[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Shad_]

and irt to #2866 since he doesn't seem to be around to answer, town!Zander's called early joke/intro posts awkward without further explanation before.  He did it with Snow and I think Lenlo in NBC, and I'm sure he's done it elsewhere because pretty much everyone does this.  It's how half the games you'll ever play get started--a bit of chit-chat and then someone calls a post awkward or nervous or out of character and it's game on.  You ask why it's awkward--you don't immediately say the accusation is suspicious!  I really struggle to believe that Zander found Cass scummy for calling two of his posts awkward.  And his excuse for backing off was because players of her personality type can get paranoid?  Are you kidding me?  At best it's a massively omgus reaction.  It's probably a scummy push.

[Kaylee]

 

 

Pizza please help me out cause going back and quoting stuff is a pain. Why did you back off of Kay again? Was it only because the general Town consensus was Town reading her?

In a world where Kaylee was guilty, the case I plopped down on her was devastating. Some people disagreed with it, but the in-thread evidence was damning and the two cited example games of hers which were villager just added to the case, and her own words in the thread were really self-incriminating.

 

So if she's a wolf, it's time to bus, or pretend you didn't see the case.

 

Defending her, or actively opposing her lynch, or pushing other people hard, it's difficult for the wolves to ignore such a case made on one of their own.

 

If a bunch of villagers jump on that lynch and the wolves don't do so, then they are out in the cold. When it's clear that Kaylee is not going to be the deep wolf, the decision has to be made to defend, bus, or ignore.

 

IMO, if she were guilty, at the very, very least, the wolves would have said the case was compelling.

 

But some people who were not in my blue or green were dismissing it. Csarmi in particular without ever considering it. (a) before I made the case, (b) while giving me links, and © afterward. He just justified it as "that's not how I read people."

 

That's ridiculously incriminating for Csarmi if Kaylee were guilty.

 

I made the decision at that point that as well researched and effort-put-into that case was, it was likely to be incorrect.

 

I also made the decision that if it were correct, the case itself would be enough to destroy her late-game.

 

I pushed her up in my process of elimination based on the reaction to the case, not because Kaylee exonerated herself personally.

 

She was NOT consensus town, in fact, some folks were considering the case.

 

But enough people were backing off that, it's kind of like someone trying to sneak away from the scene of a bombing that was about to happen. You kind of get the feeling that something bad is about to happen and they don't want to be anywhere near it, and they knew in advance that it was a good idea to be nowhere near the scene of the disaster.

 

That's the principle. It's actually basic human behavior, very simple to understand, but I doubt very many players use this kind of read to guide their voting.

 

I even said at one point, I wanted to lynch one of the people who said Kaylee was innocent. That was the first thought I had after I read the amalgam of responses to my case on her.

 

Of those people, Csarmi seemed the worst by far, because of his specific behavior.

 

And I made that decision rather rapidly and began pushing it then.

 

That's how it all went down.

Very logical actually. I did try to clear myself but was having trouble. The points were good. I figure I'll just have to prove myself from now on.

[Songstress]

The decision had been made, for better or worse, although long ages of tradition had been broken in the making.  For the first time, the dragons would interfere in the world of the short-lived races without a unanimous agreement from all five Aspects.  

 

Ysera found this worrisome, but more so was the fact that Nozdormu had not only not been in agreement with the decision, he had not been at the council.  Even more troubling was the fact that his bronze dragonflight had been completely unable to contact the Aspect of Time to secure his attendance.  There was trouble indeed, and the remaining four Dragon Aspects determined after long discussion that their intervention was necessary.  This Burning Legion was too great a threat to each of their realms to sit back and hope for the mortals to be victorious.

 

Ysera watched the battle from the Emerald Dream, her eyes as always closed to the waking world.  Alexstrasza, the Aspect of Life, had taken so much of the burden upon herself and her powerful dragonflight.  The red leviathan was passionate and fierce in her protectiveness for all living things, and she did not hold herself back from taking the field in this battle.

 

The demons swarmed the field, seeming to multiply before Ysera's vision.  Dark things were afoot, she thought, and dark things had taken to the skies.

 

Suddenly, Ysera roared in anguish -- and opened her eyes.

 

----------

 

A screech rang out in the forest glade as the raven plummeted to earth at the feet of Cenarius.  A moment more, and she had transformed into a familiar Night Elven shape. 

 

"Aviana," the forest lord acknowledged. "What news of the battlefield?"

 

The raven, herself a demigod, spoke gravely.  "I did not believe this possible, Cenarius.  By Elune, I wish that it were not so.  It appears the Burning Legion wields more power than any of us had anticipated.  One of the Aspects.... has fallen."

 

Cenarius started.  "An Aspect? Elune preserve us!  Which one?"

 

"Alextrasza, the Life-Binder, is no more."

 

 

Turin - Alexstrasza the Life-Binder, Town Doctor - has been killed.

 

----------

 

Varo'then would not be the one to break this news to their god - Xavius had that dubious honor.  The Highborne cleared his throat as he entered the chamber where Xavius and his sorcerers worked endlessly to enlarge and strengthen the portal that would allow Sargeras to enter Azeroth and begin his reign.

 

Sargeras had sent his two most trusted lieutenants through the portal to begin the work, and Mannoroth had already been slaughtered by the interference of the dragons.   The battle had begun in earnest, then, with hordes of demons swarming through the portal, out the gates of Zin-Azshari and into the heart of Kalimdor.  It was well underway, and Archimonde - known as Sargeras' left hand - had taken leadership of the Legion's forces at once.  The Eredar warlock was the most powerful spellcaster Varo'then had seen, and had caused devastation wherever he turned.

 

But Varo'then had not come to give Xavius a good report.  There would be a need to relay terrible news to Sargeras, and Varo'then had no intention of being in the vicinity when it was done.  If possible, he would prefer not to be in the palace at all.  

 

"Lord Xavius," the Highborne said tentatively. 

 

Azshara's chief councillor turned, light glittering on the crimson-streaked black crystals that had replaced his eyes.  "Varo'then.  There is no time for this interruption."

 

"You must take time, my lord."  Varothen cringed inwardly.  "There is urgent news for Lord Sargeras."

 

Xavius' face darkened.  "And what is that," he demanded.

 

"He must send another lieutenant.   Archimonde.... Archimonde has been destroyed."

 

 

Zander - Archimonde the Defiler, Mafia Goon - has been killed.

 

 

==========

 

IT IS NOW DAY TWO.

[Lenlo]

Dang it Zander, you died before I could kill you.

[Celeste]

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

[alannalynn]

LOL! AWESOME

[Songstress]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

 

Not voting (10): Shad, Kaylee, Pizza, Laine, Lenlo, Wish, Pral, Celeste, Nolder, Cass

 

----------

 

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day 2 deadline is Monday, January 11 @ 9 AM MST (11 AM EST)

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160111T09&p0=197&msg=End+of+Day+Two&font=cursive&csz=1

[Celeste]

3-4 mafia for 13 players? Agreed or Disagreed

[Shad_]

Dropping what I had left in notepad for yucks:

 

#483 -- reiterates that he always reads Csarmi as scum

#501 -- reads list:
Pizza (strong town, top read): Feels like they're on the same wavelength and Pizza is playing similar to NBC.  ~~Should Pizza ever be the top read this early in the game from someone who has played with him multiple times before?  I don't know, he's a player I'm more paranoid of than most.  And is this game really reminiscent of NBC?  In NBC he kicked off pushing a bunch of scum cases.  In this game his focus had all been on finding towns.
Kaylee (town lean, 3rd highest read): likes her but reservations because he doesn't know her town meta, still feels good about reading her town
Laine (town lean, 4th highest read): "This is mostly a Gut/Meta read but" feels Laine is town because she feels relaxed/confident/not forced, likes that she's not readily trusting him.  ~~this is a bit trivial, but the slight downplay as mostly gut/meta is odd when he's saying that's how reads people best.  I don't think the downplay was intentional, but I think it might speak to his comments on Cass being fabricated.
Cass (town lean, 5th highest read)
 

[Lenlo]

3-4 mafia for 13 players? Agreed or Disagreed

General rule is 25% of the players are mafia I think. So probably 3.

[Lenlo]

 

3-4 mafia for 13 players? Agreed or Disagreed

General rule is 25% of the players are mafia I think. So probably 3.

 

Maybe a third party as well, we dunno.

[Songstress]

MOD NOTE:

 

Setting deadline for Monday morning because 48 hours would be Saturday night, and 1) weekend... and 2) I am trying to do morning MST deadlines for my comod's sanity.

 

Feel free to hammer early if this deadline is too long for your taste.

[Shad_]

Also bye Zander, consider us square for you outing me D1 in WE.    

[Lenlo]

MOD NOTE:

 

Setting deadline for Monday morning because 48 hours would be Saturday night, and 1) weekend... and 2) I am trying to do morning MST deadlines for my comod's sanity.

 

Feel free to hammer early if this deadline is too long for your taste.

It is and I will.

[Celeste]

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

[Shad_]

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

 

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

 

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

[Lenlo]

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

 

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

 

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

Wouldnt put it past him, but yeah we shouldnt tinfoil that just yet. 2 scum dead in 3 phases is pretty good.

[Shad_]

100+ page D1s are a pain in the ass, but why do I love them?

 

Two scum down in one day.  <3

[Shad_]

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

 

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

 

Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

 

blue was @ Laine btw

[Kaylee]

Posts #224 230 233 Of Lenlo's, these long WoT type posts dont seem like something I remember Len posting like before. Am I incorrect?

Pretty sure he's done it as town.

[alannalynn]

Zero chance I was scum with Zander. Zero chance Pizza is ever scum.

 

I'm following Pizza today and we're gonna work this out.

 

give me another hour to dig in again

[Shad_]

Oh Zander, that whole AtE stunt I pulled irt sussing people for explaining their absences was a reaction test.  (I was pretty null on the results tbh.)  I mean, it was rooted in a belief that it really isn't a good tell, but the rage in my fingers was a lie.  No hard feelings bro. 

[Shad_]

Who helped build the case on Zander while Salami was getting strung up?  Who downplayed it?

[Kaylee]

#51 -- asks me to follow up on my early post by explaining my thoughts on Lenlo's and his own meta.

 

#53 -- Has no meta on Cass, asks her what her scum tells are.

 

#57 -- Asks Turin if he has any meta on Cass, says he's a meta-reliant player and needs info on her.

 

#58 -- Wants Turin to provide meta on himself, likes it when players describe themselves.

 

#164 -- Thinks Cass is suspect but has to weigh that against her being ENFP, doesn't like that she finds his meta talk awkward--"everyone who has played with me will tell you IM EXACTLY a Meta reliant player???!!!!"

 

#168 -- more talk on personality types, says Cass is ENFP

 

#174 -- won't read Pizza's (out-of-game) meta explanation until post-game because he's paranoid

 

#178 -- amused by my explanation of meta

 

#275 -- Thinks Cass is showing signs of ENFP paranoia and gut pings but isn't sure if she's faking it.

 

#283 -- Doesn't like that Cass expects Zander to read her on his own when he's a meta-reliant player and has no previous experience with her, says this "really really pings" him.

 

#285 -- Can't read Csarmi, always finds him scummy.

 

#300 -- Uneasy about Kaylee because she was deep wolf in Frozen.

 

#304 -- Doesn't know what to make of Wish because he has no meta on her, defers to Pizza.

 

#320 -- Thinks Cass's treatment of him is scummy, but acknowledges that it might be a consequence of her having never played with Zander before and being ENFP

 

#340 -- says he has a good handle on Laine's meta

 

#373 -- reiterates that Kaylee was deep wolf in Frozen

 

#378 -- has no meta on Cass and is a "meta/gut read player", needs to figure out whether her suspicion of Zander is a consequence of ENFP paranoia or if she's a wolf. ~~kind of hate that Cass's suspicions are being spun as "paranoia".

 

#439 -- Isn't interested in looking at old games to better understand players.

 

#446 -- Has no meta on Celeste, Wish, or Cass, so isn't willing to humor Celeste's meta explanations for reads. ~~He was explicitly asking for this sort of stuff earlier.

 

I'll keep going, but what I see so far is pretty massive deferment to "I haven't played with/can't read any of these players, you're all going to have to help me by giving me meta" followed by "don't use meta as an excuse, because I haven't played with you before". Zero interest in meta on the people he chooses to push, yet asks a lot of people for meta and uses it as an excuse to not have firm reads.

 

Town Zander just hunts wolves. Lynch this scum.

 

Stopping here for the night. I did skim over to see who died.

 

Looking at this ISO Zander mentioned Cass and Wish a lot. This could be because of distancing or an attempt to bring down at least one townie.

 

I need to look over both of them but his whole emo over Cass early game ands then seeming not to understand/read her really stands out. I haven't decided if that makes her his teammate or his buddy attempt. (The latter being more of him not having to give a read of her).

[Nolder]

 

 

Turin - Alexstrasza the Life-Binder, Town Doctor - has been killed.

 

 

 

Zander - Archimonde the Defiler, Mafia Goon - has been killed.

 

 

Nice!

 

That cuts my work in half.

 

Note taking resumes now.