fantasy football?

[seph]

Charles is top 5 of current.

Could give him top 3

But he needs a few 1800 2000 yard seasons.

This year is ganna be a good year for the chiefs

[Yates]

AP, Shady, and Murray are all unquestionably above Charles. Beast Mode as well. Probably Foster too. And if you are basing this on CAREER numbers for active players? LT is higher.

[seph]

AP, Shady, and Murray are all unquestionably above Charles. Beast Mode as well. Probably Foster too. And if you are basing this on CAREER numbers for active players? LT is higher.

ap and shady no doubt.

Yates wasn't demarco's first good year last year?

I don't think you can place someone above charles who can hardly make it through a full year uninjured.

We will see this year, as he won't have that offensive line to run behind. then I will rank him above or below charles.

 

The thing about charles is, whether he is running or catching the ball, he is a playmaker.

[Clovdyx]

AP, Shady, and Murray are all unquestionably above Charles. Beast Mode as well. Probably Foster too. And if you are basing this on CAREER numbers for active players? LT is higher.

 

I could argue that NONE of them are above Charles.  I'm not going to, because I don't believe that, but there's not a chance in hell I put Murrary or Foster over Charles.  Adrian Peterson is a better pure runner, but he's weak in the pass game, which is something Charles excels at - and I'm not going to give AP the nod when he hasn't played in a year.  

 

For me, the best RB right now comes down to Charles or Shady.  I want to give Shady the nod, but it's hard to ignore the fact Charles has the highest YPC in league history, despite playing on one of the least talented offenses I've ever seen.  The guy had 14 TDs last year, while the entire receiving corps had zero.  Zero.  Zero.

 

Saying he's an all-time candidate though?  I understand why some people might lean that way, but he's started five seasons...let's slow our role.  

 

Also, I saw the discussion in another thread...., and the lack of Marshall Faulk disturbs me.  

[RandA lThor]

 

Actually like the Chiefs, huge fan of Jamaal Charles (think he's the best RB ever, or at least in the dicussion, but thats for another time)...

I think this is a joke??? Like - he may be in the conversation for greatest CHIEFS RB [not named Marcus Allen] ever???

 

Best YPC for a running back in the history of the NFL, he's never had a good offensive line to run behind, nor a good QB to avoid stacked boxes, fast runner with good vision, can make defenders miss and can truck, versatile receiving back and adept blocker.  He's pretty much the prototypical all around back, that sometimes just doesn't get enough respect because he doesn't have the best highlight videos (unlike Lynch), has a stupid coach that doesn't use him all the time (unlike AD or McCoy who were heavily relied on).

 

Charles is top 5 of current.

Could give him top 3

But he needs a few 1800 2000 yard seasons.

This year is ganna be a good year for the chiefs

I think you're underselling him.  We don't know where AD is right now, after a year off.  McCoy had a pretty bad year, and we saw that once he doesn't have a solid O-line, he spends too much time dancing around in the backfield and gets a lot more TFLs.  Murray had the benefit of running behind the best O-line (and will continue to run behind a great O-line in Philly).  Lynch, while good, has the read option with Russell, iirc this allowed him to run through the least stacked boxes, or at least bottom 5, of any team in the NFL.  Jamaal Charles has none of these things, literally nothing is helping him out in Kansas City.  Bad O-line, mediocre QB, horrible receivers.  But with the addition of Maclin and some better OL talent, yeah I think this year will be better for the Chiefs.

 

AP, Shady, and Murray are all unquestionably above Charles. Beast Mode as well. Probably Foster too. And if you are basing this on CAREER numbers for active players? LT is higher.

Shady and Murray are definitely below Charles.  Murray just had a career year last year, both he and Charles were being criminally underused before, yet Charles still put up better numbers.  Before that though, Murray was a top 10 back, not even top 5.  Shady just had a horrible year, and we'll see how he does with a worse O-line in Buffalo.  Before that he had a much better O-line where his patience/over patience in the backfield would reward him.  AP obviously is amazing, but after one year out, we don't know how he'll be.  Lynch is a great back, I'd put Charles above him, but that's just my opinion. Foster is injured way too often, but he's a beast when healthy. LT is obviously one of the all-time greats, but once again, obviously Charles isn't up there in career numbers because for whatever reason, he's always underused by Reid and other coaching staff.  If he had the same number of touches as LT, he could've potentially done more imo.

 

 

AP, Shady, and Murray are all unquestionably above Charles. Beast Mode as well. Probably Foster too. And if you are basing this on CAREER numbers for active players? LT is higher.

ap and shady no doubt.

Yates wasn't demarco's first good year last year?

I don't think you can place someone above charles who can hardly make it through a full year uninjured.

We will see this year, as he won't have that offensive line to run behind. then I will rank him above or below charles.

 

The thing about charles is, whether he is running or catching the ball, he is a playmaker.

 

Shady no doubt?  You guys are definitely higher on him than I am, last year proved that Shady wasn't the best back in the NFL, he's not even top 5.  AD, Charles, Bell (who none of you guys mentioned...), Lynch, Murray, Forte, and Foster should all be ahead of him.  And yeah, you're right he is a playmaker.  All of these guys besides AD had other serious offensive playmakers to help them out.  Bell has Brown and Ben.  Lynch has Wilson. Murray has Romo and Dez. Forte had Marshall and Jeffery.  Foster had AJ80 and now Hopkins.  Charles and AD haven't had that luxury of having actual playmakers on the offense, yet they continue to dominate year after year.

 

 

AP, Shady, and Murray are all unquestionably above Charles. Beast Mode as well. Probably Foster too. And if you are basing this on CAREER numbers for active players? LT is higher.

 

I could argue that NONE of them are above Charles.  I'm not going to, because I don't believe that, but there's not a chance in hell I put Murrary or Foster over Charles.  Adrian Peterson is a better pure runner, but he's weak in the pass game, which is something Charles excels at - and I'm not going to give AP the nod when he hasn't played in a year.  

 

For me, the best RB right now comes down to Charles or Shady.  I want to give Shady the nod, but it's hard to ignore the fact Charles has the highest YPC in league history, despite playing on one of the least talented offenses I've ever seen.  The guy had 14 TDs last year, while the entire receiving corps had zero.  Zero.  Zero.

 

Saying he's an all-time candidate though?  I understand why some people might lean that way, but he's started five seasons...let's slow our role.  

 

Also, I saw the discussion in another thread...., and the lack of Marshall Faulk disturbs me.  

 

Ok I agree with a lot in here actually (except the Shady love... I still don't get that) and yeah I get the point that he still hasn't played for as long as we could hope for a GOAT discussion.  Let me rephrase then, Charles is on a trajectory that I see viably ending in him becoming the GOAT RB.

[Clovdyx]

I'll just say it - LeSean McCoy has the second best moves in NFL history.

[RandA lThor]

I'll just say it - LeSean McCoy has the second best moves in NFL history.

His cuts are insane... but there's more to being a complete back.  Blocking, trucking ability, the correct amount of patience, all things that he could improve upon imo.

[Clovdyx]

I would by lying if I said I know (or cared, really) about how good of a blocker he is.  Trucking is a weak spot, but nobody knocks Earl Campbell for not having able to cut.  His patience is fine IMO.

[Yates]

His cuts are insane... but there's more to being a complete back.  Blocking, trucking ability, the correct amount of patience, all things that he could improve upon imo.

Which of these abilities did Jim Brown lack? Walter Payton? Barry Sanders? Eric Dickerson? Emmitt Smith? OJ? Tony Dorsett? Marcus Allen? Roger Craig? Thurman Thomas? Ladanian Tomlinson? Marshall Faulk? Terrell Davis? Priest Holmes, even?

 

Also, if we are talking about THIS YEAR? Le'veon Bell and Eddie Lacy are both probably going to put up better numbers than Charles.

[Yates]

Let me rephrase then, Charles is on a trajectory that I see viably ending in him becoming the GOAT RB.

Nope.

 

He's got what? 7 seasons under his belt? How many times has he led the league in rushing? Yards from scrimmage? How about rushing yards per game? Or how about touches?

 

Let's talk about Jim Brown for a second. Now granted, this is a different league from the one he played in. However, you can only compare players to their peers in their era. Especially since Jim Brown had fewer games to compile his insane stats.

 

Jim Brown played 9 seasons. Just 2 more than Charles. In those 9 seasons? Jim Brown lead the league in rushing EIGHT TIMES. Jim Brown lead the league in rushing eight times while leading the league in touches 7 times. That means the league knew he was going to get the ball and still couldn't do anything about it. He lead the league in yards from scrimmage 6 times and finished 2nd twice. He touched the ball 248 times in 1960 [leading the league] and averaged 7.1 YARDS PER TOUCH. Just think about that for a minute. On a side note - he obviously made the Pro Bowl every single year of his professional career. He also twice ran for 1500+ yards in addition to his 1863 yard season. Oh. And he did all this with 12 and 14 game seasons.

 

Don't get me wrong. This is not my way of saying Jamaal Charles is a scrub or something. I'm just trying to put your statement into perspective. There is no world where Jamaal Charles is ever going to be "in the conversation" for greatest RB of all time when Jim Brown is sitting there OWNING everyone. And that's without getting into Sweetness or Barry.

[Zander?]

Barry Sanders GOAT imo

[Yates]

Barry Sanders GOAT imo

Nope. It is a FACT that he is not. But he *IS* at least in the conversation.

[RandA lThor]

Ok, I can admit that I don't know enough about previous RBs to effectively argue for Charles as GOAT.  But right now, of all the RBs playing, he's the greatest.  Yes, that includes Peterson and McCoy.

[Clovdyx]

Yeah Yates, and Don Hutson is better than Randy Moss.

[WWWwombat]

Charles is the most talented active RB imo.  Whether or not he puts up the best numbers this year will have to do with a lot of things outside of his control.  Way too early to even put him in the discussion for GOAT imo, but Rand is a relative youngin' IIRC, so understandable.

[RandA lThor]

Charles is the most talented active RB imo.  Whether or not he puts up the best numbers this year will have to do with a lot of things outside of his control.  Way too early to even put him in the discussion for GOAT imo, but Rand is a relative youngin' IIRC, so understandable.

Yeah haha, not even an adult yet. <18 and going into college ;( that feeling when you're going to have to fax official documents to your parents...

[Yates]

Yeah Yates, and Don Hutson is better than Randy Moss.

Not sure the point of this? Jerry Rice is the greatest WR in history. Jim Brown is the greatest RB. These aren't even arguments. Eye test with stats and records to back them up.

 

If you want to argue about GOAT, this discussion has to go to QB. At least there you don't have an obvious #1 that can not be statistically proven.

[RandA lThor]

 

Yeah Yates, and Don Hutson is better than Randy Moss.

Not sure the point of this? Jerry Rice is the greatest WR in history. Jim Brown is the greatest RB. These aren't even arguments. Eye test with stats and records to back them up.

 

If you want to argue about GOAT, this discussion has to go to QB. At least there you don't have an obvious #1 that can not be statistically proven.

 

Goat QB - Montana/Marino/Manning/Brady/Unitas

 

Goat RB - already had it lol

 

Goat WR - Jerry Rice

 

Goat TE - Gonzalez

 

Goat O-line: Allen/Munoz

 

Goat D-line/edge rusher: LT

 

Goat LB: lewis ( I really would have wanted to say Willis if he finished his career ;( )

 

Goat DB: Lott

 

Goat Punter: Guy

 

Goat kicker: Viniateri

 

Goat returner: Hester

[Turin Turambar]

Jim Brown was THE MAN. He dominated in his time. Would he have fared the same now? maybe not but that is pretty much irrelevant. 

 

There are only 3 others that really belong on the step just below him. OJ, Sweetness and Barry. Bo might have got there if his body didn't break down. Charles?? He is good, but he has a ways to go to get in that group.

 

Rice was great, but some of that was a perfect storm of His talent, Montana being so clutch, Walsh coming up with the right scheme at the time the NFL really started to convert to a passing league. 

 

Lott was a warrior at safety but he was only average to slightly above in coverage( this is coming from a bigtime USC fan), Deion was the best cover corner tho. 

[Clovdyx]

QB: Montana/Brady
RB: Faulk

WR: Rice, with Moss second.

TE: Gonzo

OL: Munoz/Hannah/Ogden

DL: Reggie White?  (Watt will not only take this in 3-4 years IF HE MAINTAINS HIS DOMINATION...which is almost a certainty to NOT happen)

LB: Ray (I'm going to go against the grain and say Derrick Thomas, not LT, greatest OLB edge rusher)

Safety: Probably Lott

Corner: Champ, and I will fight anybody who disagrees.

 

Having not gotten into football until after 2000, I never saw a lot of these guys in their prime.  But I truly believe that Champ Bailey is the best football player (regardless of position, and without factoring positional value in) that I've ever seen.

[Turin Turambar]

I would love to play but I'm not going to be able to as I'm on holiday in august and I would be a absent owner. /unless you really need a doormat to round out the league. 

 

Then I would be the south northeast barber college irregulars. We play LSU every year for cash to keep the university open. LOL

[Clovdyx]

 

Yeah Yates, and Don Hutson is better than Randy Moss.

Not sure the point of this? Jerry Rice is the greatest WR in history. Jim Brown is the greatest RB. These aren't even arguments. Eye test with stats and records to back them up.

 

If you want to argue about GOAT, this discussion has to go to QB. At least there you don't have an obvious #1 that can not be statistically proven.

 

 

It was about competition.  Brown was by far the best football player in the league during his time, and him leading every category while he was active is proof of that.  Hutson did the same thing at receiver 20 years prior, but few would put him over Rice.

[WWWwombat]

Deion was pretty nuts though.  If Bo Jackson had been a full-time football player, that could have been interesting.

[Clovdyx]

From what I've gathered - again, this is without a fair eye test of Sanders - Champ was Deion if Deion could hit.

[Yates]

Having not gotten into football until after 2000, I never saw a lot of these guys in their prime.  But I truly believe that Champ Bailey is the best football player (regardless of position, and without factoring positional value in) that I've ever seen.

You *just missed* Rod Woodson in his prime. Or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Easily the best DB of my lifetime. And yes, that includes Bailey, Prime Time, and Revis.