[Basic C9++] Murder Mystery Mafia D5

[monstrman]

fine no one wants to trashpost with me and have fun and trade garlic bread for my affection

 

forget all of you then

[Killashandra]

I make really chicken penne pasta but I always fake the garlic bread by buying a long bread loaf cutting it in half. Then apply butter, garlic and flecks of parsley for looks.

[monstrman]

I make really chicken penne pasta but I always fake the garlic bread by buying a long bread loaf cutting it in half. Then apply butter, garlic and flecks of parsley for looks.

it sounds delicious

[Cory Caboose]

hooooooooome

[Cory Caboose]

did DPR just call my play faux emo? XD

[monstrman]

corlbyyyyyy

 

am I being crazy irt tigraine

[Shad_]

im hungry

 

someone get me food

I have popsicles.

 

You may lick them.

[Shad_]

I kind of want to dust off some old Tigraine games because she seems to have picked up straight from the framework she left off in and her stats suggest people might have been able to read her decently on average even back when "meta" was a cuss word.

[Cory Caboose]

1. He flopped all over with his votes. I'd have to iso to say exactly how many times, but over the course of the day he pointed the finger at a majority of players. That's exactly what I do as thoughtful scum. By the time he lol voted Darthe, it looked pretty obvious to me he was working an angle. It felt like he had a slow-burn case building on Niniel over the course of the day, and I'm just going to put bussing on the table. He said over and over and over how well he knows her game. Other people were voting her. She was pretty much a no-show, then put in a token effort, then evaporated. It would be a ballsy move, but also a glory move. Glory moves jive with the level of confidence he's displaying.

Let's address this on multiple levels. "Flopped" being an intrinsically negative word (I would say "I moved my vote a few times") aside, why do you expect wolves to move their votes more than villagers? If I had a baseline guess on the 300+ long games of mafia I've played in my life, I would guess on average villagers probably vote more than wolves (someone can point specifically to the horde of DM games where mafia "stacked" the non-voter wagon XD). I remember voting... DPR, Darthe and then Niniel. Shad voted WBK, which I held for awhile out of respect for Shad, but I stand by all of those votes in general. The lynch is the biggest weapon the village has, and I tend to be someone who other players take seriously re: who I am pressuring. Probably because when I was young lad I had some talent for finding wolves. What is true is that I had bad feelings re: Niniel earlier than I made it obvious (and discussed it privately with Shad to some extent) for a few reasons - it was actually Kronos' villagery re-entrance that built a bubble of doubt for me on his lynch and made me press hard with my feelings re: Niniel. I still don't know exactly how I feel about Kronos, but that's for another time.

 

The major reason why I'm clear from the Niniel lynch is that I abhor bussing as a wolf and if I wanted, I could have easily swung the lynch to Kronos or Darthe (we can't all be wolves ;P). Calling "bussing" a glory play is not really how I feel about bussing - I think bussing is generally done by weak, low confidence wolves who feel they can't get townreads for pretending to be a villager. I'm a competitor - I want it it all. Glory for me is saving my wolfbros. Probably my favorite wolf accomplishment ever was in a game called 9 to 5 here at DM where I was paired with Turin who was incredibly wolfy the entire game and consistently pushed and I managed to save him every single game day by getting the lynch off him and onto a villager. That's "glory".

 

2.  Faux emo. I was surprised he got upset during our dust-up. I had to think about that and the only time I ever throw emo like that into the ring is if my plan is in danger of being ruined. Bros or no bros, it's undeniable that he enjoys a high level of influence over the game and players. Doesn't make him a good or bad person, I'm sure he's earned it. but it would be naive to let someone with that amount of influence actually use it to the degree that he seems to be - and it's bugged me all game because I've been there, done that, and led towns into losing games. Naturally, I'm not a big fan when I see anyone doing the same thing. I label it faux emo because as soon as I acknowledged that I was contributing to the fight, he snapped right back and picked up where he left off, no worse for the wear and no change in his play that would reflect having learned something. He just subtly backed off me and got on with the game.

From my experience of playing mafia [for a billion years], I have just always found teams that work together win far often than teams that don't - in either alignment. I hope my level of influence on the game is less about my personality and more just because people think I'm fair and a lot of people consider me a villager who typically makes stronger than average reads. I do have somewhat of a known proclivity of getting rattled during mafia games, but I certainly didn't get upset during our dust-up - just wanted you to know going down the road you were going down re: "handjob club" was probably going to earn you some less curt responses than you'd been receiving. This game has actually been a blast for me so far and as someone who hasn't played in a bit I'm sort of remembering the things I love about the game. As for me getting back to the game - I had 12 (now 11) slots to figure out, can't waste all my time trying to figure out one person :P we came to understanding and I didn't feel I needed to pursue it further.

 

3. His case on me fits with how he wants people to think I play, but not really how I believe I do. I'll defer that to folks that have played with me - I ain't gonna try and convince anyone. But two things that stuck out to me the most were how he tried to steer me away from looking at individuals - because I'm looking at him - and his criticism of my "less aggressive" play this game when I've been very clear that I wanted to avoid the mistakes that cost town the last game. It's the same thing I didn't like about Seph's comment.

 

See, I have very limited knowledge on how you play. I've specced you a few games and read some previous ones, but I don't have a wealth of knowledge on you the way I do on others. If you think it's a mischaracterization of you, I apologize for my ignorance, but I work with what I can see. Expecting me to know you better than you know yourself seems like a lofty expectation.

 

As for the "avoiding mistakes" bit, me and Shad discussed that briefly as a rationale for you being a villager. It's part of the reason why I ultimately abandoned that push and looked elsewhere.

 

4. He's referred to "deep wolves" multiple times. Thats always a ping for me. Especially on D1.

More a comment on my lower levels of trust on certain players who are being widely townread (Clovdyx, you) and a warning not to just ~clear them should I not be in the game later.

[Cory Caboose]

ty for obliging it felt good

[Cory Caboose]

corlbyyyyyy

 

am I being crazy irt tigraine

 

I haven't paid much attention to the you/Tigraine spat tbh

 

I'm going to read the thread again with Niniel's flip in mind so I'll update you as I go

[Kaylee]

 

I make really chicken penne pasta but I always fake the garlic bread by buying a long bread loaf cutting it in half. Then apply butter, garlic and flecks of parsley for looks.

it sounds delicious

Agreed. Reminds me I haven't made homemade Alfredo in a long time. Overdue

[ed2funy]

 

 

 

 

 

I personally feel of those three that you listed, Nin and then Darthe would be the best order. Then you. Then if y'all wanted to Lynch me to glean info.

Can you talk about Tress?

There's not a whole lot to talk about imo. She's not pushing or solving really.

I can't remember if that's her meta or not.

So, over Tress who's not pushing or solving, you'd lynch Niniel, Darthe and Seph?

Of the three he listed, yes, that's how I'd go.

Err... ed I really don't know what to do with you man. I don't feel like your really pushing any of your reads at all, and here unprompted you use my lynch list while just subbing out your name for mine instead of pushing your own.

 

A good example is how you have been sitting on Me this entire game. You never push to read me just occasion bring up that I am scummy and then drop it again.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL stfu Seph. I was literally replying to you RIGHT AFTER your post.

 

Also, I've explained my stance on you. I've pointed things out twice I didn't like but didn't have a hard on scum for you.

 

ed... my main good vibes come from his op, and his killa vote tbh. (though i did misread iron for something that was entirely scummy last game and i dismissed it) I think between him and niniel and darthe might be the most beneficial kill with the greatest chance of hitting mafia out of the active people.

 

[Cory Caboose]

Just a note: it's almost guaranteed that Niniel told her wolfbros to bus her very early in the game (or some sort of strategy re: her). I can tell you why, but it's going to sound egotistical (but it's probably right!)

 

So that's something I'm going to pay attention to - specfically people who have fake negative-leaning progressions on Niniel

[Sooh]

Just a note: it's almost guaranteed that Niniel told her wolfbros to bus her very early in the game (or some sort of strategy re: her). I can tell you why, but it's going to sound egotistical (but it's probably right!)

 

So that's something I'm going to pay attention to - specfically people who have fake negative-leaning progressions on Niniel

Because she thought you'd be able to read her and figure her out and she wanted her mates to look good?

 

If not, correct me lol

[Cory Caboose]

 

Just a note: it's almost guaranteed that Niniel told her wolfbros to bus her very early in the game (or some sort of strategy re: her). I can tell you why, but it's going to sound egotistical (but it's probably right!)

 

So that's something I'm going to pay attention to - specfically people who have fake negative-leaning progressions on Niniel

Because she thought you'd be able to read her and figure her out and she wanted her mates to look good?

 

If not, correct me lol

 

 

The last two times I've been a villager and niniel has been town:

 

Post #13 in World's end mafia QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/uxBUBQENx7vEq

Tina

12-25-2015

03:00 PM ET (US)

Cory will figure me out in a day or two but that´s just how it is.

 

Post #37 in Ragnarok, explaining to a teammate why she is bussing them in her reads list: https://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/TNJvUEJiaMyY

 

Tina Sundström

08-31-2015

01:24 PM ET (US)

As Cory said, he will definitely find out that I´m mafia. That is one of the reasons I have you in my mafia list. But I think people will focus more on you if you don´t post any clear reads. It looks a bit "fluffy" right now. Now, maybe you usally play that way? If so then it´s okay. I´m connecting you to Ocicat. If he get´s lynched and shown town then it might look better for you. Not sure if I´m doing this right.

 

If I´m alive by night I want to kill Cory. I´m sorry that he rarely outlives N1 but he will definitely find me out. :(

 

I promise this isn't an ego stroke (I acknowledge I have the worst personality of all time and I have no idea why any of you put up with me) but just a reminder that Niniel will 100% push teammates and encourage her team to bus her if she feels it'll help her team. So, idk, don't be fooled by shallow bussing plays or anything like that - Tina is a smart player and knows how to put a strategy together.

 

I feel like I have to say this because a lot of people are clearing Ed. I don't have a really solid read on Ed yet (I'm not saying he's mafia), but if he has some weak 1v1 with Niniel that isn't necessarily a positive sign.

[Cory Caboose]

I've been a villager and Niniel has been a wolf**

 

where's that proofreader

[Sooh]

Makes sense and could be. Would she start the "Bus me" thing before you've really caught her scent though? 

[Cory Caboose]

Again, I love Niniel, but she didn't expect to be alive very long this game (and I imagine most of her ~d1 was her trying to buy time). I would imagine she wanted to help her team in any way she could, even through misdirection (specifically bussing)

[Cory Caboose]

Makes sense and could be. Would she start the "Bus me" thing before you've really caught her scent though? 

 

She made the particularly post in the World's End Mafia QT before the game started.

[Sooh]

Well then. That's different. Another question is: Would Ed specifically go for it?

[Clovdyx]

 

1. He flopped all over with his votes. I'd have to iso to say exactly how many times, but over the course of the day he pointed the finger at a majority of players. That's exactly what I do as thoughtful scum. By the time he lol voted Darthe, it looked pretty obvious to me he was working an angle. It felt like he had a slow-burn case building on Niniel over the course of the day, and I'm just going to put bussing on the table. He said over and over and over how well he knows her game. Other people were voting her. She was pretty much a no-show, then put in a token effort, then evaporated. It would be a ballsy move, but also a glory move. Glory moves jive with the level of confidence he's displaying.

Let's address this on multiple levels. "Flopped" being an intrinsically negative word (I would say "I moved my vote a few times") aside, why do you expect wolves to move their votes more than villagers? If I had a baseline guess on the 300+ long games of mafia I've played in my life, I would guess on average villagers probably vote more than wolves (someone can point specifically to the horde of DM games where mafia "stacked" the non-voter wagon XD). I remember voting... DPR, Darthe and then Niniel. Shad voted WBK, which I held for awhile out of respect for Shad, but I stand by all of those votes in general. The lynch is the biggest weapon the village has, and I tend to be someone who other players take seriously re: who I am pressuring. Probably because when I was young lad I had some talent for finding wolves. What is true is that I had bad feelings re: Niniel earlier than I made it obvious (and discussed it privately with Shad to some extent) for a few reasons - it was actually Kronos' villagery re-entrance that built a bubble of doubt for me on his lynch and made me press hard with my feelings re: Niniel. I still don't know exactly how I feel about Kronos, but that's for another time.

 

The major reason why I'm clear from the Niniel lynch is that I abhor bussing as a wolf and if I wanted, I could have easily swung the lynch to Kronos or Darthe (we can't all be wolves ;P). Calling "bussing" a glory play is not really how I feel about bussing - I think bussing is generally done by weak, low confidence wolves who feel they can't get townreads for pretending to be a villager. I'm a competitor - I want it it all. Glory for me is saving my wolfbros. Probably my favorite wolf accomplishment ever was in a game called 9 to 5 here at DM where I was paired with Turin who was incredibly wolfy the entire game and consistently pushed and I managed to save him every single game day by getting the lynch off him and onto a villager. That's "glory".

 

2.  Faux emo. I was surprised he got upset during our dust-up. I had to think about that and the only time I ever throw emo like that into the ring is if my plan is in danger of being ruined. Bros or no bros, it's undeniable that he enjoys a high level of influence over the game and players. Doesn't make him a good or bad person, I'm sure he's earned it. but it would be naive to let someone with that amount of influence actually use it to the degree that he seems to be - and it's bugged me all game because I've been there, done that, and led towns into losing games. Naturally, I'm not a big fan when I see anyone doing the same thing. I label it faux emo because as soon as I acknowledged that I was contributing to the fight, he snapped right back and picked up where he left off, no worse for the wear and no change in his play that would reflect having learned something. He just subtly backed off me and got on with the game.

From my experience of playing mafia [for a billion years], I have just always found teams that work together win far often than teams that don't - in either alignment. I hope my level of influence on the game is less about my personality and more just because people think I'm fair and a lot of people consider me a villager who typically makes stronger than average reads. I do have somewhat of a known proclivity of getting rattled during mafia games, but I certainly didn't get upset during our dust-up - just wanted you to know going down the road you were going down re: "handjob club" was probably going to earn you some less curt responses than you'd been receiving. This game has actually been a blast for me so far and as someone who hasn't played in a bit I'm sort of remembering the things I love about the game. As for me getting back to the game - I had 12 (now 11) slots to figure out, can't waste all my time trying to figure out one person :P we came to understanding and I didn't feel I needed to pursue it further.

 

3. His case on me fits with how he wants people to think I play, but not really how I believe I do. I'll defer that to folks that have played with me - I ain't gonna try and convince anyone. But two things that stuck out to me the most were how he tried to steer me away from looking at individuals - because I'm looking at him - and his criticism of my "less aggressive" play this game when I've been very clear that I wanted to avoid the mistakes that cost town the last game. It's the same thing I didn't like about Seph's comment.

 

See, I have very limited knowledge on how you play. I've specced you a few games and read some previous ones, but I don't have a wealth of knowledge on you the way I do on others. If you think it's a mischaracterization of you, I apologize for my ignorance, but I work with what I can see. Expecting me to know you better than you know yourself seems like a lofty expectation.

 

As for the "avoiding mistakes" bit, me and Shad discussed that briefly as a rationale for you being a villager. It's part of the reason why I ultimately abandoned that push and looked elsewhere.

 

4. He's referred to "deep wolves" multiple times. Thats always a ping for me. Especially on D1.

More a comment on my lower levels of trust on certain players who are being widely townread (Clovdyx, you) and a warning not to just ~clear them should I not be in the game later.

 

 

huehuehuehue

[Cory Caboose]

Well then. That's different. Another question is: Would Ed specifically go for it?

 

I'm currently going over Ed's progression on Niniel to see if I feel it's geniune or not actually

[DPR]

 

1. He flopped all over with his votes. I'd have to iso to say exactly how many times, but over the course of the day he pointed the finger at a majority of players. That's exactly what I do as thoughtful scum. By the time he lol voted Darthe, it looked pretty obvious to me he was working an angle. It felt like he had a slow-burn case building on Niniel over the course of the day, and I'm just going to put bussing on the table. He said over and over and over how well he knows her game. Other people were voting her. She was pretty much a no-show, then put in a token effort, then evaporated. It would be a ballsy move, but also a glory move. Glory moves jive with the level of confidence he's displaying.

Let's address this on multiple levels. "Flopped" being an intrinsically negative word (I would say "I moved my vote a few times") aside, why do you expect wolves to move their votes more than villagers? If I had a baseline guess on the 300+ long games of mafia I've played in my life, I would guess on average villagers probably vote more than wolves (someone can point specifically to the horde of DM games where mafia "stacked" the non-voter wagon XD). I remember voting... DPR, Darthe and then Niniel. Shad voted WBK, which I held for awhile out of respect for Shad, but I stand by all of those votes in general. The lynch is the biggest weapon the village has, and I tend to be someone who other players take seriously re: who I am pressuring. Probably because when I was young lad I had some talent for finding wolves. What is true is that I had bad feelings re: Niniel earlier than I made it obvious (and discussed it privately with Shad to some extent) for a few reasons - it was actually Kronos' villagery re-entrance that built a bubble of doubt for me on his lynch and made me press hard with my feelings re: Niniel. I still don't know exactly how I feel about Kronos, but that's for another time.

 

The major reason why I'm clear from the Niniel lynch is that I abhor bussing as a wolf and if I wanted, I could have easily swung the lynch to Kronos or Darthe (we can't all be wolves ;P). Calling "bussing" a glory play is not really how I feel about bussing - I think bussing is generally done by weak, low confidence wolves who feel they can't get townreads for pretending to be a villager. I'm a competitor - I want it it all. Glory for me is saving my wolfbros. Probably my favorite wolf accomplishment ever was in a game called 9 to 5 here at DM where I was paired with Turin who was incredibly wolfy the entire game and consistently pushed and I managed to save him every single game day by getting the lynch off him and onto a villager. That's "glory".

 

2.  Faux emo. I was surprised he got upset during our dust-up. I had to think about that and the only time I ever throw emo like that into the ring is if my plan is in danger of being ruined. Bros or no bros, it's undeniable that he enjoys a high level of influence over the game and players. Doesn't make him a good or bad person, I'm sure he's earned it. but it would be naive to let someone with that amount of influence actually use it to the degree that he seems to be - and it's bugged me all game because I've been there, done that, and led towns into losing games. Naturally, I'm not a big fan when I see anyone doing the same thing. I label it faux emo because as soon as I acknowledged that I was contributing to the fight, he snapped right back and picked up where he left off, no worse for the wear and no change in his play that would reflect having learned something. He just subtly backed off me and got on with the game.

From my experience of playing mafia [for a billion years], I have just always found teams that work together win far often than teams that don't - in either alignment. I hope my level of influence on the game is less about my personality and more just because people think I'm fair and a lot of people consider me a villager who typically makes stronger than average reads. I do have somewhat of a known proclivity of getting rattled during mafia games, but I certainly didn't get upset during our dust-up - just wanted you to know going down the road you were going down re: "handjob club" was probably going to earn you some less curt responses than you'd been receiving. This game has actually been a blast for me so far and as someone who hasn't played in a bit I'm sort of remembering the things I love about the game. As for me getting back to the game - I had 12 (now 11) slots to figure out, can't waste all my time trying to figure out one person :P we came to understanding and I didn't feel I needed to pursue it further.

 

3. His case on me fits with how he wants people to think I play, but not really how I believe I do. I'll defer that to folks that have played with me - I ain't gonna try and convince anyone. But two things that stuck out to me the most were how he tried to steer me away from looking at individuals - because I'm looking at him - and his criticism of my "less aggressive" play this game when I've been very clear that I wanted to avoid the mistakes that cost town the last game. It's the same thing I didn't like about Seph's comment.

 

See, I have very limited knowledge on how you play. I've specced you a few games and read some previous ones, but I don't have a wealth of knowledge on you the way I do on others. If you think it's a mischaracterization of you, I apologize for my ignorance, but I work with what I can see. Expecting me to know you better than you know yourself seems like a lofty expectation.

 

As for the "avoiding mistakes" bit, me and Shad discussed that briefly as a rationale for you being a villager. It's part of the reason why I ultimately abandoned that push and looked elsewhere.

 

4. He's referred to "deep wolves" multiple times. Thats always a ping for me. Especially on D1.

More a comment on my lower levels of trust on certain players who are being widely townread (Clovdyx, you) and a warning not to just ~clear them should I not be in the game later.

 

 

 

Agreed on very much enjoying the game. Also agreed on the idea of glory. Cheers. 

 

I've listed my thoughts and you've responded. Good enough. I don't think I'm ever going to see flopping/moving votes as anything but trying to steer the game and your comments regarding how easily you could have pushed the lynch in another direction is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It's just too easy for someone with that level of influence to get away with steering the town wrong, and sooner or later you'll have to make the choice of either not influencing the town (which will be a dead giveaway) or you'll steer to a win, it's just a matter of when.

 

The colorful expressions are something I do on JN. No offense. Believe me, it gets all kinds of more creative over there and the sh*t is funny. 

 

At this point I'm most interested in getting into D2 to firm up reads rather than re-hashing. I'll re-read and see if I can't connect some dots, but how well players keep their focus will be more telling.  

[Cory Caboose]

 It's just too easy for someone with that level of influence to get away with steering the town wrong

I try my very very best to not do this, but it is essentially an educated guessing game