Ragnarok Game Thread - Game Over, Town Wins!

[Leelou]

<snip>

 

 

Leelou Who are the wolves iyo

 

I need to actually read the thread in detail. My weekend was pretty consumed with hanging out with people and then being distracted. There are a few people that are new that I don't know how to read yet (Ocicat/Celeste/Wishtree/Taborline). Like I'm not thrilled with Ocicat, but I'm not sure if that's because they are newish and still in that awkward phase. Tress hasn't really said much that has been relevant, she discussed my vote on you, but I don't like how long we've gotten into D1 and she's not memorable to me. I don't have the best of feels from Sili, but I haven't had the time to read his posts in detail. Eldrick is not really concerning me. If he's scum it'll become obvious soon enough. Taborline has a mentor, but for some reason it feels like she isn't utilizing him. I don't really see Talya as scum here. She's a bit more collected. Tina I have on my mind to read her posts in detail, I'm normally able to read her early. I have to wait for Verb to be engaging to make a decision. Snow seemed on top of things, more leaning townie there. Dice, not really sure if his true conviction is there or not. 

 

 

What do you mean by this?

 

 

Just by some of her posts. Like our dynamic. She asked on thread but that is something Yates could have told her. Yes it's good to ask on thread, but she still seems like she's a bit of a fish out of water. Then again, I've been mostly skimming the game so I could be completely wrong. 

[Cory Caboose]

Yates would have been gone all weekend anyway probably

 

Another part-time DMer soab

[Cory Caboose]

 

Might have had something to do with why I was scoping her out over the weekend 

 

[Niniel]

Seriously, does anyone else ever feel like they have those days where you just can't form proper coherent sentences? It feels like my brain is only functioning at 50% today.

 

Oh, yes. Sometimes I get a fluffy white cloud in my head. All signals goes in but nothing comes out. 

 

VOTE COUNT

Eldrick (1) - Lenlo

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick

Talya (3) - WishLESTE, Sili, Ocicat

 

Not voting (10): Songstress, Leelou, Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya, Talya, Sooh, Keyboose, John Snow, Mish

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

 

 

I don´t like any of the votes on Talya. Wish/Celeste had a "gutfeeling", I didn´t understand Sili´s explanation for voting Talya at all (or more correct I don´t think his case is right) and Oci´s vote was just a bw vote.

 

I must say that I´m starting to wonder a bit about Sili. This is the style that I was used to when we played together and he was town. But all these votes and unvotes, and now his case on Talya that I don´t understand... I don´t know. 

 

 

Will take a new look at Ocicat (not that I think I will change my mind, more to explain why I vote him). 

[Kivam]

 

VOTE COUNT

Eldrick (1) - Lenlo

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick

Talya (3) - WishLESTE, Sili, Ocicat

 

Not voting (10): Songstress, Leelou, Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya, Talya, Sooh, Keyboose, John Snow, Mish

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

[Taborline]

Yates would have been gone all weekend anyway probably

 

Another part-time DMer soab

 

He has been, yes.

[Niniel]

About Ocicat. I´ll start with Sili´s quotes since I liked it. 

 

Let's break down Ocicat's progress.

 

1. Comes on around 11:33pm. A bit of fluff.

2.  1 hour later snow jokes about modkilling a player that isn't on the roster.

3. Ocicat is lurking therefore he sees it right away and responds:

 

 

I don't know about norms and what's off for people here, but making judgments about that already feels off to me.

 

PLS LINK ME TO SPEC THREAD KIVAM THANK YOU

 

MODSMODSMODSMODS

 

He edited his post. Modkill him. 

 

 

And I'll assume this is a joke, but kinda aggressive, no?

Vote: John Snow

 

4. He knows he should engage in the game at this point. Therefore his first game related post is very flaccid and forced. He makes no attempt to read anyone else. He construes an uninformative post as meaningful in order to make content. I insist that there were other posts to pick a part.

5. He goes away/to sleep after making one game related post. He has not been on since. If the above fos directed at snow was in fact a meta-vote, then two questions: 1. why didn't he meta-vote someone over a better reason in the first hour of play; 2, why hasn't he followed up in the last 15 hours?

 

 

Ok, here's your response, Sili. You have a case against me, namely, as I understand, that I have made one relevant but terrible post so far. You can lynch me over it, but I can assure you that would be a mistake. Or you can consider that the post in question was simply a regrettable error. You have this idea that I posted for the sake of activity, but have you entertained the idea that maybe I thought I saw something? Or would you still like to punish me for carelessness? I can't fight that, of course. So why didn't I respond and continue to talk? Perhaps because I recognized that line of thought was in error and saw no value in continuing. But, you say, there are plenty other things I could have commented on by now? Well then. I don't see them. Would you want to lynch me for not seeing the same things you say you do? Or if they're so clear to you, why not enlighten me? I will freely admit I wasn't paying enough attention, if you show me there's what I should have seen. Hm?

 

Here Oci answers Sili. I don´t like it. He is basically saying that he himself noticed the error and regretted it but he never posted about it. And I think the defence is a bit too strong. (The "mistake" defence.)

 

 

Should I lynch Celeste instead of you? I mean you are playing into her meta of you too cleanly. So either you are a wolf who aims to be fit snug into the excuses you're given, or she is a wolf and knows your alignment.

 

Can't say. I've noted that she jumped to my defense, but why can't she be town trying to defend town by pointing out what they know of them? You talk about analysis, but I get the feeling you're starting from the assumption that certain actions have scummy reasons. Perhaps we've both simply made mistakes?

 

 

Then comes the stuff with Wish/Celeste, who had defended him. Here he defends them in turn. 

 

Possibly. Didnt sound like she cared about your alignment though.

 

 

And? She shouldn't be bringing my alignment into the discussion, as she shouldn't know it yet.

 

More defence. 

 

.......I rather dislike the posting system here. Anyway, remnants of the post I tried to put together: Sili, you go from having me and wishleste at equal chances of being scum to giving me a slight edge. As I haven't been around today, why? Wish hasn't posted either, and Celeste made two low-content posts. On that note, there's Mish's read of Celeste appearing "on", which is the opposite of yours, from what I understand, having called her incoherent. Yet you haven't responded to that, from what I see. Is she above your challenging her? 

 

But later he tries to turn Sili´s focus to Wish/Celste instead. But also on Mish. 

 

 

No idea what you're saying about mish and why i should react to her reads. I don't really care unless they are informative.

 

Her read was the opposite of yours, yet you didn't care that she seemed to be seeing something completely different than you?

 

 

It´s not like he seems suspicious of Wish/Celeste or Mish - just wanting Sili to focus elsewhere. 

 

 

With Misheru's endorsement of Celeste, I feel it worth noting that Celeste had called on her specifically for thoughts before.

 

And here he just answers their questions. 

 

 

Ocicat, what would you say that your strategy for this game is?

My approach in general, simply put: Look for contradictions, logic errors, and slips, point them out, and identify and eliminate scum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ocicat, what would you say that your strategy for this game is?

My approach in general, simply put: Look for contradictions, logic errors, and slips, point them out, and identify and eliminate scum.

 

Yo. Could you answer my other question?

Going to keep all your answers in my memory bank, BTW.

 

Both questions have the same answer. How do I help town? By finding scum.

 

 

 

Ok, I see a decent case, and I'm getting bored. Vote: Talya​, ​​although anyone on Sili's list is fair game​.

 

Then we have his latest vote with really weird reason. 

 

I agree with Sili's reasoning that she was halfhearted and contradictory in behavior. Additionally, she already has votes. If you're willing to vote and push your case against Verbal for poor content. And btw, going after those who have been absent and have said/done little is not the better course, as they can come in and do enough to look better, while Talya has been fairly active and yet has Sili's points against her. Going after people for bad content trumps going after those with little.

 

I don´t agree about Talya. 

 

If you're willing to vote and push your case against Verbal for poor content. I might join, I meant.

 

Here it looks like he is willing to just jump on another train. (Btw. I didn´t understand Sili´s connection between Talya and Verbal.)

 

 

 

I feel good about my vote. It´s probably too early (at least for me) to draw lines between players but it seems to be one between Oci and Wish/Celeste.

[michellem]

Reading it again now, it does feel like Oci is trying very hard to make a connection between me and Celeste, and also me and him. Ick. I feel used.

[Niniel]

Leaning town:

 

Cory/Key

Taborline

Talya

Snow

 

Leaning mafia:

 

Ocicat 

Wish/Celeste 

Leelou

 

 

 

The rest is people that I don´t have a feeling on or have mixed feelings about. I´m not good at big games so I have not focused on all players. 

[Cory Caboose]

[v]Pral[/v]

 

Been patient, losing patience

[Songstress]

I'm just gonna drop this apology here... Procrastination is one of my biggest talents, and I was incredibly lazy on Saturday.  Yesterday, I had every intention of doing a full re-read of the thread, but I was stupidly sleepy all afternoon and couldn't scare up the brain power.  If I'd known how rotten I'd feel on Sunday I would have taken the time on Saturday night instead of lazing about.

 

I'm not a morning person, so I only got through about 15 pages so far this morning and it's time to get ready for work, which means the re-read is on pause until I get home.  I'm much better at thinking clearly in the evening anyway.

 

What my notes look like so far, for those who are waiting with bated breath for my input ( )...

 

=====

 

 

On the town side:

 

Dice - definitely town, and I am not likely to budge from this opinion.  I know what Town!Dice looks like, and I'm sure I've seen him here.

CorKey - probable town - will re-evaluate later, and Cory knows me well enough to know what I'm thinking here.

Lenlo - town vibes - little bit of tinfoil about his decision to change his play style abruptly, but I also believe that making a conscious decision to change your play is less of a risk as town than as mafia, so I'll put that on the back burner.

 

 

I remember mild good feelings from my first read, but am planning to look at their interactions specifically:

 

Wishleste - especially want to look here because of the number of people who find them suspicious. I can't really point to anything one way or another from memory.

Sooh

Mish

 

 

People that I am prone to feeling like they're mafia at all times because they tend to say things that I'd never consider a good idea:

 

Sili - Cory feels good about him, and I feel good about Cory, so I'll leave it for now

Eldrick - looks questionable with the Loki wincon deal, but this could just be one of those things that baffles me because I'd never say it

 

 

Not sure / re-reading to firm up opinions:

 

Tina - more recent posts have me feeling positive, will confirm on re-read.

Tab

Pral - not enough content yet

Talya

Snow

Ocicat - another one I'm going to pay extra attention to on re-read.

 

 

Not feeling so good about atm:

 

Leelou - anyone who expects me to be memorable D1 is going to be disappointed - D1 is when I watch and think and fence sit relentlessly until we start getting flips and I can start interpreting what things mean.   Still not following her decision to vote Cory when she did not believe that his suggestion that mafia had 4 days to strategize before the game started was actually correct - if she did not think it could be true, why would that make him mafia?  

 

Verb - suggested an explanation for Leelou's vote on Cory (TMI), which she agreed with - again, not sure why this would be a logical conclusion if she did not believe it was true, and I'm not sure which one of them looks worse to me for it.  The way they were tag-teaming Cory before his explanation about the hydra QT bothered me.

 

==========

 

This is all based on sketchy thread recall and 15 pages or so of a re-read and will definitely be expanded on tonight.  Even if I can't finish the full reread I promise to make further notes.  Pinky swear.

[Songstress]

[v]Pral[/v]

 

Been patient, losing patience

 

Why losing patience?  You've played with Pral enough to know that he very rarely posts at all on Day 1 as either alignment.

[Niniel]

Leaning town:

 

Cory/Key

Taborline

Talya

Snow

 

Leaning mafia:

 

Ocicat 

Wish/Celeste 

Leelou

 

 

 

The rest is people that I don´t have a feeling on or have mixed feelings about. I´m not good at big games so I have not focused on all players. 

 

Not sure why some disappeared. Add Dice to town and maybe Sili. 

[Kivam]

 

VOTE COUNT

Eldrick (1) - Lenlo

Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick

Talya (3) - WishLESTE, Sili, Ocicat

Pral (1) - KeyBOOSE

Not voting (9): Songstress, Leelou, Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya, Talya, Sooh, John Snow, Mish

 

9 to lynch

 

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

[Talya]

Half way through reread:

 

I liked sili's interaction with Ocicat and celeste. I have quoted above the post I want Celeste to answer. She posted knowing that if pushed Ocicat reveals himself, and yet, she didn't push him and didn't say what it was that you needed to look for after the interaction between sili and ocicat. It came across as a post that is looking like being involved but not really. Would like to hear her thought on Oci

 

It made me feel better Sili, he looked good here. I think his case on me is grasping at straws, so that brings it down again. His reaction to Oci surprised me, I would have thought he would say something about that, because Oci's reasoning was poor, and opportunist, rather do any work himself.

 

Sooh is certainly more fiesty than her last game, but she wasn't around so much in that game.

 

This is chaneable, but as of now reads list: (they are in no particular order in the groups)

 

Town:

 

JS - I have like his posts reminds me of BM game

Eld - Honest answers, mush clearer in what he says

Lenlo - Like his response to me and to Sili earlier on

Mish - Seems more engaged in this game, when she is here

Tina - Posts reminds me again of BM

 

Slight town/want to be town (means I want them to be):

 

Sili - he's a big player, done some things I have like, some not so much, this is more hoping he is town at present

Cory - I like his play and also want him to be town (but I can be fooled, so reluctant to put you up further)

Sooh - I like the feisty Sooh, I have doubts about it being town/sooh...but willing to go slight for now, her responses to me have been good.

Leelou - liked her response to me, but just a little wary of her.

 

Null:

 

Pral - haven't seen much to comment

Dice - Want to see more of before I decide

Tress - as with Dice

Verb - now he's back want to see his take on events before I feel I can put him in town or not

Tab - Like a few of her posts, still working out

 

Slightly on the wolfy side:

 

Oci - not liked the tone of his posts (I think it seems to be a theme - so it could be just him and I need to get used to it), I thought his vote on me was opportunistic. The reason he's not high as scum, is because I can't believe he would really do that as wolf...but I don't know enough, so for now in the scummy pile

 

Wish/Celeste - There have been a few questions, a lot of them about is it normal for people to say this or that. I didn't like Celeste's post about Oci, said it above. I'm not sure that Oci and Celeste/wish are likely to be wolves, so puts me in a quandry about the two here.

 

[v]Wish/Celeste[/v] out of the two, this is my strongest wolf read.

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

[v]Pral[/v]

Been patient, losing patience

 

 

Why losing patience?  You've played with Pral enough to know that he very rarely posts at all on Day 1 as either alignment.

A lot of people have been villagery which forces him lower

 

Know he's inactive a great deal but that doesn't mean he's any more likely to be a villager

 

It's been four days and I'd rather kill dead weight with wolf equity than anyone else aorn

[Kivam]

VOTE COUNT

Eldrick (1) - Lenlo
Ocicat (3) - Tina, Dice, Eldrick
Talya (3) - WishLESTE, Sili, Ocicat

Pral (1) - KeyBOOSE

WishLeste (1) - Talya

 

Not voting (8): Songstress, Leelou, Verbal, Taborline, Pralaya, Sooh, John Snow, Mish

9 to lynch

DEADLINE IS NOON EASTERN ON WEDNESDAY. No Majority = No lynch

[Verbal32]

Leelou - anyone who expects me to be memorable D1 is going to be disappointed - D1 is when I watch and think and fence sit relentlessly until we start getting flips and I can start interpreting what things mean.   Still not following her decision to vote Cory when she did not believe that his suggestion that mafia had 4 days to strategize before the game started was actually correct - if she did not think it could be true, why would that make him mafia?  

 

Verb - suggested an explanation for Leelou's vote on Cory (TMI), which she agreed with - again, not sure why this would be a logical conclusion if she did not believe it was true, and I'm not sure which one of them looks worse to me for it.  The way they were tag-teaming Cory before his explanation about the hydra QT bothered me.

 

C'mon Tress, you've played with both of us plenty of times before.  Do you see us team up like that when we are both scum?  Hell no.  So either we are both town, or one of us is scum.  To push that point further, when one is scum and the other isn't, we tend to ignore the other as we find it difficult to engage.  But in this game we've joked back and forth and joined in an effort to push Cory a bit.  It generated an initial read on him (from me), and I'm cool with that.  If anything, it makes Leelou look better because I didn't feel like anything was forced.

 

Can you explain the bold, though?  I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.  It could still be logical even if she doesn't think it is true....?

[Songstress]

@ Verb - I already explained it. She put it on record that she did not believe the mafia were able to talk for the four days between the role PM's going out and the game starting. I don't get why it would be logical to assume someone else is mafia because they did think that.

 

As for the teaming up as scum, it's true that you don't typically do that. In fact, your on-thread interactions are usually incredibly awkward when you're both mafia, and you're both well aware of it. Leelou seems to be quite sensitive about people using your on-thread interactions to read the two of you, so it's probably best if you don't try to appeal to that meta.

 

I'm not saying I am sold on you guys both being mafia, or even either of you. As I said, I need to finish rereading, and I wanted to put what I had so far out there so people can see what my current thought process looks like.

[Sooh]

Alright. I said I'd take a look at Eldrick, so here goes.

 

His post about Loki's wincon didn't really bother me. I think he just saw it as an opportunity to have something game related to discuss to start the game off, and that again might have given us clues about people's alignments. I didn't read it as "I am disappointed that I don't get to see you people discussing my wincon" or "I'm disappointed my wincon was posted" as some have suggested it might have looked like. It's fishing for Loki the way I see it. 

 

In this post he talks about Ocicat's defense, and I do have to agree with him, that post is odd. Ocicat sounds like he's addressing a judge with a pre-written, well edited response. It doesn't seem like free flowing thoughts or ideas, but rather something he has spent time on trying to make sound good, and thereby making it weird.

 

I agree with him that both town and mafia should be Loki-hunting. The game will clear up once Loki is gone and we know what kind of roles and NAs are available for us. Blindly performing NAs when you don't know if you're a vig or a doc makes it rather complicated I'd say. But that's a digression. Back to Eldrick.

 

I do note that early on he agreed with me on Sili seeming antsy, then he follows up after I talk about being a fence-sitter about being on the fence himself. When I question Cory about his read on me, Eldrick chimes in and has issues with Cory not elaborating on his read as well. I get iffy when people jump up and back me up like that with no explanation. Doesn't mean he can't actually be feeling that way in a towny way though. 

 

This post I picked really because I wanted to talk more about Celeste and Dice than Eldrick to be fair. I feel like Celeste was trying to say that even if the mafia QT was open 4 days before the game started, it's not likely that Kivam would give them the opportunity to talk and prepare. I think she was talking about the mod more than the actual mafia, which, as Dice said, could have had a good chance to get ready. I am not sure why Dice would interpret her post the way he did. Overall I do have a town feel for Dice this game. 

 

 

 

ROSTER:

 

1 Songstress
2 TinaHel
3 Leelou
4 Verbal
5 Keyboose [keyholder/cory hydra]
6 Dicetosser
7 Eldrick
8 Taborline (mentored by Yates)
9 Sili
10 Lenlo
11 Mish
12 Pral
13 Talya
14 Jon Snow
15 Ocicat
16 Wishleste [wishtree/celeste hydra]
17 Sooh

 

I'm gonna keep in mind what Cory said about Sooh. The only game I remember playing with her when she was scum, she was inactive due to RL issues. I don't know how to properly read her yet.

 

I've played a decent number of games with Sili. I'm usually right about his alignment, but then again he's usually town. I'm not one that gets caught up with his weirdness and thinks he's scum when he's not. The only game I can remember him being scum was the SW game when he was a traitor, and didn't know it til it happened. That was a weird dynamic, and not a good basis on reading.

 

Lenlo and Cat have Loki equity as I have already mentioned. Could easily be wrong about both of them, but being as I haven't seen anything scummy, this is where I'm going for now.

 

Everyone else is strictly null so far. It takes a while for be to get town reads, and several people don't have much content to base reads off of yet.

 

(P.S. Still wanna lynch hyrdas, but that's not enough reason to do so)

 

Bold: You hadn't really mentioned Loki-eq up until this point. Yes, sure you had been voting Ocicat and had some suspicions about Lenlo, but nothing that really stands out in your posts at least. Perhaps you can talk a bit about what you mean by Loki-eq, and why this is seeing as you haven't seen anything scummy. 

 

This post, from bolded part and out, is strange to me. Maybe this is why I have been feeling iffy about Eldrick lately. 

 

This post, about all the vote hopping that Sili does. Vote hopping on D1 in general is to be expected, and I have seen Sili do this before. He leaves a vote on someone for a little while and then skips to the next. I don't really find this a strong reason to vote him, but if there's more there that I'm not seeing I'm willing to listen. Sili has this ability to quickly sway from towny to scummy and right back in my eyes. 

 

I can see where he comes from in this post with the vote on Ocicat. Ocicat's vote on Talya and the reasoning behind it was strange.

 

Regarding the quoted post and the Loki-eq: I see now what you mean by saying you mentioned Lenlo being a possible Loki as you explained that later. I still would like to know why you think they are Loki as opposed to scum. What in Ocicat's posts makes you think he's Loki? 

 

 

Summarizing: well, I'm not sure I'm any closer to a conclusion on Eldrick after this. I would like to see how he responds to my questions first of all. He remains in the gray null area for me for now. 

[Sili Quirrels]

t made me feel better Sili, he looked good here. I think his case on me is grasping at straws, so that brings it down again.

 

 

When cory posted about wolves having had time to strategize, what did you think about Cory?

[Sooh]

Who are you quoting, Sili?

[Sili Quirrels]

@TAlya.

[Cory Caboose]

 

When cory posted about wolves having had time to strategize, what did you think about Cory?

 

 

hoping for "handsome devil with a sharp tongue but a heart of gold"

[Leelou]

@ Verb - I already explained it. She put it on record that she did not believe the mafia were able to talk for the four days between the role PM's going out and the game starting. I don't get why it would be logical to assume someone else is mafia because they did think that.

 

As for the teaming up as scum, it's true that you don't typically do that. In fact, your on-thread interactions are usually incredibly awkward when you're both mafia, and you're both well aware of it. Leelou seems to be quite sensitive about people using your on-thread interactions to read the two of you, so it's probably best if you don't try to appeal to that meta.

 

I'm not saying I am sold on you guys both being mafia, or even either of you. As I said, I need to finish rereading, and I wanted to put what I had so far out there so people can see what my current thought process looks like.

 

I think you all are missing the point that I purposely harassed Cory to get a reaction. I didn't care what I really said, just as long as I got a read from it. I'm late for the train, so running now!