Just for a chuckle

[agreddon]

Guess who didn't read the book.

 

https://www.distractify.com/p/the-wheel-of-time-cast

[Jaglover]

Aside from the obvious slip WOT also isn't a mediaeval world, it is an 18th century one, but without gunpowder weapons (until the end)

[Elaevia]

I did a double blink at that - I don't think they even read a wikipedia article let alone the books ?

[Polskija]

That sure made me cringe a bit. 

 

I've always thought WoT is more post apocalyptic than medieval.

 

Trying to timestamp clothes or weapons to real world would likely get you anything from 1000AD to 1600AD. 

[DemandredFO]

My guess is she saw the announcement about the showing featuring Moiraine as a central character and based everything on that. Granted Amazon might be just as happy with everyone confused as they want as many fans going in guessing who the Dragon Reborn. The person's boss, provided she's not just a blogger, cast be too happy though. All I can say is I hope Brandon wasn't drinking anything if that was pointed out to him

Edited August 18, 2019 by DemandredFO

[Jaglover]

13 hours ago, Polskija said:

That sure made me cringe a bit. 

 

I've always thought WoT is more post apocalyptic than medieval.

 

Trying to timestamp clothes or weapons to real world would likely get you anything from 1000AD to 1600AD. 

I am curious as to where you arrive at the early years for that. It is a world with printed books, widespread adult literacy, formal balls, horse drawn coaches etc etc

 

The lack of gunpowder weapons should not conceal the fact that very little of this society, or its technologies, would have existed before 1500. 

 

A good early mediaeval fantasy series for contrast is Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series.  

[Polskija]

1 hour ago, Jaglover said:

I am curious as to where you arrive at the early years for that. It is a world with printed books, widespread adult literacy, formal balls, horse drawn coaches etc etc

 

The lack of gunpowder weapons should not conceal the fact that very little of this society, or its technologies, would have existed before 1500. 

 

A good early mediaeval fantasy series for contrast is Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series.  

 

The early years are mostly because of the armor. People even in battles are mostly seen wearing chainmail and hardly any use plate armors and even Shienarans don't use full plate armors, which in our world became more and more prominent in 1200's and up. Earliest gunpowder weapons (as we see in books) were invented in 1000's. 

From what little I understand from clothing is what the women wear there are examples of high collared dresses of renaissance 1500 and later. 

 

edit: Sort of off-topic, but I'm also a bit frustrated with the lack of shields on the nations. A lot of them are using light armour and two handed weapons while bows and even (TR)longbows exist. Shields only started to leave the picture when armor could withstand arrows. 

People used armour and shields because they were efficient protection and if you had the money (as at least the lords and professional soldiers would have), you'd have the best protection you can afford when going into battle. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Polskija

[Jaglover]

30 minutes ago, Polskija said:

 

The early years are mostly because of the armor. People even in battles are mostly seen wearing chainmail and hardly any use plate armors and even Shienarans don't use full plate armors, which in our world became more and more prominent in 1200's and up. Earliest gunpowder weapons (as we see in books) were invented in 1000's. 

From what little I understand from clothing is what the women wear there are examples of high collared dresses of renaissance 1500 and later. 

 

edit: Sort of off-topic, but I'm also a bit frustrated with the lack of shields on the nations. A lot of them are using light armour and two handed weapons while bows and even (TR)longbows exist. Shields only started to leave the picture when armor could withstand arrows. 

People used armour and shields because they were efficient protection and if you had the money (as at least the lords and professional soldiers would have), you'd have the best protection you can afford when going into battle. 

 

Oh yes, the armour. I just think you have to bear in mind that many fantasy authors have little idea of medieval warfare. Armour is costume and never seems to have any bearing on the fighting. Unarmoured Aiel usually being untroubled by heavy cavalry is one of the glaring examples of this. 

 

The other flaw in the writing is the overpowering of projectile weapons.

 

The one thing that reads true in the battle descriptions is the importance of pikemen in good formation.   

Edited August 19, 2019 by Jaglover

[Polskija]

2 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

Oh yes, the armour. I just think you have to bear in mind that many fantasy authors have little idea of medieval warfare. Armour is costume and never seems to have any bearing on the fighting. Unarmoured Aiel usually being untroubled by heavy cavalry is one of the glaring examples of this. 

 

The other flaw in the writing is the overpowering of projectile weapons.

 

The one thing that reads true in the battle descriptions is the importance of pikemen in good formation.   

 

Bows would be effective in Wheel of time with the lack of heavy armor and shields. 

 

But I don't think RJ based Randland on any particular time. He took what he wanted from times and cultures he liked and used them as he wished. 

 

As I said, I couldn't put a timeframe for it. I view it post apocalyptic fantasy. 

[Jaglover]

15 minutes ago, Polskija said:

 

Bows would be effective in Wheel of time with the lack of heavy armor and shields. 

 

 

They would be effective just as they have been effective in many times in our history they just wouldn't be wiping out entire armies in minutes. Even the Mongols, with tens of thousands of horse archers, weren't as devastating as Mat's heavy crossbowmen, or the two rivers bowmen at times. There is a difference between being effective and being massively overpowered. 

[DojoToad]

Nice article, Gina. Next Pulitzer winner there. Don’t worry about minimal research or facts. Just go with how you feel...

[Polskija]

2 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

They would be effective just as they have been effective in many times in our history they just wouldn't be wiping out entire armies in minutes. Even the Mongols, with tens of thousands of horse archers, weren't as devastating as Mat's heavy crossbowmen, or the two rivers bowmen at times. There is a difference between being effective and being massively overpowered. 

 

The draw weight difference between a shortbow of mongol horseman and a war bow is from ~40lbs to 120+ lbs. Obviously the draw weights vary but english warbows were 120-200lbs and would pierce mail sometimes. 

 

Crossbows would have even higher but they lose momentum and bolt alignment after shorter distance and the bolts aren't as heavy as longbow arrows they used at war. 

 

Now, as you said, they wouldn't be as devastating as said if anyone used proper protection, but for some reason hardly anyone does. A longbowman can release some 10 aimed arrows a minute and especially from close range they would be deadly when protected by pikes. 

 

 

[SinisterDeath]

Heavy armored troops cost more coin, than lightly armored troops.
Randland basically went for big, lightly armored Armies, over heavily armored, smaller armies...

 

http://personal.ars-informatica.ca/paul/wot/wot.htm
This shows that Breastplates were fairly common in Randland.
Full plate armor, not so much.

 

That said, I've always pictured a large portion of the Seanchan as wearing some of the heaviest armor in Randland.

 

Something to contemplate is that the Two Rivers long bow is a relatively new concept for these people. Most of the standing generals thought the idea of training anyone that long to use a Long bow was silly. That you'd never get the numbers necessary for a bunch of Longbow archers to be effective. (and you'd have to pay them more!)

The majority of randlander armor is able to protect, relatively well from Aiel Bows, and other low draw weight bows used by other armies.

Combine this with a relative lack of war for the last 500-1000 years, with the last major conflict being a unifying fight against the Aiel. 
 

Contrast this with European history, where there was already a war every season in some part of Europe. Randland acts more like a 1 war a generation. This doesn't exactly spur innovation in Weapon/Armor Design. You have Aes Sedia constantly meddling to prevent wars, not create them. (So they act like the Pope in Europe)

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[DemandredFO]

Remember since the War of Power, society has been devolving so there are probably oddities all over the place. Also we don't actually know there's high literacy do we because we don't see a whole lot of people and place, population speaking do we?

[RDY]

On 8/19/2019 at 3:09 AM, Polskija said:

 

The early years are mostly because of the armor. People even in battles are mostly seen wearing chainmail and hardly any use plate armors and even Shienarans don't use full plate armors, which in our world became more and more prominent in 1200's and up. Earliest gunpowder weapons (as we see in books) were invented in 1000's. 

From what little I understand from clothing is what the women wear there are examples of high collared dresses of renaissance 1500 and later. 

 

edit: Sort of off-topic, but I'm also a bit frustrated with the lack of shields on the nations. A lot of them are using light armour and two handed weapons while bows and even (TR)longbows exist. Shields only started to leave the picture when armor could withstand arrows. 

People used armour and shields because they were efficient protection and if you had the money (as at least the lords and professional soldiers would have), you'd have the best protection you can afford when going into battle. 

 

Regarding the lack of shields:

 

Japanese warriors didn't use shields. Their amored sleeves (kote) were bigger to compensate that. So Randland is something like Japan not only in people using swords that look like katanas and sword forms that have outrageous names, but also in lacking shields (until the Legion of the Dragon uses pavises).

[RDY]

On 8/19/2019 at 8:57 AM, SinisterDeath said:

Heavy armored troops cost more coin, than lightly armored troops.
Randland basically went for big, lightly armored Armies, over heavily armored, smaller armies...

 

http://personal.ars-informatica.ca/paul/wot/wot.htm
This shows that Breastplates were fairly common in Randland.
Full plate armor, not so much.

 

That said, I've always pictured a large portion of the Seanchan as wearing some of the heaviest armor in Randland.

 

Something to contemplate is that the Two Rivers long bow is a relatively new concept for these people. Most of the standing generals thought the idea of training anyone that long to use a Long bow was silly. That you'd never get the numbers necessary for a bunch of Longbow archers to be effective. (and you'd have to pay them more!)

The majority of randlander armor is able to protect, relatively well from Aiel Bows, and other low draw weight bows used by other armies.

Combine this with a relative lack of war for the last 500-1000 years, with the last major conflict being a unifying fight against the Aiel. 
 

Contrast this with European history, where there was already a war every season in some part of Europe. Randland acts more like a 1 war a generation. This doesn't exactly spur innovation in Weapon/Armor Design. You have Aes Sedia constantly meddling to prevent wars, not create them. (So they act like the Pope in Europe)

 

 

I don't know how true it is that there's basically only one war each generation. Tam al'Thor served the Illian Companions by participating in many wars with Tear. And then he went to fight the Aiel at the Battle of Shining Walls.

Some nations seem to have conflict basically each generation, like Arad Doman x Tarabon, Tear x Illian, Tear x Cairhien, Cairhien x Andor, Amadicia x other people (the Whitecloak War).

Don't forget that the Borderlands also is in a state of constant conflict with the Blight, and Shienar apparently also with the Aiel (that's why Masema hated Rand at first).

My guess of why technology didn't seem to improve much until the end of the series was the theme that Wheel of Time had of decay. The Dark One's touch is getting stronger on the world / Pattern, and this is seen in large tracts of land becoming unihabitable (like the Caralain Grass). It's not that they become deserts, it's just that the crops fail and people can't live there anymore. The Compact of the 10 Nations was basically the technological and logistical peak of the Third Age. After that Mat notices that his memories have armies that become smaller. They become bigger again when Arthur Hawkwing united all the Westlands, but by the time the series starts the size of the armies is a fraction of what it was before, like comparing the Middle Ages with Antiquity. 

We also see that with the White Tower, with how empty it is compared to the centuries before, how people have forgotten a lot of weaves and what ter'angreal do or how to make them. It's a whole theme of decay that grows stronger until our main characters come to the rescue of the world.

[JJLXL]

 

On 8/19/2019 at 4:48 AM, Polskija said:

I view it post apocalyptic fantasy.

 

That it is.

 

This was literally a fantasy world setting that went through an apocalypse known as the time of madness.  I really hope we get to see flashes of the golden age.  I basically picture it as our world now, but with Magic users and all that entails. 

[mistborn82]

If they show Rand's pillar journey they will show flashes and maybe will LTT and Rand are having their tug of war. Perhaps also with Tuon if it gets that far because Seanchan clearly has more knowledge.