Star Wars the Force Awakens (Beware of Spoilers)

[Niniel]

I posted this in another thread.

 

I love it! Yes, there are some things that I think they could have done differently but overall it´s a great movie. I really got that old Star Wars feeling. 

 

I think it was a good mix of old and new. The new actors/actresses were great. I really liked Rey and Kylo Ren/Ben. I think they did something new with Kylo Ren, he was not just an ordinary bad guy. He was young, hot tempered and insecure. It will be interesting to learn why he went over to the Dark Side and why he doesn´t seem to know that his grandfather went back to the Light Side before he died. 

 

The movie left a lot of questions unanswered and I hope they get answered in the next movie. I thought Rey was Luke´s daughter but I see that many think she is Han´s and Leia´s daughter. We´ll see. 

 

I could never think that they would kill Han Solo but when he went out on that bridge I knew what would happen. Great scene for the story but just awful. Han is dead. :( 

 

BB8 was a great addition. 

 

I was a little worried that they would end the movie when the flew away from the rebells but luckily we got to see Luke in the end. OMG - why does it have to be such a long wait for the next movie?!

 

As soon as I get it on DVD I want to check out Rey´s flashback more closely. It went by a little too quick. I´ve seen people suggest that she has been trained by Luke earlier (and that´s why it was so easy for her to use the Force) but that Luke erased her memory. Maybe to protect her when he failed with Ben. I like this theory, we´ll see if it´s true. 

[Nolder]

IIRC Harrison Ford has always wanted to kill off Han Solo and at one point said he'd never reprise the character again unless they killed him off.

[Krakalakachkn]

Yeah he always thought Han should die.

[Krakalakachkn]

To jump into the foam pit of opinions, I liked how they played Kylo Ren as a nice contrast to Darth Vader.

 

 

I also agree that antagonist does not necessarily mean evil/bad.  I always enjoyed the storyline of Jacen in the NJO series when he delves the 'barrier' between light and dark sides of the force.  There was an article written that did a great job of describing how Lucas came really close to making Episodes I-III fantastic and even better than the originals - mainly by focusing on the darker side of the Jedi order and how oligarchic, militaristic, and potentially unethical it actually was - where Anakin questioned, wrestled, was seduced, and rebelled because he believed that the Jedi were fundamentally flawed at a basic philosophical level - which is why only young children are taken to be trained (because they can be easily indoctrinated).  Anakin's journey to the dark side wasn't necessarily one of "turning bad" but simply a different way of looking at the Force - ultimately he was lost to evil because of how the Jedi handled him/reacted to him and because his anger and confusion turned to rage when his world fell apart.  Kylo Ren, I hope, will have layers of nuance that we continue to see stripped away as he struggles to find his place.

 

I'm also really looking forward to seeing the Knights of Ren fleshed out - it's interesting none of them carry a lightsaber in Rey's flashback.

[Lanthirrhos]

 

I absolutely disagree. A hero is only as good as their villain.

 

Kylo is not a villain. Rae is not a hero. They are antagonist and protagonist... not necessarily respectively.

 

100% agree about the good guy only being as good as their villain is bad.  a horrible villain can ruin a great good guy.

 

 

@ Lanth - main antagonist = bad guy 99.9% of the time.  the antagonist's job is LITERALLY to antagonize the good guy.  he may not be the main bad guy, and he maybe a pawn in the bigger picture, but you're arguing semantics and splitting hairs by trying to make a separation there

 

99.9% of statistics are made up on the spot. Plus, director interviews, actor interviews, and just watching a movie show that he isn't a villain. Words have meanings. I use words. I intend to use their meanings, so I said words which I meant. YOU are arguing "semantics" by implying that there isn't a distinction to be made.

 

 

 

Who says that the Star Destroyer crashed? Why would it have exploded? If anything, the force of a crash would have caused the ship to disintegrate and tear itself apart... not explode. Most things in "reality" do not typically explode when they crash. But if we're going to think way too hard about this, lets do it properly and not make assumptions. 1) Star Destroyer Largely Intact (not crumpled, not exploded) 2) Star Destroyer is not in an impact crater. 3) Star destroyer is placed on a ridge of sand (implying a largely intact structure under the sand for it to build up against) 4) We don't need to go farther. Conclusion: No crash. Emergency landing during battle. Mystery solved... again, I'm not sure why we had to over analyze that.

 
you're arguing semantics in this paragraph.  what you're doing here is akin to me saying the sky is Blue and you saying, no the sky is powder blue.
 
 
the main point is that the damn thing was destroyed in the same exact manner (or near enough) as New Hope.  they could have had the good guys win a different way, instead it was lazy and done before. 
 
if you go to the work of creating a new big bad planet destroyer, that destroys stuff in a new, yet very cool way (... i mean sucking up the sun to convert it into an ultra death ray that vaporizes multiple planets at once 0.0  that shit was epic XD )  only to have it have the same defense weakness as the smaller Death Star and for it to be on the surface is just ... weak and unoriginal.
 
and it was a copy of New Hope that they didn't have to do.

 

Oh, one last thing. I don't think the familial relationship between the characters is a "twist" of the movie. The trilogy was ALWAYS going to focus on the Skywalker family, and nothing changed when Disney and JJ took over. You aren't supposed to not know. You aren't supposed to be surprised. That's what the main story of Star Wars is. The Skywalkers. It's not a twist. It's the cornerstone of the series. It is a given.

again, its not that it wasn't expected, or even a shocker.  neither was Han dieing, as soon as they went back into the planet and Han went where he did i was like "oh hes gonna die just like Obi Wan did .... llllllllllaaaaaaammmmmmeeeeeee"

 

i also enjoyed all the nods to the original, i always do (the reboot for Clash of the Titans made me smile serveral times because of this).  the Bar scene, the Chess Board, the Jedi Mind trick while she was captured ...  and the numerous other ones that seemed to happen like every 5 minutes were all well and good.

 

BUT ...  if it just stayed at nods and not stolen plot points twisted slightly so people wouldn't feel entirely jipped out of money, i'd be fine.   thats not the case though. 

 

 

Han being there was pointless plot wise.  he was the "token death" because they felt they needed to have an "obi wan" motive to give the chick motivation to accept her fate  (which is what Obi Wan's death did for Luke New Hope).   its a stolen plot point that they used because they were too lazy to think of another way to force their main protagonist to accept her fate to save the universe.

 

every single main plot point this movie had was stolen and slightly altered from New Hope; which brings the question as to why even do the damn thing in the first place.

 

I'm confused as to what my first quotation has to do with your reply in the slightest. Star Destroyer Doesn't Equal Starkiller Base. Nor would it be semantics to argue physics within the context in which I wrote it.  I'm not particularly certain what my second quotation has to do with its reply either... Han's death not being particularly pertinent to the movies being about the Skywalker family. As for the borrowed plot points/ideas... I think you'll find that I agreed with your sentiment in my initial post. The best parts of this movie were the new parts. I just happen to understand why they played this particular movie as they have.

 

I'll second Leelou on Han's plot significance... although I wouldn't have been upset in his main purpose was to fulfill the "My-Mentor-Dies" Trope just like Obi-Wan. They've been doing that since ancient mythology. If it isn't broke...

 

 

 

If anything my biggest complaint with the whole thing is why the hell they even need star destroyers when apparently an X-wing is capable of basically taking down an entire ship. >_<

But that's just my beef with small-fighters in Sci-Fi/Fantasy in general....

 

Purely speculative: Is real life much different? Why do we need Aircraft Carriers (or battleships) when fighters can destroy pretty much everything? I mean, fighters can carry bullets, missiles, bombs, and even nukes. I mean, I don't see much of a difference there to be honest. Fighters still need supplies, fuel, a base of operations (ie mission control/command post), transportation, ground support troops, artillery/bombardment, sensor/communications/overall battle awareness... I imagine capital ship roles would be analogous to all of those. 

 

Within the Fiction of Star Wars, Capital Ships are also required to help punch through powerful shields (usually of other capital ships). While Fighters can carry weaponry capable of damaging shields, they carry small payloads and are only effective against larger ships when concentrating on a single spot with multiple attack runs, or mass torpedoing shields/armour all at once. As opposed to a capital ship, which can carry larger payloads of more powerful weaponry and launch simultaneously from multiple positions on the ship with greater accuracy. Or so the fiction holds.

 

 

To jump into the foam pit of opinions, I liked how they played Kylo Ren as a nice contrast to Darth Vader.

 

 

I also agree that antagonist does not necessarily mean evil/bad.  I always enjoyed the storyline of Jacen in the NJO series when he delves the 'barrier' between light and dark sides of the force.  There was an article written that did a great job of describing how Lucas came really close to making Episodes I-III fantastic and even better than the originals - mainly by focusing on the darker side of the Jedi order and how oligarchic, militaristic, and potentially unethical it actually was - where Anakin questioned, wrestled, was seduced, and rebelled because he believed that the Jedi were fundamentally flawed at a basic philosophical level - which is why only young children are taken to be trained (because they can be easily indoctrinated).  Anakin's journey to the dark side wasn't necessarily one of "turning bad" but simply a different way of looking at the Force - ultimately he was lost to evil because of how the Jedi handled him/reacted to him and because his anger and confusion turned to rage when his world fell apart.  Kylo Ren, I hope, will have layers of nuance that we continue to see stripped away as he struggles to find his place.

 

I'm also really looking forward to seeing the Knights of Ren fleshed out - it's interesting none of them carry a lightsaber in Rey's flashback.

 

^This. I'm still waiting for that story too. I've always thought that the Jedi Order was more than a bit evil. I'd love to have a story about a group of people wrestling with that, some from within the order, some sith, and some who are outside of both orders. I'd like to have a "good guy" who breaks away from the Jedi because of their "misguided" ways, and although he/she still uses the light side, is branded as a Sith/Dark Jedi due to the philosophical break with the Jedi. I'd love to have that Sith character who doesn't foam at the mouth upon seeing a Jedi and would even work with them if the Jedi weren't so hell bent on the Sith being evil...

 

I'm noticing that a lot of what I want was ever so slightly touched on in the KotOR games, but never felt fully realized in that medium. Part of that is due to Lucas. He was quoted somewhere along the way to say that the Jedi's view on the Force is the correct one... Good Light Side, Evil Dark Side. There is no way to use the Dark Side for good (in the long run). It's really quite a fanatical black and white religion that makes the whole struggle a little boring. I'm sorta hoping that the New Canon will open up a bit more and ignore Lucas completely.

[wotfan4472]

Lucas saying the Jedi belief is right is a far call from when he said the Jedi belief is wrong. His change must be due to the influence that the WOT must have had on him. After all, he went on originally to talk about a Force that was beyond Light and Dark.

[Nikonis]

Just curious, how many of you are waiting for tomorrow, or have already pre-ordered, the DVD/Blu-Ray release?

[Turin Turambar]

It is out today on DVD in the states?

[Nikonis]

Yup, though I heard last night that it is another week.or two for some.other countries.

[Niniel]

I will give the DVD to my bf for his birthday in the end of the month. :)

[Basel Gill]

We finally watched this last night after preordering the bluray disc. I've managed to keep myself totally spoiler free for four months. I was saddened and a little shocked to see Han die. Given that this movie was supposed to be about passing the torch to a new group of heroes, I sort of expected one of the original cast to die but I thought it would be Leia.

 

I got a huge kick out of the Daniel Craig cameo! I didn't catch his voice the first time around but after the movie was done I went back and listened and it was definitely him. For the record, he was the stormtrooper that Rey used the Jedi mind trick on, both his voice and being in the costume. I've also heard there's a Kevin Smith cameo but I haven't found it.

[Basel Gill]

From what I've read on the matter, he's not a clone rather he's the product of the One Order that kidnaps children and reconditions them basically from infancy. They never get to know their parents, and are only given a number. Course if he were a clone, he could be a Fett clone... But then Solo shoulda recognized him so that kills that idea.

So, you're automatically assuming that Han knew Boba's face... why? Are you forgetting that helmet that Boba wore every single time he was in the original trilogy?

[Krakalakachkn]

 

From what I've read on the matter, he's not a clone rather he's the product of the One Order that kidnaps children and reconditions them basically from infancy. They never get to know their parents, and are only given a number. Course if he were a clone, he could be a Fett clone... But then Solo shoulda recognized him so that kills that idea.

So, you're automatically assuming that Han knew Boba's face... why? Are you forgetting that helmet that Boba wore every single time he was in the original trilogy?

 

 

 

Yeah, the books are the only place I remember Han would have run into Fett helmet-less.

[Niniel]

We finally watched this last night after preordering the bluray disc. I've managed to keep myself totally spoiler free for four months. I was saddened and a little shocked to see Han die. Given that this movie was supposed to be about passing the torch to a new group of heroes, I sort of expected one of the original cast to die but I thought it would be Leia.

 

I got a huge kick out of the Daniel Craig cameo! I didn't catch his voice the first time around but after the movie was done I went back and listened and it was definitely him. For the record, he was the stormtrooper that Rey used the Jedi mind trick on, both his voice and being in the costume. I've also heard there's a Kevin Smith cameo but I haven't found it.

 

I thought it would be Chewie. 

 

 

[Krakalakachkn]

My favorite was the Judah Friedlander cameo.

[Basel Gill]

My favorite was the Judah Friedlander cameo.

Whoever that is. *heads to Google*

[Basel Gill]

... and then after the ten zillion rehashed elements from the first trilogy, Ren fighting Rey and Finn while the planet goes up in flames around them was an out of the blue ripoff from Star Trek III. I didn't go in expecting that.