Tarmon Gaidon [Advanced Mafia] Game Over

[dicetosser1]

 

Honestly the thing that set my hair on edge most about you all game was when you accused Dice of claiming credit for your ideas when he said there was probably a wolf in both QTs.

 

/shrug

 

But Snow was a wolf and you/Snow w/w did not make much sense from the perspective I was looking at last night.  I just thought it was more likely you than him.  I have to reevaluate.

I still think that he did that.

 

If he had read the QT then he would've seen my 5-10 posts dealing with precisely that. Then a good while after he makes a post pretty much copying my reasoning and leaves it at that. To me, that is not contributing, rather stealing conclusions.

 

 

right cause stating the obvious is stealing. gimme a break. 

 

my POINT wasnt that there was 1 scum   thats a given and had been mentioned a bunch   it was that i thought if it was wifi then there would be TWO in that thread. 

 

As for you  about all ive taken away from u in the QT is

 

a) im gonna be more active

 

b) that ure CERTAIN   and uve been talking like that here too   that there was 1 scum in the QT.

 

c) maths.

 

thats it. you gave me no reason to clear you then you come in here CERTAIN that nol had to be killed by someone in the stedding. How could you be so certain?? then ure whinging i stole ure idea. thats just dumb. you could have also read that as me AGREEING with ure idea and adding a thought to it.

 

 

 

GOATSSSSSS!!!!! TWO DOWNNN AND WE'RE COMING FOR YOU, WOOOLLVVESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

We had a couple of people say they didn't choose their location at all, and some said they chose one location and ended up there

 

Dice mentioned something similar last night with a suggestion it looked good for him. o_0. I don't get it.

@Hallia and @Dice WHY is this a point? Why would it be a good thing?

 

 

 

to show you i had no choice where i went therefore i wasnt placed there by mafia.  its by no means conclusive but ure other head wants me to be a scum so bad i can hear his panting from here! so i tried to show him something to cool his jets.

[Zander?]

Just something I wanted to share.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzrq52qaXZI

[Zander?]

 

 

[V] believer [/v] I liked the reasons.discussed in the QT

What are your thoughts on Kat Darthe?

 

Any reads to share man?

Kat ive not payed much attention to. I know y'all wanna full list but its not in the cards tonight guys, maybe in the morning.

 

 

You should look into her if you get the chance.

 

But ya man reads list would be very helpful.

 

ZanCass/Dice/Iron/very probably Wifi once I get my head screwed back on are my never touch category.

 

If I'm mathing good I think I only need five villagers. 

 

Kinda where I am with you there.

 

Shads both my top Town read and my deepwolf candidate.

 

#theparanoiaisreal.

 

I keep forgetting Pral is in this game.  >_>

 

Ya....

[Cass]

 

Believer

Dice

Shad

WiFi

Zass

 

These are the ones that were in the stedding that lived through the night. One of these (at least) are scum.

 

 

right  so im not scum

 

no WAY Zass is scum. 

 

wifi   nope  not scum i dont think  and thats probably more gameplay then what she said in qt really   shes right on her meta

 

shad   he never makes that kill  restate  he only makes that kill as a /MAJOR gambit and its one that cant work for him cause if he makes endgame he should be autolynch. 

 

 

for me that leaves Believer

 

 

[v]Katiora[/v]

 

 

There were scum in the Stedding, the kill on Nolder confirms this.

 

My top are dice and WiFi. Gonna research more into this.

 

explain the red please?

 

 

For now I am in agreement with the bold here, Shad is emulating his Town game to a tee since the AtE yesterday. Had some tinfoil on his interactions with Nolder, thinking they could be easily faked/forced but then remembered Nyn. Probably never voting him tbh.

 

Believer currently at the bottom of this group for me too. 

 

Watching Dice and the reactions around him.  Thoughts and stuff.

 

I don't know WiFi. She needs re-ISO.

 

 

 

Faction kill - strongman - if you submit the faction kill within Tel'Aran'Rhiod and on somebody else within Tel'Aran'Rhiod the kill can not be blocked by protective roles or be roleblocked. You can not submit a strongman kill 2 nights running

This implies that a scum in Tel can submit a faction kill on someone not in Tel.

 

Hm, yes. I concede.

 

I assumed that the NA's would be limited to persons inside your QT. My bad.

 

My analysis is faulty, don't go by it.

 

 

Believer, my problem with you here is not that your analysis is faulty per se, but that pushing that agenda in the first place has the potential effect/motivation of casting shade on everyone else in the Stedding, and I'm currently reading all of them but you Town or most likely.

 

Your vote against JS counts for something, and I see the possibility that you're Town but you don't just get to coast on that. It could be that JS was throwing shade at you and you caught him out, or it could have been the two of you distancing. You said your play would change D2 and that you wouldn't disappoint. I'll give you that time but we need more thoughts/interactions directed by you on record than just self defence to keep any sort of faith.

 

Who are the remaining wolves?

 

 

Darthe did not say I THINK.

 

He said a few players never chose including himself.

IIRC Dice said something similar in the Stedding. Why is this a problem?

 

 

I wrote this in the QT before Day ended so I'll just post it here. It obviously needs to be updated to include info on NKs but I'll post it anyway

 

--

 

I’m ready to give Shad a clear atp. He was one of the first to vote Hellion, #877 I’d hard to believe is him like a preparing to bus cuz there’s no freaking way scum are going to bus this OP char until they absolutely have to (Execute, Strongman, Severing, Gladiator wtf). So to me that also means Nolder suddenly has a lot more town equity as 3rd vote. 

 

QED the people super reluctant to vote Hellian or people who didn’t even try are likely scum. I think the chance of a CFD was pretty low given the quality of posts nearing the end and lack of a scum target so it’s likely that the people sticking up for Hellian probably aren’t scum either (Hallia #1117, Cass #1087). Believer could’ve gone with Hellian as a target instead of JS but emphasised not liking JS since he was most obvious target at that point. His other option was probably to jump ship to Hellian but he wouldn’t do that if they’re teammates given the strength of Demandred’s role. 

 

Zass - basically clear atp. First to vote Hellian and kept at it. Swapped and swapped back. Basically clear.

 

Dice - #944 no read on Hellian.

 

Pral - “Hellian - Not much to comment here. She is new and I don’t know how she plays. Still don’t know the votes on her.” 

His comments at the end of D1 gave him a more town vibe but his I’ll disagree with his reads list even more now. 

 

Darthe - Hasn’t commented on Hellian. Says Dice and Nol look fine after not much content. Could see that as someone acting on TMI.

 

Believer - #1169. Orly.

 

WiFi - 9.15 pm Hellian is null #1139. 10.42 pm Hellian is scum. #1196 “That being said I think hellion could be scum, as described in my reads list..” he wasn’t really described as such in your reads, plus this kind of reads insecure about being caught out. 

 

 

 

 

Last 5 people on the train were Kat, Hallia, WiFi, Dice, and Darthe

 

From this group I’ve got town leans on Dice and Hallia. 

 

Leaves WiFi, Believer, Darthe, and Kat.

 

I think remaining scum are variation of these 4 but I’d guess Darthe and Believer aren’t W/W.

 

From the discussion that we had in the QT Hellian could’ve used his execute ability on Believer and cut the day short since it was fairly obvious he was toast with limited time left but he didn’t. Either he just didn’t join the thread at all or he didn’t want to kill Believer for scum mate reasons. Darthe potentially scum slipped in the TAR thread, ISO’ing there’s not a single post towards irt Hellian though he comments on Believer not being around #1232.

 

Cool with voting Darthe, Believer, or WiFi today.

 

 

--

 

Why the bold, especially Hally? IIRC Dice had both John Snow and Hellian in his bottom three but I don't see much from Halleh that clears her?

[Zander?]

 

 

 

I could watch those gifs all day...

The more important question is can you watch them all day and still capture wolves??

Well I won't claim to be good at mafia (not any more at least) but I'd love to kill some wolves! Does [v]Unvote vote wolves[/v] work?

[V] ironeyes [/v]

 

 

 

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

 

 

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

my first thought on seeing this was that snow was spewing halli pulled a strong character so thats gonna make her harder to mislynch

 

my second is thats hallia. Deal with it.

 

For me  that claim almost locks her in blue  will take something big for me to lynch there

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

I said it was disgusting. I think it's antitown. Claiming doc day 1 is always bad for town. 

 

It's not scummy, just bad play. 

 

-snip-

John Snow: Pops in, votes me for lame/unexplained reasons, disappears. Pingy for sure, and like I said before this reminds me of Scum!Clovdyx in the beginning of Demons Cove. He directed all of the attention toward me right from the start and not only gained towncred for it, but was able to keep the heat off of his lurky teammates. They won that game in part because of his calculated risk there. 

 

 

A) I gave a reason. 

 

B) I said I would be sparse for 12 hours (aka until about now)

 

C) I'm not Clov

 

Also, Zass is 26 posts from cap lmao. It's been barely 24 hours. 

 

 

 

-snip-

@ zander: you know I do read the thread RIGHT....so wth...I know I am er...sssssslllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwww on the uptake bbbuuttt I'm LEARNING....It's been what...10 GAMES You would at least think I've learned something so far...I did take computer Programming in College with a GPA OF 3.89 ONLY 2 B'S 1 IN FIGURE DRAWING....YES WITH RL NUDE MODELS....    

-snip-

Yes I totally admit it....I lied last game....I didn't think I would...I had never randed wolf...except darthes game and even then I didn't lie...but the last game I was subbing for someone and I had a team that was helping me along so I couldn't let them down...however if you noticed...I only said I was town queenie on my reads list....I didn't say I was town until the very end....and that was again more self pres then anything...I wanted to play the game....that being said....

 

 

 

 

I AM TOWN

 

 

This is the "woe is me" post. 

 

Oh, gosh, feel bad for me, I'm so sorry I lied but I'll never do it again and it felt awful. Oh my gosh leave me alone I can make good plays because i'm learning. Etc. 

 

Also, for the record Wifi, lying is part of the game. There's some post on the mafiascum wiki about how always telling the truth is playing against your WinCon. Your job as mafia to convince people you're town, not make it easy to tell the difference. 

 

 

I dunno but I feel pretty ok clearing Hallia, Iron and very likely Wifi.

[Zander?]

 

-snip-

Ok. I initially didn't like Snow's entry but on a base level I have/had a lot of the same thoughts as this.

Standing out is that it's strange/possibly 'easy' to claim a gut read of me at that point in the game. We've never played together;

 

and

 

The progression with Nolder makes a jump I can't follow.

 

Wording here suggests that Snow has Nolder very resolutely null and is considering his potential to be wolf right from the beginning BUT in #594, when he first throws out a reads list, Nolder is in Green with no explanation.

 

@Snow - What made you put Nolder in green?

 

 

Him doggedly getting in an argument. When I put that in my reads list, I remembered a game I played with him as scum where he said, in the QT, "Yeah I'm going to really dig in on this argument b/c everyone knows that's my town meta". Made me change it to a null tell. 

 

 

John Iron not being lynched today so who else you wanna vote?

 

Atm I'm going to [unvote] [v] Believer [/v]

 

I want to reread Nol and Pral now that they have some more content, and want to check out the Hellian thing some more. 

 

 

John going @ Believer

 

 

 

honestly my gut is saying [v]Believer[/v] right now. Though I don't know. It is bothering me that Hallian hasn't showed up today AT ALL 

 

Hellian flips Scum Kats Wolf Equity rises imo.

 

 

Mhm

 

 

OMG SOME PLEASE TALK TO BE ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

honestly my gut is saying [v]Believer[/v] right now. Though I don't know. It is bothering me that Hallian hasn't showed up today AT ALL

 

Hellian flips Scum Kats Wolf Equity rises imo.

lololol I actually feel the same as Kat :p

 

 

That's not it. I think believer looks worse than Hellian, which is why I'm voting there. 

 

 The tone of that post is what bugs me.

 

 

 

 

1. Tiinker-Town-Decent progression, clear thought process. How experienced is Tiink btw? Think I've only got 2 games with him. 

2. Nolder-Null-low content, besides getting into a bit of a stupid argument with Shad. He's aware that this is his town meta and is capable of faking it as mafia. Indeterminate either way. 

3. Kat-Slight Town-Decent reads list. Not enough content to be a firm read. 

4. Dice-Slight scum-content consists of jumping on Shad's AtE. Easy to do as scum, though not an unreasonable town move. 

5. WiFi-Scum-Her AtE is awful. Explained more below. 

6. Hallia-Town-As per character claim.

7. John Snow-Town

8. Darthe-Slight town-Gut

9. Zander/Cass-Town-Gut from Cass. But I'm always happy with a Zander lynch. 

10. Pral-Null?-Actually 0 content. As in absolutely 0. 

11. Hellian-Slight Scum-Gut

12. Believer-Scum-See Below

13. Ironeyes-Scum-Reads list looks good, but a lot of fluff. A lot of "well this happened in DC" and (fake?) confusion. It feels like he's got a lot more content than he does until you ISO him.

14. Shad-Slight Town-Good questions, good WiM. AtE is off putting. 

 

Okay, so the difference between Shad's AtE and WiFi's is that Shad's reads as frustrated, where as WiFi reads as "woe is me, feel bad for me". 

 

The former isn't hard to form as scum, but you don't see the latter on a townie that has no pressure. It's most commonly seen (imo) on a townie who's getting lynched and has no idea how to prove their town, or on a mafioso with a guilty conscience. 

 

Believer:

 

 

Meh, I was going to vote John Snow but now I kind of like Ironeyes again.

 

Bothers me slightly that I'm voting with John though, meh.

 

 

Consider me engaged, anyone here to talk to?

 

Meh.

 

[unvote]

 

[v]John Snow[/v]

 

Feels like he's trying to see if people still want to lynch me, get some backing before he tries to run me up. 

Meh, I was going to vote John Snow but now I kind of like Ironeyes again.

 

Bothers me slightly that I'm voting with John though, meh.

 

 

Consider me engaged, anyone here to talk to?

 

 

 

I mean if Believer is Scum this is some epic level distancing.

 

I mean after seeing John's abilities it seems Hellion may very well be the Big Bad Baddie so to speak.

 

I mean we didnt have 3 Scum trains running D1 did we????

 

So i colored dead people by proper color.

 

Looking at John's Iso as I mentioned, Hallia, Iron and Wifi dont seem like likely Scummates so I colored them half blue.

 

Unless John and Believer decided to bus the hell out of each other Im having trouble seeing it.

 

Tink as top read is interesting tho especially with the reasoning imo.

 

Thoughts people?

[Cass]

FEAAARRRRR

 

Purely tone wise, this is probably a good look from Halleh? 

 

 

He was contributing a lot in our qt - I thought of there was a target in there it would be him

 

What was contributed?

 

 

As I said in the QT, I'll be going to T'A'R on the next night.

Why is this important? Did you miss this question in the QT?

 

 

im out for the day  and will be out again tonight

 

 

@ shad and zass   take a look at what im saying  let me know if you think im off

You're not off imo. But I'm going round in tinfoil circles somewhat on it all. The dude played scummy af in Disney and was Town. He still could be Town here but until I see a broader focus I'm not ...beliebing. For now I'll trust what I can see lol. You gonna keep sharing your thoughts on other players?

 

 

[V] believer [/v] I liked the reasons.discussed in the QT

Which were?????

 

I will be so happy if you're giving us something good at the end of this run-around Darthe, I swear to Light.

 

 

 

 

Honestly the thing that set my hair on edge most about you all game was when you accused Dice of claiming credit for your ideas when he said there was probably a wolf in both QTs.

 

/shrug

 

But Snow was a wolf and you/Snow w/w did not make much sense from the perspective I was looking at last night.  I just thought it was more likely you than him.  I have to reevaluate.

I still think that he did that.

 

If he had read the QT then he would've seen my 5-10 posts dealing with precisely that. Then a good while after he makes a post pretty much copying my reasoning and leaves it at that. To me, that is not contributing, rather stealing conclusions.

 

 

right cause stating the obvious is stealing. gimme a break. 

 

my POINT wasnt that there was 1 scum   thats a given and had been mentioned a bunch   it was that i thought if it was wifi then there would be TWO in that thread. 

 

As for you  about all ive taken away from u in the QT is

 

a) im gonna be more active

 

b) that ure CERTAIN   and uve been talking like that here too   that there was 1 scum in the QT.

 

c) maths.

 

thats it. you gave me no reason to clear you then you come in here CERTAIN that nol had to be killed by someone in the stedding. How could you be so certain?? then ure whinging i stole ure idea. thats just dumb. you could have also read that as me AGREEING with ure idea and adding a thought to it.

 

 

 

GOATSSSSSS!!!!! TWO DOWNNN AND WE'RE COMING FOR YOU, WOOOLLVVESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

We had a couple of people say they didn't choose their location at all, and some said they chose one location and ended up there

 

Dice mentioned something similar last night with a suggestion it looked good for him. o_0. I don't get it.

@Hallia and @Dice WHY is this a point? Why would it be a good thing?

 

 

 

to show you i had no choice where i went therefore i wasnt placed there by mafia.  its by no means conclusive but ure other head wants me to be a scum so bad i can hear his panting from here! so i tried to show him something to cool his jets.

 

Lololol, truth is, you've shown 100% Town Dice all along and the rest is just tinfoil. That quote would just be hillarious if it was true. If you are scum here something seriously wiggy's going on. 

 

 

Just something I wanted to share.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzrq52qaXZI

lolololololol

 

 

 

 

[V] believer [/v] I liked the reasons.discussed in the QT

What are your thoughts on Kat Darthe?

 

Any reads to share man?

Kat ive not payed much attention to. I know y'all wanna full list but its not in the cards tonight guys, maybe in the morning.

 

 

You should look into her if you get the chance.

 

But ya man reads list would be very helpful.

 

ZanCass/Dice/Iron/very probably Wifi once I get my head screwed back on are my never touch category.

 

If I'm mathing good I think I only need five villagers. 

 

Kinda where I am with you there.

 

Shads both my top Town read and my deepwolf candidate.

 

#theparanoiaisreal.

 

I keep forgetting Pral is in this game.  >_>

 

Ya....

 

 

ALL of this x a million.

[Cass]

Ok. Current most WTL Believer/Kat. I have doubts about Halleh/Tink/Darthe/Pral in no particular order. WiFi in a class of her own. Iron/Shad/Dice Town.

 

So

 

Town

 

Dice

Iron

Shad

 

Wifi

 

Halleh/Tink/Darthe/Pral

 

Believer/Kat

 

 

 

I've given all my thoughts on Believer.

 

There was a lot of discussion between Shad, Dice and Zander last night that ended in them all confidently pointing to Kat as scum. I think it's a good idea to get the thoughts from the QTs (who said what) out ITT so everyone can make up their own minds. But for the moment I'll sheep these boys and add that it's probably not a good look Kat only posted twice in the QT. 

 

Hallia shaping up activity wise but Idk. Her D1 bugged me for the early reads/? buddying on us and Believer. The holding off on Hellian didn't look good. Saying she protected Tiink threw me, otoh the only protecting people in the same place would fit. Not sure what to make of her interaction/push on Darthe. Can't remember interactions with JS.

 

Tiink looks good mostly, demonstrating independent thought/consideration and I've mindmelded with a lot of his stuff. The only thing standing out in quick skim is he abstained from giving a read of Hellian and made an early point about never having played with John Snuuuuh. Assuming he's never played with Hellian either so the different treatment is maybe o_0. Need to look at the timing of his JS vote and progression there imo.

 

Need more from Pral.

 

Darthe's completely undecided. I go back and forwards on this so much. EoD was maybe wiggy. Whenever he posts I see multiple possibilities, I don't believe he's a shallow player and the way he phrases some stuff makes me think his focus could be more about catching scum then Town. Similar to Disney. He could go either way. Without more I can't put him higher than here. 

 

I was YOLOing WiFi Town but now I think I want her to get clearer. I feel like I can see reasons for suspicions and that we've mindmelded a lot but I'm not sure if that's just because she posts every possible thought. Only thing I remember reading out of kilter ITT of the top of my head was the AtE at Zander early on. It felt extreme. Her progression on Hellian/John Snow in a reads list posted in the Stedding has her forgetting Hellian was scum and calling Snow both scum and town. 

 

Dice and Shad both Town or I'll eat my hat. 

 

Dice is playing with aggression and tunnel and fire and faith. 

 

Shad playing his Town game AFAICT since his AtE and even then I'm less concerned about that since rationalising he reacted fairly strongly last game when Nyn threw down a FoS. His progression/interaction with Nol reminds me of the way he blows up and then moves on with Nyn too. Here I'm gonna have faith.

 

Ironeyes ok short of a counterclaim. IIRC he FoS'd JS from early on, the shot makes sense.

 

 

 

Will be around for a bit later after the kids are in bed but back at work tomorrow so it has to be an early night. 

[dicetosser1]

cass when others turn up then i will start giving other thoughts but mostly i let it all out in the QT.

 

 

 the Believer stuff sprang from what he had or hadnt said in QT and then his comments this morning

[Pralaya]

Once during the game you may choose to Execute a player. Once a player has half the votes needed to hammer (if in a traditional hammer game) you may PM me to execute them. This ends the day automatically. [redacted]

Well, so the critical thing is this. Hellian could have executed anyone with half the votes in order to save himself. I guess she was the strongest scum player in the team, looking at her powers. Unfortunately for scum, the other train was John Snow. There definitely would be an attempt to build an alternate town wagon to use this power.

[Tiinker]

 

 

Believer

Dice

Shad

WiFi

Zass

 

These are the ones that were in the stedding that lived through the night. One of these (at least) are scum.

 

 

right  so im not scum

 

no WAY Zass is scum. 

 

wifi   nope  not scum i dont think  and thats probably more gameplay then what she said in qt really   shes right on her meta

 

shad   he never makes that kill  restate  he only makes that kill as a /MAJOR gambit and its one that cant work for him cause if he makes endgame he should be autolynch. 

 

 

for me that leaves Believer

 

 

[v]Katiora[/v]

 

 

There were scum in the Stedding, the kill on Nolder confirms this.

 

My top are dice and WiFi. Gonna research more into this.

 

explain the red please?

 

 

For now I am in agreement with the bold here, Shad is emulating his Town game to a tee since the AtE yesterday. Had some tinfoil on his interactions with Nolder, thinking they could be easily faked/forced but then remembered Nyn. Probably never voting him tbh.

 

Believer currently at the bottom of this group for me too. 

 

Watching Dice and the reactions around him.  Thoughts and stuff.

 

I don't know WiFi. She needs re-ISO.

 

 

 

Faction kill - strongman - if you submit the faction kill within Tel'Aran'Rhiod and on somebody else within Tel'Aran'Rhiod the kill can not be blocked by protective roles or be roleblocked. You can not submit a strongman kill 2 nights running

This implies that a scum in Tel can submit a faction kill on someone not in Tel.

 

Hm, yes. I concede.

 

I assumed that the NA's would be limited to persons inside your QT. My bad.

 

My analysis is faulty, don't go by it.

 

 

Believer, my problem with you here is not that your analysis is faulty per se, but that pushing that agenda in the first place has the potential effect/motivation of casting shade on everyone else in the Stedding, and I'm currently reading all of them but you Town or most likely.

 

Your vote against JS counts for something, and I see the possibility that you're Town but you don't just get to coast on that. It could be that JS was throwing shade at you and you caught him out, or it could have been the two of you distancing. You said your play would change D2 and that you wouldn't disappoint. I'll give you that time but we need more thoughts/interactions directed by you on record than just self defence to keep any sort of faith.

 

Who are the remaining wolves?

 

 

Darthe did not say I THINK.

 

He said a few players never chose including himself.

IIRC Dice said something similar in the Stedding. Why is this a problem?

 

 

I wrote this in the QT before Day ended so I'll just post it here. It obviously needs to be updated to include info on NKs but I'll post it anyway

 

--

 

I’m ready to give Shad a clear atp. He was one of the first to vote Hellion, #877 I’d hard to believe is him like a preparing to bus cuz there’s no freaking way scum are going to bus this OP char until they absolutely have to (Execute, Strongman, Severing, Gladiator wtf). So to me that also means Nolder suddenly has a lot more town equity as 3rd vote. 

 

QED the people super reluctant to vote Hellian or people who didn’t even try are likely scum. I think the chance of a CFD was pretty low given the quality of posts nearing the end and lack of a scum target so it’s likely that the people sticking up for Hellian probably aren’t scum either (Hallia #1117, Cass #1087). Believer could’ve gone with Hellian as a target instead of JS but emphasised not liking JS since he was most obvious target at that point. His other option was probably to jump ship to Hellian but he wouldn’t do that if they’re teammates given the strength of Demandred’s role. 

 

Zass - basically clear atp. First to vote Hellian and kept at it. Swapped and swapped back. Basically clear.

 

Dice - #944 no read on Hellian.

 

Pral - “Hellian - Not much to comment here. She is new and I don’t know how she plays. Still don’t know the votes on her.” 

His comments at the end of D1 gave him a more town vibe but his I’ll disagree with his reads list even more now. 

 

Darthe - Hasn’t commented on Hellian. Says Dice and Nol look fine after not much content. Could see that as someone acting on TMI.

 

Believer - #1169. Orly.

 

WiFi - 9.15 pm Hellian is null #1139. 10.42 pm Hellian is scum. #1196 “That being said I think hellion could be scum, as described in my reads list..” he wasn’t really described as such in your reads, plus this kind of reads insecure about being caught out. 

 

 

 

 

Last 5 people on the train were Kat, Hallia, WiFi, Dice, and Darthe

 

From this group I’ve got town leans on Dice and Hallia. 

 

Leaves WiFi, Believer, Darthe, and Kat.

 

I think remaining scum are variation of these 4 but I’d guess Darthe and Believer aren’t W/W.

 

From the discussion that we had in the QT Hellian could’ve used his execute ability on Believer and cut the day short since it was fairly obvious he was toast with limited time left but he didn’t. Either he just didn’t join the thread at all or he didn’t want to kill Believer for scum mate reasons. Darthe potentially scum slipped in the TAR thread, ISO’ing there’s not a single post towards irt Hellian though he comments on Believer not being around #1232.

 

Cool with voting Darthe, Believer, or WiFi today.

 

 

--

 

Why the bold, especially Hally? IIRC Dice had both John Snow and Hellian in his bottom three but I don't see much from Halleh that clears her?

 

She freaking claimed Nynaeve. 

[Believer]

 

 

Honestly the thing that set my hair on edge most about you all game was when you accused Dice of claiming credit for your ideas when he said there was probably a wolf in both QTs.

 

/shrug

 

But Snow was a wolf and you/Snow w/w did not make much sense from the perspective I was looking at last night.  I just thought it was more likely you than him.  I have to reevaluate.

I still think that he did that.

 

If he had read the QT then he would've seen my 5-10 posts dealing with precisely that. Then a good while after he makes a post pretty much copying my reasoning and leaves it at that. To me, that is not contributing, rather stealing conclusions.

 

 

right cause stating the obvious is stealing. gimme a break. 

 

my POINT wasnt that there was 1 scum   thats a given and had been mentioned a bunch   it was that i thought if it was wifi then there would be TWO in that thread. 

 

As for you  about all ive taken away from u in the QT is

 

a) im gonna be more active

 

b) that ure CERTAIN   and uve been talking like that here too   that there was 1 scum in the QT.

 

c) maths.

 

thats it. you gave me no reason to clear you then you come in here CERTAIN that nol had to be killed by someone in the stedding. How could you be so certain?? then ure whinging i stole ure idea. thats just dumb. you could have also read that as me AGREEING with ure idea and adding a thought to it.

 

Please read my dismantling of your case and reply to it before you tunnel on.

[Pralaya]

D1 Votecount

 

 

 

Ironeyes (1): Snow

 

Snow (3): Ironeyes, Hallia, Believer

 

Hellian (3): Zass, Shad, Nolder

 

Zass (1): Hellian

 

Believer (1): Tiinker

 

Not Voting (5): Darthe, Dice, Katiora, Pralaya, Wildfire Sedai

 

 

 

You have about 7 hours to choose between the stedding and Tel'Aran'Rhiod

Atm I'm going to [unvote] [v] Believer [/v]

 

I want to reread Nol and Pral now that they have some more content, and want to check out the Hellian thing some more.

I seriously doubt Believer is scum based on this vote. It could be a very sneaky gambit (John Snow even talked about these things) but as a gambit JS would have been better voting Hellian instead of Believer. The whole Believer train was probably a train to Execute him.

[Believer]

[V] believer I liked the reasons.discussed in the QT

If they are only what has been quoted so far, I've picked that case apart for the weak one it is.

[Pralaya]

JS flip does kinda clear Hallia. If she was scum, I doubt JS would bring up a fake claim discussion after his fellow scum fake-claimed. Plus her vote on JS right at the beginning.

[Pralaya]

Oh talking about which, I would never lynch Ironeyes this game. There is no way he is a wolf.

[BFG]

D2 Votecount

 

Kat (2): Zass, Believer

 

Believer (2): Dice, Darthe

 

Not Voting (7): Hallia, Ironeyes, Katiora, Pralaya, Shad_, Tiinker, Wildfire Sedai

 

[BFG]

regarding use of QTs, you can quote yourself, you can paraphrase other people, conversations. You can refer back to conversations, you can't code out a new message

 

Basically everything so far is fine :)

[BFG]

Above was meant to be posted at day start, sorry for any confusion

[Tiinker]

Not sure if it's been discussed but in the QT Kat said she chose stedding but somehow ended up in TAR. Don't think she'd make that up really. I pointed out that the listed dreamwalkers on the WoT Wiki are mostly town so she could still be scum but it doesn't seem like a scum role to do that given how all character roles revealed so far seem to only work in TAR.

[Tiinker]

Not sure if it's been discussed but in the QT Kat said she chose stedding but somehow ended up in TAR. Don't think she'd make that up really. I pointed out that the listed dreamwalkers on the WoT Wiki are mostly town so she could still be scum but it doesn't seem like a scum town role to do that given how all character roles revealed so far seem to only work in TAR.

Pure speculation on my part. Drag them into TAR to protect them? Idk it doesn't seem like protective roles/helping roles are all the jam so it doesn't really fit for it to be a town role. 

[Shad_]

There was a lot of discussion between Shad, Dice and Zander last night that ended in them all confidently pointing to Kat as scum.

To be clear, I'm not confident that Kat is scum. She's in my top suspects.

 

That might mean the same thing to some people but it's different in my head.

[Shad_]

I was YOLOing WiFi Town but now I think I want her to get clearer. I feel like I can see reasons for suspicions and that we've mindmelded a lot but I'm not sure if that's just because she posts every possible thought. Only thing I remember reading out of kilter ITT of the top of my head was the AtE at Zander early on. It felt extreme. Her progression on Hellian/John Snow in a reads list posted in the Stedding has her forgetting Hellian was scum and calling Snow both scum and town.

 

"Extreme" "bizarre" "wtf did that just happen?" is kind of villagery for her.  I liked the AtE.  As a wolf she was able, with some coaching, to fake some weird behavior, like not voting the counterwagon when she was lead train (this was planned and used to justify the CFD on Dice), but all-in-all her scum game is a lot more straight-forward, consistent, maybe more logical even.  I'd encourage people to look at BM and compare, keeping in mind that she subbed in and improved as the game went on.

[Cass]

 

 

 

 

I could watch those gifs all day...

 

The more important question is can you watch them all day and still capture wolves??

Well I won't claim to be good at mafia (not any more at least) but I'd love to kill some wolves! Does [v]Unvote vote wolves[/v] work?

[V] ironeyes [/v]

 

 

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

my first thought on seeing this was that snow was spewing halli pulled a strong character so thats gonna make her harder to mislynch

 

my second is thats hallia. Deal with it.

 

For me  that claim almost locks her in blue  will take something big for me to lynch there

Char claiming this early is disgusting.

 

 

I said it was disgusting. I think it's antitown. Claiming doc day 1 is always bad for town. 

 

It's not scummy, just bad play. 

 

-snip-

John Snow: Pops in, votes me for lame/unexplained reasons, disappears. Pingy for sure, and like I said before this reminds me of Scum!Clovdyx in the beginning of Demons Cove. He directed all of the attention toward me right from the start and not only gained towncred for it, but was able to keep the heat off of his lurky teammates. They won that game in part because of his calculated risk there.

 

 

 

A) I gave a reason. 

 

B) I said I would be sparse for 12 hours (aka until about now)

 

C) I'm not Clov

 

Also, Zass is 26 posts from cap lmao. It's been barely 24 hours.

 

 

-snip-

@ zander: you know I do read the thread RIGHT....so wth...I know I am er...sssssslllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwwww on the uptake bbbuuttt I'm LEARNING....It's been what...10 GAMES You would at least think I've learned something so far...I did take computer Programming in College with a GPA OF 3.89 ONLY 2 B'S 1 IN FIGURE DRAWING....YES WITH RL NUDE MODELS....    

-snip-

Yes I totally admit it....I lied last game....I didn't think I would...I had never randed wolf...except darthes game and even then I didn't lie...but the last game I was subbing for someone and I had a team that was helping me along so I couldn't let them down...however if you noticed...I only said I was town queenie on my reads list....I didn't say I was town until the very end....and that was again more self pres then anything...I wanted to play the game....that being said....

 

 

 

 

 

I AM TOWN

 

This is the "woe is me" post. 

 

Oh, gosh, feel bad for me, I'm so sorry I lied but I'll never do it again and it felt awful. Oh my gosh leave me alone I can make good plays because i'm learning. Etc. 

 

Also, for the record Wifi, lying is part of the game. There's some post on the mafiascum wiki about how always telling the truth is playing against your WinCon. Your job as mafia to convince people you're town, not make it easy to tell the difference.

 

I dunno but I feel pretty ok clearing Hallia, Iron and very likely Wifi.

I'm just swimming after Wifi ISO and I'm not so sure about this.

 

Iron I'd probably agree because otherwise that's some serious bussing and he's lying about his shot.

 

Hallia and WiFi on the other hand could be distancing. WiFi doesn't respond to him at all afaict which I think's strange considering how vehement she was in her reaction to you earlier. Hallia's still alive. Either scum risked leaving her alive for WIFOM or she's scum imo. Need to check how much Halleh interacted/commented on JS imo *puppy dog eyes* The WIM is stronnnnnng but I neeeed to go to beddd!!!!

[Cass]

 

 

-snip-

Ok. I initially didn't like Snow's entry but on a base level I have/had a lot of the same thoughts as this.

 

Standing out is that it's strange/possibly 'easy' to claim a gut read of me at that point in the game. We've never played together;

and

The progression with Nolder makes a jump I can't follow.

Wording here suggests that Snow has Nolder very resolutely null and is considering his potential to be wolf right from the beginning BUT in #594, when he first throws out a reads list, Nolder is in Green with no explanation.

@Snow - What made you put Nolder in green?

 

 

Him doggedly getting in an argument. When I put that in my reads list, I remembered a game I played with him as scum where he said, in the QT, "Yeah I'm going to really dig in on this argument b/c everyone knows that's my town meta". Made me change it to a null tell. 

 

 

John Iron not being lynched today so who else you wanna vote?

 

 

Atm I'm going to [unvote] [v] Believer [/v]

 

I want to reread Nol and Pral now that they have some more content, and want to check out the Hellian thing some more.

 

John going @ Believer

 

 

 

honestly my gut is saying [v]Believer[/v] right now. Though I don't know. It is bothering me that Hallian hasn't showed up today AT ALL

 

 

Hellian flips Scum Kats Wolf Equity rises imo.

 

Mhm

 

OMG SOME PLEASE TALK TO BE ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

honestly my gut is saying [v]Believer[/v] right now. Though I don't know. It is bothering me that Hallian hasn't showed up today AT ALL

 

 

Hellian flips Scum Kats Wolf Equity rises imo.

lololol I actually feel the same as Kat :p

 

That's not it. I think believer looks worse than Hellian, which is why I'm voting there. 

 

 The tone of that post is what bugs me.

 

 

1. Tiinker-Town-Decent progression, clear thought process. How experienced is Tiink btw? Think I've only got 2 games with him. 2. Nolder-Null-low content, besides getting into a bit of a stupid argument with Shad. He's aware that this is his town meta and is capable of faking it as mafia. Indeterminate either way. 3. Kat-Slight Town-Decent reads list. Not enough content to be a firm read. 4. Dice-Slight scum-content consists of jumping on Shad's AtE. Easy to do as scum, though not an unreasonable town move. 5. WiFi-Scum-Her AtE is awful. Explained more below. 6. Hallia-Town-As per character claim.7. John Snow-Town8. Darthe-Slight town-Gut9. Zander/Cass-Town-Gut from Cass. But I'm always happy with a Zander lynch. 10. Pral-Null?-Actually 0 content. As in absolutely 0. 11. Hellian-Slight Scum-Gut12. Believer-Scum-See Below13. Ironeyes-Scum-Reads list looks good, but a lot of fluff. A lot of "well this happened in DC" and (fake?) confusion. It feels like he's got a lot more content than he does until you ISO him.

14. Shad-Slight Town-Good questions, good WiM. AtE is off putting. 

 

Okay, so the difference between Shad's AtE and WiFi's is that Shad's reads as frustrated, where as WiFi reads as "woe is me, feel bad for me". 

 

The former isn't hard to form as scum, but you don't see the latter on a townie that has no pressure. It's most commonly seen (imo) on a townie who's getting lynched and has no idea how to prove their town, or on a mafioso with a guilty conscience. 

 

Believer:

 

 

 

Meh, I was going to vote John Snow but now I kind of like Ironeyes again.

Bothers me slightly that I'm voting with John though, meh.

Consider me engaged, anyone here to talk to?

 

 

 

Meh.

[unvote]

[v]John Snow[/v]

 

 

Feels like he's trying to see if people still want to lynch me, get some backing before he tries to run me up. 

 

Meh, I was going to vote John Snow but now I kind of like Ironeyes again.

Bothers me slightly that I'm voting with John though, meh.

Consider me engaged, anyone here to talk to?

 

 

I mean if Believer is Scum this is some epic level distancing.

 

I mean after seeing John's abilities it seems Hellion may very well be the Big Bad Baddie so to speak.

 

I mean we didnt have 3 Scum trains running D1 did we????

 

So i colored dead people by proper color.

 

Looking at John's Iso as I mentioned, Hallia, Iron and Wifi dont seem like likely Scummates so I colored them half blue.

 

Unless John and Believer decided to bus the hell out of each other Im having trouble seeing it.

 

Tink as top read is interesting tho especially with the reasoning imo.

 

Thoughts people?

 

 

I can't get more than WIFOM out of the mmhmm thing wrt Kat.

 

I'm liking Tiink's process/what I'm reading here. Could be scummy putting him in top town spot but I think it's less likely a wolf does that? 

 

 

Once during the game you may choose to Execute a player. Once a player has half the votes needed to hammer (if in a traditional hammer game) you may PM me to execute them. This ends the day automatically. [redacted]

Well, so the critical thing is this. Hellian could have executed anyone with half the votes in order to save himself. I guess she was the strongest scum player in the team, looking at her powers. Unfortunately for scum, the other train was John Snow. There definitely would be an attempt to build an alternate town wagon to use this power.

 

 

Don't hate this. If Kat's a Wolf Believer looks better for shifting her vote there late imo.

 

 

 

 

Believer[/size]Dice[/size]Shad[/size]WiFi[/size]Zass[/size]

 

These are the ones that were in the stedding that lived through the night. One of these (at least) are scum.[/size]

 

 

 

right  so im not scum

 

no WAY Zass is scum. 

 

wifi   nope  not scum i dont think  and thats probably more gameplay then what she said in qt really   shes right on her meta

 

shad   he never makes that kill  restate  he only makes that kill as a /MAJOR gambit and its one that cant work for him cause if he makes endgame he should be autolynch. 

 

 

for me that leaves Believer

 

 

[v]Katiora[/v]

 

 

There were scum in the Stedding, the kill on Nolder confirms this.

 

My top are dice and WiFi. Gonna research more into this.

 

 

explain the red please?

 

For now I am in agreement with the bold here, Shad is emulating his Town game to a tee since the AtE yesterday. Had some tinfoil on his interactions with Nolder, thinking they could be easily faked/forced but then remembered Nyn. Probably never voting him tbh.

 

Believer currently at the bottom of this group for me too. 

 

Watching Dice and the reactions around him.  Thoughts and stuff.

 

I don't know WiFi. She needs re-ISO.

 

 

 

Faction kill - strongman - if you submit the faction kill within Tel'Aran'Rhiod and on somebody else within Tel'Aran'Rhiod the kill can not be blocked by protective roles or be roleblocked. You can not submit a strongman kill 2 nights running

 

This implies that a scum in Tel can submit a faction kill on someone not in Tel.

Hm, yes. I concede.

 

I assumed that the NA's would be limited to persons inside your QT. My bad.

 

My analysis is faulty, don't go by it.

 

Believer, my problem with you here is not that your analysis is faulty per se, but that pushing that agenda in the first place has the potential effect/motivation of casting shade on everyone else in the Stedding, and I'm currently reading all of them but you Town or most likely.

 

Your vote against JS counts for something, and I see the possibility that you're Town but you don't just get to coast on that. It could be that JS was throwing shade at you and you caught him out, or it could have been the two of you distancing. You said your play would change D2 and that you wouldn't disappoint. I'll give you that time but we need more thoughts/interactions directed by you on record than just self defence to keep any sort of faith.

 

Who are the remaining wolves?

 

 

Darthe did not say I THINK.

He said a few players never chose including himself.

 

IIRC Dice said something similar in the Stedding. Why is this a problem?

 

 

I wrote this in the QT before Day ended so I'll just post it here. It obviously needs to be updated to include info on NKs but I'll post it anyway

 

--[/size]I’m ready to give Shad a clear atp. He was one of the first to vote Hellion, #877 I’d hard to believe is him like a preparing to bus cuz there’s no freaking way scum are going to bus this OP char until they absolutely have to (Execute, Strongman, Severing, Gladiator wtf). So to me that also means Nolder suddenly has a lot more town equity as 3rd vote. [/size]QED the people super reluctant to vote Hellian or people who didn’t even try are likely scum. I think the chance of a CFD was pretty low given the quality of posts nearing the end and lack of a scum target so it’s likely that the people sticking up for Hellian probably aren’t scum either (Hallia #1117, Cass #1087). Believer could’ve gone with Hellian as a target instead of JS but emphasised not liking JS since he was most obvious target at that point. His other option was probably to jump ship to Hellian but he wouldn’t do that if they’re teammates given the strength of Demandred’s role. [/size]Zass - basically clear atp. First to vote Hellian and kept at it. Swapped and swapped back. Basically clear.[/size]Dice - #944 no read on Hellian.[/size]Pral - “Hellian - Not much to comment here. She is new and I don’t know how she plays. Still don’t know the votes on her.” [/size]His comments at the end of D1 gave him a more town vibe but his I’ll disagree with his reads list even more now. [/size]Darthe - Hasn’t commented on Hellian. Says Dice and Nol look fine after not much content. Could see that as someone acting on TMI.[/size]Believer - #1169. Orly.[/size]WiFi - 9.15 pm Hellian is null #1139. 10.42 pm Hellian is scum. #1196 “That being said I think hellion could be scum, as described in my reads list..” he wasn’t really described as such in your reads, plus this kind of reads insecure about being caught out. [/size]Last 5 people on the train were Kat, Hallia, WiFi, Dice, and Darthe[/size]From this group I’ve got town leans on Dice and Hallia. [/size]Leaves WiFi, Believer, Darthe, and Kat.[/size]I think remaining scum are variation of these 4 but I’d guess Darthe and Believer aren’t W/W.[/size]From the discussion that we had in the QT Hellian could’ve used his execute ability on Believer and cut the day short since it was fairly obvious he was toast with limited time left but he didn’t. Either he just didn’t join the thread at all or he didn’t want to kill Believer for scum mate reasons. Darthe potentially scum slipped in the TAR thread, ISO’ing there’s not a single post towards irt Hellian though he comments on Believer not being around #1232.[/size]Cool with voting Darthe, Believer, or WiFi today.[/size]--[/size]

 

 

Why the bold, especially Hally? IIRC Dice had both John Snow and Hellian in his bottom three but I don't see much from Halleh that clears her?

She freaking claimed Nynaeve.

 

 

Why is that, in itself, more than null? Do you think a Townie is more likely to claim that straight up?

 

 

JS flip does kinda clear Hallia. If she was scum, I doubt JS would bring up a fake claim discussion after his fellow scum fake-claimed. Plus her vote on JS right at the beginning.

 

 

Can't decide on the first bit. Depends if he was drawing attention to it so that he could keep distance. Otoh, I agree that the Halleh and Believer votes on JS mostly look good, they could've gone anywhere. They landed on scum.

 

 

I was YOLOing WiFi Town but now I think I want her to get clearer. I feel like I can see reasons for suspicions and that we've mindmelded a lot but I'm not sure if that's just because she posts every possible thought. Only thing I remember reading out of kilter ITT of the top of my head was the AtE at Zander early on. It felt extreme. Her progression on Hellian/John Snow in a reads list posted in the Stedding has her forgetting Hellian was scum and calling Snow both scum and town.

 

 

"Extreme" "bizarre" "wtf did that just happen?" is kind of villagery for her.  I liked the AtE.  As a wolf she was able, with some coaching, to fake some weird behavior, like not voting the counterwagon when she was lead train (this was planned and used to justify the CFD on Dice), but all-in-all her scum game is a lot more straight-forward, consistent, maybe more logical even.  I'd encourage people to look at BM and compare, keeping in mind that she subbed in and improved as the game went on.

Ok ta. If you can link to that and whatever game you were referencing WolfKat in for comparison I'll love you forever/look at then through the day tomorrow.

 

Bed time now.