[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[LilyElizabeth]

General thoughts, I'm mostly trying to not comment on stuff that's already been commented on

 

Nyn says pretty much everything I thought about Pral

 

Zander - given I've subbed in for Sooh twice as town I'm going to ignore that aspect of it. Can you point me to games in which she builds cases as mafia? I don't recall that from Star Wars or American Gods, she seemed more passive and added to other peoples case rather than started her own

 

Lily - would you still have voted Nolder if it you'd realised it was hybrid hammer?

 

I'm unsure as to why Laine is so angry/annoyed at being asked to explain her vote on her at that point third strongest read as to 'if it matters' well, yes, the same way Sooh voting Nolder over Zander 'matters' /shrug

 

Probably not, but he did piss me off with that refusal to claim. So, maybe. I know, really definitive answer there. lol

[Turin Turambar]

fine. I have about 1 more hour today before I.will be mostly.unavailable. it appears everyone just wants to ridicule me at this point. I am just going to sit in the corner so it will be easier to reread this section later.

 

Any real questions I will try to answer. I've already claimed. That isn't changing but this taunting crap is a waste of time and only will.make the thread harder to reread.

[alannalynn]

I can't even right now. I literally don't care why Turin 1 died. And Turin 2 saying theres potentially no doc is anti town at best. Wtf man.

 

Yes I'm willing to lynch thane but we have a wolf in our sights already

[alannalynn]

Turin, why are you town?

[bgrishinko]

 

. I do see glossing, taunting and misrepping coming from Z+Laine+Nyn though which isn't real helpful.

 

Excuse you?!?

 

Please show me where I'm misrepping Truin. As far as taunting goes? You gonna say dumb things? I'm gonna make fun of you. Deal with it.

 

 

Apologies, I lumped 3 people together with 3 attributes. Laine has been glossing and taunting. She even has said she wasn't reading the thread that much earlier in the day. Z has been misrepping in my opinion and taunting. You've just been taunting.

 

I can't conceive how you think it's OKAY to have everyone short of BFG in his WTL. He literally moved to Thane for NO REASON but to promote a competing train to his OWN TRAIN.

 

I mean.... seriously. WTF BG?

 

What would you do if you were the only train and town? Thane was on Turin 1's list. Entering into logic mode:

 

Scenario 1: Town!Turin - His reads are essentially unchanged from Turin 1.0, no reason to change. After the NK, Thane is a lower priority than others he finds more scummy. He gives an updated reads list based on interaction with Nolder and Turin 1. His train builds unreasonably fast without a lot of reason given. To make the most of it, Turin places vote on Thane to gain info from competing trains.

 

Scenario 2: Mafia!Turin - Sooh made life more difficult than needed, so Turin needs to double down on some of Turin 1's opinions to keep the same status quo of people trusting him. He strategically re-works the list, including removing Thane from that list. Later on his train builds super fast and Turin needs to do something so what's a dying mafia to do? Well, with all votes scattered except his own, the best he can do is try and throw out some WIFOM. Possibly bus a teammate. Turin dies pushing the lynch of Thane. 

 

In both scenario's I see Thane as mafia still. Again, Occam's Razor makes me thing the first scenario is more likely.

[LilyElizabeth]

Turin was big on lecturing us all about competing trains on D1. Now he re-enters the game in Sooh's slot and keeps with the tune of competing trains. While I agree that competing trains are always good, I think it's a lot more important for your vote to reflect your reads. I feel like he's using the whole competing train deal to save his own neck. He just basically voted out of his suspect list cause... competing trains. But then adds that he finds EVERYONE suspicious, except the one person he knows he's never gonna be able to lynch (ie BFG). So basically he has his options open to lynch anyone in the game. THIS is not scumhunting.

 

This, which is why Eldrick's vote is bothering me. 

[alannalynn]

Dude I tried to bring people together this game and y'all were having none of it, so this is what you get now. No regrats

[LilyElizabeth]

 

 

 

 

Nyn, they are not out of wtl. My current best guesses for mafia are the people I listed. No one in this game is clear.

 

If I live through this day I may make another complete list. I wonder who will even read it. Frankly, it gets annoying to make the lists when most will only look at them after I'm dead unless it is to say how bad they are. I really don't understand how you can say somwones reads are bad when you only know your own alignment and anyone that dies and flips. People said my previous reads were bad but a lot of people have echoed them Later. You might be able to say that you don't understand how I got somewhere but the read itself is either correct or not and only the mafia really know who is on their team.

So be a good fella and tell us who your Scummates are then.

Why, oh, why, can we not rep posts here?

lily, why do you think I'm mafia? Use your own words not regurgitate the case others have made. Show where your view changed If you can.

I'd like to see anyone do this. It's almost impossible to say a reason for someone to be scum after other people have said their reasons AND come up with a reason that hasn't been mentioned.

 

Ofc people regurgitate reasons. When they are sound reasons, people see it and agree. It's not perfect, obviously, but it's how the game works.

 

I'm suspicious of you for the reasons already stated. They were stated well and are convinving.

 

But, for the sake of a counter train, I'm staying on Thane. He's the other person in my PoE right now, but it's because everyone else is townier to me, not cuz I'm convinced he's scum, like I am you.

 

We need two trains, in case we are wrong about you. We need something to analyze votes against.

 

Nolder was town. So many people thought he was scum, that we don't have a train to compare his to. Several people think you're scum, but I don't want D3 to be a repeat of D2.

 

 

This is what I was referring to. But it doesn't sound as bad reading it again. Need more caffeine....

[Nynaeve]

What would you do if you were the only train and town? Thane was on Turin 1's list. Entering into logic mode:

 

I would be making a case and voting for someone I think is most likely to be scum. We're no where close to deadline. By his own admission, he's voting for a competing train and for information and bla bla bla. He's not voting Thane because he is his strongest scum read. Vote of opportunity, not actual belief. Why would I ever think that comes from a townie mindset?  Not to mention that BFG vote would have likely landed on Thane which would have tied the trains. Sure... he's doing it just for information.... or is he?

 

The only thing I'd concede is that if I was in a situation where I had a train on me and we were close to deadline and the votes on me were tied with another player? Sure, I'd vote the other player because I know my own alignment in 100% certainty. But this is hardly the case right now.

[Zander?]

 

 

. I do see glossing, taunting and misrepping coming from Z+Laine+Nyn though which isn't real helpful.

 

Excuse you?!?

 

Please show me where I'm misrepping Truin. As far as taunting goes? You gonna say dumb things? I'm gonna make fun of you. Deal with it.

 

 

Apologies, I lumped 3 people together with 3 attributes. Laine has been glossing and taunting. She even has said she wasn't reading the thread that much earlier in the day. Z has been misrepping in my opinion and taunting. You've just been taunting.

 

I can't conceive how you think it's OKAY to have everyone short of BFG in his WTL. He literally moved to Thane for NO REASON but to promote a competing train to his OWN TRAIN.

 

I mean.... seriously. WTF BG?

 

What would you do if you were the only train and town? Thane was on Turin 1's list. Entering into logic mode:

 

Scenario 1: Town!Turin - His reads are essentially unchanged from Turin 1.0, no reason to change. After the NK, Thane is a lower priority than others he finds more scummy. He gives an updated reads list based on interaction with Nolder and Turin 1. His train builds unreasonably fast without a lot of reason given. To make the most of it, Turin places vote on Thane to gain info from competing trains.

 

Scenario 2: Mafia!Turin - Sooh made life more difficult than needed, so Turin needs to double down on some of Turin 1's opinions to keep the same status quo of people trusting him. He strategically re-works the list, including removing Thane from that list. Later on his train builds super fast and Turin needs to do something so what's a dying mafia to do? Well, with all votes scattered except his own, the best he can do is try and throw out some WIFOM. Possibly bus a teammate. Turin dies pushing the lynch of Thane. 

 

In both scenario's I see Thane as mafia still. Again, Occam's Razor makes me thing the first scenario is more likely.

 

 

 

Show me where i misrepped someone immediately.  THis is the 2nd time you tried saying that and the first time you admitted you were wrong.  I want a quote showing the misrep.

[Turin Turambar]

Turin, why are you town?

my role pm says so. Simple as that.

 

I have tried to.be transparent with.my thoughts even.if they were unpopular. I noted things I.noticed about everyone. I've tried to answer questions.people had for me again even if the answers made me look bad. I stated from the start of day that I'm not afraid to.be lynched but I would prefer to lynch a wolf. If it must be me then I want to give town the mist information I can to help pull this out. I believe in.most likely scenario tomorrow would them be lylo(8 alive. Most likely 5/3 town). You gotta get it right tomorrow. I'm trying to help but it is difficult when all I am getting back is your mafia shut up. You are scummy. You are bad. You are crap. WIM sapping.

[bgrishinko]

 

What would you do if you were the only train and town? Thane was on Turin 1's list. Entering into logic mode:

 

I would be making a case and voting for someone I think is most likely to be scum. We're no where close to deadline. By his own admission, he's voting for a competing train and for information and bla bla bla. He's not voting Thane because he is his strongest scum read. Vote of opportunity, not actual belief. Why would I ever think that comes from a townie mindset?  Not to mention that BFG vote would have likely landed on Thane which would have tied the trains. Sure... he's doing it just for information.... or is he?

 

The only thing I'd concede is that if I was in a situation where I had a train on me and we were close to deadline and the votes on me were tied with another player? Sure, I'd vote the other player because I know my own alignment in 100% certainty. But this is hardly the case right now.

 

 

Thank you. This is probably the best reasoning for all Turin voting I've seen. I'd argue that a 2nd train is nearly useless close to deadline though.

[LilyElizabeth]

 

 

 

 

 

Pral, I'm more confident about Zander being town than pretty much anyone else this game. Pretty much everyone else is earning my suspicion right now.

If Turin ends up as town and you don't think has been scummy in the zander/nolder or zander/sooh/turin arguments, I have nothing to say. We might as well give up.

Youre either scum or gonna feel pretty silly when you see my flip.

Same to you Z.

 

Thane was not on My "most likely mafia" list. He has still been on my wtl list. Like a replied to Eldrick, I am basically willing to lynch anyone other than BFG over myself at this time. The order of lynch preference is fluid. At times it has been Alanna, you, Nyn, Thane, Lily, Eldrick. I think I have given reasons for each of them.

 

People have mentioned my change in tone in this incarnation. Basically the change is that I came back into the game not only with several votes but as the presumptive "inevitable" lynch. I felt I was going to be forced to claim. I was gonna have to make it clear I was town. I made declarative statements and fought back. I get a bit more aggressive in that mode especially as my initial attempts were met with not any bit of let's see what the new person brings but just vote vote vote in what I felt was an attempt to keep.me as the inevitable lynch. Refusal to consider any other options when I.know I am town frustrated the heck out of me. Not because I was not being town read but because I wasn't being given a chance. I even offered to be one of the two trains of the day but that didn't happen. I'm trying to get my town whatever information my death can bring.

 

 

 

You can say w/e you want but Thane wasnt on the list period.  You can say, oh but thats what I was thinking or that i implied it, but fact of the matter is HE WASNT ON THE LIST....PERIOD.

 

 

Huh... I could of sworn I remember Thane being on Turin's list. I thought he even replied to you about this before? Time to search.

 

 

Covering for your teammate? Really?

[alannalynn]

Thanks turin.

 

Somebody look at Turin1's interactions/read of Sooh?

[bgrishinko]

@Zander, I felt you misrepped me on day 1. I was willing to chalk it up to miscommunication, but it may have been intentional still.  Most recently you and Pral were just arguing about you misrepping him as well. 

[Nynaeve]

In his first incarnation he had town/null/scum reads. That was fine. Hell, I was town reading him myself.

 

On D2 you're supposed to be able to improve on those reads and be able to take a firmer stance. Instead he's at a place where he regressed to suspecting everyone. It's especially hard to swallow for me because the way I operate is via POE. Some people are impossible to catch via content alone, so by clearing people you can corner scum. So him naming everyone scummy means he can get away with voting anyone without any implications because... he suspects everyone. He doesn't have to explain why he was not suspicious of X before but now suddenly he is because.... he suspects everyone.

 

I don't like that he won't commit to townie reads. It doesn't work that way. At this point? It feels like he'd pretty much join any lynch and I don't like that AT ALL.

 

How are you even supposed to analyze his voting patterns? He is allowed to vote every player because everyone is scummy. Well. Awesome. I'm sure we'll find scum this way. Lets just all suspect everyone and think everyone is scum and chase our own tails for days to come. OR, we could take a stance, for better or worse, and actively seek out scum.

[LilyElizabeth]

I actually don't really wanna lynch Eldrick or lily or nyn right now. I COULD, but I don't feel that's the best course of action. Also pral, kinda null but not scummy. BG and BFG are both iffy. The others can be burned with fire.

 

Why do you have Eldrick on this list?

[Turin Turambar]

 

What would you do if you were the only train and town? Thane was on Turin 1's list. Entering into logic mode:

I would be making a case and voting for someone I think is most likely to be scum. We're no where close to deadline. By his own admission, he's voting for a competing train and for information and bla bla bla. He's not voting Thane because he is his strongest scum read. Vote of opportunity, not actual belief. Why would I ever think that comes from a townie mindset? Not to mention that BFG vote would have likely landed on Thane which would have tied the trains. Sure... he's doing it just for information.... or is he?

 

The only thing I'd concede is that if I was in a situation where I had a train on me and we were close to deadline and the votes on me were tied with another player? Sure, I'd vote the other player because I know my own alignment in 100% certainty. But this is hardly the case right now.

come on. You know that if there is only one main train and it is town no other train is gonna build late in the day. Especially if the most vocal people are calling it the inevitable.lynch for the day. Look at D1 for the proof. People weren't looking to make the day better they were fine letting the loud push that train to station without opposition.

[alannalynn]

 

I actually don't really wanna lynch Eldrick or lily or nyn right now. I COULD, but I don't feel that's the best course of action. Also pral, kinda null but not scummy. BG and BFG are both iffy. The others can be burned with fire.

Why do you have Eldrick on this list?

this is a followup to saying zander is my only sure town. The rest of you could be scum easily. But I'm not convinced those at the top line I listed are. Eldrick, mainly benefit of the doubt and improved tone.

[Turin Turambar]

In his first incarnation he had town/null/scum reads. That was fine. Hell, I was town reading him myself.

 

On D2 you're supposed to be able to improve on those reads and be able to take a firmer stance. Instead he's at a place where he regressed to suspecting everyone. It's especially hard to swallow for me because the way I operate is via POE. Some people are impossible to catch via content alone, so by clearing people you can corner scum. So him naming everyone scummy means he can get away with voting anyone without any implications because... he suspects everyone. He doesn't have to explain why he was not suspicious of X before but now suddenly he is because.... he suspects everyone.

 

I don't like that he won't commit to townie reads. It doesn't work that way. At this point? It feels like he'd pretty much join any lynch and I don't like that AT ALL.

 

How are you even supposed to analyze his voting patterns? He is allowed to vote every player because everyone is scummy. Well. Awesome. I'm sure we'll find scum this way. Lets just all suspect everyone and think everyone is scum and chase our own tails for days to come. OR, we could take a stance, for better or worse, and actively seek out scum.

I don't really do PoE. Not until I am more confident which takes either mafia flips or night action results. So I look for things that don't feel right to Me or that I feel would be.more likely to be motivated by mafia POV.

 

Like I have said all day, ly.ch.me if you.must but make it worthwhile and don't sit there going "if you're town I'm blaming you for your lynch". I'm doing.my vest in a bad situation.

[alannalynn]

BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME BLAME.

 

Jfc

 

Guyssss... guys???

 

Just bc people are loud and doing things, doesn't mean other people don't have brains and can't decide for themselves.

[Nynaeve]

Turin. You can't find scum without a town core. Ever. You can't just assume to stance of suspecting everyone. #realtalk How do you expect to find scum this way? 

[alannalynn]

Turin. You can't find scum without a town core. Ever. You can't just assume to stance of suspecting everyone. #realtalk How do you expect to find scum this way?

ffs THIS!

[Zander?]

@Zander, I felt you misrepped me on day 1. I was willing to chalk it up to miscommunication, but it may have been intentional still.  Most recently you and Pral were just arguing about you misrepping him as well. 

 

 

Show me where i misrepped him with a quote.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

I actually don't really wanna lynch Eldrick or lily or nyn right now. I COULD, but I don't feel that's the best course of action. Also pral, kinda null but not scummy. BG and BFG are both iffy. The others can be burned with fire.

Why do you have Eldrick on this list?

this is a followup to saying zander is my only sure town. The rest of you could be scum easily. But I'm not convinced those at the top line I listed are. Eldrick, mainly benefit of the doubt and improved tone.

How are you sure Z is town? So if everyone else can be mafia for you why can't they be for me as well?