[Standard] Chrono Trigger Mafia - Town wins Day 5!

[Zander?]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:11 PM, Yates said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 3:59 PM, Zander said:

What do you think of him questioning me for not having a solid read on him but he's fine with you doing the same?

I think he has a lot more history with me than he does with you. Completely null.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Let me put what you are asking me into perspective. Would you [did you] get on my case if I told you that you are playing this game differently from what I expect so I can't clear you as Town yet? No. Why not? Because you know that you ARE playing differently from what you know I would expect so it doesn't bother you as Town/isn't something you can really challenge if you are minority Town. But if AJ made a similar observation you might probe him because wtf does he know? He doesn't have the same meta relationship with you as I have.

 

 

So shouldnt that lead him to believe you should have a better understanding of his game then I should?

 

I mean my biggest problem is that during my reread I started questioning him as I had a better handle on what was going on.  I started this before his train really started to build but what concerns me is hes only calling me on it when others have said as much or voted him.

 

I am playing differently and iirc i mentioned the games to look at to see the change.  I got flack over my excessive post count in GnD so I adjusted my play.  Im not worried that you cant clear me as Town yet because you havent read (I dont think) those games.

 

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:13 PM, Yates said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 3:54 PM, Yates said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 3:52 PM, Zander said:

JFC Yates you should have a read on AJ by now.  Or maybe were both total noobs?

Read the post above this. It's not like AJ is an easy read right now.

 

Sorry. Just got the context. Didn't realize this was a joke. lololololololololololol

 

 

[Yates]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:06 PM, Turin Turambar said:

I mostly use my phone so when I have access to my computer and some time available I will try to make my case as well as I can. I guess sometimes that can look spinny so maybe. I guess your POV will in part determine your perception.

This is admitting to being a narrative poster afaic. Which is fine, but you need to know there's a danger in it in that your interpretation of events is based on an incomplete picture and thus prone to inaccuracy. As much as you hate the Despo comparison, it isn't wrong. Think about how often Despot made bad reads because his interpretation was so lolbad. I've been on the receiving end of some Despot wot narrative posts that were so wrong they were almost insulting.

 

I'm not going to defend Dice because he isn't a Town read and I may even end up voting him. However, I will say that your interpretation of the very first paragraph in your spoiler is 180 degrees from mine.

[Yates]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:21 PM, Zander said:

This is funnier than you think. Hit me up on Skype if you see me.

 

[@mods - it's NOT game related!]

[Yates]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:21 PM, Zander said:

So shouldnt that lead him to believe you should have a better understanding of his game then I should?

Yes. And that's my point. BECAUSE I understand his game, HE knows why I'm not reading HIM as Town in the same way YOU know why I'm not reading YOU as Town. Follow?

[Andrej]

Zander, I know exactly where Yates's head is at.

 

He's right, we have a deeper history and a better understanding.

 

In the context of this game, we haven't interacted as much as you and I have. And he's able to pinpoint what's off about me to him. Can you do that? We've had much more running dialogue so when you are ambiguous it's a problem.

[Zander?]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:26 PM, Andrej said:

Zander, I know exactly where Yates's head is at.

 

He's right, we have a deeper history and a better understanding.

 

In the context of this game, we haven't interacted as much as you and I have. And he's able to pinpoint what's off about me to him. Can you do that? We've had much more running dialogue so when you are ambiguous it's a problem.

 

 

Maybe you should take a second to think as to why Im doing what Im doing.

[Yates]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:19 PM, Leelou said:

On my phone, but question for AJ.

Morning!

 

Hey - how much experience do you have with Turin? Should I be concerned about his Dice spin or does that strike you as normal?

[Turin Turambar]

@Yates, my point was that I try to explain my POV and how I got to think about what I think. I admit I can be very wrong some times (see Tina's game, LOL). 

 

I think that one thing you won't ever see from me tho is the post lynch blaming of the lynchee. That is really the part of Despo's game that irked me the most. 

 

You read some of it differently from me. That is fair. My attempt to "spin" is to show where I am coming from. So since we disagree then it doesn't get all crazy.

[Leelou]

I'm going to try to pop in before deadline to vote, but I'm not sure what is on the agenda for today.

 

People I'm not willing to vote today: Verbal, Tina, Nolder and Turin. Yates is creeping his way into that list.

[Andrej]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:19 PM, Leelou said:

On my phone, but question for AJ.

 

What case do you like being built on Dice? A lot of your posts feel like you are more trying to conform. Especially after you said the case Turin made on Dice could have Turin as scummy for spinning.

it's not really a case so much as a lot of people speaking up saying there's something wrong with him. I am not so proud that I don't think I could be wrong in my personal reads, so I can see how that could be conforming.

 

Turin's post is pretty narrative heavy imo. I should probably think of that as more null for him, and as I stated because of how he cases I'll need to get some flips from his suspects.

[Leelou]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:28 PM, Yates said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:19 PM, Leelou said:

On my phone, but question for AJ.

Morning!

 

Hey - how much experience do you have with Turin? Should I be concerned about his Dice spin or does that strike you as normal?

It's been a while since I've played with him, but I'm not concerned as of now. I'm not getting a slimy feeling from him.

[BFG]

Votecount

 

Dicetosser1 (2/7): Turin, Lenlo

AJ (3/7): Nolder, TinaHel, Verb

Nolder (1/7): Hallia

 

Not Voting (6): AJ, Dice, Leelou, Thane, Yates, Zander

 

 

[BFG]

Please note that I'm phone posting :) if I've missed any votes/unvotes it's unintentional and I'd appreciate it if you could link or quote the relevant post <3

[Leelou]

  On 2/26/2016 at 3:32 PM, Verbal32 said:

Was that at the point of the post, or doesn't it show an updated time based on when you open the page?

 

 

#mightbeastupidquestion

Dunno if anyone answered you but it updated when you refresh the page.

[BFG]

The countdown updates if you refresh, underneath is the deadline in different time zones :)

[Yates]

@Turin

 

For Turn's eyes only:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Is your name Turin?

->If yes, click to open spoiler.

->If no, do not click to open spoiler.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Here's an example of where I think you are spinning:

  On 2/26/2016 at 8:38 AM, Turin Turambar said:

 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:19 PM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:15 PM, TinaHel said:

 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:09 PM, dicetosser1 said:

hi Tina hugs  hows u?

 

 

Do i have to lynch you this game?

 

*hugs*

 

I´m fine. I´m having a week off. Wonderful. You?

 

It depends on your alignment. If you are town you should not lynch me.

 

 

 

im good.

 

Right so no lynching tina then :D  lets smash the wolves together then hun

 

This little bit was prefaced by Tina voting Dice with basically no reason and then asking him for his take on AJ in what read to me as a joking manner...

Dice's response reads as pure buddying to me. Hugs in direct response to the vote but with a bit of bite. Tina basically claims "Town" at him and he immediately goes back to treating her as town. Seems weird to me.

 

I don't understand how you can read this series of posts and walk away thinking they are scummy ON THEIR OWN. If one of them flips scum? THEN you can revisit and start looking for intent/spew. This reads 100% like two friends entering the game and having some friendly banter. Pretty sure I've done this as Town with at least 1/2 this player list. And, frankly, I think I've done this as Town MORE than as Scum. So this comes across as confirmation bias. You think Dice is scum so you see scum intent in everything. And that's pretty easy to do.

 

I'll let Dice address the rest of the post on his own but that's just one place that I think your narrative looks bad.

 

 

 

[Leelou]

Still waiting on Hallia to explain that Yates spot read thing. There was no definitive space showing it was a joke or whatnot in her post that she asked me to look for, she even listed him first. So...was that whole post a joke or were the 2 townish ones real?

[Andrej]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:06 PM, Turin Turambar said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 3:10 PM, Andrej said:

Nolder is town but just derping hard and making up false tells to compensate for his lack of reading.

 

Yates is probably town.

 

Verb is probably town just disappointingly weak town. Like a limp noodle ;-)

 

Tina looks a little better but she's one I would need to keep the heat on because she'll ghost out as scum.

 

Zander seems to be slowly trying to gear up into voting me, but wants to show the work first. I don't like this.

 

Hallia is a coin toss. She looks scummy imo but I can never tell.

 

Thane looks okay but he's fooled me early on before.

 

Lenlo is another I would push for continual content, he what he gave so far was decent.

 

Leelou hasn't said much because busy but she seemed okay.

 

Dice I admittedly don't want to see as scum. However the case building against him does have merit and the more people chime in the more I am forced to think I am just wrong.

 

Turin is remarkably more diplomatic with me than how I remember him in the past, but maybe he's just not being an a-hole which I can appreciate. Content seems okay, would need to see some flips on those he's cased before I would lock him in as town.

I highlighted the three people you said you were willing to vote:

Z in effect because you think he is "building up to a vote". Is that different from where you are with Dice?

Hallia although you don't seem to be giving a real reason.

Dice who you are being swayed on.

 

I am actively trying to be more diplomatic during all these games because 1.) I am generally more happy so I find I just don't need the junk. 2.) I was recently put thru the wringer on a game and I decided that I didn't want to be on the delivering end of that kind of stuff.

Put the way you did regarding Zander kind of puts things more into perspective for me. You're right though, and I think that's a pretty fair and objective observation. I'm still bothered by it, ftr. I would also note that I actually did take a stance on Dice when asked, however.

 

Hallia kind of makes her own scum case. Unexplained reads, poorly answered questions, out of the blue votes. General absence. Sadly I can't point to any of this and say it's a sure fire scum tell. Hence coin flip.

 

Dice I am still a little reluctant on, even now. He needs to come in here and start posting though so maybe I can resolve it. He's certainly not playing from how I'm used to and that's a cause of concern but I would hate for him to be town and got lynched because he wanted to play around a bit at the beginning of the game.

[Yates]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:43 PM, Leelou said:

Still waiting on Hallia to explain that Yates spot read thing. There was no definitive space showing it was a joke or whatnot in her post that she asked me to look for, she even listed him first. So...was that whole post a joke or were the 2 townish ones real?

I think she has explained it about as much as she is going to.

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 4:08 AM, Hallia said:

I wanna give spot reads -

 

Yates - town

[bLANK SPACE]

Zander & AJ - townish

I believe what she is trying to say is that that blank space between me and her "townish" reads is supposed to be the space she is talking about. I agree that I don't see how that makes it more clear that it was a joke. I can also easily see this as revisionist history since that is completely indistinguishable from a "normal" reads list where your Towniest Town is on top then Town-ish would be below and there is often a space between the two.

 

I think the more damning part is Hally's lack of thread presence. It is a proven fact that Hally doesn't like to play as scum and is, thus, more reluctant to post. THAT is why I will likely ultimately vote for her barring some super awesome catch up post.

[Yates]

We cross posted but I agree with this assessment of Halia's play and suggest it's less a coin flip and more 4 sides of a regular die come up Hally!Scum roll:

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:48 PM, Andrej said:

Hallia kind of makes her own scum case. Unexplained reads, poorly answered questions, out of the blue votes. General absence. Sadly I can't point to any of this and say it's a sure fire scum tell. Hence coin flip.

The bold is of particular concern as pointed out above.

[Leelou]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:49 PM, Yates said:

 

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:43 PM, Leelou said:

Still waiting on Hallia to explain that Yates spot read thing. There was no definitive space showing it was a joke or whatnot in her post that she asked me to look for, she even listed him first. So...was that whole post a joke or were the 2 townish ones real?

I think she has explained it about as much as she is going to.

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 4:08 AM, Hallia said:

I wanna give spot reads -

 

Yates - town

[bLANK SPACE]

Zander & AJ - townish

I believe what she is trying to say is that that blank space between me and her "townish" reads is supposed to be the space she is talking about. I agree that I don't see how that makes it more clear that it was a joke. I can also easily see this as revisionist history since that is completely indistinguishable from a "normal" reads list where your Towniest Town is on top then Town-ish would be below and there is often a space between the two.

 

I think the more damning part is Hally's lack of thread presence. It is a proven fact that Hally doesn't like to play as scum and is, thus, more reluctant to post. THAT is why I will likely ultimately vote for her barring some super awesome catch up post.

You know, I'm actually trying to get Hallia to engage and explain that space thing.

[Turin Turambar]

@Yates, You aren't me. I know I see things differently than many people that play this game. I play in a different manner than most. Frankly it felt to me like hiding behind the jokey nature to nudge at Tina whilst buddying her. 

 

It may be that I just came out of a game that I suspected a player who was buddying me. I noted and kept track of him but let other players distract me and I ended up getting lynched with both the buddyier and his mafia partner piling on me to complete the job. 

 

So yeah. I'm an odd duck I guess.

[Hallia]

P7

Nolder – Voted Tina, but used the excuse “Buddying Leelou”  This does not feel like a real vote to me.

Tina responded in the next post.  Turin even acknowledges that she clarified.

  On 2/25/2016 at 7:43 AM, Nolder said:

[v]Tina[/v]

 

Buddying Leelou

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 8:24 AM, TinaHel said:

How is my post different than others in the game. For example Dice answer to my vote? 

 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:09 PM, dicetosser1 said:

hi Tina hugs  hows u?

 

 

Do i have to lynch you this game?

 

Why did you decide to vote me?

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 2:03 PM, TinaHel said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 1:48 PM, Turin Turambar said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 8:24 AM, TinaHel said:

How is my post different than others in the game. For example Dice answer to my vote? 
 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:09 PM, dicetosser1 said:

hi Tina hugs  hows u?
 
 
Do i have to lynch you this game?

 
Why did you decide to vote me?

 

Erm, He didn't vote you?  You voted him. 

 

 

Exactly. I voted him, he answered with a hug. Leelou voted me and I did the same. So I wonder why Nolder picked me. 

 

 

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 2:08 PM, Turin Turambar said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 2:03 PM, TinaHel said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 1:48 PM, Turin Turambar said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 8:24 AM, TinaHel said:

How is my post different than others in the game. For example Dice answer to my vote? 
 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:09 PM, dicetosser1 said:

hi Tina hugs  hows u?
 
 
Do i have to lynch you this game?

 
Why did you decide to vote me?

 

Erm, He didn't vote you?  You voted him. 

 

 

Exactly. I voted him, he answered with a hug. Leelou voted me and I did the same. So I wonder why Nolder picked me. 

 

Oh, I didn't get that you were asking Nolder. Makes more sense that way I suppose. A bit "why me?" but understandable. 

 

Thanks AJ, I never know when I'm being out of touch. Old and feeble minded, LOL.

 

 

P8

I comment on AJ’s lvl of involvement, and I liked it because he is one of the few really engaged players at this point.

I also will say at this point; I would not lynch Turin.  He is also engaged, and making points that are understandable.

Regarding the Dice pushing Zander thing, I think it was meant in jest, especially considering our recent bonding over BattleTanks – I have Dice as town.

Yates – Yes, I was just saying hello.  It was spaced away from my actual reads, maybe not enough, but it was.

 

 

 

P9

Zander being towny Zander. 

For people who are gut/tone readers, I would say it is easy to have these by that point in the game, but I think Verb and I already communicated about this later in the thread (P10)

  On 2/25/2016 at 7:27 PM, Verbal32 said:

Dice, how do you have "tone" reads already?  Regardless of alignment, people are messing around to begin with......yet you're reading them based on tone?

 

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 8:04 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 7:50 PM, Hallia said:

Aj I agree. ITS SHOCKING

Yeah.

Btw I thought Yates asked you some legitimate questions earlier. Could you respond?

 

@AJ – I did, but I have here in this post as well.  See above.

 

 

P10:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 8:18 PM, Yates said:

I'm also a little worried about AJ. It's been a while but he seems off as well. Not going to expand on that at this point in time.

@Yates – Will you later?

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 9:47 PM, Nolder said:

I'd like to double down on my Tina vote and call for more votes on her.

She didn't even react when I voted her, completely ignored it.

Thought maybe she just missed it but she ended up posting more later so I don't see how she could have.

 

Ignoring the vote reads to me like she's nervous and doesn't want to discuss buddying.

Maybe I actually hit the nail on the head there lol who knows?

Anyway if I'm right more votes will obviously make her more nervous and force her to address it.

 

Anyone with me?

 

And here is what I do not like from Nolder.  I didn’t see your vote on Tina as serious, and if it had been me, I wouldn’t have responded either.  I think you might be overreaching.

  On 2/25/2016 at 10:05 PM, Lenlo said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 9:48 PM, Nolder said:

You should all change your avatars to Mario Kart characters.

 

Do it.

Edit one with my mask onto it and ill wear it for you. Till then im wearing what Pizza made me.

 

Im gonna read again but im kinda weirded out by whats happening.

 

So Nolder your basis is that because she ignored your vote, you want more votes on her?

 

The tone thing is eh to me. I see where Verb is comin from, because the jokes and stuff arnt the best place to get reads. Thing is thats almost all we have to go on at this point and we do still have to lynch someone D1. So if theres nothing else to go off of, use what you got.

 

@Len – Exactly.  We go off what we have, and as it grows, make more informed reads.

  On 2/25/2016 at 10:18 PM, Andrej said:

@Nolder - Tina did address your vote fwiw.

That said its a wagon I could potentially get behind.

 

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 10:39 PM, Nolder said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 10:18 PM, Andrej said:

@Nolder - Tina did address your vote fwiw.

That said its a wagon I could potentially get behind.

Where? I'm sure she didn't.

 

 

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 10:44 PM, Andrej said:

 

  On 2/25/2016 at 8:24 AM, TinaHel said:

How is my post different than others in the game. For example Dice answer to my vote? 
 

  On 2/24/2016 at 9:09 PM, dicetosser1 said:

hi Tina hugs  hows u?
 
 
Do i have to lynch you this game?

 
Why did you decide to vote me?

I'm pretty sure she's addressing you here, Nolder.

 

 

AJ – Alert AJ is alert.

 

 

Continuing!

[Hallia]

@ Everyone - 

 

I just said I was rereading, didn't I?  -.- Let me finish and I will respond in real time.

[Yates]

  On 2/26/2016 at 4:59 PM, Turin Turambar said:

@Yates, You aren't me. I know I see things differently than many people that play this game.

Turin - I totally get this. What I'm trying to tell you is that your interpretation requires a lot of assumptions in order to be true. I prefer the Occam's Razor approach until/unless I have OTHER very strong evidence to substantiate my assumptions.

 

In your case, it piqued my interest because it can come across as a tunnel, throwing shade or - worst of all - misrepresenting the game. It's also something that can easily be hidden behind by scum in the event their chosen mislynch goes through because you can't DISPROVE a thought process/state of mind [at least not without extraordinary effort].