Got a question for ya...

[kittydesmond]

I been catching snippets in these threads about Rand being in moridins body or some such...where the heck did that come from? and what sort of theory is it involved in? Could someone help me understand why people think this?

[Lucivar SaDiablo]

At the end of book 7 Rand and Mordrin crossed Balefire and it had an adverse reaction. The theory is that act linked the two of them. Mordrin is the face Rand keeps seeing.

[JakeBarnes]

I'd like to add that we also have precedence for this in the Slayer combination of Luc/Isam, though we don't know how that happened.

 

It also fits with various other viewings that Min and others have had.

[sunking]

I think that they can see or sense what is going around the both of them. Remember that rand was looking in a mirror one time and saw moridin but he was suprised that rand noticed him and disapeared. I think rand doesn know this yet but i think moridin knows. Maybe thats one of the reasons that he doesnt want rand to get hurt. Hurting rand may hurt him in some way. I doubt it though. but i dont think they have the same body.

 

poor rand. He has not 2 but 3 voices in his head now. I have trouble with one. =)

[Kadere]

In KoD Rand sees the face more clearly and recognizes it as the man he met in Shadar Logoth at the end of ACoS. In that same passage RJ explains pretty much what we all suspected about them both "entering" each other so that they both know what the other is doing. This is all right before the Trollocs show up and get wasted.

[Ilyena]

The theory is that since rand is supposed to die and live again, and that seanchan chick is supposed to help him die, he will switch bodies with moridin (through the link that was established) leaving LTT and Moridin to fight in his old, crippled body, whihc the Seanchan kills.

[Sweet 666]

Whos to say that Rand will leave his body at all. I think that it is a possibility that LTT will somehow be expelled from Rands body and take over Moridin's. Enabling Rand and LTT to face the dark one together two dragons, two swords to cut down the DOs cause, two of the greatest male channlers to ever live! 8)

[Luckers]

That Rands body is going to die, and that Rand himself is most likely going to survive that death in some manner, has been well established. There has been countless prophecies, vision and dreams saying this through out the book. This suggestion is to date the only really viable explanation for how this might happen, because the visions definately say 'die' and not 'fake his own death'.

[kittydesmond]

OK, I see where you are all going with this...it just seems a shame to me that rand would have to exsist in a forsakens body.... I like your idea Sweet.

 

I appreciate all the input and thank you.

[Fryn]

There are quite a few other hints scattered through the books, though most have been mentioned.

 

The first was a dream Rand had in one of the earlier books (While the dreams was likely about Rahvin, Balel, and Ishmael fighting). It could have easily been Rand seening a future of him self first arguing with LTT and both turning on Moridin when he appeared in the dream.

 

The second is Min's vision of seeing two people fighting over Rand's body and only one surviving. Rand's belief that it was Rand and LTT always seemed too easy to me. At first I thought it might be the dual wound Rand has fighting itself, but it likely is some reference to moridin and Rand (or LTT).

 

The third was the two balefires merging and the sickness it caused in both Rand and Moridin (KoD proves Mordin is having the sickness at the very least when rand gets a hold of saidin). And since it seems Mordin has dizy spells when Rand takes the source it might also explain while occasionly Rand has boughts when not channeling. Maybe that's when Mordin is embracing the source.

 

The forth is the second person Rand keeps seeing at random times and seems to be aware of Rand (In KoD it was revealed to be Mordin though before it was a good guess).

 

Lastly was when Rand faced Semirhage Mordin channeled the True Source through Rand. And at the same time gave Rand the starting stage of the S'aa (Though apparently at a much progressed level since his vision is blurry all the time though doesn't have the black specks constantly traveling across his eyes).

 

Haven't seen any reference to this on the boards but my reasonings are as follow. It is why both Rand and LTT were grasping for the source but neither could reach it, since Mordin already had hold of the true source. Also the reference of the black specks across his vision when he first regains conciousness are too much like how they are discribed during Mordin's PoV. My only question in this is whether Rand was simply knocked unconcious or whether Mordin displaced him while channeling. Though my guess is Mordin only channeled enough to stop more than Rand's hand from being damaged. Though I have the feeling if Mordin sees semrihage again he won't be too pleased with her :P

 

Since the Finn's say he has a chance to live if he dies, and Rand's blood is needed to be spilled on Dragonmount to win the last battle, it is very likely that Rand will end out in Mordin's body after the battle given the references that show the two men linked. At least that's why it will likely be Mordin's body not Rand's.

[Jellybelly]

Lastly was when Rand faced Semirhage Mordin channeled the True Source through Rand. And at the same time gave Rand the starting stage of the S'aa

No' date=' he didn't.

 

It is why both Rand and LTT were grasping for the source but neither could reach it, since Mordin already had hold of the true source.

It says in clear text that they jostled each other.

[Artemis]

Im so sick of the theory of the saa going through Rands eyes after the Semi battle!

THERE NOT SAA!!! Nynaeve says she feels something wrong with his eyes after delving and Rand sees dark spots because hes eyes get a light overload by the fireball!

Nobody else sees the spots in Rands eyes!!! Only Rand himself because of his brain interpreting the signals from his stunned eyes!

[Siswaiaman]

Ditto that. Everyone had dark spots when they get hit in the head according to the series.

 

BTW, Fryn, the viewing says that the two will meld and become the same man/body, and she pretty much describes LTT.

Along with the Saa theory, Fryn what are you smoking?

[Luckers]

Actually siswai'aman, she said that they would merge, and that one would die from the merging. I also felt that rand assumption that it was LTT was a little too easy.

[Fryn]

Well I'll admit I'm probably be wrong about the Saa. Though its not as simple as saying no one else sees black specks in his eyes.

 

Throughout the series it has been revealed that the saa are only always present after the user has used the true power many many times. Before that they are only present while it is being used (and just after), and since no one was looking at Rand's eyes when he was seeing them. You can't simply discount it because no one else noticed them. About Nynaeve saying something is wrong with his eyes, that doesn't prove it one way or another unless she also delves say Mordin who has definitely had his eye sight permanently damaged by channeling the true source. Who is to say whether the first stage is blurry vision (Though a flash from fire is likely the cause, I just assumed that would be something that would be easy to cure since it isn't an uncommon injury, plus since Aes Sedai say most things except death are cureable my guess is blindness is one of the things they can cure). Also it doesn't mention his head being hurt at all, let alone being hit in the head hard so that doesn't explain the specks either.

 

The last reason would be the forsaken stating the risks of loosing yourself while channeling the true source, and Rand took a moment to regain himself after waking up. Although that is the weakest branch since that is very common when being knocked unconcious. It is however very much how Rand felt when he was learning to channel and almost lost himself as well (Channeling TEOTW and with the two sa' angrel for the first time).

 

That's where I was coming from at least it wasn't a simple he sees black specks so he must have channeled the true source. Either way I'll agree there isn't enough proof to say he channeled, but given the connection between the two I'll wait till the last book to say he didn't either.

 

 

As for the two men melding into one. Min can't see either face which always struck me as odd. It might easily be LTT/Rand, but as I said that always seemed too easy. The third man references in the series always struck me as being important, and have always wondered why none of the prophecies/visions seem to mention it. Though of all the visions this one seems to fit it the closest.

 

As for what I'm smoking I reread the series looking for every connection I could find between Rand/Ishmael. Which probably sways me a bit (Just a tad :P ).

[Luckers]

It seems extremely unlikely that Rand channeled the True Power at that moment, or that moridin channeled it through him. For one thing we have it from Moridin that the Saa do not hurt your vision. Secondly, what did he do... he did not stop Semirhage, or shield her to keep her from fleeing, or anything else. If he did do something it would have to be before he was hit by the fireball... and nothing occured in those moments but him being his by the fireball.

 

As for the evidence for, Rand gathered himself because he had just had his hand blown off, the fact that Nynaeve didn't heal his eyes doesn't mean that she couldn't because she doesn't try, out fear that the eyes may be finicky, and she could damage them in trying to do something. The actual blurryness came from the fact that a fireball exploded barely an arms length away from his face and he was looking right at it. It would be odd if he didn't have eye damage. And finally, there is no evidence that such a thing would at all be possible through the link. It took LTT 11 books to finally channel through Rand. Moridin and Rand have only been joined for 4, and only been aware for maybe one, 2 at the most.

[Artemis]

Its good to see we agree in some thing Luckers :lol:

we aint all that different after all

[Luckers]

Dude, your learning. You can't argue with us crack takers... its like arguing with a force of nature. An innefectual, poorly dressed force of nature.

[Kaznen]

Something that nobady has also pointed out in Rand's battle with Semi is that he came in on a horse, then was on the ground. it's possible that the reason he's seeing those spots is not only did see a bright flash in front of is face but he also got a possible concussion falling off his horse.

 

I've had two concussions in my life, and while I don't remember the time from right before to several hours after I do remember feeling dizzy and barley able to stand when I can remember; and, I have been crack in the head several times. And did see stars when that happened

[Luckers]

Whilst i don't doubt that rand recieved a concusion from the whole experience, he wasn't on horseback. He and the others dismount right about the time Nynaeve detects Semirhages channeling. They cover the discussion about it in fiddling with the horses, and then they walk on leaving the horses behind.

[Kaznen]

I stand corrected. But he was still blown off his feet, and I doupt he had a soft landing.

[Luckers]

Definately not. There are cases of people organs being liquified by an explosion, whilst Rands wasn't that strong, it was surely enough to give him a concusion.

[Almearafan]

I don't believe that Rand has Saa, but I have been trying to figure out what will happen if the shift of Rand's soul to Moridin's body really occurs. Will Rand then have Saa? I don't think so and here's why...

Spritually speaking, anything having to do with channeling the power isn't tied only to a persons genetics and gender, it's also tied to their soul. (my opinion...can't back it up with quoted text).

 

If Rand goes into Moridin's body and Moridin abandons ship to Rand's body (or something like that) the Saa will most likely go with him leaving Rand's new physical eyes Saa free due to the fact that his soul has never channeled the True Source.

 

This of course would also take care of the hand issue as well, however; in my earlier post under 'Rand's Hand' I stated that I'm not a big fan of the switching bodies theory. Only person who knows how this will work out for sure though is Jordan.

 

Any thoughts or opinions on this?

 

Later

[Bob T Dwarf]

The final stages of the use of TP are the flaming eyes and mouth that Ba'alzamon exhibited. When he died, his eyes and mouth were burned out pits. Nothing spiritual about that.

 

From that I can only conclude that the saa is a physical manifestation. Meaning that if you're in a body that has used TP, you will have saa in your eyes.

[Siswaiaman]

Even if rand had channeled TP, wouldnt he feel it now?