[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Darthe]

DPR how come your reads list only had null, inconclusive and sus?

[Tommyrod]

[Thane Vakarian]

*offers Tommy a beer to wash down the popcorn*

[Darthe]

Thane are you comfortable with the potential lynches right now?

[Cass]

 

Cass ninja'd Wombat, well done

 

Sick xpost imo.

 

FWIW, I AM OPEN TO A DPR LYNCH

 

 

 

Wombat, why?

[WWWwombat]

Tommy openly howling ITT

 

 

One big reason I'm avoiding voting DPR atm is because every time I convince myself he's scum, he says something good.  Also, he's one of the only people so far who's had the guts to scum read me, so that's a paradoxical plus in my eyes =S

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

Cliff notes Csarmi:

Darthe thinks I'm being "contrived" in how I keep pushing him as a scum read

 

Your one on me is also wrong since I actually said this:

 

Clearly you need to flip town to get that high Yates.

 

).) Not one of my finer moments.

 

 

@Des, you've dropped talking about me for _______(insert reason I'm scum here)_______ several times and then later I'll pop back into a WoT with a new reason and you start pushing me again.  Why would I see that as anything other than contrived?  Would you in my position?  I doubt it.

 

Which you miraculously mistook and also didn't respond to.  

 

Oh you mean where I DID respond to you right here-

 

 

Like I said, posting recaps is a null tell for me, because I do it regardless of alignment given their utility to me in either alignment.  Use them but don't trust them, and if you are ever playing a game as town when I've flipped scum, ignore them completely rather than trying to mine them for clues - because when I'm scum, I poison both the glasses

 

Anyone else think this is Kivam kinda freudian slipping here? And discouraging people from rereading him afterwards if he does flip scum as well?

 

@Des, you've dropped talking about me for _______(insert reason I'm scum here)_______ several times and then later I'll pop back into a WoT with a new reason and you start pushing me again.  Why would I see that as anything other than contrived?  Would you in my position?  I doubt it.

 

I stopped talking about you as much because you weren't posting as much anyways, and I found a new chewtoy in scum!DPR.

 

You never dropped from my scum reads list, and no, I don't think there's ANYTHING you can find "contrived" about my handling of you as a scumread.

 

 

!!!

 

 

And where am I misrepping you? You think my push on you is contrived, since you think I stopped talking about you but then later pushed votes on to you.

 

I explained WHY I wasn't talking about you as much, and that my scumread on you never faded.

 

Served.

 

 

OH you mean where you DIDNT respond to me in the bold?  You know, where you decided to zone in on the word contrived with no relationship to the POV question or actually coherently responding to something you were asked.  Yeah, that response isn't relative to the question at all.

 

You misrep because each time you bring me up it's for something different like you're flinging crap at a wall to see what sticks to fit your assumption that I am a wolf this game and you think that saying it louder is going to make you somehow right.  Instead of actually critically examining my points and responding to them you're just honing in on whatever fits your agenda and arguing to that.  

 

 

Darthe, I'm not going to read you as town just because you want me to.

 

If you give me something to indicate that you might be town here, I'm willing to consider it.

 

But this line of reasoning that I'm just jumping up and shouting that you're scum without analyzing your posts is complete weaksauce and not likely to help your case out at all.

 

I HAVE analyzed your posts and talked about why they seemed scummy to me.

 

I also answered you in the post above- I think if you were town, there's nothing "contrived" you could find about my push on you. I think that whole angle you keep trying to push is dumb.

 

i have the signature i do for a really good reason by the way.

 

[Thane Vakarian]

Thane are you comfortable with the potential lynches right now?

i am, for now. Had Sili on before, and Pral is where my vote is for the moment. I'm going to be in here for another 2.5 hours, so i won't be around EOD i think. 

[hazelkrs1]

Tommy openly howling ITT

 

 

One big reason I'm avoiding voting DPR atm is because every time I convince myself he's scum, he says something good.  Also, he's one of the only people so far who's had the guts to scum read me, so that's a paradoxical plus in my eyes =S

 

 

Coward.

 

Also I've asked you a few times now- what posts are you referring to where he "says something good"?

[WWWwombat]

Cass, this still holds:

 

I ain't scum.  Don't know about AJ, but he looks in his town range to me so far.  As for Kivam, I have the read that I usually have on Kivam.  I think he's probably town, but I have the creeping suspicion that he could easily be scum pulling the wool over my eyes.  Thing is, that's pretty much what I always think of Kivam, so I have no idea what he is right now.  Flips might help a bit.  As for DPR, I think he's been pushing some illogical and scummy agendas even for himself and I don't like it.  I'm by no means sure about him as, in my experience, DPR is a very scummy player regardless of alignment, but I really don't like a lot of his play so far.

 

[Barmacral]

Yey! for my posts almost catching up with my brain! Just a post to do with my current reads, and then I'll get back to ISOs and questioning/responding to specific posts (Yates, don't cry, I'm making eyes at you  )

 

 

OK.

 

 

Current Reads

 

Mostly Green

Des/Csarmi

Krak

AJ

 

Mostly Red

DPR

Kiv

Yates

 

Orange 

Wombat

Sili

 

 

Wanting/Waiting to hear more from:

Nyn

Praya

Dice

Darthe

Hallia

Leelou

Stelio

Thane

Tress

Verb

Yates

 

- - - - - - 

 

 

Have I missed anyone?

 

I'd like to hear some solid defense from/for the people I have in red and orange. Without it I'm leaning towards a vote anywhere in there.

 

If I have you in Green or Null, where exactly are you at? What else have you got for Town?

 

I see my hydra head, but where is me?

 

Darthe, you claimed to have viewed DPR. How do you feel about Des' push on him?

 

I love this post.

 

 

 

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. I know when I'm being deceitful I'm the sort who considers the lay of the land, so my paranoia would be less obvious.

 

 

So your argument is that you're naturally much better at scum than town?  I find that hard to countenance.

 

I'm more careful. Which has its merits and downsides. One of the merits is that I don't knee jerk as much.

 

 

Maybe I'm mistaken, but didn't you say you have been town in all six games you played? How would you know your scum game if you haven't been scum?

[Barmacral]

 

Cass, this still holds:

 

I ain't scum.  Don't know about AJ, but he looks in his town range to me so far.  As for Kivam, I have the read that I usually have on Kivam.  I think he's probably town, but I have the creeping suspicion that he could easily be scum pulling the wool over my eyes.  Thing is, that's pretty much what I always think of Kivam, so I have no idea what he is right now.  Flips might help a bit.  As for DPR, I think he's been pushing some illogical and scummy agendas even for himself and I don't like it.  I'm by no means sure about him as, in my experience, DPR is a very scummy player regardless of alignment, but I really don't like a lot of his play so far.

 

 

 

Re: Bolded - This is how I always feel about these two.

[Darthe]

I don't think Des understands POV.

 

[Sili Quirrels]

 

Yey! for my posts almost catching up with my brain! Just a post to do with my current reads, and then I'll get back to ISOs and questioning/responding to specific posts (Yates, don't cry, I'm making eyes at you  )

 

 

OK.

 

 

Current Reads

 

Mostly Green

Des/Csarmi

Krak

AJ

 

Mostly Red

DPR

Kiv

Yates

 

Orange 

Wombat

Sili

 

 

Wanting/Waiting to hear more from:

Nyn

Praya

Dice

Darthe

Hallia

Leelou

Stelio

Thane

Tress

Verb

Yates

 

- - - - - - 

 

 

Have I missed anyone?

 

I'd like to hear some solid defense from/for the people I have in red and orange. Without it I'm leaning towards a vote anywhere in there.

 

If I have you in Green or Null, where exactly are you at? What else have you got for Town?

 

I see my hydra head, but where is me?

 

Darthe, you claimed to have viewed DPR. How do you feel about Des' push on him?

 

I love this post.

 

 

 

 

They aren't mutually exclusive. I know when I'm being deceitful I'm the sort who considers the lay of the land, so my paranoia would be less obvious.

 

 

So your argument is that you're naturally much better at scum than town?  I find that hard to countenance.

 

I'm more careful. Which has its merits and downsides. One of the merits is that I don't knee jerk as much.

 

 

Maybe I'm mistaken, but didn't you say you have been town in all six games you played? How would you know your scum game if you haven't been scum?

 

Bolded red. I know myself.

[hazelkrs1]

Process of Vindication Darthe, duhhhhh

 

 

And you people underestimate my intelligents

[Darthe]

Point of View?

[WWWwombat]

 

Tommy openly howling ITT

 

 

One big reason I'm avoiding voting DPR atm is because every time I convince myself he's scum, he says something good.  Also, he's one of the only people so far who's had the guts to scum read me, so that's a paradoxical plus in my eyes =S

 

 

Coward.

 

Also I've asked you a few times now- what posts are you referring to where he "says something good"?

 

 

 

A couple of the connections he makes, but mostly the way he seems to be earnestly trying to reduce the emo ITT

 

Anyway, dentist now.

[Darthe]

Dammit he got me to respond to him again...

 

Yeah, this is loltrolling.  

[hazelkrs1]

Point of View?

 

Dear God NOW who's completely missing the sarcasm? Christ I even mispelled "intelligence" to draw the joke out further

 

 

 

 

Tommy openly howling ITT

 

 

One big reason I'm avoiding voting DPR atm is because every time I convince myself he's scum, he says something good.  Also, he's one of the only people so far who's had the guts to scum read me, so that's a paradoxical plus in my eyes =S

 

 

Coward.

 

Also I've asked you a few times now- what posts are you referring to where he "says something good"?

 

 

 

A couple of the connections he makes, but mostly the way he seems to be earnestly trying to reduce the emo ITT

 

Anyway, dentist now.

 

 

I think he's actually overplaying the emo and trying to use that as an excuse to keep dodging me and the points I raise against him

[DPR]

May I just say how much I hate inline colored responses? They make it hell to trim down quotes and remove the stuff you aren't addressing.

 

Re: the bolded/purpled/underlined DPR quote above...

 

See, despite the patented Des Tunneling, this is one of the points he's made against you that really does continue to make complete sense.  You keep characterizing his "seer cover" explanation as DES bringing it up to explain Yates' behavior as a town move, but the actual context doesn't support that.  Despo didn't just "bring it up" - he was specifically asked what he thought about Yates' claim and clearing of Dice, and he kinda had to bring up "seer cover" to explain why he was disregarding the claim entirely.   Blame it on Dice, if anyone, and unless you think Yates, Dice and Despo are mafia together and planned that little exchange behind the scenes, I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

I noted Yates plays. He made 'em, he's a good player and i catalogues 'em.

 

I noted Des possible buddying/supporting Yates plays. I presented it as a possible connection. That's it. I still present it as such.

 

D1 is the only pure day we get and the town benefits not from speculation, metamizing and using the force, but by cataloging evidence to be used to analyze later.

 

That's as plain as i can make it. Nothing is hard info until the bodies start falling. 

 

All the rest of today is a huge waste of time that will only benefit the mafia and make it harder on town to get through on a re-read.

[Songstress]

Can't remember anything else off the top of my head that I wanted to respond to that is still relevant - yesterday at work I was wanting to quote Wombat's previous reads list and ask why I was as high up as I was, but then I saw the Rags had already done it, and I wanted to see if there was anything further before I responded myself (which there was by the time I got there).

 

Have about 10 minutes before I need to run get ready for work, this afternoon is my inaugural training session and I need to do some prep work before my shift starts.

 

Reads list with a few random notes:

 

Fairly comfortable town reads:

 

DesLami - Firmly telling myself not to tinfoil right now.  Des is reading like Town!Des to me, and the tunnel on DPR is reminiscent of many other Town!Des tunnels. And since most of his points make a lot of sense (I did catch the sarcasm in DPR's "really really town" post, FWIW), I'm giving this one credit.  I disagree with some of the other reads, but overall I think we're seeing things pretty similarly.

 

Kivam - I'll admit I haven't read the catchup posts carefully or gone back to check context as recommended, but since the conclusions he's reached have made sense to me and many of them resonated with what I've been thinking, I'm putting him in my town pile for the moment.

 

Wombat - More gut feeling than anything.  May be subject to tinfoil later.

 

Nyn - I don't remember what the discussion was that gave me this impression, but it gave me a pretty strong "yeah, this looks like town!Nyn" vibe that's stuck with me.

 

 

Townish vibe:

 

Yates - I will always tinfoil on Yates, but unless we have a Yates/Des scum team I think I'm more comfortable calling him town. 

 

Rags - Gave him town points for mindmeld when he asked Wombat about why he was so high in the greens on his reads list yesterday.

 

Thane - no specifics, just warm fuzzies.

 

Null/mixed/no clue:

 

Dice

AJ

Leelou

VerBarm - These 4 I don't really remember much that stuck with me one way or another.  Will have to reread to develop a more concrete opinion.

 

 

Cass - Mixed so far.  I don't like DPR's suggestion that her posts are being written by someone else.  She's putting a lot of effort into this, and that I like.  I know I've missed some of what she's posted and will have to go back and re-read her later.

 

Stelio - Really no idea what to do with him yet.

 

Hallia - oh where oh where is my Hally?

 

Mildly uncomfortable:

 

Arsis/Pral

Krak

Darthe

 

No specifics for these guys, just a gut level discomfort that I can probably go back and make less nebulous this weekend.

 

Top scum leans:

 

SIli - More gut feeling than anything specific, although I remember reading several posts that made me say "whoa there" and I could probably go back and pick them out if needed.  Willing to lynch.

 

DPR - I hate the thought of lynching Wes D1 when he's been gone for a while, but I'm seriously uncomfortable with his play so far, specifically how he's been interacting with Des and Cass. 

[Cass]

@Cass - I have no desire to cut the communication between you and I. All of a sudden? :P  What are your thoughts about what I've accused of your post? How do you explain knowing what you do in light that your experience has been one turbo game? I'm good? What do you mean by 'knowing'?? Is it bothering you that something I said is right?  Why would you cite Des above every other player when he is acting so badly - you don't see other players doing what he does, but you do see a lot of comments that say "Oh, that's just Des..." or "Des does tunnel a lot" or "he's gone #FULLDES". Why did you choose to support that, and at the same time, turn your back on Kivam? Because I'm playing my own game and making up my own mind, and it makes sense to me that you are scum (for the way you are playing and the reasons mentioned before - which btw you still haven't directly answered :P). Des might have gone off on long tunnelish posts, and they may have been annoying to multiple people, but that doesn't mean they did not hold an element of truth. I supported the potential for that element of truth - because I happen to be leaning towards it actually being true. FYI I find the fact that you are even asking this question scummy too - you didn't ask me WHY I THINK YOU'RE SCUM, instead you asked me WHY I'M "FOLLOWING" SOMEONE OTHER PEOPLE have been tending to shy away from and criticise. It's clever. And because I know I'm Town, it points you more towards the SCUM.

 

I have not 'turned my back' on Kivam. I have decided that I think it's highly likely he may be scum. I am being watchful and suspicious of him - something he, himself has suggested everyone should do, for EVERY player.

 

To your question about why I've avoided Des - we have history. For the purposes of this game, it does not matter what that history is. However, I've made a significant effort to avoid his ceaseless tunneling, right up to the point where he is just making stuff up to suit his own agenda.

Kind of silly to let this sort of personal history get in the way of a cohesive Town approach, if you were Town, dontchya think?

 

I'm genuinely asking you these questions as they will play an important part in the game later on.

 

 

I'm in Blue. How'd we do?

 

I'd say you still look scum 

[Nynaeve]

I literally cannot catch up. Whenever I finish reading one page, there's a new page to read.

 

I hate you all.

 

(except Lee <3)

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm not even posting that much Nyn.... hate me too?

[DPR]

DPR how come your reads list only had null, inconclusive and sus?

 

It's D1.

 

Why muddy the water with opinion? That's a fools game.

 

Anyone could be mafia. It's highly likely that some of the wolves are the players that haven't posted. They're not even on the radar yet.

 

No one is clear. It's either Null, Inconclusive or Suspect.