Uses for the power

[Sabio]

So with the power I can look like someone else or even hide, but could you look like say a table or an  animal?  Would it have to be something  of similar size  if  so?  Just a random thought and sort of curious if RJ ever mentioned anything about this.

[mb]

I asked similar questions sometime back in another thread. did not really get answers.

the thread is titled "Various Issues"; and the questions were about Illusion.

 

about size, I imagine it could be any size since channelers can make themselves taller or shorter with Illusion.

[Vince Black]

Do you mean something similar to shapeshifting? Thatd be awsome.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Illusion isn't entirely opaque, you can only change so much practically. 

 

You could not make yourself look like a cat, for example. The size would not fit and you would have to hide the rest of your body with another illusion or a crude invisibility. 

 

The movement would be all off as well, if you wanted to move. That's why the Forsaken do not alter themselves radically, because it is hard to maintain an illusion the further it gets from the original form. 

 

For inanimate objects, I suppose you could look like a tree or something similar. A table wouldn't work, the proportions are off.You could project an image of a table, but not make yourself look like a table, unless you were an incredible acrobat. 

[mb]

about movement; skilled people could probably adapt human movement to that of the animal type.

 

about maintaining the weave; if Illusion could be done around physically attached people, that might be easier.

[Sabio]

@Vince, shapeshfiting but basically just using illuisons.  I know Rand had mentioned when he made Egwene invisible that he told her she had to stand still, but when you make yourself look like someone else movement and such is no issue.  MB got me thinking about attaching it to people like what Messana did to draw out Egwene during their fight.  I know if it was the dream world my guess is about anything might be possible but using just the power to form an illusion what the limitations might be in the real world.  I guess it would make sense you couldn't make yourself look like a mouse or cat.  Just curious say a 6ft person how tall or short they could go and would strength in the power have any effect on it.

 

You know stuff like if you made yourself look like a cow, would you automatically seem to be walking as a cow or if you didn't put effort into it would people see a cow walking on its hind legs?  Not sure if RJ ever talked about illusions much.

[Orderofolde]

It was explained that the mask of mirrors could be used for small changes or large, but there were limitations.  You could impersonate someone of similar size, but not smaller unless there were additional weaves involved to change a person's perception of height or thinness.  You could certainly do bigger (taller/heavier) more easily than a smaller person though it was illusion and not solid.  Lanfear had to be careful playing the pary of the fat darkfriend, though everyone remarked that she didn't move like someone that heavy.  The smaller the change the more useful, the bigger the change, the harder it was to maintain.  We see dresses peeking through the illusion with Messana, the bronze of her dress she wore as Danielle.  A weave can be attached to a person or to an object, as we saw when Rand mentioned "fastening it is place" when he hid Egwene from the Aes Sedai in the throne room scene, but he warned her not to move as it would not follow her.  Later on we see that voices can be mimicked, and also sound itself altered as in the case of Messana reswearing the oaths...she could have said anything she wanted, but when it passed through the MOM weave everyone heard her reswear the oaths, and obviously she didn't.

[mb]

Actually, none of those re-swearings was on-screen.  the sound altering was the Mesaana hunters speculating which method she used; another speculation from them was that Mesaana sent a look-alike.  and the other speculation from them was that Mesaana had another Oath Rod.

 

edit::  they speculated only those 3 methods.  another possibility could be that she did not believe herself a Darkfriend.

[Orderofolde]

Since this is "Uses of the OP" board I have to ask...how cool would it have been during the last battle to see killing wards, and maybe invisible walls of air protecting the dragons and so many other things hinted at?  Like wards Rand used in the Waste for scouting to protect the armys' flanks to alert to Trollocs sneaking in behind the borderland army early on?  I have restarted the audiobooks yet again and just the basic stuff Moiraine hints at or uses or discusses such as killing wards in Shadar Logoth or later in the blight the weave that hid their camp would be awesome for a general to have access to.  Rodel Ituralde would have had a field day, not to mention Mat with his memories of Aes Sedai in battle during the Trolloc Wars and other occasions.  If he thought on the topic of using channelers, he would have had a better showing than a rushing river in the end, and Demandred wouldn't have been so uber powerful.  Invisibility weaves hiding pockets of cavalry to strike at Sharan flanks or archer companies...the potential was enormous.  

[mb]

Invisibility I take to be a stationary weave; not sure any channeler can make it move with its target.  and it does not block smell, and possibly not sound either.  thus it would be ineffective with cavalry; or with anyone/anything that needs to move.

 

the weave for protection; it does not block balefire, and nothing can come out from inside it.

 

wards would probably be most effective around unprotected areas that need protection.  and the eavesdropping ward I take to be the only kind of mobile ward.

[Sabio]

Also the more wards and more powerful you make your wards, the easier they are to detect.  Its why Rand couldn't protect the army from everything in the pass.  Killing wards in battle would pose a few problems.  With how quickly armies move about and gaining and losing ground you might need to move wards and if friendly folks move through you could end up killing friendlies.  Not to mention depending on the ward, you might have to place multiple wards for shadowspawn, humans, etc..

[Occams whiskey bottle]

Moraine made herself grow to the size of a giant and then stepped over a wall when she left the city in Eye of the World. That was supposed to be an illusion, but am not sure if that was original intent or if RJ changed his mind on what he wanted the power to do.

[Sabio]

I always wondered about that becuase the other time we saw something like that used was the Aes Sedai confronting Rand in Andor.  But I can't remember if they were standing still or walking.  But the whole stepping over the wall had me curious.

[Occams whiskey bottle]

I think he changed his mind and went back and said that it was an illusion. It wouldn't be the first time an author did that. If you've read ASoIaF you may remember a scene where Tyrion jumped from a wall, spun and somersaulted onto the ground like a gymnast. He doesn't do that anymore, and I don't recall any channeler doing anything like Moraine in EotW.

[mb]

about Aes Sedia confronting Rand in Caemlyn; if I recall correctly, they were standing still.

 

the Eye of World scene seems to not contradict later books.

in regards to size, Moiraine had an angreal and may have been using it at that time.

[Sabio]

"Moriane's shadowed shape towered high over the log palisade, head and shoulders a deeper darkness against the night sky, surrounded by a silver nimbus from the hidden moon.  As he watched, mouth hanging open, the Aes Sedai stepped over the wall.  The gates began swinging shut frantically.  As soon as her feet were on the ground outside, she was suddenly her normal size again."  I thought it might of been an illusion and she rode out but then it went on to say "Moraine hurried to Aldeib , stroking the mare's nose once and says "The mind plays tricks in the night' the eye sees what is not there".

 

So this makes it seem like it wasn't an illusion and she really made herself taller. 

[Kesiera_Sedai]

Invisibility I take to be a stationary weave; not sure any channeler can make it move with its target. and it does not block smell, and possibly not sound either. thus it would be ineffective with cavalry; or with anyone/anything that needs to move.

 

the weave for protection; it does not block balefire, and nothing can come out from inside it.

 

wards would probably be most effective around unprotected areas that need protection. and the eavesdropping ward I take to be the only kind of mobile ward.

[Kesiera_Sedai]

Yes. In LoC, Rand hides Egwene from Elaida's embassy using the invisibility weave, but they still sense her ability, however they think it's Moiraine.

The girls, however, were taught many ways, and ways to not only detect them, but even eavesdrop, and in book 13, we even see Egwene invent one on the spot to trick someone into trying to eavesdrop.