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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Age of Legends [standard] Mafia - Game Over

BFG

By BFG
in DM Mafia Games

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Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

Posted
Posted

I'm here for a bit. Will be very available late tonight if anyone wants to talk then too.

 

Has Nolder ever really played with Shad? His "experience/gut" comment threw me off.

 

Like the Nyn ISO on Nolder, you hit a lot of things that bothered me about Nolder this game.

 

Anyone have wolf meta on Nolder?

 

I want to look over Nolder's and Kivam's slot and I really will be doing that later tonight. Busy week

 

 

 

Sorry I did miss that yeah.

 

Experience tells me that fights that happen early and with conviction are usually town on town violence.

Mafia don't normally stick their necks out so early in the game for exactly this reason.

If they can get townies to fight they can just sit back and let one lynch the other.

 

Of course there's always exceptions and every game is unique but I find that it's true often enough to let it shape my opinions.

That's funny because some players LIKE to pick fights early on in a game. And I doubt you have enough meta on neither Shad nor Calder to know if they would? Mehh

 

I've only played with Shad 2 or 3 times this isn't a meta read on Shad I think it's true of all games with all players. Well, players with experience anyway.

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

 

Laine has a lot more content than I remembered  lol

:rolleyes:

 

I'm looking forward to your thoughts. Then we can lynch Nolder

 

 

Yeah, I'm on the end of page 4 now so not long to go. But pausing for coffee soon

 

 

ftr, I think your content looks cleaner compared to Nolder's so far. 

alannalynn Spam Master

alannalynn

Posted
Posted

 

Now you're just tinfoiling to make it fit your view of the situation. If they were signaling each other on thread...where are the signals? And wouldn't that be something incredibly dangerous to do regarding something so minor?

 

It seems highly unlikely to me that mafia would have some sort of plan to avoid the Shad/Calder thing. If mafia did avoid it they did so separately on their own. It wouldn't have been a planned thing.

 

Signaling as reading the situation as V/V. Crusher did it. Halli did it. If I were in a scum team and my scummates were reading the main blow out as V/V... I might decide to stay away since we can't talk during the day. It's just a thought.

 

It seems unlikely, sure. Laine also questioned me if I really thought two scummies would be doing the same thing... but as it turns out they were. There's no arguing that. 

I just remembered this after reading it in my ISO lol. I think the fact that they DIDN'T have day chat shows a lot. Without time to plan who responds and pushes which side of the interaction, it's probably safer to stay off of v/v violence like that and let it evolve, especially if all wolves are thinking independently. Not sure if it would be 3/3 though

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted
Alanna ISO

 


- Says she's have limited time.

- Zander obv town. Clov townish? Alana town. Wants to talk one on one with Calder.

- Warns Zander to be careful or all of us will think he's scum for clearing her so early. Ftr, while I realize this is in their meta, I still hate it. I'm getting war flashbacks from other players who do a similar thing, if a far worse version of this. Overall... irritating but prolly null.

- The whole thing of her FoSing AJ for being helpful townie and preaching. This is prolly one of the things that bothered me most about her initially, because I read it as a serious FoS at the time. She later says it's a joke and retracts it, giving AJ a townie lean. So overall... didn't like it.... could mean anything, pending if you interpret it as a joke or not. In a way, seems a bit too... silly... to be an actual nudge. Also AJ is hardly a player I'd pick to push on D1 as scum. But Laine might just have more cojones than me. Overall not a fan of how she came into the game, but I wanted to see more.

- Says she won't be serious serious until Thrusday, when she has more free time. Okay.

- Labels Chris' reaction as weird, when he goes in length about AJ's meta and how him being helpful isn't alignment indicative. I didn't find it odd, and said as much. But if she was legit joking, I could see why she'd be surprised at Chris' post. 

- Explains to AJ she's not really playing so that's prolly why she's sketching him out. Says she's gonna pull a Crusher and float until end game on jokes :D..... erm, okay? LOL  This... yeah. Sorry it's just weird. If she said this as his scummate, I'm gonna laugh xD

- Explains again why she found Clov's post weird. I guess I can sort of see what she means (if again... it was a joke).

- When questioned on her thoughts about Shad/Calder she says that she hasn't caught up fully yet so she will comment when she will. Fair enough.

- When Thane tells her he hopes to see more townlaine she responds with "I'm not IC so I'm not intentionally trying to be a mislynch candidate to avoid NK LOL". I guess it's more joking? I don't understand it either way.

- Thane tells her to rest so she wouldn't make a tired mistake. She lols and says she's not planning to get mislynched any time soon. Says she's not worried. Mkay.

- Chastises Nolder about his placeholder vote on Calder. Not a bad post.

- Leans on Nolder about his vote on Calder. I'm not really hating it. Says she's not ignoring my and AJ's questions and that she'll respond when she's 100% caught up. Fair enough.

- Notes that she's in the bottom of some read lists and that she needs to rectify that.

- Notes that she's a bit worried about Zander atm, because she would have expected to see more of him in the thread. It's later clarified that he's been sick.... but I like that she, of all players, took note of this.

- Thane prods her again about catching up and she says it's still Wed AM for her. 

- Catches up till p.10 and posts a WoT. Thinks Shad pinged when he comments on AJ's vote on Calder (too easy prolly, but crossed my mind). At the same time she says Calder's angle of Shad soft defending doesn't make sense. She questions if Shad would have really missed that Calder isn't a newbie in the sign up thread, but she points out some of Shad and Calder's later posts as believable. She also adds that she didn't like Shad's dodging points. I really like this interpretation of hers because she's breaking it apart and saying which part of the interaction seems legit to her and which is giving her pause. vs other players who gave more general read but haven't really shown how they got there.

- Ends up agreeing with Clov that at this point Shad is mostly null.

- Notes AJ making a townie post.

- Questions Calder if he can see a villager being nonchalant about pressure in an attempt to diffuse pressure.

- Quotes her FoS on AJ being helpful and says she takes it back. AJ looks good ITT.

- Takes back what she said to Clov about his response being weird. She says she asked him to decide for her and then called him out for explaining. lol

- Questions Shad, if he thinks that Calder being sure he's mafia and not allowing for town alternative is motivated by town or scum thinking. Not a bad question.

- Refers to Zander saying that Shad posted like 7 times in the sign up, after Calder's joke of being new. And he says he's not buying what Shad is selling. She says this is interesting and could destroy Shad's credibility. I can't hate this.

- Says that she would have liked Shad's response better if he straight up answered the accusation instead of initially brushing it off. My thoughts exactly.

- Her conclusions: Likes Zander, Clov and AJ. Wary of Calder, iffy on Shad. 

- She adds that she has a weird feeling that all that has been talked about is Shad. And that if he gets lynched and flips town, she's going to be a bit bothered that it was so easy for mafia to sit back in this exchange and let it happen. And that she wants to see more pressure applied in other areas. I'm not sure what to make of this comment. In itself, I don't like it. At the same time, she was only up to page 10, so I could see how it would come across that it was the only thing going on. I don't get why she would think scum are sitting this one out (I think she expands later)... at the same time I'm not sure if I buy this as a slip. Cause it's not something small... it's like a ginormous slip if she's scum.... so lunno. Feeling iffy about it overall, but nothing conclusive. And technically at that point of the game only about 4 of us were constantly talking, while the rest were being quiet.

- Questions Shad who he thinks is scum. Asks him if he's been pushing anyone or just defending. Not a bad line of questioining.

- Tells Shad that attacking his attackers is not pushing cause it comes off more as defensive than anything else. Repeats again that she wants to see some cases in other directions. I think she's still not caught up here... so yeah... not a bad request overall. The thread was sort of drowning with Shad/Calder commentary alone initially.

- Keeps engaging Shad. Feels like she's trying to figure him out.

- Then she engages Calder, saying they haven't communicated at all so far.

- Prods Calder about an unanswered question in her catch up.

- Shad points out stuff that bother him about her revolving her initial FoS on AJ. Her response is basically that it was mostly joke revolved and that she shouldn't sleep skim. That she feels okay about AJ. And basically that she's not caught up yet so she's missing a lot of sections in the thread. She's doubtful about being able to catch up before deadline, but says that there are some of Calder's posts she wanted to respond to. 

- notes liking Calder's response to her question. Tells Shad she thinks he was a bit ooc when he was being evasive and that it's basically the problem with trying to decide is he's coming off scummy or not. What bothered me as well about Shad, initially, was the his evasiveness. 

- AJ brings Shad's line of questioning towards Crusher. Says the questions imply that Shad knows Crusher is gonne flip town. Laine disagrees and says it's null. As Crusher's teammate... I think this would have been a perfect opening (offered by AJ), to push Shad. But Laine, instead, says it's null.

- She offers a read list (but admits she hasn't read pages 10-26). Dice (peek), Zander, Nyn, Clov........Sahd, AJ, Kiv..... Thane, Halli, Nolder, Calder, Crusher.

- She adds that she hasn't like how Shad has been on thread, but gut says town, so the conflict puts him in the middle. Says the bottom group is purely by POE and in no particular order.

- Laine explains herself to Shad, saying that she felt like the Shad/Calder deal allowed a lot of people to sit back while things sorted out. Easy place for scum to hide and town to be lazy.Kinda true. Adds that her town leans pushed Calder down her list. And then some more exchange. I do get the feeling that she's trying to figure him out.

- Clov questions Laine's placement of Calder. She explains that he's unknown for her. Overall she liked some of Calder's responses, but others feel forced and leave her wondering. She said she's not ready to lynch him, but that since she can read the others better, it pushed him down to the POE. Personally I didn't get the feeling that Calder's posts were forced. I thought they were all pretty good. His downfall was more that he was unwilling to play ball and look anywhere else, basically. But I don't hate her rationale and response to Clov overall.

- Says she's off to read pages 10-26.

- Shows up shortly after saying she read 10-18. It's good to see her following up on it. Especially because I want to see her take once she's fully caught up. Anyways, she questions Nolder about his vote on dice. Points out two posts of Shad (10 minutes between them), where in one he says he thinks Calder is town, and then in the other saying he's scum. She tells him that those posts don't line up to her. She agrees with me that the back and forth between Shad and Calder is dumb.

- Points out Kiv's explanation of his reads when I questioned him, saying it moves Kivam up cause he seems forthcoming and honest. Adds that she didn't remember anything from Hallia, dice or Thane. Says that Crusher's vote on me was awful and he knows it.

- Quotes Shad's read list and says she's not entirely bothered by it. Also adds that she won't be lynching Shad today.

- Says she needs to read over Halli's posts. She feels she hasn't put in much effort. Then mentions a handful of games where she assesses Halli's level of involvement in relation to her alignment to see if it coincides. I kinda like this post.

- When AJ offers a CFD on Halli, she says she wants to give her another day. This doesn't really bother me, in itself. Mostly cause I was struggling with reading Halli too initially. And also because I think it's very hard on D1 to determine Halli one way or the other. I gave her an initial light gut town read... but once the game progressed and we got some flips, I think it was easier to assess her properly. 

- Questions dice if he posted any reads.

- Converses with Zander, telling him she doesn't think Shad is scum.

- Asks dice for his scum reads. He says Shad and Hallia. She says she's mostly caught up... that she doesn't think Shad is mafia and that she needs to look into Halli. I'm not that bothered by her speaking for Shad, because I feel like she engaged him an awful lot to reach that conclusion. And I can sort of see how she got there (if not necessarily agree with her take).

- AJ chastises Laine over repeatedly saying that she's not caught up. She says she only said it cause she was asked. He says she's been saying it even when not prompted. It's not a bad observation from AJ's part... but I also think it's important to know how caught up Laine is in relations to her comments. So I'm not sure if it bothers me as much as it seemed to bother AJ. But I'll keep it in mind.

- This is the part where Laine starts with Crusher's train feeling too easy and that she doesn't know why. Could be her soft defending him. At the same time, I don't feel like she was actively trying to difuse the push so much as she wasn't going to vote Crusher cause it felt too easy for her. This differs from what I feel Nolder was doing, which wasn't just defending Crusher... but also pushing Kivam in the process. With her I kidna get the feeling that she could be overthinking it. 

- Then around an hour to dealdline she votes Nolder. She says she doesn't like Shad or Crusher's train. Seems like a bit of a useless vote, really. But I'm pretty sure that at that point Crusher's train was in the lead (yes, just checked 5:4). She had already said she wasn't gonna lynch Shad today. And as Crusher's scummate, she could have went for the bussing, considering he was at the lead with an hour to deadline. In the end Clov ties the trains and sort of twists her arm. She votes simultaneously with AJ 5 minutes to deadline and Crusher gets lynched. After rereading this, my thought on it is... if she wanted to bus... she could have just bussed. Her voting Nolder and then sort of being pushed to make the call makes me feel like it is less likely to be a bus. I don't feel like she was trying vote in a way that would gain her cred, if that makes sense. Avoiding both trains wasn't gonna get her town cred with Crusher's flip... so this is another instance where I think Laine had an opening she could have taken advantage of, but didn't  (the previous one is not flipping on Shad, via AJ's theory).

- When questioned by dice and AJ about her vote on Nolder, she says she thinks Shad is town... says that Crusher has been scummy but that it all just seems too easy and that he's prolly getting lynched regardless. She adds that if she wanted to stay clean she wouldn't be around EoD or would just go with majority. Which is not a bad point. Her theory that the trains sitting means townie trains is not absurd in itself. I was leaning towards it being two scum trains, myself... but the rationale isn't a bad one in general. I think her mistake was putting less weight in Crusher's content though. I think he was being massively gross.

- Nolder chastises her for not picking a side.

- Gives an updated read list before EoD where her bottom are (in order, I think): Calder, Halli, Crusher, Nolder. Which is.... yeah... a good list for EoD1 considering the flips we've had so far.  LOL

- Argues with dice that both trains being static is suspicious and that there would be more movement if it was a w/v trains. Again, could be her trying to take attention away from Crusher. But all in all... she's been repeating it because people have been questioning her vote on Nolder. I very much doubt that as Crusher's scummate she expected people to join her in a CFD on Nolder an hour before deadline (this isn't JN LOL). I lunno. 

- Next day she opens with a WTL of Thane/Nolder/Halli and votes Thane.

- Kiv asks her why she hasn't included Calder. She says she needs more time with him and that she doesn't recall him being around on EoD, where's Thane was around but was hesitant to vote. My issue with this push is that on EoD she agreed with Thane and he agreed with her that the trains had no opposition and were prolly v/v. She only picked a side cause Clov created a tie situation. So it rubs me the wrong way that she is now voting Thane for this. I mean... sure she voted Nolder and Thane didn't vote anyone... but a pointless vote on a train that wasn't going to gain traction is equivalent to no vote at all... so it seems a bit odd that she would push him for that reason. Additionally, I'm somewhat surprised that she wasn't pushing Nolder, considering how strongly she felt about him in EoD.

- Tells Zander to knock it off with Shad. That he's town.

- Explains why she voted Crusher, post flip. Says that while she believed both to be town trains, Crusher had more scum equity and she felt more sure of Shad being town. I can't hate this.

- Doesn't like Calder's response to Kivam revolving his accusation that Calder could be Crusher's scummbro.

- Questions Nolder why he has Calder so high in his list. Also explains to him my point that if both Shad and Crusher are scum... him tying the trains makes him look good. Irrelevant, though, now that we know Shad is town.

- Reiterates feeling unsure about Calder. Asks Kiv and me how Crusher distributes his scummates usually. 

- Nudges Thane again about not taking a stance on EoD1. 

- Argues that it's Calder's responsibility to prove he's town when he starts to flip out a bit about Kiv's accusation.

- Says her WTL is Calder/Nolder/Thane and that Halli looks better with the pages she's read. Iffy she Halli is out of her WTL... not sure what exactly looked better. Laine?

 

- When Laine realizes that Nolder is voting Thane with her, she unvotes, saying it's making her uncomfortable. I get the gist of the unvote and I like that she did.

- Votes for an earlier deadline. Questions how is Thane not in anyone's POE. FoSes Calder for fear mongering when he goes ape sh*t.

- She engages Clov when he says Thane not voting looks the worst, but that he's prolly town....she says that both Nolder and Thane labeled the Shad/Calder thing is v/v. That Nolder is smart enough to stay off his town read and bus a teammate, where's thane staying off completly from the trains is crap. Clov's comment is due to his peek, naturally. Her thoughts bug me because she wasn't exactly making a decision either irt the two leading trains in the form of a vote. She voted Nolder... which was her giving her thoughts but at the same time not doing something conducive to a lynch. Clov kinda "helped" her decide. So if both her and Thane felt the same way about the trains... I don't understand why she would be that dumbfounded about Thane not voting either. FTR, I have seen scum in some instances just not vote. Repeatedly. I'm not saying it can't be scummy in itself... I just think that for Thane, it's not necessarily indicative. But... I will say that the way she gets ticked off by Clov and not understanding how he's getting a town read when he admits the lack of vote looks bad... makes me feel like she's genuinely confused by the read. 

- Votes Calder.

- Says both Halli and Nolder could have been bussing Crusher. Says that Thane looks bad. That she doesn't understand why so many people are clearing him. This point I don't really hate.... cause Thane was mostly null up until AJ's flip and Clov's claim...I don't think he had enough content to make a judgement, from where I was standing. So her questioning this is fine.

- When asked by me she says her WTL is Nolder/Halli/Thane (Calder hasn't been lynched by this point, but I think most of us were acting as if he already got lynched and flipped scum lol).

- When AJ says they should leave Calder for D3 and CFD someone, he thinks AJ is talking about her and talks about her being mislynched breaking her mislynch record and that she would cry for weeks.... eh.

- Explains to Nolder how it's strange to be on the same train with someone she's scum reading. And that she needs to figure out which of them is scum.

- Talks some to Zander, telling him she's not gonna break his heart, says she is still not convinced Shad is scum. She thinks prolly Halli today... and says she thinks it's Halli/Nolder.

- Tells me that Nolder's content is prolly better than hers. Not really, fwiw lol

- Agrees that Halli should be the lynch for the day. She says it, but she doesn't vote at that point. But, she does run off to ISO Halli.

- More back and forth with Zander. pinky swear she's town, if she's lying it's over... bla bla bla. I don't get much out of this. Heh.

- Posts Halli's ISO. Says she didn't like her read on dice, being defensive, lack of reasons for her reads, iffy vote on Crusher. Don't see anything that bothers me about the ISO overall. But I still want to know what she saw earlier that made her, momentarily, feel better about Halli.

- Tells Clov she hasn't been mislynched since 2011, so he better vote Halli cause she's scum.

- Votes Halli.

- Gives seer cover when Kiv asks for it: Dice, Shad, Nyn.

- Says she wishes Clov would have viewed her. Eh.

- Says she trusts Kiv less than me due to his rep. And that she trusts Clov to be right once she gets past her Nolder tunnel. Corrects herself and says that Nolder's slot has just been nagging all her game and she wants it resolved. I share that sentiment.

 

 

The rest is stuff that happened today and I've mostly responded to in real time so I'm skipping it. Kinda lost focus anyhow.


 

 

What I like about Laine the most is that she went knee deep into the Shad/Calder flood. I can follow her thoughts, if not always agree with her. I can see her process irt Shad, going from iffy to null and finally town. She's made some weird comments initially (specifically revolving AJ). Some of them she labels as jokes. Some are a bit of head scratchers, but I wouldn't really call them inherently scummy. She makes some solid observations, imo. I know RL is a factor with her being busy... so I'm trying not to give that weight in my read.... and she mostly seemed to follow up when she said she was going to do something.

 

I'm not a fan of the way she was pushing Thane. I think that on one hand I would expect her to be suspicious of people clearing Thane for no real reason, that much I'm fine with... on the other hand, considering her stance on EoD1 and her and Thane seemingly being on the same page (ie thinking both trains were townies), I don't really understand why she was so bothered when he didn't vote. I'm wondering if she was bothered by him not voting AFTER Clov tied the trains.... or bothered because he didn't vote AT ALL. At the end of the day, they both had a similar idea in mind on why they weren't keen on the two leading train.... so I guess that's why I don't like that FoS coming from her.

 

Would have she had felt differently if he did what she did and voted someone outside of those two trains, like she did? Because I don't see the difference between that and not voting. Unlike Thane, though, Laine did end up making a choice, even though Clov had to encourage her a bit. Which is prolly a positive thing imo. Also her frustration when arguing with Clov about Thane seems sincere to me. Clov had a inno peek on Thane, which is why he couldn't explain why he was town reading Thane, really. He admitted that from his POV Thane's lack of vote looked bad... but that he was still prolly town. And that was riling her up. I get more the sense of confusion and frustration, rather than her being annoyed that she wasn't getting traction from the push.

 

 

Overall.... I see stuff I agree with... stuff I disagree with. I mostly get where she's coming from, though. Which is good.

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

Oh I forgot to say. Blue bold is most of her mentions of Shad. Black bold is most of her mentions of Thane. And Red bold is most of mentions of Halli/Crusher.

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

Though... Laine.... I have to ask specifically. At EoD1 you were practically high fiving Thane and saying he was making sense about the two trains very possibly being town because you guys felt they were static. So why did you think it was scummy that he was unwilling to choose between the two? Even after Clov tied the trains... if under his consideration both trains are towns... then a town would get lynched either way. Even if it goes to random.

 

Also, there's a question for you in my WoT. I increased the font so you'd see where (it's about a momentary change of hears you had about Halli).

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

Posted
Posted

Anyways, I don't have the energy to do a Kivam ISO today. Maybe tomorrow, we'll see.

Thank you btw. You're clearly putting a lot of work into these ISO's. 

alannalynn Spam Master

alannalynn

Posted
Posted

Though... Laine.... I have to ask specifically. At EoD1 you were practically high fiving Thane and saying he was making sense about the two trains very possibly being town because you guys felt they were static. So why did you think it was scummy that he was unwilling to choose between the two? Even after Clov tied the trains... if under his consideration both trains are towns... then a town would get lynched either way. Even if it goes to random.

 

Also, there's a question for you in my WoT. I increased the font so you'd see where (it's about a momentary change of hears you had about Halli).

it was the combination of us getting a scum flip and me being forced to choose while he sat idly by. I was agreeing with him yes but then ate my words after the flip :sad:

 

I'll respond better later when I'm not on mobile and actually in a less hectic environment lol

 

I do appreciate your detail in the ISO :)

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Official VC 4.9

 

Nolder (2): Thane, Laine

 

Kivam (1): Kivam

 

Laine (1): Nolder

 

Not voting (3): Nyn, Zander, Shad

 

bla_1441996200.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Every time I think Nyn or Kiv or whoever goes off the rails they pull it back lol.

 

Ok I think I'm going to lock in my vote now since it's really a toss up anyway. Hopefully this is right.

 

[v]Alanna[/v]

 

 

 

Official VC 4.8

 

Nolder (1): Thane

 

Kivam (1): Kivam

 

Not voting (5): Layne, Nolder, Nyn, Zander, Shad

 

bla_1441996200.png

Why am I not voting yet? lol

 

[v]Nolder[/v]

 

 

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

 

Anyways, I don't have the energy to do a Kivam ISO today. Maybe tomorrow, we'll see.

Thank you btw. You're clearly putting a lot of work into these ISO's. 

 

 

I appreciate it.

Nynaeve Spam Master

Nynaeve

Posted
Posted

it was the combination of us getting a scum flip and me being forced to choose while he sat idly by. I was agreeing with him yes but then ate my words after the flip :sad:

I'll respond better later when I'm not on mobile and actually in a less hectic environment lol

 

I do appreciate your detail in the ISO :)

 

NP. 

 

I understand that Crusher's flip showed that the theory was wrong. But I think Thane's choice of not voting could still come from a townie mindset, objectively speaking. If he was convinced that both trains were town then choosing between them served no purpose. You were staying off of those trains too, preferring to let things fall as they may, up until Clov put you in a tight spot....  (*giggity*).

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

This might have been asked pretty recently but I'm almost finished with something here and I want to know where you all stand as of right now.

 

Nolder Laine Kiv Nyn, what is your wtl order for the final three days?

Kivam Spam Master

Kivam

Posted
Posted

This might have been asked pretty recently but I'm almost finished with something here and I want to know where you all stand as of right now.

 

Nolder Laine Kiv Nyn, what is your wtl order for the final three days?

 

 

Nolder/Laine/Nyn, in order.  Honestly, Laine crept closer to Nyn today (or Nyn fell closer to Laine) but I still don't think I get to Nyn unless it's her or me.  And again, if Zander pulled off the "SHC" high variance play, I'll stand and applaud at the end of the game, but I don't think there's anything he can do between now and endgame that would make me consider putting a vote on him, since at the end of the day he'll just be voting down the POE the way a townie should at this point.

 

But I'm relatively confident it never gets to F3

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