Semirhages plan

[Dionysus]

Whether you believe Semirhage's plan was to be captured or not, she is still a prisoner with Rand and assuredly has either a backup plan or continuation of the main plan with her captivity.

 

Obviously part of it is to bring up doubts about Rands sanity within his inner circle, as she starts planting the seeds immediately after her capture.

 

I was thinking that perhaps there will be something more as well.

 

The two biggest rivals for Semirhage, and for that case Demandred and Mesaana as well, are Rand and Moridin. They all want to be Nae'Blis, and with those two around they don't have much of a chance. I think that Semirhage will somehow give Rand information or somesuch that will bring him into battle against Moridin. Maybe something with the Seanchan/Black Tower/White Tower battle.

[Luckers]

I don't think Semirhage really has a plan yet... that whole thing about the madness was just Semirhage being Semirhage.

[Dark Justice]

It was probably, as you say, just Semi, being Semi.

But I allso hav problems seing that she would fall in her own trap like that, even how unaware she was about the different terangreal being involved. She is basically not that stupid. So I can easilly understand the point here, about turning him against Moridin aswell..

 

Also, if it was not her intention to get captured, we all know that she will adapt, adopt and improve (motto of the romans, according to Monty Python..) everything, to try to get an advantadge out of it anyway.

 

And Semi being Semi, its not easy to predict anything about it at this moment.

[Teslan]

I don't think Semirhage really has a plan yet... that whole thing about the madness was just Semirhage being Semirhage.

 

I agree. However no doubt you recall what was said about her being captured in the war of the shadow? Her jailers let her go out of fear.... this is one scary bisnitch...

 

Who else LOVED the way cadsuane replied to her 'I am Semirhage' That was sooo cool

 

Anyway, she may be captured - but she will turn it to her best advantage.

[rd2000]

I think that Nynaeve's stubborness and Cadsuane's.....superior intellect....lol, will overwhelm Semi. Nynaeve will not be the least bit afraid or intimidated by Semi, Cadsuane will outsmart her. They do have spare A'dam now, one must surely have Semi's name on it.

 

The BA Aes Sedai that is in Rand's party could throw a monkeywrench into all of this though.

[Ilyena]

definatly agree awith the BA aspect, they really coukld wreck whatever plans they have for Semi, but I think that's the point.

I mean, it free's Semi up for the Last Battle, without having to send one of the other forsaken.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Elza is unlikely to free her.

 

She has it in her twisted little head that Rand must make it to the Last Battle and be defeated there. Unless Elza can somehow be convinced that freeing Semi won't, in any way, compromise Rand's chances of making it to TG to die for the victory of the DO, she just won't do it.

[Ilyena]

Well that still leaves Elza's warder, since he's a darkfriend and doesn't feel the same way about Rand as her.

[rd2000]

Elza got her orders originally from either a Forsaken or a higher-up BA. She choose how to interpret those orders. Forsaken is the top of the command and I doubt the DO himself/herself/itself spoke directly to Elza. So, if Semi gives Elza an order, she's gonna follow it,no matter what she thinks. Free will is NOT part of being a DF.

[Tylins Toy]

In reply to Semi's capture, I would hope that she would not be that stupid to be captured so easily. I know that she put up a good fight, but if I were to fight any battle against a prophesized Dragon, then I would make sure I have either winning numbers or circumstances.

 

In my opinion, I felt that Jordan got rid of her from the plot, so that the forsaken can all be accounted for at the end. I felt that it was his way of rushing to get to the final book and not have to include her. She will have parts in the final book, but I see her going down to an assassination or a failed escape attempt. Quick story that way.

[Teslan]

In my opinion, I felt that Jordan got rid of her from the plot, so that the forsaken can all be accounted for at the end. I felt that it was his way of rushing to get to the final book and not have to include her. She will have parts in the final book, but I see her going down to an assassination or a failed escape attempt. Quick story that way.

 

I agree - it will be a mamouth project to wrap this up in one... I hope he doesn't rush it and make it rubbish

[Bob T Dwarf]

Elza got her orders originally from either a Forsaken or a higher-up BA. She choose how to interpret those orders. Forsaken is the top of the command and I doubt the DO himself/herself/itself spoke directly to Elza. So' date=' if Semi gives Elza an order, she's gonna follow it,no matter what she thinks. Free will is NOT part of being a DF.[/quote']

 

It's not a matter of free will. She has sworn allegiance to Rand until after TG. That oath is as binding on her as it is on anyone else. She cannot take any action that she could perceive as endangering him until he gets to the Pit of Doom.

[rd2000]

Elza is BA, oaths are not binding on them like regular Aes Sedai.

 

So your saying that Elza will ignore commands from Semi to set her free? Semi is FORSAKEN! Whoever gave Elza the order to make sure Rand survives to TG could not outrank Semi. Time and again we have been shown the total command that Forsaken have over ALL darkfriends. I repeat myself again, FREE WILL IS NOT AN OPTION.

[Luckers]

Elza was compelled by Verin into her current fervour... there was no command by some Forsaken or anything. This both means that Elza will be less inclined personally to try and free Semirhage, doubtlessly she'll rationalize it in the same half made way she's been reationalizing everything since she was compelled. It may also mean that Semirhage may recognize whats happening to her. She thinks to herself at one stage about how she could break even one of Graendals compulsions, whereas what she does is unbreakable--though given constrictions in Semirhages freedom i doubt she will have enough access to Elza to accomplish that. Finally though, i dont see Semi being left were even a BA could free her. Cadsuane is too wily for that.

 

As for her getting captured... its been stated many times that ter'angreal of Cadsuane and Nynaeves type was made during the breaking of the world. There would be no reason for Semirhage to expect it. Consider Cyndanes reaction to those ter'angreal in Winters Heart. Shock and surprise. She had time to figure out what they are, and so she excaped, but Semirhage didn't.

 

Concider Semirhages plan without the interference of the Ter'angreal. She would have been able to get close to the kids without raising suspicion--likely she would have invited them inside were the a'dam and male a'dam were. She could very likely have had some nasty inverted weave prepared, one that would have left them in so much pain they wouldn't be able to channel or even think--wham bam thank you ma'am. They all would have been leashed and 'travelled' away before anyone had time to think. A simplistic plan, but one that theoretically hould have worked. She had no reason to forsee them being able to detect an inverted weave, or Cadsuane being able to break it. Keep in mind too that people from the Age of Legends would not have been able to do any of that, and we all know to the Forsaken if AOL's hadn't been able to do it, then the half trained children of modern times certainly wouldn't be able to, just look at the level of surprise she felt when she was thinking of the warder bond in an earlier book... to her, such a thing was like a dog starting to talk... no, i think that Semirhages plan was not foolish.

[Ilyena]

I definatley agree with Luckers. Semi's plan wasn't as stupid as it seemed, but as we all know, she is one of the more...gruesome...forsaken going, and she does have the whole "I could torcher you right now if I really wanted" thing going.

I do thing that before the Last Battle she'll have escaped, no way is Jordan Ruining such a sweet character as Semi by having her killed in prison, or killed escaping. I think he's setting it up so the forsaken gain more knowledge with her capture.

[Luckers]

Yeah Semi's also had a bluntness to her methodology throughout the whole series. She tortures rather then manipulates, she killed the entire seanchan royal family rather then like, insiting rebllion or something. Her plans are always simple, blunt and effective.

 

As for her escaping... what i would do with her is bond her like the Aes Sedai were bonded and control her in that manner. But since that seems unlikely, i dont doubt that she will escape, or somehow effect the main story.

[evelynne_r]

I have to say I feel this is a particularly clever piece of writing by Jordan.

 

We could have had Semi be obviously prepared, had a massive all-out battle, and have the good guys just overpowering her by a whisker, but that wouldn't have caused nearly as much discussion.

 

The current scenario raises so many questions; was she simply taken unawares, did she plan this the whole time, was she stitched up by another Forsaken?

 

Sparking off discussion is after all part of a good story. After all, would we have been as intrigued if Asmo had said 'Not you, (Moridin/Moraine/AN Other)' before disappearing off in smoke?

[rd2000]

I feel that Semi pretty much WAY undercalculated how much force would be brought by Rand. Logain is almost as strong as Rand, and Cadsuane/Nynaeve plus their ter'angreals would have been much more than a match for semi alone. Throw in the other ashaman and it looks like Semi brought a knife to a gunfight.

[SinisterDeath]

More like a spoon to a nuclear war. :P

[Luckers]

Even with their strength semi would have prevailed had she not been unmasked. All she would have needed to do was get close enough to unleash some dibilitating weave and it would have been over... except for the ter'angreals, they were what she had no way of predicting, and were the reason she failed.

[Siswaiaman]

The asha'man were a beastly weapon, seeing as she couldn't see their effects...

I doubt such a weave could have been formed that easily or quickly...

 

Heh heh heh a new spin on an old saying.

Those who live by the sword... die by those who live by the gun.

[Luckers]

She wouldn't have had to have formed it, she could have prewove it, and inverted it.

[Siswaiaman]

what could knock out that many powerful channelers at once? And for her to do it like that, it would have to be a trap or ward, i dont think you can weave inverted flows, they have to be tied first. The point being traps have to be reset after being sprung, couldn't get everyone.

[Luckers]

The way inversion works is that you weave it, then invert it. You can either tie it off or maintain in it yourself.

 

An example is Elayne, when she went to fight the Black Ajah in KoD, wove a shield, inverted it, then carries it along with her like a knife.

 

Alternatively the Forsaken do know of a way to weave and hide the weave whilst weavings, its called reversing a weave and Cyndane does it during the cleansing. You see the difference? Inversion is making a weave, then hiding it after its made, reversing is hiding it during the process of it being made.

 

There is a distinct advantage to inversion, because reversing can be detected... even hiding the ability to channel does hide the feeling that soemone is actually channeling. (keep in mind the difference between channeling, and holding a weave. The construction of a weave is what makes the feeling, and other channelers can detect it, again, refrencing Cyndanes thoughts, and also Verins when Graendal starts channeling a reversed weave at her at the cleansing). So yes, i think Semirhage definately had a prepared inverted weave ready, though its not inconcievable that she might have been planning to reverse her attacks on the spot.

 

That is what i think Semirhage had in mind, only her weave was more then likely one meant to cause pain... so much pain you could never even think of channeling. Either one large blanket weave for all, or perhaps she divided her flows... theoretically she could divide her flows six ways, given her strength and skill, but more likely she intended to leave two--probably the women--to the damane.

 

So why didn't she use it when she was uncovered? Well, either she planned to reverse it on the spot, or far more likely, it too was broken by Cads ter'angreal. We know she has one that breaks prepared weaves as she used it on Semirhages disguise... to me, it seems likely that whatever other nasty weaves she had prepared were also shattered in that moment, and the best she could do in her shock was a fireball.

[nnokwoodeye]

Regardless of whether she allowed herself to be captured or not (and I think she hadn't) the conversations between her and Cadsuane should be entertaining. I don't think that semi realize that she don't have her reputation anymore. The fact that she is the most sadistic person that ever lived was forgotten 3000 years ago, and even if there are legends they are probably considered very exaggerated (especially to someone like Cadsuane). Semi is still feared but no more then the other forsaken and she doesn't used to it so that put her in a slight disadvantage