Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Niniel]

Okay, read it. I´m very thankful that you posted that list. It has not been clear (to me) what you have thought about people. I don´t agree with all your reads and I don´t like that you refer to Cory that much. Your connection to Oci still irks. 

 

 

I wish Dice would be here more. He is one of my town reads but I haven´t seen much from him lately. For some reason, Dice thinks that I read him well, but I really don´t. 

 

Leelou talking about me being a possible lynch target earlier felt like pure omgus. 

[keyholder21]

I might get through two today?

 

Leelou (vote 1 on Pral’s train):

 

 

I think the back and forth with Talya/Cory/Verb at the beginning of the game is pretty null.

Eldrick is not new to mafia. At all.

 

Does Eld usually ask questions like these?

Unfortunately, yes. He does it as either alignment.

 

As I said before, I like the clarification here. I don’t see mafia jumping on the opportunity to clear the picture up at all, but rather wait for someone else to do it.

 

@Tina - I'll answer you in depth when I get a chance to ISO her. Right now, slightly uneasy which means she's most likely town.

Have to look up scum!Lee, but I don’t remember her throwing out town reads like this so early.

 

 

Leelou Who are the wolves iyo

I need to actually read the thread in detail. My weekend was pretty consumed with hanging out with people and then being distracted. There are a few people that are new that I don't know how to read yet (Ocicat/Celeste/Wishtree/Taborline). Like I'm not thrilled with Ocicat, but I'm not sure if that's because they are newish and still in that awkward phase. Tress hasn't really said much that has been relevant, she discussed my vote on you, but I don't like how long we've gotten into D1 and she's not memorable to me. I don't have the best of feels from Sili, but I haven't had the time to read his posts in detail. Eldrick is not really concerning me. If he's scum it'll become obvious soon enough. Taborline has a mentor, but for some reason it feels like she isn't utilizing him. I don't really see Talya as scum here. She's a bit more collected. Tina I have on my mind to read her posts in detail, I'm normally able to read her early. I have to wait for Verb to be engaging to make a decision. Snow seemed on top of things, more leaning townie there. Dice, not really sure if his true conviction is there or not.

 

Imo, this post is more likely to come from a townie. More rattling thoughts off than watching what she says to not give too much away.

 

No problem. I dislike inactives.

Votes Pral right before this. Hm. Meh on this, although combined with the post above, I can see a reason for choosing an inactive over someone else when you are wavering on so many people.

 

I actually hate that Pral isn't voting.

This also seems townie. I don’t see a reason/need for scum to say this, that is to say it doesn’t nothing positive (or negative, true) for her if she is.

 

 

 

TL;DR

 

I'd put leelou a light green.

[keyholder21]

I wish Dice would be here more. He is one of my town reads but I haven´t seen much from him lately. For some reason, Dice thinks that I read him well, but I really don´t. 

 

Leelou talking about me being a possible lynch target earlier felt like pure omgus.

The underlined and the bold seem contradictory.  

 

Why do you think leelou talking about you earlier was omgus?

[keyholder21]

Ocicat (vote 2 on Pral’s train):

 

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

 

The first in a set of defensive posts. Not necessarily defensive in tone, but definitely defensive in language.

 

 

I agree with Sili's reasoning that she was halfhearted and contradictory in behavior. Additionally, she already has votes. If you're willing to vote and push your case against Verbal for poor content. And btw, going after those who have been absent and have said/done little is not the better course, as they can come in and do enough to look better, while Talya has been fairly active and yet has Sili's points against her. Going after people for bad content trumps going after those with little.

 

 

If you're willing to vote and push your case against Verbal for poor content. I might join, I meant.

 

Yes. My point is, out of the people who I would vote now, she has votes, and is the most lynchable. I will be busy tomorrow, and don't think I have the time to start a wagon myself. So I'm joining one I don't mind that's already there, but if you start another one I like more, I'll join that.

lol. You're misreading me, and if I may, being a little arrogant. This is not about supporting you. This is about that if you like other cases more than Talya's, make them and start the wagon if you want me or anyone else to join. Yes, we should wait for the low-content players to get into the game, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lynch today. And here's someone with a fair amount of content that has been pointed out as bad. Why shouldn't I lynch her, and who instead? Answer that with a case and vote instead of being passive-aggressive.

 

All the bold seems to point toward wanting to lynch someone whom you deem scummy that HAS CONTENT. Right now, specifically Talya.

 

 

*snipped*

 

My approach in general, simply put: Look for contradictions, logic errors, and slips, point them out, and identify and eliminate scum.

I was coming to that anyway, although I hope this doesn't just stay as a tie. Vote: Pralya

 

 

And to summarize what I was trying to post, Sooh, yes, that was a polished and crafted post, it was a defense against a valid point, not a free-flowing thought. Eldrick, I don't know any more than anyone else. Everyone knows their alignment. My point was that I couldn't defend my careless slip, but going after me would be an error.

 

What is the thought process here? Where do you go from wanting to lynch a scummy content person to someone with very few posts? Where do you go from wanting to vote Talya to wanting to vote Pral?

 

 

*snipped*

Why? Because a lynch is better than none. We could wait for a damning case and lose phases while the scum kill, or we could lynch someone that has suspicion on them. Pral has suspicion on him, it's a wagon I can see getting traction before the phase ends, and someone I actually townread is in favor of lynching him. And now, his lack of response to being called out for being inactive hurt his case further. There was no attempt to show he'd be around when he might be needed later.

 

Eldrick also had 2 votes on him and there was over an RL day before deadline. You hadn’t mentioned anything of being suspicious of Pral until your vote and then proceeded to say that you were scumreading him.

 

 

Continuing: Verbal is neutral to me right now, he's said he needs time to warm up and really start playing, and I've already seen a couple of good points, but I'm curious to see the real effort he promises. And out of the others, offhand, I have a good feeling about Tina, John, and Sooh, having seen good points from them, but now that I understand ISO'ing here, I can look at people in focus and get a better view. Once I get through that, I'll make a nice decorated list ^^

Can you please provide the ‘good points’?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TL;DR - For someone who looks for contradictions, I find a huge contradiction in Oci's multiple statements regarding lynching someone with content and then voting for Pral. I'd put him an orange for me.

 

[keyholder21]

ARG.

 

Fixed.

 

 

 

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

The first in a set of defensive posts. Not necessarily defensive in tone, but definitely defensive in language.

 

I agree with Sili's reasoning that she was halfhearted and contradictory in behavior. Additionally, she already has votes. If you're willing to vote and push your case against Verbal for poor content. And btw, going after those who have been absent and have said/done little is not the better course, as they can come in and do enough to look better, while Talya has been fairly active and yet has Sili's points against her. Going after people for bad content trumps going after those with little.

 

If you're willing to vote and push your case against Verbal for poor content. I might join, I meant.

 

*snipped*

Yes. My point is, out of the people who I would vote now, she has votes, and is the most lynchable. I will be busy tomorrow, and don't think I have the time to start a wagon myself. So I'm joining one I don't mind that's already there, but if you start another one I like more, I'll join that.

 

*snipped*

 

lol. You're misreading me, and if I may, being a little arrogant. This is not about supporting you. This is about that if you like other cases more than Talya's, make them and start the wagon if you want me or anyone else to join. Yes, we should wait for the low-content players to get into the game, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lynch today. And here's someone with a fair amount of content that has been pointed out as bad. Why shouldn't I lynch her, and who instead? Answer that with a case and vote instead of being passive-aggressive.

All the bold seems to point toward wanting to lynch someone whom you deem scummy that HAS CONTENT. Right now, specifically Talya.

 

*snipped*

 

My approach in general, simply put: Look for contradictions, logic errors, and slips, point them out, and identify and eliminate scum.

I was coming to that anyway, although I hope this doesn't just stay as a tie. Vote: Pralya

 

 

And to summarize what I was trying to post, Sooh, yes, that was a polished and crafted post, it was a defense against a valid point, not a free-flowing thought. Eldrick, I don't know any more than anyone else. Everyone knows their alignment. My point was that I couldn't defend my careless slip, but going after me would be an error.

What is the thought process here? Where do you go from wanting to lynch a scummy content person to someone with very few posts? Where do you go from wanting to vote Talya to wanting to vote Pral?

 

*snipped*

Why? Because a lynch is better than none. We could wait for a damning case and lose phases while the scum kill, or we could lynch someone that has suspicion on them. Pral has suspicion on him, it's a wagon I can see getting traction before the phase ends, and someone I actually townread is in favor of lynching him. And now, his lack of response to being called out for being inactive hurt his case further. There was no attempt to show he'd be around when he might be needed later.

Eldrick also had 2 votes on him and there was over an RL day before deadline. You hadn’t mentioned anything of being suspicious of Pral until your vote and then proceeded to say that you were scumreading him.

 

Continuing: Verbal is neutral to me right now, he's said he needs time to warm up and really start playing, and I've already seen a couple of good points, but I'm curious to see the real effort he promises. And out of the others, offhand, I have a good feeling about Tina, John, and Sooh, having seen good points from them, but now that I understand ISO'ing here, I can look at people in focus and get a better view. Once I get through that, I'll make a nice decorated list ^^

Can you please provide the ‘good points’?

 

 

 

TL;DR - For someone who looks for contradictions, I find a huge contradiction in Oci's multiple statements regarding lynching someone with content and then voting for Pral. I'd put him an orange for me.

[Talya]

Hope you feel better soon Mish, seems a lot of bad luck.

[keyholder21]

I had big plans of catching up tonight. But between the before mentioned friggin water leaking in our ceiling and finding out today I have an ulcer, I'm in a really shitty mood and I do not trust myself to post.

I was caught up in catching up so I didn't see this . I hope things start turning around for you soon love :/ *hugs*.

[Ocicat]

Key, trying to quote and reply to your post is proving impossible without the page refreshing and losing all my progress, so I can only offer you this. I had reasoning for voting Pral, not his lack of content, but his being too apathetic and refusing to respond to the idea that he might be AWOL later. Simply a statement that he was keeping up and would be around, or even that he would sub out if it got that far, would have been enough, but that didn't come from what I saw. Also, I switched because the Talya wagon was dead. My main aim was not to say "X is clearly scum", because I couldn't. But I don't want the game to stall either. With that in mind, I voted Talya, and when that stalled, went to the other wagon I saw as viable. I could have waited 'til a damning case came along, and/or put together one myself. But, which also answers your second point, I didn't know if I would in time, and in fact had gotten confused about how much time was left.
As for the "good points", I'll be perfectly honest, please don't make me struggle with my issues with the quote system here.​ I'm quite serious, it's really being a pain for me. :(

[Cory Caboose]

I figure there's a good chance I am going tonight so I am going to try to go through things in my head one more time and there's some things REALLY bothering me

 

1) Do not trust or weigh my read on Sooh at all this game. She's a player who probably likes leveling me and give hints to others on HOW to pocket me specifically. Basically, if everyone in the game thinks that she is a wolf and it's only my word defending her, I give you the right to ignore me or my previous read if I have passed.

 

2) I do not know how to read Wish/Celeste so see the above caveat on them. I think Wish in particular would focus on trying to fool me more than other players.

[Cory Caboose]

And I guess one final stupid thing:

It's going to be awhile before I get to live down the "Cory lynched the Cop d1" bluster I rightfully deserve from some of my jab buddies on this forum and it's going to be a great deal easier to live with if I can respond with "still won tho".

 

So if you are a villager this game, please just try to put a little extra chutzpah into the game. For me and my stupidity. I make myself look like a fool enough to deal with. Be an obvious villager, wear your alignment with pride, and do what you need to in order to steal a win from a game that's A) hard on the village and B) started very roughly thanks to a bad read by yours truly.

[Eldrick4221]

Aww. Feel better Mish.

 

FTR my today is better than my yesterday. The meds are doing the trick.

[Eldrick4221]

 

I wish Dice would be here more. He is one of my town reads but I haven´t seen much from him lately. For some reason, Dice thinks that I read him well, but I really don´t. 

 

Leelou talking about me being a possible lynch target earlier felt like pure omgus.

The underlined and the bold seem contradictory.  

 

Why do you think leelou talking about you earlier was omgus?

 

 

That is quite a contradiction. how can you townreading him if you don't read him well?

 

I also liked your points on ocicat. Adding it to the mental list against him.

[Eldrick4221]

And I guess one final stupid thing:

 

It's going to be awhile before I get to live down the "Cory lynched the Cop d1" bluster I rightfully deserve from some of my jab buddies on this forum and it's going to be a great deal easier to live with if I can respond with "still won tho".

 

So if you are a villager this game, please just try to put a little extra chutzpah into the game. For me and my stupidity. I make myself look like a fool enough to deal with. Be an obvious villager, wear your alignment with pride, and do what you need to in order to steal a win from a game that's A) hard on the village and B) started very roughly thanks to a bad read by yours truly.

I don't think you deserve those jabs. He didn't know he was the cop, and therefore didn't defend himself the way a cop would.

[Eldrick4221]

You were wrong about a read. It happens. Stop beating yourself up about it.

[Sooh]

I figure there's a good chance I am going tonight so I am going to try to go through things in my head one more time and there's some things REALLY bothering me

 

1) Do not trust or weigh my read on Sooh at all this game. She's a player who probably likes leveling me and give hints to others on HOW to pocket me specifically. Basically, if everyone in the game thinks that she is a wolf and it's only my word defending her, I give you the right to ignore me or my previous read if I have passed.

 

2) I do not know how to read Wish/Celeste so see the above caveat on them. I think Wish in particular would focus on trying to fool me more than other players.

It's true. I do like being able to pocket you, but I think those days are done for me. Seems you've been quite able to read me this game at least.

 

And as mafia I don't think I would have been quite as ready to challenge your read on me and ask for your reasons for reading me that way. 

 

Also the lynching the cop thing. I am with Eldrick here. Nobody, not even the cop himself, knew his role. And I was certainly helping to take him down, so I can't blame you for it. 

[Celeste]

Honestly the reason I voted Pral is because seemed off. Didn't seem really town like to me when he posted. 

[Songstress]

i just had a fun little exercise making a color coded chart of people's reads lists (and/or compiling what reads they have given, if they didn't do a full list).

 

Very interesting. 

 

It also served as a quick mini-ISO for those who didn't actually do a full list.  This is going to help me quite a bit, I think.

[Eldrick4221]

i just had a fun little exercise making a color coded chart of people's reads lists (and/or compiling what reads they have given, if they didn't do a full list).

 

Very interesting.

 

It also served as a quick mini-ISO for those who didn't actually do a full list. This is going to help me quite a bit, I think.

I mean to do that every game. I'm gonna attempt it when I get home tonight.

[Eldrick4221]

Speculation time.

 

We know we had a cop. I would be surprised if we didn't also have a doc and a vig,

 

I'm also assuming that Loki is a SK. It makes sense, given his wincon.

 

I'm personally expecting 3 kills tonight.

 

i'm also willing to bet some of us are vanilla, submitting meaningless actions unknowingly. It just fits the theme. (Given my luck with roles, I'm one of them :/)

[Eldrick4221]

Ok. finally have the time and the energy to do a reread. I'm here if anyone wants to talk.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

Hi JS.

 

Anything you'd like to discuss?

Thoughts on the last two pages?

 

It just sounds to me like a normal game start here on DM. I have played with Sili multiple times, and apart from that little hint of being antsy in his initial interaction with me I don't see anything out of the ordinary. Like Eldrick says though, it's something I want to keep an eye on. All of this initial stuff becomes more important to me later in the game when analyzing interactions with people. 

 

Reads as I want to sound like I'm saying stuff. 

 

What do you think of Sili's entry? Or Lenlo's? Or Ocicat's? Or Sili's thoughts on those entries? Or my thoughts on Sili's thoughts on those entries?

 

Give me some real content. Persuade me you're town. 

 

 

 

 

sooh I agree regarding sili's early posts   but I thought they got better once he and snow started.

 

Do you agree?

 

Your feeding has been noted. 

 

 

Snow, what issue did you have with Sooh talking about her feelings on Sili's play at this point, or Dice agreeing with her? You seem to feel it wasn't game solving information, but I disagree.

[Eldrick4221]

So JS votes Sooh with no reason. Tries to get her to share her thoughts, Then unvotes saying that she tends to not share thoughts until there are flips. i'm trying and failing to understand his process here.

 

Why did you vote her in the first place?

[Eldrick4221]

Interesting. Cory hinting at mafia having had the opportunity to talk before the game started, and then Talya immediately suggesting that Sili and I have staged our conversation. That's convenient. 

I didn't pay too much attention to this the first time around, but it caught my eye this time.

 

What WIFOM are you pulling here? Are you guys actually scum together? I could see this going either way, so I'm just gonna note it for now.

[Eldrick4221]

Aaand the laziness is creeping back in. Gonna take a break for now.

 

It's worth mentioning, though, that JS has caught my attention several times in the beginning there. Not sure if it means anything, but it's odd that he keeps popping up on my radar.

[Sooh]

 

Interesting. Cory hinting at mafia having had the opportunity to talk before the game started, and then Talya immediately suggesting that Sili and I have staged our conversation. That's convenient. 

I didn't pay too much attention to this the first time around, but it caught my eye this time.

 

What WIFOM are you pulling here? Are you guys actually scum together? I could see this going either way, so I'm just gonna note it for now.

 

I talked about this post earlier as well in terms of the wording. In terms of WIFOM I kind of felt that was what Talya was doing, raising suspicions like that.