On 12/3/2021 at 7:30 AM, DojoToad said:

That's a question I always had from the books.  Would the Dreadlords have come about without the BT?  Did the pattern have Rand found the BT in order to produce the Dreadlords for the final battle?  Or would a Forsaken have done it independently if the BT was never formed?

The Dreadlords were not just from the Black Tower and Taim. There were surviving Black Ajah as well, serving as Dreadlords, and many from Shara, as well. 

This is pretty much a case of darkfriends, according to Jordan.

Remember, that there was a Grey Man present, after he killed everyone.

My theory is that he reacted to that Grey Man, and its presence in the group was proof they were darkfriends.

14 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

Is it wrong that I can quote the entire prophetic song they had? There were two, but I only remember one... with three verses.

Yeah, I do the same with the verses. I love it, because those verses serve as prophecies.

The reason some of the Forsaken do not shield their dreams is because some do not care about being exposed.

Be'lal and Sammael both did not care about this.

All the others did care about being exposed too soon before revealing themselves, as far as some are prepared to.

Moghedien and Graendal in particular would never do this, for any reason. Moghedien because she is paranoid about exposing herself, while Graendal will not do this, because she likes being in full control of situations.

One book series that needs to be done well is The Dark Is Rising Sequence. A collection of 5 books that all deal with a threat. 

The movie attempt dealt with book 2 and it was nothing like the book. It was worse that Voyage Of The Dawn Treader.

At least that had all the adventures that Caspian and crew deal with, just not with the same purpose. Seeker had at most a tiny amount.

Even the Black Rider was wrong.

It depends on how much the video game developers like the books, since there are many video game developers that are book fans, and how skilled at their careers they are.

That is just from my time on these boards over the years, because I am sure I caught a few big name developers show up on here a few times.

Channellers that have the power levels that the Forsaken do, and do not shield their dreams, will force those dreams onto the people around them. They will dream of whatever those figures fear, or long for. They will even act out those channellers very deepest emotions without realising it. 

Those dreams will also occur every night until either they shield their dreams or are killed. 

Loial made a note of it, because Ogier are extremely sensitive to the mood of locations. They also know precisely what is causing that experience.

Remember Loial's report in Illian that a group of stonemasons left after one night when Sammael appeared there.

This action was caused because the Ogier knew a Forsaken was in the area, since they would have knowledge passed down about the effects of being near one from the Age Of Legends. Information the Aes Sedai did not have.

Faile, meanwhile, made note of Illian, because she had been there recently, and noticed a vast change in the people.

22 hours ago, TheSmurf said:

Why do you think so? 

Every thing the story, the world, and characters did in the books can be done in a video game. The Warder colour shifting cloak and Aes Sedai agelessness would be really cool in a video game.

Not anywhere else in any medium.

Animation has a limit in what can be shown during a certain time.

The One Power would be hard to do in animation during a pitched battle with vast armies of humans and Shadowspawn.

Especially in the Last Battle, where there are vast amounts of One Power being used in various ways, from Demandred's Circle of 72, at maximum, to the individual fights going on at the same moment the Circle of 72 is channeling, and that is just at Merrilor. The battle at Shayol Ghul is on an even vaster scale with channeling. The animated show would forget that battle all together, or not mention the fight between the Dragon and the Dark One going on as well if they even showed it.

An animated show would get confused as which channeling went where. They would have to turn it into a multiple episode or even season event.

A video game, by comparison, would handle that complexity really well, with the right team doing the work.

In short, the Last Battle could take place in one video game title release, from beginning, to end, because the previous video game titles would have established the world and how all those elements fit together better. 

With each release, the animated show would struggle the more seasons were done. I have seen more anime that have totally thrown out their world building and characters at the main fight, than maintained them.

I do not think animated would do the story justice.

If you think the t.v show is having trouble with the plots and characters now, which I do not believe, then animators will have an even worse time from the get go. 

I have always felt that a video game series of the story would do well, even possibly outdo the books, because of the gaming experience being different from the reading one.

Even the prologue would be amazing in a video game, and the nightmare dreams would probably be a huge hit.

1 hour ago, Maximillion said:

 

 

I can certainly understand the casting issue - the sequencing has to fit with cast availability and commitment.

The more I see this spoken about and compare it to what it means (what we are seeing) the more I think a really well done animated version would have been the way to go to tell this story properly.

Voiceovers from actors are a lot easier than being at a physical location to shoot at a designated time for long stretches.

 

That is my hope now, that an animated version is inspired to tell the story properly - or even a decent radio play as they did with LOTR on the BBC.

 

If we want a totally faithful adaptation of the story, the only format that would deliver in my opinion, is video gaming.

There, and only there, can it be done.

No other form of entertainment can do it.

I think the show is really good, because it is using the tv show medium to tell the story, and is doing things with its episode time to introduce elements and world that the show will go back to in the future.

Episode 5 and the last episode has already shown that this world is unique from any other fantasy product, and has shown elements and impacts of those in a way that no other fantasy show has done.

Those are just the Aes Sedai and Warders, and also the different examples of depression both shown and told about, and one act of suicide. 

Those are ballsy things to do, at any time.

Artur Hawkwing called him Lews Therin, because that was the identity he lived as the last time Rand was born.

You saw Artur Hawkwing in that scene for precisely the same reason. Because, when a Hero is called by the Horn, that Hero will have the last physical form they were born with before the Horn was used.

Once Rand dies, he will be a Hero with that form, until he next shows up as the Dragon and is born back into the world.

Moridin is not an alternate Rand.

He is in fact Ishamael returned to life, because the Dark One needed him to control the other Forsaken.

Considering what happened to Asmodean, Rahvin and Lanfear, he was desperately needed.

I mean, Ishamael was gone for a few months and the Dark One was losing Forsaken left right and centre, and to events that threatened to compromise his efforts.

Once Moridin showed up, the Shadow gained advantages with each step. They were still losing allies, but no longer having the other efforts suffer from those losses like earlier. 

It is called flawed narration.

The female Dragons spoken of in this episode could be White Tower cover ups of women that went bad in the past.

There are hints of this in the episode itself.

19 hours ago, NightWolf said:

It sounded like they used Robert Berry's Theme for the Wheel of Time (2001) as the Winespring Inn music in episode 1. Hopefully I heard it wrong but if I didn't, I pray Berry was paid royalties.

The music with Episode 3's ending had me. That in particular was beautiful. Considering all the songs in the soundtrack is in Old Tongue, I am loving it.

I am also listening to them on YouTube, they are that good.

I watched the episodes and really enjoyed them. Looking forward to seeing more episodes.

One thing I really enjoyed was the music, it gave me serious Enigma vibes, but the good ones, and made it feel unique.

I really enjoyed that aspect, and it helped me enjoy what I was watching. 

On 11/2/2021 at 9:07 AM, Tim said:

 

 

Where is the evidence for that? The key gender themes are obviously still there: the split between male and female channellers with the former going mad and being hunted and the second holding social power (albeit contested); the social splits between female and male social power even at the village level (we know they’re keeping the women’s circle for example).

 

The only thing we know Rafe has concretely suggested he will change is polygamy to polyamory. And there was something off-feeling about the books giving females more social power but then making all polygamous relationships one man to multiple women (other than for green aes sedai - which in sone ways made it worse by suggesting that polygamy is made possible by an imbalance in authority and that only aes sedai among women could benefit from that imbalance).

I would go so far as to say that it felt incoherent, like RJ hadn’t really thought through the implications of introducing that element in the context of other tweaks to gender relations he had made in the WOT universe.

 

One option to correct that would be to make polygamy more common and running both ways. But given how few relationships are affected by it in the books, the less invasive adjustment is just to avoid the concept of polygamy entirely and/or replace it with something close but less bound up with notions of social power (polyamory).
 

That’s not necessarily about watering down the show for modern sensibilities - Big Love was an excellent modern show primarily about polygamy - but probably mostly about making the show make more sense.

The issue I have, is if Rafe has decided to change Rand's relationship with his three women because he could, what is to stop him from doing the same with Amys and Rhuarc, or any other relationship in the world he comes across because he is uncomfortable with them?

It is about more than just changing a relationship.

Is it changing a cultural custom of the Aiel because he does not like it?

That will anger many people, if they watch the show, then read the books, because it has been done in the real world to people's customs and cultures world wide.

That change could leave a mark on the books in the future, just as The Last Jedi affected all of Star Wars, but much worse. I hope I am wrong about that possibility. But considering what has been changed in entertainment, and films and shows that have suffered from them, I am worried, because it fits a pattern of the times.

Because, the danger is the bigger changes that many have given in this thread as examples, could happen as late as the final season of this show, regardless of what has come before.

There is always the danger of the shows writers changing the Dragon from the Rand to Egwene in the last season due to pressure from outside, just to prove a point. There are already signs of that pressure even this early.

Heck, there are some non readers that are already looking for the "woke tropes" that reacted to the main trailer, and one looking for the which one of the five Aes Sedai at the start of the trailer is lesbian question. Considering the Red Ajah, I cringed, and that was just a thumb nail. 

Considering what is happening, I am not surprised these questions are coming up.

I love this and the last clip the most of anything they have put out.

It was always for me make or break with the Shadowspawn.

This teaser has me ready for more.

November 19 cannot come fast enough!!!!!!

I loved everything about this clip.

It feels like that world come to life.

He did not know of Mattin Stepaneos until his visit to Tar Valon to inform Egwene of his intentions.

We also have the fact an Aes Sedai gave him a letter in that location, and it was before Alsalam's appearance.

But, in between, we saw Rand send Cadsuaine to retrieve someone. It could only have been Verin's letter informing Rand of Alsalam's location.

I suspect it was Verin telling him about Alsalam's location. It is the only thing that I cannot figure out. He sent Cadsuaine to retrieve him, but there is no actual dialogue that suggests how he knew. The only solution for me is Verin's letter. 

I have always leaned on this theory myself. Not only are there hints of Egwene with Mat's battle cry in book one;

we also get a dream in book four, when she sees a broken statue, and almost recognizes it when in the Panarch's Palace in Tanchico. I find that highly suspicous.

Pumped for this!!!! They al look great.

13 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

well, nobody expected them to do as good a job of storytelling as GRRM, but as professional storytellers, they were expected to at least do a passable job at it. they awfully failed to even reach that mark.

For quite a few on here, what happened with Game Of Thrones is the main cause of the negativity.

For others, it is Star Wars and Star Trek, and what happened to those is what is fuelling the negativity of the Lord Of The Rings t.v show.

For others, it is The Seeker and the Shannara Chronicles. Even I had my issues, but, I am really excited as I see more and more of what they are doing. I also started my Prime subscription when I heard this was coming. 

It was a good move on his part.

Especially with the Grey Man attack here being the result of Nyneave being told by Siuan what Callandor is, according to RJ.

In fact Mat and Perrin's encounters are all a result of it too.

It screams of it being an attack by one of the Forsaken looking for him. Most likely Be'lal, since he is guarding the blade.

It is soo close!!!!!! I cannot wait to see it!!!!