Diablo the mafia game!

Zander? · December 6, 2015

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

Thank you, Seph.

[v]Bender[/v]

Can you provide a reads list with some reasoning please?

Zander? · December 6, 2015

Pral - there lies a very real possibility that I'm VT faking my cop claim and that I'm simply more certain of Bender being scum and my READ on Clov is predicated on Bender being scum. So please vote Bender so I can maintain this illusion. If Zander flips Town? Hold me as responsible as if I claimed the peek was on him.

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

If things so bad and I get mislynched please Turbo Lynch Yates immediately

dicetosser1 · December 6, 2015

Dice,

Oh right, and then, ofc, IF the latter is correct and Len is repeating the same thing again in an attempt to defend a co-scum member, then Dice saying this:

and i wont be lynching Clov this game

does not bode well.

Besie it was tongue in cheek regarding yates

and i dont understand ure last post

I said that IF Len is scum and IF he is protecting a fellow scum (Clov) then you saying that you're not going to vote Clov could POSSIBLY imply that you're scum protecting a fellow team member. Why do you not want to vote Clov?

Seer peek

spammit! i had 5 quotes and lost them!

will try to remember.

Zander vote: started cause of our Mafia game, Len and i was threatening him and besie on skype. His post where he talks about me asking aj what he would prefer....the tones striking me as wrong. My vote stays at this point. He has done nothing that screams town zander at me and has done some stuff thats more indepth then i associate with him. yet it doesnt feel like he is really game solving.

my concern with my thinking is that its very similar to stuff HE said about Lenlo last time.

First off, I know quotes can get eaten (though you use them in your following post for lesser reasons but you didn't go back from them to try an explain/justify your vote) but that's not the only problem I have with this post. Like firstly I have NEVER talked to Len on Skype he's not even a contact so I don't get that at all. And as far as the in depth part that you associate with me, you've seen me be both scum and town so how is me being more in depth alignment indicative of me as either to you? And then the bolded part....

She seemed pretty comfortable in the thread early on. As I suggested to Shad, I think newer players would feel more pressure coming into the game as mafia than town - and she's never played before.

Since then, I like where Zander's been coming from. His push on Yates seems pretty noticeably different from how he was in the Matrix game, and he seems to be exploring more things in the thread. I'm not clearing them by any stretch, but he would have made a significant development in his scum game.

Alright. I can agree with the Zander part, I am simply very wary of him. I think the slot will be resolved as the game goes on. I generally give new people a day or two to get into it and see what they can do/how they act so I at the very least am not lynching that slot today or probably tomorrow short of an outright scum view.

Of course its worth noting neither is clearing me (us) but both Clov and Len are saying that opposite of what you are Dice. So I'm assuming you must disagree but in doing so, please provide these lost quotes you have to prove your point.

Also, the same as I said about Len in Matrix.....I think you should take a moment to think that over and look back at that game Dice. I jumped all over him for his reads list and basically screamed you're a wolf at him and jumped around calling him reading me and Cory as scum as OMGUS!!! When and where have I done anything at all like that thus far in this game?

And as far as me not game solving...when you do more then I do in a game to solve then you can make that comment Dice. Cause one thing I always do in a game is try to solve as either alignment and I think my body of work especially recently should speak for itself.

I guess what I'm saying is If you had just responded with like "My guts telling me Zander's scum" It prolly wouldn't have bothered me as much cause that's how I feel like Town!Dice is town telling in part, at least to me anyways but your reasoning here is just plain wrong, unsubstantiated and differs from general opinion.

I'll be waiting for your response.but I don't like this post nor the reasoning behind it though I'll admit I may be a little bias here...

1 blue added some grammar does it make more sense now? I THINK it was len who asked about the Zander vote. I was explaing that I had given ZANDER a hard time on Skype.

2 red So? they think differently to me. congratulations. I dont have to agree with them. I also cant help it if they are wrong.

3 green you trying to p me off? firstly i work as hard at game solving as anyone. When you have my record of making correct clutch calls vig the right person lynch the right person (AJ not included) then you can try to lord it over me. Fact is your gonna try and sell ure actions as solving. of course you are. but they dont feel like they really are.

4 orange this aint a gut read so why would i say it is? its a tone read. Your tone is off. ESPECIALLY these last pages with yates. Its got a hard and defensive tone. it doesnt sound or feel like town zander.

THATS what im talking about

Clovdyx · December 6, 2015

Looking just at the vote count, I'm assuming Yates is claiming the peek is on Zander. Is that correct?

Yates · December 6, 2015

No.

Zander? · December 6, 2015

FINALLY!!!!

Okay. So let me see if I can boil this wall of text down to bullet points since that's what I was really looking for. I'll go ahead and type up your case on me for you. Pleasde let me know if I miss anything or have something wrong.

1. You think I'm scummy because when I made my post about peeks I didn't include AJ's peek.

2. You think I never addressed why I left AJ's peek out.

3. Role fishing.

4. You think I responded to your points in a nonchalant manner.

5. You think Clov and BFG agree with the above and are thus justified.

6. You didn't like that I questioned Besie on what "overly defensive" was after she accused me of being over defensive.

Side bar:

You said this, "And obv no one ever as any alignment ever gets defensive at all........"

Why did you make that statement and include the Big Bang sarcasm gif?

7. You don't know why I asked you when I became a day 1 lynch for Town!Zander.

8. You don't know why I asked you about your overall impression of me as a player.

9. You think I haven't adjusted my read on you with new information.

10. You don't understand why I switched my vote to Lenlo with 8 minutes left in the day.

11. You didn't like me questioning your openly hostile approach to Dice or NotBob.

12. You think that my calling your logic dumb is the same as the insulting behavior I accused you of.

End of Day 1 stuff.

Day 2 reasons:

1. You don't believe my claim.

2. You don't understand why I would leave open the possibility of backing out of my claim.

3. You don't like that I brought up the possibility of you fake drunk posting.

4. You don't think Town!Yates would refuse to accept the possibility that any of this is coming from a Town!Zander.

Is that about it? Did I miss anything? Did I misinterpret anything? I just want to be sure. Because, as you say, Town!Yates absolutely wants to work with you if you are Town.

D1:

1. Yes among the numerous other things I brought up.

2. No and you know this is stupid because I apologized for Missing the post, didn't say I bought your reasoning.

3. Yes

4. Yes quite a few of them.

5. Not using them to justify anything, just proving my point of saying I WASN'T the only one who thought that.

6.Completely untrue and if you read that my point is the you said the "Defensiveness" was a crutch and I stated the defensiveness is a pretty common reoccurring theme in Mafia. Hence the BBT sarcasm gif.

7. ?

8. Did i say that?

9. D1 what else beside my case on you did you use against me other then trying to draw connections to Clov?

10. Nope not at first from a Town!Yates and your reasoning I wasn't buying.

11. It wasn't hostile and it wasn't anything worse then what i said to you.

12. I think it was worse imo. I responded to Dice with the same thing he said to me. And the Not Bob I don't even understand what youre getting at hence it looks bad to me.

Day 2

1. Nope I don't and pretty obv why,

2. I think not buying it is a much more accurate description.

3. Absolutely not and you should know better,

4. Yes I do.

Songstress · December 6, 2015

Sorry for my absence yesterday - after I ate lunch I developed a killer headache and was so nauseous that I couldn't look at the computer screen for more than a couple of minutes without feeling seasick. Urgh.

Regardless, I've spent a good amount of time thinking about the Bender vs. Yates thing, and here's what my conclusion is.

Do I think Yates is lying? Absolutely. This is Yates we're talking about here, and I've seen him do this enough times to where this was an actual thing:

Clov actually makes a lot of sense when he says that there is no way Yates views Bender N1 as cop, and his insistence on lynching Bender over Clov if he has a guilty view on Clov is puzzling. But you know what? I don't care.

Do I think Yates is mafia? No, I do not. First, if I am the seer, Yates was my N1 peek. More importantly, because if I were lying this might be something worth breaking seer cover over if I wasn't sure of him...

Pral - there lies a very real possibility that I'm VT faking my cop claim and that I'm simply more certain of Bender being scum and my READ on Clov is predicated on Bender being scum. So please vote Bender so I can maintain this illusion. If Zander flips Town? Hold me as responsible as if I claimed the peek was on him.

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

This is exactly the kind of thing VT Yates would do - and has done - but I don't ever see Mafia!Yates hard claiming cop on D2 in order to force a mislynch on a townie. EVER. (If you've ever done this, Yates, we'll talk about it later :dry:

)

If this is between Yates and Bender today, and I think it has to be, I will not be voting Yates.

[v]Bender[/v]

Songstress · December 6, 2015

Ugh, Pral quote broke the page >.>

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

^^ That's what it should have been

Zander? · December 6, 2015

@ Dice- Ok I missed that and I apologize but YOU know that if someone make a game solve effort comment at me I'm going to respond to it hard back. ESPECIALLY considering that other then Post Count we play an extremely similar style and game.

Also do you feel me building my defensive or a read around something that could be proven a mistake and that I've mentioned numerous times is something more likely to come from Town!Zander or Scum!Zander?

Zander? · December 6, 2015

Sorry for my absence yesterday - after I ate lunch I developed a killer headache and was so nauseous that I couldn't look at the computer screen for more than a couple of minutes without feeling seasick. Urgh.

Regardless, I've spent a good amount of time thinking about the Bender vs. Yates thing, and here's what my conclusion is.

Do I think Yates is lying? Absolutely. This is Yates we're talking about here, and I've seen him do this enough times to where this was an actual thing:

Clov actually makes a lot of sense when he says that there is no way Yates views Bender N1 as cop, and his insistence on lynching Bender over Clov if he has a guilty view on Clov is puzzling. But you know what? I don't care.

Do I think Yates is mafia? No, I do not. First, if I am the seer, Yates was my N1 peek. More importantly, because if I were lying this might be something worth breaking seer cover over if I wasn't sure of him...

Pral - there lies a very real possibility that I'm VT faking my cop claim and that I'm simply more certain of Bender being scum and my READ on Clov is predicated on Bender being scum. So please vote Bender so I can maintain this illusion. If Zander flips Town? Hold me as responsible as if I claimed the peek was on him.

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

This is exactly the kind of thing VT Yates would do - and has done - but I don't ever see Mafia!Yates hard claiming cop on D2 in order to force a mislynch on a townie. EVER. (If you've ever done this, Yates, we'll talk about it later :dry:

)

If this is between Yates and Bender today, and I think it has to be, I will not be voting Yates.

[v]Bender[/v]

lololololol.

Yates, NotBob Tress scum team? When I flip town please LOOK AT THIS!!!

Zander? · December 6, 2015

Yates I have to straight up hand it to you. I really didn't think I could be mislynched anymore.

Shad_ · December 6, 2015

Bender voting himself itt. :rolleyes:

Songstress · December 6, 2015

Broken quote tags, lol

Clovdyx · December 6, 2015

Tress, are you scum? Be honest.

Clovdyx · December 6, 2015

Tress, are you scum? Be honest.

Taborline · December 6, 2015

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

Thank you, Seph.

[v]Bender[/v]

Can you provide a reads list with some reasoning please?

I've already given you my reasoning on you. Whatever Yates is, it feels like he's invested in SOMETHING, whether it's mafia or otherwise, and so I'd assess him second. Clov/Shad I don't know. More than one person is actively driving the wolfmobile with you at the moment, who is it. Bender/Shad/Tress? Bender/Yates/NotBob?

My towns are Dice, BFG, probably Thane. The others I don't know.

Clovdyx · December 6, 2015

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

Thank you, Seph.

[v]Bender[/v]

Can you provide a reads list with some reasoning please?

I've already given you my reasoning on you. Whatever Yates is, it feels like he's invested in SOMETHING, whether it's mafia or otherwise, and so I'd assess him second. Clov/Shad I don't know. More than one person is actively driving the wolfmobile with you at the moment, who is it. Bender/Shad/Tress? Bender/Yates/NotBob?

My towns are Dice, BFG, probably Thane. The others I don't know.

What the <my vocabulary makes Verb cry at night> is this? You're listening to him on a lynch for a peek he literally never makes, despite the fact he's second on your scum list, and you're somehow considering that they could be teammates?

Yates · December 6, 2015

if you are actually VT and this is a gambit, I would be very disappointed. I would understand if you did this as scum but as VT?

This is exactly the kind of thing VT Yates would do - and has done - but I don't ever see Mafia!Yates hard claiming cop on D2 in order to force a mislynch on a townie. EVER.

2015 Mafia Champions Game

In a game with the best players from random mafia sites, VT Yates fakes a red peek on Pizza [who he did not know at the time] on Day 2. That gambit ended up clearing a ton of people, made Pizza and I lifelong friends, and ultimately lead to me voting the last scum in F3.

Clov is aware of this game.

Obviously this isn't the only time I've done it - as evidenced by the Tress flow chart making an appearance in that game - but it's probably my most high profile VT gambit. Also, that was a vanilla game [1 cop - no other pr's] so the strategy mirrors this game EXACTLY.

Taborline · December 6, 2015

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

Thank you, Seph.

[v]Bender[/v]

Can you provide a reads list with some reasoning please?

I've already given you my reasoning on you. Whatever Yates is, it feels like he's invested in SOMETHING, whether it's mafia or otherwise, and so I'd assess him second. Clov/Shad I don't know. More than one person is actively driving the wolfmobile with you at the moment, who is it. Bender/Shad/Tress? Bender/Yates/NotBob?

My towns are Dice, BFG, probably Thane. The others I don't know.

What the <my vocabulary makes Verb cry at night> is this? You're listening to him on a lynch for a peek he literally never makes, despite the fact he's second on your scum list, and you're somehow considering that they could be teammates?

My wanting to vote Bender comes from my own feelings about them - my top thought is that they're team mates, yes. Yates feels over the top in this game.

Clovdyx · December 6, 2015

Tab, I'm trying really hard to consider that you could possibly have the thoughts you've displayed this game, but every time I see a comment like that it makes me think you're scum and you have no idea how to play it. I know Zander is a very heavy busser, and Yates will do just about anything it takes to win, but I've played a lot of mafia - this would, hands down, be the most pathetic display by scummates I've ever seen.

Taborline · December 6, 2015

Tab, I'm trying really hard to consider that you could possibly have the thoughts you've displayed this game, but every time I see a comment like that it makes me think you're scum and you have no idea how to play it. I know Zander is a very heavy busser, and Yates will do just about anything it takes to win, but I've played a lot of mafia - this would, hands down, be the most pathetic display by scummates I've ever seen.

I will take your word for that, then. I have NOT played a lot of this game, and every god damned time there's some new mechanic that I don't know anything about, and it takes me a really effing long time to figure out what the hell is going on. If I were scum, I would seriously like to think my team would help me out in at least not looking as stupid as I feel.

Clovdyx · December 6, 2015

Tab, I'm trying really hard to consider that you could possibly have the thoughts you've displayed this game, but every time I see a comment like that it makes me think you're scum and you have no idea how to play it. I know Zander is a very heavy busser, and Yates will do just about anything it takes to win, but I've played a lot of mafia - this would, hands down, be the most pathetic display by scummates I've ever seen.

I will take your word for that, then. I have NOT played a lot of this game, and every god damned time there's some new mechanic that I don't know anything about, and it takes me a really effing long time to figure out what the hell is going on. If I were scum, I would seriously like to think my team would help me out in at least not looking as stupid as I feel.

I would think so too, and that's why I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Townies gets paranoid...scum can't really do that. Town is forced to think everything through on their own...scum can have people talk sense into them. So I WANT to buy the bold entirely.

But at the same time, I dunno...I don't really know you very well, and you have seemed like a kind of..hesitant? (probably not the right word) player when I've seen you before, but I just can't shake the feeling you have motivation for consistently jumping to what I think most people would think is the least likely scenario.

Zander? · December 6, 2015

9 hours and 36 mins to dl

Thank you, Seph.

[v]Bender[/v]

Can you provide a reads list with some reasoning please?

I've already given you my reasoning on you. Whatever Yates is, it feels like he's invested in SOMETHING, whether it's mafia or otherwise, and so I'd assess him second. Clov/Shad I don't know. More than one person is actively driving the wolfmobile with you at the moment, who is it. Bender/Shad/Tress? Bender/Yates/NotBob?

My towns are Dice, BFG, probably Thane. The others I don't know.

Taborline · December 6, 2015

Tab, I'm trying really hard to consider that you could possibly have the thoughts you've displayed this game, but every time I see a comment like that it makes me think you're scum and you have no idea how to play it. I know Zander is a very heavy busser, and Yates will do just about anything it takes to win, but I've played a lot of mafia - this would, hands down, be the most pathetic display by scummates I've ever seen.

I will take your word for that, then. I have NOT played a lot of this game, and every god damned time there's some new mechanic that I don't know anything about, and it takes me a really effing long time to figure out what the hell is going on. If I were scum, I would seriously like to think my team would help me out in at least not looking as stupid as I feel.

I would think so too, and that's why I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. Townies gets paranoid...scum can't really do that. Town is forced to think everything through on their own...scum can have people talk sense into them. So I WANT to buy the bold entirely.

But at the same time, I dunno...I don't really know you very well, and you have seemed like a kind of..hesitant? (probably not the right word) player when I've seen you before, but I just can't shake the feeling you have motivation for consistently jumping to what I think most people would think is the least likely scenario.

I second guess myself a lot, to the point of letting people change my mind last time around, and then I ended up voting for the wrong people. From early, I've had bad feelings about Bender, so I'm staying there, but Yates doesn't feel like he felt when he was town last time. He pushed people, sure, but it wasn't like this. This feels like he has a goal that isn't just finding wolves, it feels off. And now, again, I am feeling like I am second guessing Bender and wanting to go for Yates, but would he be doing this is he were scum, as it's so obvious?

Songstress · December 6, 2015

Tress, are you scum? Be honest.

I am not, darlin'.

Diablo the mafia game!

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