Rand al'Thor's personality

[DragonSpawn]

What personally bothers you or what do you particularly like about Rand's personality.

 

Me personally in the book I wonder why RJ portrayed Rand the way he is at the moment. He seems like a craven boy who tries to deal with the mantle that is put on him but fails badly at most he tries or he could have done it better. Also shrouds himself in hypocrisy.

 

Other characters in the WoT, such as LTT and Artur Paendrag would in my opinion be much more suited or their personalities much more suited to take on the role Rand has.

Lets take Colavaere for example, she commits high treason yet instead of just commanding her execution as he would undoubtly if she had been a man (considerring her charges of murder of loyal subjects of his on top of treason) he tries all kinds of hypocritical actions that imply weakness.

 

Same LTT doesn't seem to suffer awful qualms. While he takes over Rand's body at Dumai Wells for a short time, he punishes the Aes Sedai who are holding him with a punishment considerred worse then death. He stilled them.

 

 

Rand seems to have a way of being awfully weak in the face of his enemies and this has almost cost him his life more than once. I believe Randland would be in a much better condition to face the Last Battle would Rand have the personality of LTT or even Paendrag. At least Elaida would not be playing games with him, since she would be cowed to respect, neither would Egwene or others be particularly willing to cross his way when he wants something.

 

 

Am I the only one who has the opinion Rand is weak as a leader? And it would perhaps be preferable if LTT would permanently take over Rand's body, to force everything into order for the Last Battle that is nigh.

[Safia al-Maaz]

Elaida would show no respect. She only thinks about the prophesy about the Rand "knowing the Amyrlin's wrath", and automatically assumes it's going to be her. Therefore, she acts like she can do anything she wants. I personally think it will be Egwene, especially since she is not afraid of Rand and has no reason to be since Rand would never hurt her.

[Guest LurkingFadeFetcher]

I actually think you are right in that in many ways Rand is a weak leader. But what do you expect, he's a backwoods sheepherder whos only come to power within the last couple of years. hes still learning how to do this.

 

When the books started out i thought Rand was a great character. that lasted until the end of book 5 for me. As that is when he became an arrogant bucket who thought everyone should bow before him simply because of how he is. He was a great person at first, but he became a snob. Fortunately Cadsuane seems to be helping with that.

[Hannah Banana]

Rand should not be in a position of leadership of nations. He doesn't like it, and it doesn't suit her personality. And I think if he survives TG, he won't be. He doesn't like the deceit and back-stabbing.

 

Right now, he a boulder rolling toward TG, and he wants all of Randland to be united behind him. And he only know how to FORCE them to unite (and he may have a point) so he is fairly "ruthless" as he gathers everyone together.

 

Guy's been under a lot of stress though. Those crazy women hanging on him, all the physical problems he's having to deal with. He just wants everyone to survive TG, but people just get in his way the whole time.

[Guest LurkingFadeFetcher]

I gotta admit he has been under alot of pressure.

first he's forced to leave his home suddenly and unexpectedly, only to be separated from all his friends and dragged into the blight to fight a couple of forsaken.At which point he is cursed enough to channel.Then he is told he's the guy thats going to save and destroy the world and is forced to come to grips with it. the list goes on and on and i skipped a bunch, so I guess i can't really blame him. he's gotta be close to a complete emotional breakdown from everything. :(

[DragonSpawn]

Rand should not be in a position of leadership of nations. He doesn't like it' date=' and it doesn't suit her personality. And I think if he survives TG, he won't be. He doesn't like the deceit and back-stabbing.

 

Right now, he a boulder rolling toward TG, and he wants all of Randland to be united behind him. And he only know how to FORCE them to unite (and he may have a point) so he is fairly "ruthless" as he gathers everyone together.

 

Guy's been under a lot of stress though. Those crazy women hanging on him, all the physical problems he's having to deal with. He just wants everyone to survive TG, but people just get in his way the whole time.[/color']

 

I agree he is not ideally made for the ruling of many nations. There are two ways to rule through being beloved by the people or through sheer brutality that no one dares question your authority. Rand implies neither and so walks on a terribly thin line of throwing everything into anarchy.

He can get himself power, but holding the newly won power is always the trial for him.

 

As for Elaida. If Rand had had the 50 Aes Sedai who assaulted the Tower executed as he would enemy soldiers and in theory as an extra their corpses hung in public display in Caemlyn or just have them all stilled, travel them to the WT and drop them off at the gates for all Aes Sedai to observe. Any kind of rebellion would have stalled for the time being in Andor and possibly elsewhere.

Simply because Aes Sedai are seen as nigh invincible he would have easily clapped shut two dangers. Lords and Ladies are less likely to rebel when even all powerful Aes Sedai cannot stand up to him without losing everything.

 

It doesn't have to be as extreme examples. But simply examples of strength to your enemies. And Rand seems awfully reluctant to set examples to his enemies and instead gives off signs of extreme weakness.

I doubt Elaida would have done much more plotting with over 50 sisters either dead or stilled as a result of her actions. She would have to face too much flak on her homefront to even think of dealing with anything else.

Same with nobles who rebel. Colavaere is the best example. He exiles her instead of giving the proper punishment for the crimes of murder and high treason. The best example is again to set a sign of power, he should have just had one of his ashaman, channel a noose to form in the roof as all the assembled nobles observed and hanged Colavaere right there. The present nobles would be scared into obedience by the act of the male one power on top of a newly crowned regent just being disposed of as if she were nothing of a challenge to his power.

Again it doesn't have to be such an extreme example, however the matter is one of setting an example. Something which Rand is too weak to do often.

[Gaul]

So true. Does anyone know why Rand is reluctent to kill hurt torture or even order women to their deaths? I mean I was thinking one day of the people who have the right to punch/slap him and call him by his name the list was

Being called by his name :

1. Min

2.Avi

3.Elayne

4.Mat

5.Perrin

6. Tam

7.Nya

8.Lan

9.Thom

10.Moiraine

11. Every woman on the face of the earth

 

Then I went to being physicaly hurt

 

1.ELayne

2.Avi

3.Min

4.Mat

5.Perrin

6. Maybe tam

7. Every woman on the face of the earth

 

 

Well anyway im just trying to say he won't touch a women (Besides El Avi and min) or even hurt them kill them or order them to their deathers how many people agree with this chart? :P

[aes_sedaiwrong]

i didnt bother readin any of this. yeah so dont say it i really dont care.

 

NOW THEN

one common happeniong through ALL of the book (we see it especalliy when birgettei comes)

THE STORIES GLORIFY HERSO

we know all of them had thire own issues. evry1 deos.

artur was killde for his pride

LTT? pride

pride.

 

 

alos: rand is the universes scapegoat. ALL the bad shit happens to him. cut him som slack. even though i agree he can be pretty bitchy sumtimse and needs ot really calm down sumtimes

[kobra_khan69]

i didnt bother readin any of this. yeah so dont say it i really dont care.

 

NOW THEN

one common happeniong through ALL of the book (we see it especalliy when birgettei comes)

THE STORIES GLORIFY HERSO

we know all of them had thire own issues. evry1 deos.

artur was killde for his pride

LTT? pride

pride.

 

 

alos: rand is the universes scapegoat. ALL the bad Bela's Droppings in a Bag! happens to him. cut him som slack. even though i agree he can be pretty bitchy sumtimse and needs ot really calm down sumtimes

 

 

That made my head hurt . What were you trying to say? That Rand has too much pride?

[aes_sedaiwrong]

ur right that was poorly structured. yes i guess he is prideful sumtimes, but mainly im trying to say all th heroes are amde to seem more than what they were. sorry i structured that :oops: like a total nooblet lmao, still funny.

[DragonSpawn]

ur right that was poorly structured. yes i guess he is prideful sumtimes' date=' but mainly im trying to say all th heroes are amde to seem more than what they were. sorry i structured that :oops: like a total nooblet lmao, still funny.[/quote']

 

,................

[aes_sedaiwrong]

now what was the point of spamming? critisize constructivly, or maintain acuity with the subject.

 

we like germaneness here.

 

poor rand though. i feel sorry for him,but i kinda dont. its a complicated manner lmao. but then again his terdness is caused by no one giving him reason to be polite, or fair to them.

[kobra_khan69]

ur right that was poorly structured. yes i guess he is prideful sumtimes' date=' but mainly im trying to say all th heroes are amde to seem more than what they were. sorry i structured that :oops: like a total nooblet lmao, still funny.[/quote']

 

No worries everyone does it sometimes. Of course heroes are portrayed as more that what they are their actions grow wit every telling and they become heroes because of the little things they do such as Perrin seizing control of the Two Rivers and pulling everyone together or Mat dancing the Band around to escape but it turned out they went on to win the battle....Things like that grow and men , or women, become heroes because of those tales. That is essentially how a hero is made.

 

 

Went way off topic here I guess.

 

 

I find Rand to be a bit full of himself but he is willingly going to his "death" at Tarmon Gaidon and so I give him leeway. He is having trouble uniting the lands and so he must force them into submission lest their schemes run the chances for the Light at the Last Battle.

 

I don't think Rand has what it takes to lead the forces of the light. Personally I have the same viewpoint as Mordeth,or Padan Fain, did/does to beat the shadow you have to be willing to become as dark as the shadow if not darker. If you cannot make yourself do what it takes to destroy something utterly whether that is just killing a woman or utterly destroying a civilization you have to be willing and able to do it in order to win.

[aes_sedaiwrong]

well he seems bad but he is right for it. we know he succeeds in his task. this si supposed to be the third age, btu we seee writings form the fourth.

[kobra_khan69]

well he seems bad but he is right for it. we know he succeeds in his task. this si supposed to be the third age' date=' btu we seee writings form the fourth.[/quote']

 

Actually I think its the fourth now considering that when the Dragon came he broke all the binds that tied and heralded in a new age.

 

Not sure where I read it but I think it was in the book. If its not the fourth age yet then it will soon be.

[isk]

I really like Rand's duality. despite what he says, he's not as hard as he needs to be, as he's constantly struggling with his prior beliefs and inherited propensities. sometimes they cost him a great deal.

 

high fantasy is great and all, but I get enough of it from other sources. if Rand was completely weak or completely strong then I'd be bored by his chapters. the "wounded hero" has a tragic-poet-samurai appeal, and I dig it.

[kobra_khan69]

I really like Rand's duality. despite what he says' date=' he's not as hard as he needs to be, as he's constantly struggling with his prior beliefs and inherited propensities. sometimes they cost him a great deal.

 

high fantasy is great and all, but I get enough of it from other sources. if Rand was completely weak or completely strong then I'd be bored by his chapters. the "wounded hero" has a tragic-poet-samurai appeal, and I dig it.[/quote']

 

true the fact that Rand isn't yet what he needs t be in order to win does make the story have a sort of appeal if he was as hard as he needed to be from the beginning it would ruin the shaping of his character and he wouldn't be as interesting as he is now.

[Slinx]

Hard to judge someone as weak after going through a bunch of crap:

 

1. Learning you have to fight the Dark One.

2. Going to go insane.

3. Can talk with a dead man.

4. Living with intense physical pain and ignoring it.

5. Starting wars without being involved.

6. Responsible for the breaking of the Aiel.

7. Can't trust allies or friends.

8. Your 'friends' want to control you.

9. Half the world thinks you are evil.

10. Your ta'verenness can cause death.

11. Leaving home abruptly.

12. Your foundation of your former life is shaken.

13. Thousands of deaths on your head.

and so on.

 

If acting arrogant can help him deal with all that and still move on, more power to him.

[Myyrth]

People don't like to put themselves in the position of Rand though. Think of what he has endured, what he's been forced to adapt too. It's more than probably 99% the people on this website would be unable to handle.

 

I at least know that I would have died somewhere in the two rivers on the sword of a Myrdraal!

 

Rand was becoming a very good leader around the time of his trip the Aiel waste and back. Yet with the sickness, the wounds and the stress of his position RJ is showing us that Rand is beginning to break down. Rand knows he's falling apart and is trying to force the world into preparedness as fast as possible. His only hope is that he lives long enough to die at the last battle. He's got a fricking voice in his head!

 

Rand has done an amazing job, and all of his flaws and all of his virtues I love dearly.

[Mistress alDebaw]

I agree.:-) I like Rand a lot. I'm reading his POV in the serious. It gives you a whole new perpective on what Rand is going through. The way Moiraine treats him in TGH really ticks me off. If you remember that he is the tragic hero then what he does seems about right. He reminds me a little of Thomas Covenant.

 

I really like Rand's duality. despite what he says' date=' he's not as hard as he needs to be, as he's constantly struggling with his prior beliefs and inherited propensities. sometimes they cost him a great deal.

 

high fantasy is great and all, but I get enough of it from other sources. if Rand was completely weak or completely strong then I'd be bored by his chapters. the "wounded hero" has a tragic-poet-samurai appeal, and I dig it.[/quote']

[Hannah Banana]

The series needs more Rand. He's like a black hole.. the only way we know he's really there is by seeing his actions reflected on by other characters, and their reactions to his presence.

 

But, really, one or two chapters of Rand per book is not enough. And I think the entourage following him around is more interesting than, say, Mat's or Perrin's. OR ELAYNE'S!

[alienfreak29]

It doesn't have to be as extreme examples. But simply examples of strength to your enemies. And Rand seems awfully reluctant to set examples to his enemies and instead gives off signs of extreme weakness.

I doubt Elaida would have done much more plotting with over 50 sisters either dead or stilled as a result of her actions. She would have to face too much flak on her homefront to even think of dealing with anything else.

Same with nobles who rebel. Colavaere is the best example. He exiles her instead of giving the proper punishment for the crimes of murder and high treason. The best example is again to set a sign of power, he should have just had one of his ashaman, channel a noose to form in the roof as all the assembled nobles observed and hanged Colavaere right there. The present nobles would be scared into obedience by the act of the male one power on top of a newly crowned regent just being disposed of as if she were nothing of a challenge to his power.

Again it doesn't have to be such an extreme example, however the matter is one of setting an example. Something which Rand is too weak to do often.

 

Oh! would that RJ might read this posting and take heed!

 

Rand is an excellent character, tied down and shamed too often for my taste by whining, disgusting Aes Sedai characters...*cough*...Egwene....*cough*...Cadsuane...*cough*...Nynaeve....

 

Yes, yes...Lews Therin Telamon stilled those women at Dumais Wells. Rand should take a lesson and do the same to EVERY Aes Sedai that stands in his way or that tries to "humble him" as though he were a dangerous puppy that could be tamed and put on the White Tower's leash.

 

RJ has made Rand just a little too forgiving, a little too cowed to the Aes Sedai in general, and a little too worried about the opinions of others for my taste.

 

And yes! the Rand chapters WOULD be much more interesting than anything at any time about Elayne and Aviendha. I cannot say how bored the chapters in these last few books concerning these whiny females has made me. Can anyone say..."Skip to the end?"

 

Sadly, or maybe not so sadly, it is because of the way RJ has written Rand's character...much too ready to listen to and abide by, Aes Sedai murmurings, and the WAaaaaaaayyyyyy too long accounts of Elayne and Aviendha and Perrin's constant "How many more days must I tie another knot whilst dying inside because of my intense and everlasting love for Faile which is thwarted at every turn during my search!?" that I find the sections dealing with Mat Cauthon so very refreshing.

 

In fact, I have come to wish that the entire series were more about Mat than anyone else. He's about the only one I can stomach.

[isk]

yeah, I definitely like Rand's chapters and would've liked more of them in KoD. I don't mind Cadsuane's prodding, I'm one of the few who actually likes her. she has her limits and her reasons, and she's also a *radio edit* when it's time to throw down.

 

however!

 

Elayne's chapters don't bother me as much as they used to. I dig em when there's some focus on Birgitte, Dyelin, or Charlz. the intrigue with the Rose Throne interested me as well. I'm somewhat sympathetic to her manner because, well, she's trying to be a queen. she's more of a symbol than a person, so I don't expect her to act down-to-earth. her petulance does get annoying, of course.

 

Perrin is sort of the same way. I like his character fine, but I also really like reading about Tam and the Gaul-Bain-Chiad triangle. same with Mat, only with Noal, Thom, Tuon/Selucia, Aludra, hell pretty much all of his secondary characters. the chapter with Furyk Karede, think it's called "A Cup of Kaf," is one of my favorites in KoD.

 

Egwene's spirit during her imprisonment impressed me. she faced a pretty horrible situation yet was able to turn it around. I'm not sure it's fair to compare her with the way Siuan dealt with her captivity but it still shows a lot of strength and fortitude. plus some of the scenes were hilarious.

 

and holy hell tangent city. wopz!~

[alienfreak29]

Elayne's chapters don't bother me as much as they used to. I dig em when there's some focus on Birgitte, Dyelin, or Charlz. the intrigue with the Rose Throne interested me as well. I'm somewhat sympathetic to her manner because, well, she's trying to be a queen. she's more of a symbol than a person, so I don't expect her to act down-to-earth. her petulance does get annoying, of course.

 

Yeah, I used to like Birgitte too. Back when she was actually a hero of legend. since she became Elayne's warder B*^%H I can't stand her. There's way too much foot tapping, feeling anger down the bond, faces getting flushed, arms getting folded beneath her breasts and just a touch of lesbianism in there for me.

 

Perrin is sort of the same way. I like his character fine, but I also really like reading about Tam and the Gaul-Bain-Chiad triangle. same with Mat, only with Noal, Thom, Tuon/Selucia, Aludra, hell pretty much all of his secondary characters. the chapter with Furyk Karede, think it's called "A Cup of Kaf," is one of my favorites in KoD.

 

Hmph. Perrin used to be cool. Back BEFORE he met Faile. Ever since he met her he's been one huge messy whipped puppy dog perpetually confused by her desire for him to yell at her. Not only this, but the uber repetitious descriptions of Perrin at the close of a Perrin chapter...."He had to do anything and everything in his power to find his heart, his love, his Faile! He must find her! He must!" just completely and utterly don't phase me any longer or cause me to care about him as a person. ok, so we get it already, he's gonna pine away and die if Faile is not re-united with him in body and spirit. *yawn....* Let's move on already.

 

Lets get to the cool stuff...like the Seanchan prophecies about Perrin in Tarmon'Gaidin. (sp?)Let's see him crush that crazy prophet's skull with his blacksmith hammer. And let's not have him agonize over it. Maybe, he could fall into his "wolf" mode and just rip out the man's throat with his teeth. That would make an interesting scene no?

 

 

Egwene's spirit during her imprisonment impressed me. she faced a pretty horrible situation yet was able to turn it around. I'm not sure it's fair to compare her with the way Siuan dealt with her captivity but it still shows a lot of strength and fortitude. plus some of the scenes were hilarious.

 

Hmph again. I would not call anything Egwene al'Vere does or any scenes she is in, hilarious. Of course, I thought it was great that she was getting the snot beat out of her by the Mistress of Novices. But then, I hate Egwene...but not any more than I hate other Aes Sedai. It would not bother me in the least to see them all strapped until they bled, and then all of them stilled to boot. At least, I feel that way of all those "so-called Aes Sedai" of the White Tower.

 

Egwene's pitiful, yet seemingly heroic efforts to lead a rebellion (I am sure RJ will make her victorious in the end...*sigh...so very predictable....)do make one slightly admire her. But then, one remembers her take on Rand...which is the same as all other Aes Sedai witches, and it makes you want to see her head on a spike once more.

 

So she faced a horrible situation? So what? She could leave anytime she wants. The rebels would have come and rescued her. Or she could have visited Elaida or any number of other "sisters" in the dream world and slit their throats and killed them then and there in their sleep. Ruthless perhaps, but it would have been effective and would have ended the White Tower's petty war within itself.

 

No, Egwene should have long ago thrown in her full support behind Rand whom she grew up with. If there is any truth to a prophecy of the Dragon Reborn facing the wrath of the Amyrlin (sp?) then let that wrath be merely like that of a buzzing fly that Rand just happens to swat away. Or if not, then let Rand's anger burn the Amyrlin to ash.

 

Better yet, maybe Rand can get Lews Therin to warp the marble floors and hallways and columns of the White Tower the way he did once before (WAYYYYY back in the prologue of EOTW) and maybe Egwene can end up like Ilyena. (Sp?)

 

Now THAT'S a fitting end to the White Tower and the condescending, "all-knowing", sexist B(*&h's that call themselves Aes Sedai in the Third Age.

[Jellybelly]

yeah, the solution would be for characters you think are weak to kill everyone you do not like. That makes them strong and "cool". We all know how that works out in real life. Why don't you read Goodkind instead of Jordan? If you want types instead of characters, he will probably satisfy you.