the Tower Split; what would you choose

[BFG]

Where would you go? Would you stay with the Tower, the Last Battle is coming and the Tower needs to be whole, Salidar since Elaida is never going to be able to work with the Dragon Reborn, or would you join Cadsuane, the Dragon Reborn is the most important person at the moment...?

[jack of shadows]

it's elaida,not elaina,and if you join the dragon reborn you are not joining cadsuane,

rand's aes sedai (cadsuane included) worked for him,not the other way around.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I stay in the tower bc I don't like yo travel and the tower needs someone to hold down the Fort and fight the battle against autocorrect and pedantry. [eyeroll]

 

I would not join cadsuane bc she is too close to that channeling taveren madman for my comfort.

 

I would stay away from salidar and the upstarts trying to dumb the tower down and hanging around with soldiers and all.

[Azrayne]

Putting aside biases as a reader (ie. that the Aes Sedai as an institution have decayed beyond redemption and the White Tower should be disbanded and replaced) and trying to look at it from their perspective, I think the best decision would be to travel the world doing various good deeds (fighting the shadow for a green, healing for a yellow, collecting knowledge for a brown etc) while keeping an eye on world events then return when things stabilize and be all 'sup' to whomever came out on top.

[Aniere]

I would choose Salidar because, while the White Tower does need to be whole, supporting a bad monarch will only bring bad luck when the Last Battle really does come. We cannot be whole without ALL of our sisters, even if the Blue Ajah made mistakes.

[BFG]

it's elaida,not elaina,and if you join the dragon reborn you are not joining cadsuane,

rand's aes sedai (cadsuane included) worked for him,not the other way around.

Lol, I know it's Elaida I don't always catch my computers auto-correct.

 

There are 4 groups/individual Aes Sedai around Rand. The Tower and Salidar group who are loyal to Rand because of ta'veran. They weren't really the group I was talking about since they chose between the Tower and Salidar. Cadsuane swore to do 'what's best for Rand', although that's always going to be what's best for Rand in her opinion. Nynaeve chose to join Rand as an individual. The remaining Aes Sedai are there because of Cadsuane, and it was this group I meant. The story already has a Cadsuane and a Nynaeve :)

[mb]

Aes Sedia could have had also these choices at the time of the Tower split::

-go her own way

-watch the other factions of Aes Sedia

-seek entrance into some other channeling group

-retire

and perhaps also other options than these.

Black Ajah could have had 1 more choice:  Follow some other Forsaken than the ones in the Aes Sedia factions.

also, a number of the options could overlap.

 

 

For me, my choice would not have been Elaida; nor Black Ajah.

edit::  Elaida because she seemed to be a tyrant.  Black Ajah because they generally seem to be against the Light.

[BFG]

I stay in the tower bc I don't like yo travel and the tower needs someone to hold down the Fort and fight the battle against autocorrect and pedantry. [eyeroll]

 

I would not join cadsuane bc she is too close to that channeling taveren madman for my comfort.

 

I would stay away from salidar and the upstarts trying to dumb the tower down and hanging around with soldiers and all.

 

Lol, I find it interesting that my favourite 'normal' Aes Sedai (by which I mean Aes Sedai that were good, maybe brilliant but not prodigies ever) all stayed in the Tower :)

 

Putting aside biases as a reader (ie. that the Aes Sedai as an institution have decayed beyond redemption and the White Tower should be disbanded and replaced) and trying to look at it from their perspective, I think the best decision would be to travel the world doing various good deeds (fighting the shadow for a green, healing for a yellow, collecting knowledge for a brown etc) while keeping an eye on world events then return when things stabilize and be all 'sup' to whomever came out on top.

 

And what if that had been crazy Elaida?

 

I would choose Salidar because, while the White Tower does need to be whole, supporting a bad monarch will only bring bad luck when the Last Battle really does come. We cannot be whole without ALL of our sisters, even if the Blue Ajah made mistakes.

I think I agree with this, but I'm curious by what you mean by the Blue Ajah mistakes?

[BFG]

Aes Sedia could have had also these choices at the time of the Tower split::

-go her own way

-watch the other factions of Aes Sedia

-seek entrance into some other channeling group

-retire

and perhaps also other options than these.

Black Ajah could have had 1 more choice:  Follow some other Forsaken than the ones in the Aes Sedia factions.

also, a number of the options could overlap.

 

 

For me, my choice would not have been Elaida; nor Black Ajah.

Interesting choices, I get the impression that the majority of the Aes Sedai share a herd mentality to an extent, or maybe they've become to institutionalised. I don't think there are many for whom that's a real option. At the same time I think most will have Moiraines reaction, the Tower is their home, and fir most, has been for a really long time, not easy to walk away from.

 

Same for seeking entrance to another group, especially since the majority see them as inferior...

 

I'll add it to the poll though, thanks

[Niniel]

I would probably have been concentrated on reading some interesting old book and missed all the fighting. Once I found out what happened I would return to my book. Lol

[BFG]

I would probably have been concentrated on reading some interesting old book and missed all the fighting. Once I found out what happened I would return to my book. Lol

[jack of shadows]

@bfg,

"the remaining aes sedai are there because of cadsuane. it was this group i meant."

if that's the case why the dragon reborn is the third choice in your poll? what's rand

got to do with it?

you either join elaida in the white tower or egwene in salidar or join cadsuane's coterie 

in wherever they are,leave rand out of it lol, he had enough troubles already.

[BFG]

@bfg,

"the remaining aes sedai are there because of cadsuane. it was this group i meant."

if that's the case why the dragon reborn is the third choice in your poll? what's rand

got to do with it?

you either join elaida in the white tower or egwene in salidar or join cadsuane's coterie 

in wherever they are,leave rand out of it lol, he had enough troubles already.

Because they're there with Cadsuane, but (presumably) are thinking that the Dragon Reborn needs help/guidance (pick your own word)?

 

The people choosing the Tower or Salidar have decided that healing the Tower whichever group they chose to do so was most important. The group with Cadsuane decided that helping the Dragon Reborn was the most important thing. I guess I'm indicating the desired outcome of the choice, rather than the physical location.

[Aniere]

I think I agree with this, but I'm curious by what you mean by the Blue Ajah mistakes?

 

Elaida disbanded the Blue Ajah because of Siuan and whetever it was she was doing. In the eyes of the Tower, these were mistakes, but even if the Blues messed up, that's no reason to take away a chunk of the Tower.

[Azrayne]

And what if that had been crazy Elaida?

 

 

Focus on doing good individually and staying away from tower politics (Aes Sedai's obsession with internal politics over actually doing their jobs is a huge part of why the order degenerated so massively over the 3000 years, imo). That's part of what bothers me about Aes Sedai - they talk about the Blues taking up causes, the Greens fighting the Shadow, the Yellows healing, etc. but with a very few exceptions aside, we never see them doing these things. Where are the hospitals run by the Yellows, or the wandering healers? They're effectively an ajah dedicated to a single weave which they only use on people who come to the tower and request it or whom they come across incidentally. Where are the groups of the Greens and their warders wandering the edge of the blight, fighting off trolloc raids (although it's implied that the greens at least did do their job earlier in the third age, with the accounts of the Trolloc Wars and the stories about warders going into the Blight)? The reds and greys are the only Ajahs who actually do their job insofar as actually taking an active role in the world, although the number of reds is far in excess of the number necessary, leaving most of them to... sit around the tower in pretty dresses acting catty and scheming for power.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

we don't know that the yellows didn't heal as effectively as any great hospital. or that the Browns didn't keep and restore the greatest written works of history. we know very little of what they actually did.

 

given the state of the world, the hardships of travel, the nonexistent communications systems, I think running the tower as a hospital, as a library, as a university, as a centralized standard of excellence in many fields, might have been the best and most efficient means of using their power for the greater good.

 

now the world is broken and being remade, perhaps this will change.

 

or perhaps healing and learning and rebuilding will fall to those with technical, non magical expertise and the Aes Sedai may hold in the tower or face leashing by the totally not dealt with seanchan.

[Azrayne]

we don't know that the yellows didn't heal as effectively as any great hospital.

 

 

There are no great hospitals, that's the point. Nowhere, not even in historical records, do we hear about a yellow sister who constantly and intentionally goes out of her way to improve the health of the population, the way the Reds go out of their way to protect the population from insane channelers (for all their faults, and they have a ton of them, they do a very necessary job and they do it effectively, without them society would likely have devolved even further than it did). Come one, the closest is the black sister who likes to heal stray cats. That's pretty pathetic for a group of hundreds of women with powerful healing abilities who live centuries and are supposedly dedicated to healing, with the backing of the most powerful political and financial institution in the known world.

 

Imagine if the White Tower set up hospitals in all the major cities that would have them, rotating yellow sisters in and out to offer free healing to those who needed it (not every cold and flu, but those who would otherwise die or be crippled)? Imagine if Yellow sisters wandered the smaller towns and villages, healing the ill they came across? These hospitals or wandering healers could be accompanied by Wise One style nurses who work with herbs and the like, for those with less severe illnesses. Imagine if they set up Red Cross style camps at battlefields to heal the wounded (although they did do this in the Aiel War, although iirc only once the war made it's way to Tar Valon)?

 

Putting aside the obvious societal benefits, think about how much respect and gratitude and acceptance this would gain the Tower, how much it would improve their image and go towards countering the distrust they earn through their political machinations and inherent power imbalance compared to the regular population? How any more teenage girls would dream of seeking out the tower if, say, an Aes Sedai saved their fathers life? Would Tear be willing to outlaw channeling if their nobles started dying unnecessarily while those in Caemlyn or Cairhien survived what should have killed them? Would the Whitecloaks have such an easy time convincing people Aes Sedai are darkfriends when the Aes Sedai selflessly save lives instead of just running around looking down their nose at people, manipulating the nations and sitting in their remote tower playing at internal politics? It makes sense on every level. The Tower wins, the populations wins and the Yellows get a chance to indulge their supposed "passion" for healing.

 

The same goes for the Greens, at least on the border of the Blight. And for that matter, some of the "causes" the Blues supposedly pursue could involve issues of legal equality and justice for the general population.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

so you don't like the way RJ handled the writing for that group.

 

fair enough, he had some flaws.

[mb]

have now voted.  "something else" seemed closest to my choice.

 

 

 

 the nonexistent communications systems

actually, the pigeons could be considered a form of communication; those were the quickest way to send word far off until the rediscovery of Traveling/Skimming.

merchants and peddlers could be considered another form of communication.  They seemed widely traveled and seemed among the first to hear about events.  perhaps also gleemen.

and when Skimming/Traveling was rediscovered, the channelers that knew the weave sent messengers through Gateways.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I mean before that stuff was rediscovered - people would in general not have been able to figure out where traveling aes sedai were or to be able to send s message. villages were mostly isolated and contact with traveling merchants infrequent. at least with the white tower they knew where to go for help, if they were willing to be healed by witches.

[Sooh]

If the reaction Moiraine got in Emonds Field was anything to go by they weren't really well received out in the world anyway... Might be why they chose to stay where they felt welcome. Of course you could argue that that made them even less welcome, but given the fear of anyone channeling really... well.. not surprised. Maybe a bit disappointed, but not surprised...

[Azrayne]

If the reaction Moiraine got in Emonds Field was anything to go by they weren't really well received out in the world anyway... Might be why they chose to stay where they felt welcome. Of course you could argue that that made them even less welcome, but given the fear of anyone channeling really... well.. not surprised. Maybe a bit disappointed, but not surprised...

 

That's exactly why they weren't received well - because they did nothing to visibly help the common people. Although it wasn't universal -they were well received in many places at various times - during the Trolloc wars when they countered the Dreadlords, In Andor for most of it's history, back in Manetheren certainly, along the borderlands circa. EoTW (presumably either because they remember the time when Aes Sedai did actually do something or because of their social attitudes towards women). And there are various individuals who have come to know them individually and become sympathetic or at least tolerant of them (we have Warders from more or less every nation in the Westlands).

 

But as the tower drew in on itself and became obsessed with manipulating and controlling other nations, internal politics, cut off from the common people for whom they appeared to do nothing. Remember that it was only sometime between the Trolloc Wars and the War of Hundred Years that they started taking the three oaths because it was the only way people were willing to deal with them anymore, they didn't just sit down and say "lets bind ourselves against using the power to kill people, creating weapons or lying,' the fact that they had to take those oaths is evidence that they were indulging in that behavior (at least the lying and killing - presumably they weren't making any weapons because they'd lost the knowledge) to begin with, or at least had been doing something to earn a bad enough reputation that people believed they were doing it (and given how they act even with the oaths, I don't doubt for a second that they were getting up to some messed up stuff).

 

All I'm saying is that if the Aes Sedai had been doing their job (being the "Servants of All" in general and actively fulfilling their Ajah specific roles) it would have been of substantial benefit for both the world at large and the tower specifically.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

or they could have more visibly been seen to meddle in the affairs of nations and ended up leashed the world over.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

also if they'd been doing their job as defined by you, we are left with a different world and no book series.

 

this is the world RJ wrote.

 

this is how his AS behaved. his completely fictional, romantic school, no choice In the matter but to talk like puppets to further the plot controlling how characters behaved.

 

if you're angry about the characters he must have succeeded in making them real to you. kudos RJ.

[Sabio]

Guess a lot would depend on what ajah you were.  Staying in the tower isn't really an option if you were blue or green, just as joining the rebels wouldn't be a real option if you were a red.  Had I been in the tower at the time I would of gone the way of my Ajah.  Had I been outside of the tower I would of stayed away from both groups.  Seeing how most Aes Sedai were scared of Rand,  I wouldn't see going towards him.  So my choices would be either staying independent or going to Casudane if I knew she was alive. 

 

As for the Yellow not going out and healing more, you seem to be forgetting how distrustful most people are of the Aes Sedai.  That could get you killed in some lands like Amadicia, where even using herbs if you heal too well you might get unwanted attention, or tear where channeling is also forbidden.  So not a lot of incentive for the yellow to wander about healing the sick since most don't trust you.

 

Aes Sedai have been institutionalized, look how often they do things because that's what tradition says or that's always its been done.  I think out of most groups in the land, the Aes Sedai are the ones who fear change the most.  It never occurred to them that even a weak channeler could still be an asset to the tower, look at how many channelers they missed and over looked.