.  The holiday season always sees an uptick in marketing, so it's entirely possible we'll see something on the 23rd.  It just as likely to be something like shots of Loial in full costume, or something similar to the Winespring Inn bit or the sword reveal.  If there's anything at all.

 

And I don't think they'll do anything on February 8th.  There's no reason to draw attention to that travesty or honor it in any way.  They're better off ignoring it entirely and just sticking to their WoT Wednesday schedule and release something on the 3rd.

[SinisterDeath]

16 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

And I don't think they'll do anything on February 8th.  There's no reason to draw attention to that travesty or honor it in any way.  They're better off ignoring it entirely and just sticking to their WoT Wednesday schedule and release something on the 3rd.

That was a tongue in cheek prediction. ?
But it is worth nothing, Feb 3rd is a WoT Wednesday, and Feb 10th is the 2nd Wednesday of that month.
 

[Elder_Haman]

31 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

That was a tongue in cheek prediction. ?
But it is worth nothing, Feb 3rd is a WoT Wednesday, and Feb 10th is the 2nd Wednesday of that month.
 

And Feb. 7th is the Super Bowl.

[SinisterDeath]

11 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

And Feb. 7th is the Super Bowl.

Now THAT is a great point.
I also totally forgot that was coming up.

[Thrasymachus]

I dunno how much they'll try competing to get a Superbowl ad time slot.  Those suckers are expensive, a lot of the audience it would reach will be people who really don't care, and the most popular ones in any given year are the funny/meme-y ones or the overproduced narrative short dramas to sell beer or cars or insurance or something dumb like that.  They could get more bang for their marketing buck using cheaper, more targeted ads and promotional events in other venues.  Prime as a whole might buy a slot to advertise all their upcoming and returning series, and Wheel of Time would make an appearance in that.  But I'm not expecting, and would be a bit baffled by, a standalone Wheel of Time commercial during the Super Bowl.

 

I do agree that @WoTonPrime has been more active on Twitter than at any time since tEoTW re-read wrapped up with the Winespring Inn bit capping that off.  I dunno if it portends a soon-to-be upcoming release, though.  It feels more to me like they realized that if they've got another 6-9 months before they release the series, they'd need to up their social media engagement to help keep up excitement and interest among the book fans.  Most of @WoTonPrime's recent activity has been just that: re-tweeting first time readers and replying to fans to share excitement, or in the manner of a community manager who's not really in the loop or in charge of much, but has an official channel of communication to those that are.

 

I do find it somewhat fascinating that their media team didn't anticipate the underwhelmed and somewhat critical response by some fans to their teaser revealing Tam's sword, especially after something of a content desert between that and the previous teaser of the Winespring Inn.  I have to admit that my response to it was, "ok, that's cool and all, but when are we gonna see a scene from the series itself, or more of a trailer than a teaser, or tell us what month of 2021 the series will release in?" I don't really care about the criticism of the sword's appearance.  The bronze heron embedded in the hilt that brands Rand is likely in the other side than what they showed us.  And the crossguard issue the the epitome of something that doesn't really matter.  They may have simply used the samuri-style because it's easier to choreograph and wield for the actors, with the fighting choreography they'll be using.  I think the controversy over that stuff is really more of a proxy for fans wanting something a bit more informative and substantial regarding the series as a whole.  And possibly as a proxy for fans who are more upset about Rafe's aesthetic choices more generally, for less socially acceptable reasons.

 

Anyway, back to the topic of what this increased social media activity may be leading up to.  I reckon there's a decent chance that what it's actually leading up to is an announcement of the official green-light for season two, and another read-through, this time of The Great Hunt, as a means of giving fans something to occupy their time before they can actually confirm a release date for the first season or drop a real trailer.  The first one was pretty successful, and if they've got six to nine months before they're ready for the first real trailer to drop, about a month or two ahead of the release, it's kind of the perfect thing to keep everybody occupied and distracted, without having to give away the farm on increasingly revealing teasers every month.

[Elder_Haman]

25 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

I dunno how much they'll try competing to get a Superbowl ad time slot.  Those suckers are expensive, a lot of the audience it would reach will be people who really don't care, and the most popular ones in any given year are the funny/meme-y ones or the overproduced narrative short dramas to sell beer or cars or insurance or something dumb like that.  They could get more bang for their marketing buck using cheaper, more targeted ads and promotional events in other venues.  Prime as a whole might buy a slot to advertise all their upcoming and returning series, and Wheel of Time would make an appearance in that.  But I'm not expecting, and would be a bit baffled by, a standalone Wheel of Time commercial during the Super Bowl.

I absolutely see the logic here. And you're right, Super Bowl commercial air time is really expensive. On the other hand they're definitely going to want to grab as many eyeballs as they can. There are some "cheaper" places in the game as well as during the pre- and post- game where ads are less costly in comparison. If they wanted to be aggressive, they could buy quick 10 second blocks with a "stay tuned for the world premier trailer of..." type of thing and then drop the actual trailer in the first post-game slot when the cost really falls off. [This would be especially effective if you've already dropped a teaser trailer that people have seen]

 

25 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

Most of @WoTonPrime's recent activity has been just that: re-tweeting first time readers and replying to fans to share excitement, or in the manner of a community manager who's not really in the loop or in charge of much, but has an official channel of communication to those that are.

True. But the interactions have been cheeky. The kind of thing that WoT fans giggle at and share. Whether there is purpose behind it or not, it's better than it was.

 

25 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

II do find it somewhat fascinating that their media team didn't anticipate the underwhelmed and somewhat critical response by some fans to their teaser revealing Tam's sword, especially after something of a content desert between that and the previous teaser of the Winespring Inn.  I have to admit that my response to it was, "ok, that's cool and all, but when are we gonna see a scene from the series itself, or more of a trailer than a teaser, or tell us what month of 2021 the series will release in?"

100%. The connection between this and the new engagement on social media shouldn't be overlooked. Someone may have lost their job. Or someone may have been given new duties. Either way, they underestimated how thirsty this fandom is. 

 

25 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

I don't really care about the criticism of the sword's appearance.  The bronze heron embedded in the hilt that brands Rand is likely in the other side than what they showed us.  And the crossguard issue the the epitome of something that doesn't really matter.  They may have simply used the samuri-style because it's easier to choreograph and wield for the actors, with the fighting choreography they'll be using.  I think the controversy over that stuff is really more of a proxy for fans wanting something a bit more informative and substantial regarding the series as a whole.  And possibly as a proxy for fans who are more upset about Rafe's aesthetic choices more generally, for less socially acceptable reasons.

I agree with this too. I want the sets and costumes and weapons to look good and feel real. So long as they accomplish that with some reasonable resemblance to the book (it doesn't suddenly become a heron-marked pitchfork or a unicorn-marked sword), matching the exact details of the book simply isn't important enough to get worked up about.

 

25 minutes ago, Thrasymachus said:

Anyway, back to the topic of what this increased social media activity may be leading up to.  I reckon there's a decent chance that what it's actually leading up to is an announcement of the official green-light for season two, and another read-through, this time of The Great Hunt, as a means of giving fans something to occupy their time before they can actually confirm a release date for the first season or drop a real trailer.  The first one was pretty successful, and if they've got six to nine months before they're ready for the first real trailer to drop, about a month or two ahead of the release, it's kind of the perfect thing to keep everybody occupied and distracted, without having to give away the farm on increasingly revealing teasers every month.

I'm still disagreeing with you here, my friend. I'll stick to my rhetorical guns: Christmas/New Year's teaser, Super Bowl trailer, release of Season One between April and June 2021. (Bonus prediction: 1st two episodes release at once, followed by a weekly release for the last six.)

Edited December 10, 2020 by Elder_Haman

[Carebear Sedai]

Without news from the show itself there are two possibilities. 

 

1. The show has more or less finished principle photography in Czech Republic as Daniel Greene suggests. Daniel has known links to the show and I would expect his information is solid. Hence, I'm leaning towards this. Further proof is how posts made by the crew involving the end of production seemed to suggest wrap up of a season final rather than another Covid related shutdown. 

 

2. Significant amounts of filming is left for season one and will be resumed in the spring. This would mean they'll be filming season one well into summer as pre-production takes quite a bit of time. The fan news site that announced this seems to have contacted crew members. I'd consider this source less reliable as I don't believe they were told conclusively regarding the stage of principle photography left. We do, however, know that they had originally planned to film 6 extra weeks in Czech Republic, and according to YouTuber WoTUp's sources, filming was indeed interrupted and will resume in April. 

 

Both cases are possible. As WoTOnPrime hasn't addressed this, and no words of the interruption in production have made it to reliable industry news sites, it's really a wonder what is actually going on.

 

As the clock ticks, we'll be able to discern which case it is. 

 

Assuming it's case 1, then the show will likely release May or June 2021. The show should be ready by then, and more important to release, the timing sets them ahead of the big franchise projects set to hit theatres and streaming platforms later in the year. If this is the case, however, serious marketing for the show should start soon. My guess is that sometime between near Christmas and the end of January (after The Expanse's season 5 finale) we'll get real promotion. A poster, a teaser with actual show footage, something that involves the logo of the show along with show music. 

 

If come February and we've seen none of that, then it's highly unlikely 1 is the case. If no widespread promo by then, it's unlikely the show will be coming out by summer. 

 

If by March there's still zero real promotion, then I'll start to wonder if the show won't be likely to come out until 2022. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Carebear Sedai

[Elder_Haman]

On 12/12/2020 at 6:29 PM, Carebear Sedai said:

If by March there's still zero real promotion, then I'll start to wonder if the show won't be likely to come out until 2022. 

 

For what it's worth: Business Insider reports that WoT "is expected to debut in 2021."

 

UPDATE:

We just got this little tease from Priyanka Bose (Alanna Mosvani).

Edited December 18, 2020 by Elder_Haman

[Thrasymachus]

In other words, nothing new yet. 

 

I'm not holding out any real hope that there's gonna be any kind of meaningful teaser or info dump before Christmas.  It's possible they give us something the day before Christmas Eve, but I suspect that anybody high up enough to ok a release is also on their Christmas vacation.  More likely we get something on the 30th, but if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on something like the sword teaser on the 6th.  And still no news on when in 2021 we can expect the series to release.  The earliest I hope to see that is February or March, but I don't really expect it until May.

[Carebear Sedai]

I would only expect a meaningful teaser by the end of the year if the show is coming out this spring or early summer. For comparison, the new Netflix fantasy series Blood and Bone just released its teaser and its release is for April 2021. 

 

If the release ends up pushed much later into 2021, I do hope they'll still release a poster or something official by the end of winter. Amazon seems a bit lax with online promotion to me. The only shows I follow are The Expanse and Upload, and both have been through word of mouth. I don't even think The Expanse, as popular as it is, got very much promotion going into season 5. Maybe one trailer a month or so before its release date and that's about all I've come across through social media.

 

Edit - I just realized that Carnival Row finished filming before WoT and will likely be released earlier. From what I can tell they haven't had a trailer or teaser release yet, which crushes my hopes of seeing anything official for WoT until after that show has finished promotion and possibly even aired. I believe that's what they did with The Expanse, only released the season five trailer after The Boys season two had finished airing. It may be an Amazon model. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Carebear Sedai