Avi's Kids

[Violent Ogier]

I used to come to these boards, then dropped out for a while, but I'm back now, and i've got a theory:

 

Rand is a hero. (I guess thats debatable, but as a general rule of thumb, anybody that is destined to save the world, is destined to be a hero.) Hence, the He will be bound to the horn. (This is why I believe the horn is crucial to the last battle; Matt sounds it once Rand dies, and Rand comes back.) If Rand is bound to the horn, Rand will be stored in Dreamland (tel'aran'rhiod). Since we know that mortals can interact with heroes of the horn in Dreamworld (see Birgette), and we also know Avi can enter Dreamworld via ter'angreal its possible that children can be concieved there. And personally, I believe if a baby is concieved in a different universe (or whatever tel'aran'rhiod is) there might be some side effects. Maybe good ones, maybe bad ones. Hence the difference.

 

I could be wrong, but I think the overall theory is intact.

[Zardi]

Except I don't see how in the world anyone could concieve while in T'a'r. Egwene couldn't even wish her bruises away when she entered in the flesh on her way to Salidar: they returned once she had arrived and exited the dream world. So how could a human, either in the flesh or in sleep, and a bodyless soul concieve a child?

[bratr]

i dont know maybe the kids would be concieved in tought. (hmmm Avi would have kids when she wanted to and could have none if they annoyed her not bad lol)

:D :D :D

[Wolfsbane]

The Dragon is bound to the Wheel, not the Horn.

It is necessary for the Dragon to be spun out in the World's greatest need for him, not when someone blows the Horn.

What a trump card. Oh, the DO is breaking out. Blow the Horn, here comes all the greatest warriors of all the Legends.. AND the Dragon. Sucks to be you.

An interesting idea instead would be that Rand gets attached to the Horn, and Avi/Egwene/Cadsuanne/Nyn/Moi/Anyone uses what Moghedian did to Birgitte and pulls him into the land of the living.

Now, I just viewed this as a hell of a lot better idea, cause there's remotely plausible possibilities.. but Rand wouldn't get attached to the Horn, and most likely, he wouldn't be Rand any more. Birgitte doesn't look like Birgitte each time she is reborn, neither does the Dragon. What he'd look like, bound, and in his true form would probably be much different from what he is now.

 

That they'll be marked as Clan Leaders for the Aiel would be cool.. I'm partial to the taint on saidin coming out thru Avi's kids and we have evil in the world still.

Oh those evil tainted sperm.

 

that's enough, I've got to get my gorgeous self to bed. later

 

-wolfs

[Luckers]

The people attatched to the horn are those bound to the wheel. Near as i can tell the horn seems to be artificial... a construct that taps into that feature of the wheel.

[Inara]

the wheel spins the dragon out to face the DO, if the dragon is alive, then the horn cannot summon him.

mat and perrin are also wheel/horn-bound. the gambler and the wolf king.

 

the horn can theoretically be used at any time, so if the horn were to be blown in the middle of the cycle, before the dragon was born, he would appear.

[Wolfsbane]

I found it odd that Artur Hawkwing in TGH remarked only at Rand being LTT, and his being bound to the wheel, and not at Perrin or Mat. Mat was the horn sounder, not the Gambler, Perrin was the Bannerman, not the Wolf King.

There is no proof that the Dragon is anyway bound to the Horn in the same sense the Heroes of Legend are bound to it. When Hawkwing remarked that they had faced one another many times, it was in their various incarnations in the past, not Hawkwing Incarn. vs. Dragon bound to the Horn, or vice-versa. But we are getting away from the discussion of Avi's offspring.

We haven't seen Avi and Rand getting it on since their Igloo of Love nor had any idea of Avi meeting up with Rand after Min's reading of her (when Elayne got preggers, hence Avi should be further along than Elayne if Avi got pregant before the reading). So in the last book we have probably a chance for some background of Rand and Avi getting it on, or, more likely, we'll have a truely Arthurian bad guy (somewhere RJ likes to pull from quite a bit) and it's Demandred disguised as Rand.

 

It would give us some respect for Dem being a true badass nutjob, a future problem after TG like RJ likes to promise us (not EVERYTHING is gonna be solved in MoL peeps), and a warrant for Rand to mess him up.

Good stuff.

 

-wolfs

[dicetosser1]

im not sure why but ever since i read that ive been thinking it had something to do with the green man.

 

Also could the whole first sister/brother thing have something to do with it??

[dreago]

Min said it was odd, like she was seeing something diffrently(my opinion). So, what if she saw her children, and Elaynes, through Avi(she cant see her own aura) via bond through Rand. That woul allow for four healthy children but still be odd.

[keravon3]

maby just maby an unfoutunat ocurances with a ter'angreal Avi's kids will all be born as homafrodites able to channal saidin and saidar whilst not apearing to chanal at all(imagin the advantagers they would have against other channelers)

 

Thay may also have somthing to do with events after TG eg. control of land, contact with sahar and lands of mad men

 

another posibility is that they will be able to channal from birth rather that from maturity

[Ilyena]

Hey Guys,

Sorry i haven't been on for a while to check up on my post. Looks like some great ideas have sprung up tho. I like the idea I heard a while ago that when Rand fights Moridin, they'll end up switching bodies, and Moridine and LTT both get blasted by that Sean Chan chick... And Rand lives but inside what was once Moridin.

As for the Perrin and Mat bound to the horn, I think we can all agree that even if they were never bound to it before hand they will be after WoT series. They're both big heroes!!

Avi and Rand... Good call with the demandred being evil and sleeping with avi, tho I doubt she would fall for it, that's one tuff woman!

Maybe it'll be like Avi, Elayne, and Min get fussed to Ilyena, and if Min and Elayne are both preggers with twins, and they're born from one mom because all 3 chicks were fussed... or something.

I like the fussed idea, because RJ could pull a Fionavar Tapastry idea, and send the main suffering hero and his reincarnated chick gf on a boat to the stars to be at peace.

Keep the ideas coming!

[KaptainKaos]

I used to come to these boards' date=' then dropped out for a while, but I'm back now, and i've got a theory:

 

Rand is a hero. (I guess thats debatable, but as a general rule of thumb, anybody that is destined to save the world, is destined to be a hero.) Hence, the He will be bound to the horn. (This is why I believe the horn is crucial to the last battle; Matt sounds it once Rand dies, and Rand comes back.) If Rand is bound to the horn, Rand will be stored in Dreamland (tel'aran'rhiod). Since we know that mortals can interact with heroes of the horn in Dreamworld (see Birgette), and we also know Avi can enter Dreamworld via ter'angreal its possible that children can be concieved there. And personally, I believe if a baby is concieved in a different universe (or whatever tel'aran'rhiod is) there might be some side effects. Maybe good ones, maybe bad ones. Hence the difference.

 

I could be wrong, but I think the overall theory is intact.[/quote']

 

Some parts of this theory are interesting maybe things won't happen exactly this way or for these reasons but if you go into tel'aran'rhiod and get hurt you come out with the identical marks. Rand even found a thorn from tel'aran'rhiod in his arm when he woke up remember. Not to get too indecent but why not Avienda have something left from tel'aran'rhiod in her? Might be way off but hey you gotta explore every possibility when trying to figure out some of the foreshadowing in this series.

[Luckers]

On the other hand Rand's experience comes from someone directly manipulating his dreams. Since then we have seen for sure that constructs of tel'aran'rhiod can leave. RJ confirmed this in one of his blogs recently. This makes me doubt Avi could get out of the World of Dreams with Rand's genetic information, in tact.

 

Then theres the question of whether a soul HAS any genetic information. My belief is that the strangeness will come from the fact that the kids will be concieved by Rand in Moridin's body.

[drakhon]

"Aviendha would have Rand’s babies, too. Four of them at once! Something was odd about that, though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."

 

The wording implies that there is something odd about the fact that she would have four babies at once, not that there is something odd about the babies.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Luckers did you mean that constructs of Tel'aran'rhiod canNOT leave? Because that's what I thought ....

[Luckers]

Lol, yeah i did.

 

And perhaps... the flow does not necessarily link the comment to the number, though they follow along directly after that comment.

[drakhon]

I wasn't really referring to the flow, more using "that" instead of "them".

 

However, looking at it again, using "The babies" instead of "They" in the last sentence seems to indicate that the previous sentence was referring to the fact, not the babies.

 

"Something was odd about them, though. The babies would be healthy..."

The flow seems hampered to me if both sentences are referencing the same thing.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Unfortunately syntax is not always conducive to flow. Particularly in narrative sentence fragments, consecutive fragments must be treated as fragments of the same sentence. In this case, the entire phrase, "Aviendha would have Rand’s babies, too. Four of them at once!" is made into the object of "Something odd" by the word "that". So the "oddness" could be in Aviendha having the babies at all, the way in which they she would have them, in the nature of the babies themselves, the fact of the number to be born, or that fact that they would be born at once. The syntax doesn't indicate any particular one, and no external evidence has been given yet.

[Luckers]

Robert took the words right out of my mouth. Said 'em better too.

[drakhon]

So the "oddness" could be in Aviendha having the babies at all, the way in which they she would have them, in the nature of the babies themselves, the fact of the number to be born, or that fact that they would be born at once.

 

I don't claim to have any great knowledge of these things, but I still think that in order for the oddness to refer to the babies themselves, he would have had to use "them" instead of "that". Even if that is not the case, I think he would have used "them" if that was his intended meaning.

 

Any of the other options you've listed seem possible, however, but each time that I have read that passage the first thing that has come to mind was the first-sister bond somehow causing Min to see both Elayne's babies and Avi's in association with Avi.

 

Iffy, at best, but it's what came to mind.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm afraid I have to claim great knowledge of these things, since I specialized in functional linguistics in college. The syntax makes the reference imprecise.

[drakhon]

Point taken.

 

To be clear, though, the only possibility I was discounting was the nature of the babies themselves.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I know ... but that possibility is not discounted or included by Min's statement(s) ... their structure is just too open.

[racha_giurgiu]

"Aviendha would have Rand’s babies' date=' too. Four of them at once! Something was odd [b']about that[/b], though. The babies would be healthy, but still something odd."

 

The wording implies that there is something odd about the fact that she would have four babies at once, not that there is something odd about the babies.

 

The wording is vague on what "that" refers to and it would have to be asked if "four of them" or "at once" is what is being referenced in the preceding statement. It could go either way: the four of them being odd or at once being (the birthing) being odd. It then goes on to say "the babies would be healthy, but still something odd." She seems more concerened with something about the babies themselves being odd though the oddity does not affect their health. I lean towards the babies themselves having something odd about them since that is what she comes back to in her second reference to "odd."

 

Racha