Who/what killed Barthanes?

[Silver]

When Thom finds Dena dead, the innkeeper tells him that Barthanes is dead, ripped to pieces. Now obviously, I think gholam when i hear that. But it's only book 2 and I don't think the gholam has been released yet. Plus there's no mention of lack of blood.

 

Also, it doesn't seem to be the work of normal darkfriends, not the total mutaltion of a body. Sort of sounds like trolloc work but all the trollocs are gone by that time.

 

And i know it can't be Fain because he already went through the waygate and the very next chapter it mentions him my Falme.

 

Only thing left I can think of is a channeler, possibly a Forsaken? But I don't see the purpose of killing him, and in such a disturbing manner.

[Graendals favourite]

I have no idea. I remember vaguely thinking years ago, that the watcher that Rand felt watching in Fal Dara at beginning of the book and then at Barthanes' garden might have something to do with it. Though I don't remember if it was resolved what caused the feeling to Rand, was it Fain or Moiraine or something else. And if it was some Shadowspawn, why didn't we see it? However, whoever it was, they must have heard Barthanes give Rand Fain's message, or because he helped Fain, it might have been known at that point that Fain was disobeying orders since he didn't bring himself and the horn to the Blight. Perhaps it was Lanfear, Uno after all saw her before that and she had been following Rand.

[Graendals favourite]

Aah, I reread the trip to Barthanes' garden, and it is unclear. Mat said "The only thing I've sensed is that somebody's watching me, most of the time." And then when hopping out of the enclosure, Rand "for a moment he thought he saw something move, heard a boot scrape on the brick walk, but neither was repeated, and he dismissed it as nervousness" which means that someone was definitely watching them, though it isn't necessarily linked to the Fal Dara watcher.

 

Adding in yet, its seems both Rand and Mat at least can sense a creature of the DO watching them, taking in the Myrddraal and raven in Emond's Field and the Grey Man in Fal Dara.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I figure it is the/a Gholam. We have no idea when or how it/they was/were released. Just because the lack of blood isn't specifically discussed doesn't mean it couldn't be the/a Gholam.

[Guest Barmacral]

Then it would have to be a different Gholam, as Sammael found his in a statis box... of course, this could explain the Gholam that killed Herad Fel.

[Hannah Banana]

Then it would have to be a different Gholam' date=' as Sammael found his in a statis box... of course, this could explain the Gholam that killed Herad Fel.[/quote']

 

But again, we don't know when Sammael found his gholam. As soon as they were released, the Forsaken might have made it a priority to look for stasis boxes. (How so many of they managed to stumble across them/what they are is a different topic.) Sammael was released and showed up in Tear the winter before TDR, and you figure he had to have at least some time to situate himself after being released. He may have found his stasis box before he ever went to Illian. We just don't know.

 

Besides, Barthanes death is not like Asmo's, where we had to have read about the killer by the time they made the kill.

 

That being said, I don't know if it was the gholam or not. Seems kind of an extreme measure to kill a random Darkfriend for plain old failure.

[PrinceOfRavens]

didnt Sammael go to Illion and Be'lal to Tear?

[Hannah Banana]

didnt Sammael go to Illion and Be'lal to Tear?

 

Yeah' date=' sorry. Mistype.[/color']

[PrinceOfRavens]

no prob:P you know more then me of WOT i think :)

[Kaznen]

It could be Luc/Isam. There was a reference to them in the earlier chapters, and we know he is a DF assasian.

 

I personally thought it was an agent sent from the king. When Rand came to Carahien he was watched by every noble because they thought he was there for Andor. A spy or something. No one bought that he was just "passing through."

 

Dena was killed because Thom was seen talking to Rand at the party. And you don't talk to the "help" in that city.

 

Barthanes was also seen talking to Rand. Because every one was so jumpy they thought the two of them were in cahoots.

 

Plus given Rand's ta'verness were early in the books he left chaos in his wake, I thought Barthanes was just killed by some politcal rival for politcal reasons.

[Luckers]

It doesn't fit Slayer's style.

 

And also, we do not know that Sammael found his Gholam. He could merely have comendeered the use of an active Gholam.

[Kaznen]

I personally don't think it was slayer. I was just throwing that out there.

[Guest Barmacral]

It doesn't fit Slayer's style.

 

And also' date=' we do not know that Sammael found his Gholam. He could merely have comendeered the use of an active Gholam.[/quote']

 

Hmmm, are you sure? I had thought that Sammael had commented on finding his gholam in a statis box... I suppose that I could be wrong though.

[algspkr]

It doesn't fit Slayer's style.

 

And also' date=' we do not know that Sammael found his Gholam. He could merely have comendeered the use of an active Gholam.[/quote']

 

Hmmm, are you sure? I had thought that Sammael had commented on finding his gholam in a statis box... I suppose that I could be wrong though.

I think most people take it as implied because Sammael said something like "you never know if you might find a gholam in a statis box"

[Hannah Banana]

Sammael tells Caridin that he will send "someone" to help him with the Aes Sedai. We later learn this is the gholam who shows up at the six-story house. But it's Birgitte, later on, who theorizes that the gholam must have survived in a stasis box (which Mat then passes on as his own info).

 

But if Sammael did not find the gholam in a stasis box, and thus presumably having some sort of exclusive control over it, then why hadn't the other Forsaken utilized its services? Until after Sammael was dead?

[RobertAlexWillis]

why hadn't the other Forsaken utilized its services?

 

How do we know they didnt? Perhaps another Forsaken ordered the deaths of Barthanes and Herid Fel.

[Hannah Banana]

why hadn't the other Forsaken utilized its services?

 

How do we know they didnt? Perhaps another Forsaken ordered the deaths of Barthanes and Herid Fel.

 

Because none of them' date=' to my knowledge, has even acknowledged the existence of this gholam, let alone remarked anything slightly suspicious. IIRC. Until I read a POV wherein one of them says that they have sent the gholam off on some task, I remain skeptical.

 

Too many IFs on this line of reasoning, in any case.[/color']

[Luckers]

Herid Fel himself is evidence. There was no reason for Sammael to wish Fel dead... that is much more the provence of Moridin. Certainly the location of a Gholam in Caemlyn does not fit Sammael, in fact it far more likely fits it being SENT to Sammael, or having later been comendeered by Sammael.

 

Also, since we have not seen POV evidence from all Forsaken abstaining such knowledge, the lack of POV evidence is a moot point. The reality is we know little of how Sammael came by that Gholam.