A 3rd Sa' angreal?

[Guest Two Moons]

probably something from the Age of Legends.... probably lost.

[boli]

I have a feeling the RoT is going to be one of those things which has been in plain sight for the entire series. It is mentioned in the prolgue, and has a reference in the glossary.

 

Even something as silly as being part of the Amerlyn seat itself (the actual chair).

[fionwe1987]

I have a feeling the RoT is going to be one of those things which has been in plain sight for the entire series. It is mentioned in the prolgue, and has a reference in the glossary.

 

Even something as silly as being part of the Amerlyn seat itself (the actual chair).

Actually, the Dream ter'angreal would make perfect sense for this. It has been in plain sight, and came from Verin, who is the greatest "secret in plain sight" that RJ planted to date.

 

Incidentally, who has the original ring now? I know Siuan (the former Amyrlin) was using it. Presumably, it was given to Elayne to copy once Sheriam stole the others?

 

One argument against it being the Ring of Tamyrlin is that "Silvie" saw Egwene wear it in the Stone's reflection in TAR. However, she may have just assumed it was one of the weaker copies, and Egwene wasn't translucent because she was an actual Dreamer.

 

If it is the RoT, maybe it grants you special powers in TAR. We know that you are translucent if you use weaker ter'angreal or come there only lightly while being half awake in the real world. What if a real Dreamwalker wearing the Ring can be very strongly in TAR without actually being there in the flesh? That might certainly be useful.

 

As for female sa'angreal as strong as, or in the same league as Callandor, I always thought Vora's sa'angreal counted. It certainly seems powerful, and its association with Egwene/the Amyrlin is telling.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Vora's sa'angreal is not as strong as Callandor. It is mentioned that Callandor could destroy a whole city. Vora's sa'angreal is said to only be able to bring down the walls of Tar Valon. Not the most accurate comparison, but Callandor is definitely implied to be stronger.

[TristanWebb]

The walls of Tar Valon are infused with the power though, so you need to consider which city it was talking about.

 

Also, ToM says Elayne got the secret to making rings that were as good as the original.

[Luckers]

I have a feeling the RoT is going to be one of those things which has been in plain sight for the entire series. It is mentioned in the prolgue, and has a reference in the glossary.

 

Even something as silly as being part of the Amerlyn seat itself (the actual chair).

Actually, the Dream ter'angreal would make perfect sense for this. It has been in plain sight, and came from Verin, who is the greatest "secret in plain sight" that RJ planted to date.

 

Incidentally, who has the original ring now? I know Siuan (the former Amyrlin) was using it. Presumably, it was given to Elayne to copy once Sheriam stole the others?

 

One argument against it being the Ring of Tamyrlin is that "Silvie" saw Egwene wear it in the Stone's reflection in TAR. However, she may have just assumed it was one of the weaker copies, and Egwene wasn't translucent because she was an actual Dreamer.

 

If it is the RoT, maybe it grants you special powers in TAR. We know that you are translucent if you use weaker ter'angreal or come there only lightly while being half awake in the real world. What if a real Dreamwalker wearing the Ring can be very strongly in TAR without actually being there in the flesh? That might certainly be useful.

 

As for female sa'angreal as strong as, or in the same league as Callandor, I always thought Vora's sa'angreal counted. It certainly seems powerful, and its association with Egwene/the Amyrlin is telling.

 

The original ring is with Aviendha. Siuan/Egwene stating that the original had been lost along with the others taken by Mesaana is a continuity error that was, I believe, fixed in later editions of tGS.

 

The walls of Tar Valon are infused with the power though, so you need to consider which city it was talking about.

 

Also, ToM says Elayne got the secret to making rings that were as good as the original.

 

This wasn't planned originally, but was done to fix the huge continuity error that was the Dream Battle. I sympathise with Maria on that one--nothing short of a massive re-write would have fixed that mistake adequately, which was out of the question. Maria simply did the best she could with what she had.

 

This is probably the strongest reason for me to support the delay for extra revision with aMoL.

[FarShainMael]

The original ring is with Aviendha.

 

My word, so it is:

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/books/kod/ch15.html

 

This throws a whole new light on Nakomi!

[boli]

Women can identify Angreal with ease; and men can identify male Angreal.. but does that mean female channelers will *not* be able to indentify a male Angreal? The tower could be hlding any number of Angreal and Sa'Angreal for men without realising it!

 

 

 

Anyways... I'm of the opinion that the Ring of Tameriyn acts as a Sa'Angreal for BOTH men and women, two Sa'Angreal rings twisted together (see image) but it can only be used for both within a circle; emphasising the co-operation needed between the sexs and a perfect symbol of Aes Sedai power.

 

Of course this ruins any theory I have of it being in plain sight; but it wouldn't surprise me to see the RoT mentioned again in rand's PoV at the least in the final book.

[Tyzack]

Of course this ruins any theory I have of it being in plain sight; but it wouldn't surprise me to see the RoT mentioned again in rand's PoV at the least in the final book.

 

Yeah, he'd probably be able to regonize it now.

[fikkie77]

Women can identify Angreal with ease; and men can identify male Angreal.. but does that mean female channelers will *not* be able to indentify a male Angreal? The tower could be hlding any number of Angreal and Sa'Angreal for men without realising it!

 

 

 

Anyways... I'm of the opinion that the Ring of Tameriyn acts as a Sa'Angreal for BOTH men and women, two Sa'Angreal rings twisted together (see image) but it can only be used for both within a circle; emphasising the co-operation needed between the sexs and a perfect symbol of Aes Sedai power.

 

Of course this ruins any theory I have of it being in plain sight; but it wouldn't surprise me to see the RoT mentioned again in rand's PoV at the least in the final book.

women with a Talent for recognising *angreal are able to recognise male angreal. Wasn't there a male angreal among the Ebou Dar stash?

[fikkie77]

The original ring is with Aviendha.

 

My word, so it is:

 

http://encyclopaedia...s/kod/ch15.html

 

This throws a whole new light on Nakomi!

how does that throw a new light on Nakomi?

[yoniy0]

how does that throw a new light on Nakomi?

By explaining a mechanism by which she might've entered TAR without realizing it, if I could hazard a guess. It's a stretch, considering she's been there before and would most likely recognize it, but it's still something.

[Luckers]

The original ring is with Aviendha.

 

My word, so it is:

 

http://encyclopaedia...s/kod/ch15.html

 

This throws a whole new light on Nakomi!

how does that throw a new light on Nakomi?

 

I'm also not entirely sure, but beyond Yoni's suggestion, maybe possible interaction between the ring and a portal stone similar to what occurred in Egwene's testing?

[FarShainMael]

My feeling is that the twisted ring certainly contributes something to that scene, though it may not explain it entirely. Will take this to the appropriate thread.

 

ETA:

herid beat me to it by about a year..

[TheAngryDruid]

I think the Ring of Tamyrlin and the item that Nyneave and Elayne found with need in the WT storerooms are both good guesses, but both may have issues, not insurmountable, with gender usage.

 

As others have said, it would be odd for the Ring to be a male sa'angreal. Though perhaps a sa'angreal that both sexes can use. Still, no hint of that in any PoV from LTT, Rand, or any Forsaken we've seen.

 

Ditto for the Need item at the WT. Doubt AS would have misidentified at male sa'angreal as a female one. No chance there. Perhaps as a ter'angreal they couldn't figure out, but again, they'd have had to use saidar to get it to work, to it would have to be a ter'angreal that works for both, and we are back in the same boat as above.

[Maleshub]

I wonder if Aviendha had the twisted ring on her when she entered the columns. If she did, then we don't see any clear impact like Egwene's testing. So, the columns would not be similar to that terangreal. The columns would not be simply reflections of other worlds where events played out differently.

 

Or maybe the columns are too vast to be affected structurally by the ring. But their visions might be affected.

 

Just a bunch of questions and thoughts that point to the columns visions not being as accurate or strong as I understood in my first reading.

[Sephie913]

I wonder if Aviendha had the twisted ring on her when she entered the columns. If she did, then we don't see any clear impact like Egwene's testing. So, the columns would not be similar to that terangreal. The columns would not be simply reflections of other worlds where events played out differently.

 

Or maybe the columns are too vast to be affected structurally by the ring. But their visions might be affected.

 

Just a bunch of questions and thoughts that point to the columns visions not being as accurate or strong as I understood in my first reading.

 

 

I always understood just the opposite, that the columns were 100%.

 

There are other differences in the two ter'angreal, though. The WT test requres AS to channel into it to activate it; the columns are always active. And like you said, the columns seem to be "true" sights, rather than the WT test, which are possibilities.

[Scott Bishop]

I've long had this question about the two crystal thrones or chairs; the "crystal throne" of seanchan and the one rand saw in rhuidean.Ideas?

[Maleshub]

I always understood just the opposite, that the columns were 100%.

 

There are other differences in the two ter'angreal, though. The WT test requres AS to channel into it to activate it; the columns are always active. And like you said, the columns seem to be "true" sights, rather than the WT test, which are possibilities.

 

The testing ter-angreal required channeling; but Egwene's ring didn't require channeling to make her enter TAR. Yet the ring's presence affected the testing ter-angreal.

 

In any case, it is a long, long shot that there is any relation between the twisted ring and the columns. I just threw this out to see if others have discussed it before.

[Terez]

It's a nice idea, but simpler to assume that the second round of visions came because Aviendha touched the columns.

[Maleshub]

It's a nice idea, but simpler to assume that the second round of visions came because Aviendha touched the columns.

 

True! And I prefer a simple, straight-forward explanation over the multifaceted complexities of seeing a clue or hidden relation in almost everything.

 

And aside from the sealing of the Bore, there are so many loose-endings and foretellings to tie up in AMoL that a simple resolution of them would probably fill the whole book. And I wouldn't mind if that were the case.

[Terez]

It's a nice idea, but simpler to assume that the second round of visions came because Aviendha touched the columns.

 

True! And I prefer a simple, straight-forward explanation over the multifaceted complexities of seeing a clue or hidden relation in almost everything.

 

I try to find a healthy balance. There really are hidden relations almost everywhere in WoT; you just have to draw a line somewhere to keep from getting into Felix territory. Certain complexities can be resolved quickly, though; the basis of their complexity is in the foreshadowing, not the resolution.

[Maleshub]

I try to find a healthy balance. There really are hidden relations almost everywhere in WoT; you just have to draw a line somewhere to keep from getting into Felix territory. Certain complexities can be resolved quickly, though; the basis of their complexity is in the foreshadowing, not the resolution.

 

Something as large as WoT and with the publication timeline and various plot lines, there is bound to be many clues and hidden relations. And WoT is unique in how its fandom has investigated and discussed it. That is one of the things that make WoT so appealing to read and then discuss.

 

And, like you said, a healthy balance is what is needed. Searching for clues and studying meanings and relations is a big part of WoT; but when something is clear or is answered authoritatively, it should be taken at face value.

[Terez]

Sure, but we get into all sorts of debates about what is 'clear' or 'authoritatively answered'.

[Maleshub]

Sure, but we get into all sorts of debates about what is 'clear' or 'authoritatively answered'.

 

Like "Taim is Demandred"