Semirhages plan

[Samurai Jin]

I don't think Semirhage really has a plan yet... that whole thing about the madness was just Semirhage being Semirhage.

 

I agree. However no doubt you recall what was said about her being captured in the war of the shadow? Her jailers let her go out of fear.... this is one scary bisnitch...

 

Who else LOVED the way cadsuane replied to her 'I am Semirhage' That was sooo cool

 

Anyway' date=' she may be captured - but she will turn it to her best advantage.[/quote']

 

I completely agree. Just look at wat happend to Asmodean and Mohodgian(the freakin spider). They almost went insane in captivity.

I think that Lews therrin inside Rand will drive him so insane that he blows her to bits.

 

I'd love to read a chapter with Nynaeve slaping the taste out of her and giving her forkroot. Whilst Cadsuane talks her to death making her give out her masters secret plans

[Simple Gleeman]

Elza got her orders originally from either a Forsaken or a higher-up BA. She choose how to interpret those orders. Forsaken is the top of the command and I doubt the DO himself/herself/itself spoke directly to Elza. So' date=' if Semi gives Elza an order, she's gonna follow it,no matter what she thinks. Free will is NOT part of being a DF.[/quote']

 

Wrongo - Verin used compulsion on the whole lot of them.

[rd2000]

Elza got her orders originally from either a Forsaken or a higher-up BA. She choose how to interpret those orders. Forsaken is the top of the command and I doubt the DO himself/herself/itself spoke directly to Elza. So' date=' if Semi gives Elza an order, she's gonna follow it,no matter what she thinks. Free will is NOT part of being a DF.[/quote']

 

Wrongo - Verin used compulsion on the whole lot of them.

 

Ya, I noticed. Someone else pointed that out. It still doesn't mean that Elza would fail to assist in Semi's escape. For some reason, it bugs me to no end that some ppl post only to say someone is wrong, and then don't add anymore to the topic. I want to see everyone's opinions and reasoning, no matter if they are wrong or right.

[Luckers]

I think as long as Elza can rationalize her position to herself (i.e. semi isn't going to die, and its not like her captivity is Elza's fault) i dont think that she will endanger her position with Rand by aiding semi in any way.

[crash]

Semirhage

 

General

Timeline

Strengths and Talents

Relationships with other Characters

Misc. Information

Quotes

 

 

 

General Information

 

Semirhage is one of the Forsaken; one of thirteen of the most powerful Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends who turned to the Shadow. (Reference: BWB Chapter 5) During that Age, she was known as Nemene Damendar Boann; her Talent of Healing obviously gave her enough prestige to allow her the much sought after third name. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6) After it became public that she supported the Shadow the people gave her the name Semirhage. (Reference: TGH Chapter 7) This name means something in the Old Tongue since the names of the Forsaken were given for a reason; Ishamael means Betrayer of Hope, (Reference: TEotW Prologue) while Sammael means Destroyer of Hope, (Reference: TFoH Chapter 44). However, we do not know what Semirhage means though it no doubt reflects her character.

 

We are introduced to Tuon's Soe'feia Anath and multiple clues have lead many people to believe that she is Semirhage in disguise. Anath and Semirhage have the same physical traits of black eyes and being tall, slender and dark skinned. (References: LoC Chapter 6 and WH Chapter 14). Anath seems to show tenderness when punishing Tuon which is convenient because Semirhage is a sadist. Tuon's previous Truth Speaker was killed when she 'fell' down some stairs. Anath was appointed even though someone else had already been trained. (Reference: WH Chapter 14) Both Anath and Semirhage wear unrelieved black, (Reference: WH Chapter 17 and BWB Chapter 6) while Anath's speech doesn't have the noticeable Seanchan drawl. (Reference: WH Chapter 17) There are more hints and so it is commonly believed that Anath is Semirhage in disguise though it has not been proven.

 

Semirhage has dark eyes and skin and is remarkably tall for a woman. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6) She has slender long fingers. (Reference: LoC Prologue) As Anath, who apparently has the same appearance as Semirhage, she is slender, beautiful and has full lips. (Reference: WH Chapter 14) She has short wavy black hair that is not shaved or plaited as some Seanchan have. (Reference: WH Chapter 17) Semirhage does not have the ageless look because she has never held the Oath Rod. (Reference: ACoS Chapter 8)

 

During the Age of Legends, Nemene was a healer of the body, known as a Restorer. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6) However, she was also a sadist and tortured her patients when she Healed them. When the Hall of Servants discovered this, they gave her the ultimatum that either she was stilled or she was bound against torturing her patients. Semirhage joined the Shadow rather than face either fate. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6) She proved to be very useful to the Shadow even though she was not a very good general. She tortured members of the Hall of Servants and made them claim allegiance to the Shadow. She ran a network aimed to discover all traitors to the Shadow. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6)

 

 

 

Condensed Timeline

 

Age of Legends: Semirhage's sadistic side is discovered and the Hall of Servants gives her an ultimatum. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

Age of Legends: Semirhage runs a network to discover and capture traitors and spies amongst the Friends of the Dark. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6)

 

Age of Legends: Semirhage tortures an entire city because she wants to. (Reference: LoC Chapter 2)

 

Age of Legends: Semirhage is bound with the other Forsaken when Lews Therin and his companions seal the Bore. (Reference: TDR Chapter 36)

 

Third Age: Anath is appointed Tuon's Truth Speaker when Neferi dies. (Reference: WH Chapter 14)

 

Third Age: Semirhage sends Trollocs to the Stone to battle Sammael's on the orders of the Dark One. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

Third Age: Semirhage tortures Cabriana Mecandes on the orders of the Dark One. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

Third Age: Anath arrives at Ebou Dar after sailing with Tuon on Victory of Kidron. (Reference: WH Chapter 14)

 

Third Age: Anath goes into seclusion after Tuon disappears. (Reference: CoT Chapter 4)

 

 

 

Strengths and Talents

 

As a Forsaken, Semirhage can wield large amounts of the One Power, (Reference: WH Glossary), though she is not allowed to use the True Power now that Moridin has been named Nae'blis. (Reference: WH Chapter 13) Semirhage is weaker in the One Power that Lanfear who is the strongest of the female Forsaken. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6)

 

Semirhage's main Talent is that of Healing. It is said that she could Heal anything short of death and that she brought hope when everyone else had despaired. During the Age of Legends, she was summoned to far away places to Heal those on the brink of death. She was particularly good at Healing problems to do with the brain. During the War of Power, Semirhage honed her power in Healing and turned attention to using the One Power for torture. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6) Her torture left her victims so changed that not even Graendal could have helped them. Semirhage was able to use the centres of the brain for pain and pleasure in a new form of torture. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

Semirhage is bad at controlling the weather, (Reference: TFoH Chapter 30), but she has the ability to block Gateways. (Reference: TFoH Chapter 32) She has some ability in Tel'aran'rhiod, (Reference: TFoH Chapter 14) and since the damane can't sense the spark in Anath, we can assume that Semirhage can Mask the Glow. (Reference: WH Chapter 14)

 

 

 

Relationships with Other Characters

 

None of the Forsaken trust or like each other and so it is logical to believe that this is true for Semirhage. (Reference: TFoH Chapter 3) Lanfear and Semirhage hate each other and the reason why Semirhage wears black is because Lanfear wore white. (Reference: LoC Prologue) Semirhage wishes that she could torture Lanfear. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6) Semirhage makes Mesaana feel very uneasy, (Reference: LoC Prologue) but she, Semirhage and Demandred have agreed that they will have a loose allegiance until the other Forsaken have been killed. (Reference: WH Chapter 13)

 

Semirhage believes that Tuon is a wilful charge and dislikes having to spend time away from her because she might do something in Semirhage's absence. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6) Anath berates Tuon strongly and some people are shocked that she speaks so harshly to the Daughter of the Nine Moons. (Reference: WH Chapter 18)

 

Semirhage hates Aes Sedai, especially Aes Sedai who served in the Hall of Servants and those Aes Sedai in the current Age. She hated the Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends because they wanted to still her or bind her against torturing her patients. She thought that they acted because they were jealous of her and thought more of her victims than her. She got her revenge when the Councillors of the Hall were captured and she tortured them. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

 

 

Miscellaneous Information

 

It was Semirhage who discovered that thirteen channellers channelling through thirteen Myrddraal who convert any channeller to the Shadow. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6)

 

People who knew that they were going to be handed over to Semirhage often attempted suicide to get away from her. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6)

 

Semirhage likes to sew. (Reference: LoC Prologue)

 

Semirhage taken care in what she does and takes one step at a time. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

Semirhage was one of the first Forsaken to go to Shayol Ghul. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

Some of the other Forsaken do not know where Semirhage is and who she is trying to influence. (Reference: LoC Chapter 23)

 

People in the Two Rivers say that when it rains when the sun is shining, it is Semirhage's tears from her beating by the Dark One. (Reference: TPoD Chapter 22) However, Semirhage is calm and poised at all times and never cries. (Reference: BWB Chapter 6)

 

Semirhage is unable to join many meetings of the Forsaken, presumably because she is surrounded by damane who would detect her channelling. (Reference: WH chapter 13)

 

 

 

Quotes

 

"She had deserved the right to do what she did; she had earned the right. She had been more valuable to the world than all those together who entertained her with their screams. And in jealously and spite the Hall had tries to pull her down"- Semirhage about her sadism. (Reference: LoC Chapter 6)

 

"Semirhage took delight in cruelty, a pure pleasure in giving anguish"- Mesaana about Semirhage. (Reference: LoC Prologue)

 

"Not even Demandred dared suggest to Semirhage's face that she wore black so often because Lanfear wore white"- Mesaana about Semirhage. (Reference: LoC Prologue)

 

"The woman had been almost tender about it, in an odd fashion, though she left her weeping for days"- Tuon about Anath's beating. (Reference: WH Chapter 14)

 

"'Surely you will punish her for this', she drawled angrily, glaring holes through Anath"- Suroth to Tuon about Anath's harsh criticisms. (Reference: WH Chapter 18)

[Luckers]

A very extensive gathering of information.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I had been looking for one of those references about Semirhage. It was said that she was not a very good general, and her experteise came through her fondness for torturing people.

 

So it could be that she simply didn't have the necessary strategy to make her plan to capture Rand work.

[Luckers]

I still think Semirhage's plan was a solid one. She had no idea that ter'angreal existed that could detect an inverted weave, nor one that could break it. She intended to have Rand and his fellows come close enough, lay a weave on all of them that would have left them in too much pain to channel, then leash them and travel away. A simple, yet solid plan. One that should have been essentially foolproof, only Cadsuane came along, broke her weaves and revealed her for who she was. She had no logical reason to expect that, however.

[balefireruinssteaks]

Semirhage wasn't at the battle with the Choeden Kal was she?

 

I don't remember her being there...and if she wasn't then she most likely wasn't aware that the Forsaken there had encountered ter'angreal that could unravel a web, as Cyndane put it.

 

I think that theory works - she just wasn't expecting her weaves to get unraveled.

[Luckers]

She was at the cleansing, just off screen. We don't know who she fought, but RJ has stated that she was there. That being said, she came no where near Alivia, so its possible she didn't connect it or learn of it.

[lou]

actually seimi's plan to capture rand was not that different from the red's to capture him, and they succeeded. semi had what they did not, the male a'dam. it would have been a very good plan if not for the ter'angreal that cads possessed.

why would semi be concerned about being captured? noone in her entire history has been able to hold her.

with this turn of events, this just leaves demandred and graendal to be the last of the forsaken to be killed, captured, recycled. maybe they are the smartest of the bunch.

[Luckers]

Well from Semi's point of view there wasn't even a risk of capture; even had Rand and his buddies grown suspicious the speed with which Semirhage could have laid a pre-woven inverted weave on Rand means that its essentially a non-issue. So i would say it bears more comparison to what Elayne did to the black sisters in KoD.

 

That being said, when Cadsuane broke Semi's disguise, she likely also broke Semi's other inverted weaves. That was why Semirhage's reaction was so off balance.

[Magicana]

actually seimi's plan to capture rand was not that different from the red's to capture him' date=' and they succeeded. semi had what they did not, the male a'dam. it would have been a very good plan if not for the ter'angreal that cads possessed.

why would semi be concerned about being captured? noone in her entire history has been able to hold her.

with this turn of events, this just leaves demandred and graendal to be the last of the forsaken to be killed, captured, recycled. maybe they are the smartest of the bunch.[/quote']

 

Let us not forget Mesaana.

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

Personally I think Semirhage would have a backup plan if her kidnapping went wrong. She strikes me as one of the most intelligent Forsaken, someone who plans ahead. At the very least she is smart enough to come up with a plan after her first failed. We see evidence of this when she starts to make Rand's followers doubt his sanity. She will probably use her substantial knowledge of the human psyche to further erode Rand's followers' faith in him.

I don't think this will be enough for Semi. Intentionally or not, she is in a uniquely advantageous position for someone with her skills. Perhaps it is a very dangerous one, but at this point she has no choice. So what else will she do?

She knows her target - Rand.

She knows her biggest obstacle - Cadsuane (who foolishly challenged Semi to her face)

She has a good idea of the situation between the major players (She aims her fireball at Min, sees Nynaeve rush to heal Rand, hears Cadsuane's challenge, etc.) Just by watching the reactions to her attack she gets the lay of the land.

 

From where she is now, Semi can plant doubt into the minds of Rand's followers (I'm thinking Logain will be easily convinced that Rand is insane). She will probably let Cadsuane have her way, but I doubt the master of torture is so soft that one tough old bat will break her will. She knows how to get into your head, and to her Cadsuane's over-confidence is an open door. I think she will carefully play on Cadsuane's confidence. Perhaps she will discover Cadsuane's notion that pushing Rand will eventually help him, then relate to Rand as a victim of Cadsuane and get into his head through that. She can play off Rand's fear of hurting anyone close to him, or make him feel bad by pointing out the inconsistencies in his ideology. She can get to Min and Nynaeve by elaborating on the effects of Rand's madness. Nynaeve will want to cure it, and maybe Semi will claim to know a way, or maybe she will hit Nynaeve's self esteem by insisting that there is no cure. Min will be worried and want to help him, perhaps undermining Cadsuane's efforts. There are lots of things Semi can do before her escape/assassination/execution.

 

I think Semi is underestimated, and was fully prepared for her capture. She will hasten Rand's madness and weaken the plans of his closest followers and supporters. It's just a guess but I think Semi will be the first Forsaken to have a trial and be executed for crimes against humanity (or whatever they call it in Randland). I think she will go to her death with a smile and will even be able to use her own execution to get under Rand's skin and undermine the support of his followers.

 

She's too cool to panic or break under (to her probably extremely mild) torture.

[Luckers]

Personally I think Semirhage would have a backup plan if her kidnapping went wrong. She strikes me as one of the most intelligent Forsaken, someone who plans ahead. At the very least she is smart enough to come up with a plan after her first failed.

 

I doubt it. Semirhage had no reason to expect that her plan would fail, and had already installed a back up in the presense of the damane. Both failed thanks in large part to Cadsuane and Nynaeve. From the point of view of Semirhage such an thing would have been impossible, i sincerely doubt she has any back up plans... as to planning something post-capture; no doubt she'll attempt to spread disension, but to be honest i think Cadsuane is more than her match.

 

She will probably use her substantial knowledge of the human psyche to further erode Rand's followers' faith in him.

 

Semirhage doesn't have a substantial knowledge of the human psyche. She was a Restorer, she understands the body, knows how to create pain, and as a side effect of that knows how to create fear. Don't get me wrong, i think her a deft mind, but Graendal was the manipulator and the expert on the mind.

 

She knows her target - Rand.

She knows her biggest obstacle - Cadsuane (who foolishly challenged Semi to her face)

She has a good idea of the situation between the major players (She aims her fireball at Min, sees Nynaeve rush to heal Rand, hears Cadsuane's challenge, etc.) Just by watching the reactions to her attack she gets the lay of the land.

 

Cadsuane's challange is not so foolish concidering Cadsuane can back it up. Additionally she aims a fireball at Rand not Min.

 

Frankly, whilst i strongly emphasize Semirhages strength, i think you udnerestimate that of those that hold her.

[Nerevar]

Also, why do you think Cadsuane is going to allow Semi to speak to everyone? I think the only time she will be ungagged is when Cadsuane and/or Rand is present, and knowing Cadsuane's love of spanking people for speaking out of turn she will not allow Semi to address anyone she doesn't want to be addressed.

 

I guess if Semi was in more of a Moggy position, being able to walk around etc she would be more free to influence the main players.

 

I think either Slayer is going to come kill her off as he is the only non-chaneller who will be able to reach her and the one with the ability to kill her guards. Or theres going to be a battle to rescue her by BA plus Demmy - maybe with Mesaana meant to come but shes tied down in the WT. Though the second choice is a bit more of a stretch.

[lt;(^-^)gt;]

She drove people to suicide simply by talking to them. That is pretty impressive, indicative of someone who understand how the mind works. Maybe not as good as Graendal but good enough to make someone commit suicide.

 

I was sure the fireball was aimed at Min, looks like its time for a re-read...Does Rand push Min out of the way or something?

 

Yes, Cadsuane will be overbearing and control who Semi talks to, but I'm confident that the major characters in the area will be in on the questioning. Why wouldn't they be? It would be lame if RJ hides Cadsuane's methods like he did with Ispan.

 

Cadsuane can back up her challenge, but she can't go nearly as far a Semi has. I doubt she can think of anything that Semi hasn't already done countless times. She's out of her league when it comes to breaking someone.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Semi's been down this road, both as a captive and a torturer. She knows her stuff, and has a strong, confident, evil mind. Everything she says will be designed to beat her captors. She will figure them out and even if she doesn't survive, she'll do more harm than good.

 

Battle of Wills - Semi vs. Cadsuane. I say Semi wins even with the disadvantage of being captive. Unless Cadsuane annoys her into submission (she's already done it to me).

 

Luckers, I like how you use "whilst". That's an awesome word.

[Guest Cadsuane]

Well, I feel like it's kind of unrealistic to assume that because Semi has caused other people so much pain means that she is somehow immune to feeling it herself, or perhaps enjoys it such that it is no longer torture. Mentally sure, she is stronger than most of the people she has tortured, but that doesn't make her immune to physical pain. Even Siuan broke and told things she truly didn't want to tell when she was deposed and tortured, and Siuan is one of the strongest wills we've seen in the books. Semi will most likely be able to hold some things back, as Siuan was, but I think Cadsuane is enough match to break her down a fair way. Caddy is far tougher and more experienced than Elaida, so it stands to reason she would be able to do more/better than Elaida did to Siuan.

 

 

That said, I haven't reached KoD on my re-read, so my take on Semi is a bit fuzzy. :)

[cloglord]

As I recall it, the fireball was thrown at Rand, and he thought to himself that he couldn't doge out of its way because he knew Min was behind him. I didn't go look it up though.

[Magicana]

As I recall it, the fireball was thrown at Rand, and he thought to himself that he couldn't doge out of its way because he knew Min was behind him.  I didn't go look it up though.

 

Thats exactly what happened. He couldn't stop the fireball because of Lews Therin trying to get the source, as well. Or at least that is what I remember happening.

[GrandpaG]

Is Semi immune to balefire?

 

I know Moraine told Rand to be good and not use it, but this is one of the forsaken, for crying out loud!  At first I thought send her to the guillitien (sp ?)...cut her head off.  But then, she'd just get a new body and be back in the picture.  Better off like Rahvin...GONE!!!  Play with a pet rattle snake long enough and you'll get bit (like Egwene did with Mogy...should have balefired her when they had the chance).  And all of this is coming from a guy who tries to maintain a non-violent attitude (me)!!!

 

BALE...FIRE!!! BALE...FIRE!!!  BALE...FIRE!!!

[Majsju]

Is Semi immune to balefire?

 

I know Moraine told Rand to be good and not use it, but this is one of the forsaken, for crying out loud!  At first I thought send her to the guillitien (sp ?)...cut her head off.  But then, she'd just get a new body and be back in the picture.  Better off like Rahvin...GONE!!!  Play with a pet rattle snake long enough and you'll get bit (like Egwene did with Mogy...should have balefired her when they had the chance).  And all of this is coming from a guy who tries to maintain a non-violent attitude (me)!!!

 

BALE...FIRE!!! BALE...FIRE!!!  BALE...FIRE!!!

 

AQ corpse rarely answers any questions...(and if it did, I know I'd be running...g*)

[The Lost One]

I think Semi is up to somethimg.  She took her own capture way to casually.  She either has a backup plan or knows something that the others don't that will work to her advantage. 

 

However, that being said, I don't think she took (or takes) into account Cadsuane - I think she underestimates her. 

 

 

[lou]

off track for a moment.....i just noticed that you get how many post you have made right under the user name. does this frighten anyone else but me?

[RobertAlexWillis]

um ... no.