[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Yates]

Of course.  Scum who aren't setting up WIFOMs from Day 1 are asleep at the switch and asking to take their teammates down with them if they get caught.  You don't do that as scum?  I sure as hell do, which means I always keep my eyes open for it.  I also find it interesting that you are trying to imply that there is no possible connection between you and DesLami.

Did you just say you are scum? Because I called YOUR POST complete WIFOM.    

 

Also, I'm saying you are OVER REACHING on your Des-Yates connection.  By your logic, we should both be more tied to DPR.  In other words, I can see you starting to form a confirmation bias and trying to read people to fit a narrative rather than letting the game come to you and just taking in facts.  This is something I am ALWAYS looking for on Day 1.  And you are pinging it hard right now.

[csarmi]

I actually liked that Wombat post. So there.

[csarmi]

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

[hazelkrs1]

Yay! Last set of quotes!

 

 

 

The evidence is Yates claim. You have defined it several times, after it has been defined by others several times.

 

My point being that you ignored the previous payer's posts defining "Seer Cover" when you could have just let it stand and watched to see what came of it.

 

Instead, you used you explanation to support Yates and then talk about town-reading other posts.

 

I look at that as ignoring evidence (the obvious) to bring attention to speculation.

 

At this point i honestly think you're bringing it up more than anyone else in the thread, and that concerns me. I was responding to cass because he's a new player, and i figured I might try to be helpful.

 

Don't remember when I did the red.

 

 

Just absolute ENORMOUS townie points here for Sili, in fact so much so they absolutely counter a TON of the scum points I had against him previously.

 

And this isn't even associative either- whether DPR flips scum (very likely imo) or town, this post still looks GREAT for Sili, as he is making an OUTSTANDING point in this post

 

That DPR is bringing up the seer cover thing more than anyone else, yet is fos'ing people who were discussing it

 

 

 

For DPR:

 

so, we have two direct claims for Seer: Yates and Sili....

 

Anybody up for competing trains, or too early?

 

 

 

Either confused or scum.

 

See, that's my point - no one went scum-hunting first. 

 

Instead we get a list of self-professed mafia wonks who are more than happy to elaborate on the merits or lack thereof of Seer Cover. Oh, and Yates is a swell guy.

 

Now, if you go back an look at every non-active player's posts that imply confusion, you'll find that their points are mostly ignored.

 

So why all the celebration over Seer Cover? 

 

Look at me with a straight face and tell me at least one mafia isn't in on all this.

 

 

Largely irrelevant.  Given how much it's been discussed, there's obviously mafia talking about it.  And you seem to be perpetuating the discussion while implying that the discussion is scummy.  How does that make sense from a town PoV?

 

 

Also like this post from Wombat. He points out how silly it is for DPR to say there's likely mafia involved in this discussion, cause like duh obviously, and then he questions DPR's motives in what looks to me like a genuine manner.

 

Can't recall atm, either DPR doesn't respond to this post, or closes the discussion on it or something (I think he quotes it and goes "this post doesn't make me comfortable", coulda been another Wombat post tho)

 

 

 

No. I never mentioned Cass and make no reference to her now. 
 
The name "Seer Cover" implies what the action is meant to accomplish. It's kind of like "Barn Door".
 
Implying that people don't get it, especially coupled with the "trust us - we're the cool kids from the other site that knows how to play..." vibe is a technique that be seen as an effort to intimidate new players - to bully these players into silence or following the misdirection.
 
I'm fine with the technique. But, I'm also fine to point it out as technique. 
 
There is no question that multiple players have cited "The Other Site". To me, that doesn't have a damn thing to do with this game and I see it as fluff and padding.

See, this is where I have to wonder if this is a rusty Townie or a dude with an agenda. You just made a whole stink with Sili about "semantics" being a scum tool and you are using semantics here. You claim you didn't mention Cass but that's a semantic argument since CASS is the person people are responding to and thus you are still talking about Cass.  

You are also accusing Wombat, Sili, and myself of being the "cool kids from the other site," here, which is pretty disingenuous. Doubly so given that Cass specifically references meta as something she's planning on using IN THIS GAME. If she's going to use meta, and she's insinuating that Seer Cover could conceivably be tantamount to role fishing, why is it such a mystery to you when people respond with the meta back story?

PE: Okay. I think I see what you are saying. You feel like it's being over explained by multiple people? I was just responding as I was catching up. I would imagine the fact that it got brought up again made it a conversation point for everyone else. You shining the spotlight on something pretty trivial is what's keeping it alive. So there's your irony for today. It's not a big deal. Let it go, man.

 

 

This is a clever post. Tip o' the cap to you.

 

I look forward to seeing what happens.

 

 

DPR closes the discussion on this post as well.

 

This is a scumtell of Tommy's (not a scumtell Tommy drops when scum, but rather a scumtell he's mentioned before when town), that scum will often want to bookend or CLOSE a discussion instead of continuing it to further devine the motives and pov from the person he was involved with

 

If you guys wanna go after Yates for something, how about going after him for having very little meaningful content?  Then again, the same could be said of the vast majority of this game...

 

Dammit just when Wombat looked towny again for serving DPR in that post...

 

I think it can easily be said that Yates doesn't have much OTHER content besides the whole seer cover thing, but this should be somewhat understandable given what a big deal was made out of that, and that much of Yates' posting this game has been him having to defend himself over two issues that honestly in retrospect got blown big time out of proportion (the amigos thing, and the seer cover thing)

 

So this post looks a bit opportunistic on Wombat's part.

[Yates]

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

Oh God I hope not.  I'm trying to cut them both some slack because I got burned scum reading Rags in his first game back.  But damn.  The stuff they are honing in on is so frivolous and nonsensical I just can't understand the logic...

[hazelkrs1]

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

 

I agree. And he's kind of trying - and very awkwardly I must say - to defend DPR without looking like he's defending DPR

 

Anyways, Imma go ahead and get out a fresh POE, then I need to start doing some errands cause ho lee krap I have been on here all friggin day

[Nynaeve]

Krak, we can be friends again.

[Andrej]

I'd entertain a Kivam CFD after rereading from where I left off last night.

 

I think both him and DPR are blowing a lot of hot air with their mafia theory discussions and I'm not overly impressed with Kivam's recap posts, especially with how he is maintaining a scum read on me despite having his points misconstrued and then neglecting to respond to me when I corrected them. Reeks of misrepping and I agree with Despot that I was uncomfortable with his lengthy post to Cass about meta and what not. I think people are giving them too much credit for making wordy 'pro-town' speeches but in reality it's nothing more than fluff and filler.

 

Also - I STILL think Kivam's vote on Sili was just plain bad, especially now that I'm beginning to come around on my read on Sili. That sort of linear logic is too simplistic for someone touted as highly as he is - and to reiterate my point earlier I thought it was scummy for him to immediately spin it on Verb for pointing out a fact as instant defense of Sili when nothing Sili said explicitly implied he was capable of making NKs.

[csarmi]

Despo in our QT is funny.

 

"OMG Salami help me am i stuck in a DPR tunnel?"

 

I told him he isn't. Hopefully we see the light before a train coming hits us.

[Barmacral]

 

 

 

Re: your comment on button pushing - I thought it was as much, but I'm still not sure I liked the way it came across... and your explanation doesn't clear that up? I was more unclear on the why than the what. I guess what I really wanted to say was  “Barm, were you jumping on a nothing in order to set Leelou up as scum, pushing such a nothing button because you're WILF?” I didn't really see a point for Town to push that button. Who's buttons exactly are you trying to push?

 

At that point in the game anyone at all, the game had just started and up to then there had been exactly zero real content. And it worked, multiple people responded and blew things out of proportion for what I entirely agree should have amounted to nothing.

 

So... is this you backtracking Barm?

 

Nope, clarifying.

[Barmacral]

I'd entertain a Kivam CFD after rereading from where I left off last night.

 

I think both him and DPR are blowing a lot of hot air with their mafia theory discussions and I'm not overly impressed with Kivam's recap posts, especially with how he is maintaining a scum read on me despite having his points misconstrued and then neglecting to respond to me when I corrected them. Reeks of misrepping and I agree with Despot that I was uncomfortable with his lengthy post to Cass about meta and what not. I think people are giving them too much credit for making wordy 'pro-town' speeches but in reality it's nothing more than fluff and filler.

 

Also - I STILL think Kivam's vote on Sili was just plain bad, especially now that I'm beginning to come around on my read on Sili. That sort of linear logic is too simplistic for someone touted as highly as he is - and to reiterate my point earlier I thought it was scummy for him to immediately spin it on Verb for pointing out a fact as instant defense of Sili when nothing Sili said explicitly implied he was capable of making NKs.

 

OMGUS?

[Leelou]

I'd actually like to keep Kiv around for a little bit and watch him. I would not support a CFD on him. Same goes with DPR. 

[csarmi]

Context: we are trying to work on helping each other with their play.

 

Despo is concerned about tunneling. My concern is drawning out my own voice by talkinv too much. He also td me to think first post second but i dont wannado that cause thatd require thinking anx i is lazy.

 

Sorry for spelling mistakes stupid tab dont autocorrect.

[Nynaeve]

I'd actually like to keep Kiv around for a little bit and watch him. I would not support a CFD on him. Same goes with DPR. 

 

Creepy

[Nynaeve]

Context: we are trying to work on helping each other with their play.

 

Despo is concerned about tunneling. My concern is drawning out my own voice by talkinv too much. He also td me to think first post second but i dont wannado that cause thatd require thinking anx i is lazy.

 

Sorry for spelling mistakes stupid tab dont autocorrect.

 

Curious.

[Leelou]

 

I'd actually like to keep Kiv around for a little bit and watch him. I would not support a CFD on him. Same goes with DPR. 

 

Creepy

 

 

It's odd being the stalker compared to the stalked. 

[Darthe]

 

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

Oh God I hope not.  I'm trying to cut them both some slack because I got burned scum reading Rags in his first game back.  But damn.  The stuff they are honing in on is so frivolous and nonsensical I just can't understand the logic...

 

Agreed that those two would be hell as scum together.  I'm not cutting them any slack but Kivamscum could be possible.  I would have thought he would of summarized or analyzed his notes rather than direct posting them as town.  Maybe that's letting rep get to my head.  I don't get your relating them to Rags there but Rags is one of those I would consider dangerous to townread this early on.  

 

Speaking of, I'd like to hear more from you dude.  I saw that you didn't much like Womby putting you at the top of his town list, which I'd say is slightly town of you to say.  How caught up are you?

[hazelkrs1]

I'd entertain a Kivam CFD after rereading from where I left off last night.

 

I think both him and DPR are blowing a lot of hot air with their mafia theory discussions and I'm not overly impressed with Kivam's recap posts, especially with how he is maintaining a scum read on me despite having his points misconstrued and then neglecting to respond to me when I corrected them. Reeks of misrepping and I agree with Despot that I was uncomfortable with his lengthy post to Cass about meta and what not. I think people are giving them too much credit for making wordy 'pro-town' speeches but in reality it's nothing more than fluff and filler.

 

Also - I STILL think Kivam's vote on Sili was just plain bad, especially now that I'm beginning to come around on my read on Sili. That sort of linear logic is too simplistic for someone touted as highly as he is - and to reiterate my point earlier I thought it was scummy for him to immediately spin it on Verb for pointing out a fact as instant defense of Sili when nothing Sili said explicitly implied he was capable of making NKs.

 

Seriously glad I saw this post before finishing my POE post. Standard sized townie points for you, sir

 

 

 

 

 

Re: your comment on button pushing - I thought it was as much, but I'm still not sure I liked the way it came across... and your explanation doesn't clear that up? I was more unclear on the why than the what. I guess what I really wanted to say was  “Barm, were you jumping on a nothing in order to set Leelou up as scum, pushing such a nothing button because you're WILF?” I didn't really see a point for Town to push that button. Who's buttons exactly are you trying to push?

 

At that point in the game anyone at all, the game had just started and up to then there had been exactly zero real content. And it worked, multiple people responded and blew things out of proportion for what I entirely agree should have amounted to nothing.

 

So... is this you backtracking Barm?

 

Nope, clarifying.

 

 

Uh... but you initially had pushed on Leelou for something you're now saying was blown out of proportion... weren't YOU one of those blowing it out of proportion (I thought her comment about it being null, was well, null to town)

 

Ergo, this looks like backtracking now, unless I'm misremembering something.

 

I'd actually like to keep Kiv around for a little bit and watch him. I would not support a CFD on him. Same goes with DPR. 

 

Hope you don't get offended by this, but I kinda feel the only reason you're saying this is because you like those dudes and helped convince them to play.

 

Do you not think some of the stuff being mentioned about them is credible?

 

Also I should clarify that I prob wouldn't go all in on a Kivam CFD today, because I found townie stuff from him earlier, and the main thing that has me concerned about him now is him misrepping my "defense" of Yates and his defense of DPR, but that stuff isn't as conclusive as all the stuff on DPR. DPR looks very likely to be scum to me however, and should DPR flip scum I'd take a closer look at Kivam next.

[Andrej]

Some other stuff that I'd like to respond to in passing - I think Wombat's frustration with the game is probably a good sign and I like how he originally brought up the point about how DPR was maintaining the Seer Cover talk while simultaneously casting it in a bad light as a distraction.

 

Cass reads self-conscious to me as well but I'm content to let her get her feet wet. I like the effort and some of the points that she raised. @Despot, I can see where Darthe is coming from in mentioning that she looks overly 'ready' for the game so I don't think that's as bad as you are making it out to be. I think she explained fairly well herself as to why, which I find believable. I did a lot of reading and such before my first Mafia game which I think helped me get right into it as well. I DO think she's a little too susceptible to things like buddying atm though (see Kivam) but that's where us other salty dogs can come to her rescue

 

I thought Krak's most recent post was decent. I like the thought he obviously put into it but I would like to see more than perpetual catch up posts to really get a read on him. I know this isn't saying much coming from me at the moment since I haven't been particularly present but I should be more available through the end of the week to resume maximum wolf ownage.

 

Hmmm... what else. I still have Yates as pretty green right now. Kivam mentioned that it was weird I would choose to ignore his stance about dropping our 'tell' but whatever - I'll roll with it. If Yates IS scum, it isn't going to be for that reason.

 

I'm a little unsure of the Arsis/Pral wagon because I don't particularly remember why/how it formed but I doubt I'll be able to really go back and read him more before I have to leave for work in an hour.

[Leelou]

Des, they haven't played in a long time, and right now it really feels like big game hunting trying to get them out of the game. I need to analyze their posts, but so far they don't sound too far off from what I remember. 

[Andrej]

 

I'd entertain a Kivam CFD after rereading from where I left off last night.

 

I think both him and DPR are blowing a lot of hot air with their mafia theory discussions and I'm not overly impressed with Kivam's recap posts, especially with how he is maintaining a scum read on me despite having his points misconstrued and then neglecting to respond to me when I corrected them. Reeks of misrepping and I agree with Despot that I was uncomfortable with his lengthy post to Cass about meta and what not. I think people are giving them too much credit for making wordy 'pro-town' speeches but in reality it's nothing more than fluff and filler.

 

Also - I STILL think Kivam's vote on Sili was just plain bad, especially now that I'm beginning to come around on my read on Sili. That sort of linear logic is too simplistic for someone touted as highly as he is - and to reiterate my point earlier I thought it was scummy for him to immediately spin it on Verb for pointing out a fact as instant defense of Sili when nothing Sili said explicitly implied he was capable of making NKs.

 

OMGUS?

 

Perhaps partially, considering my alignment, but it also is more so with his general style. The recaps are more just massive walls of texts without a ton of analysis besides +/- signs which really tell me nothing. I also really, really dislike how he misconstrued my early posts and hasn't responded to my correction.

[hazelkrs1]

Des, they haven't played in a long time, and right now it really feels like big game hunting trying to get them out of the game. I need to analyze their posts, but so far they don't sound too far off from what I remember.

Was worried someone would say it was big game hunting

 

 

Anyways I'd rather you look at the stuff I've been pointing out, specifically the stuff on DPR, instead of just trying to meta or tone read them, cause well even THEY would tell you that meta and tonereading them isn't as likely to be effective at discerning their alignment

[Leelou]

How about I ignore you and read them for myself? 

[TheRagnarok]

 

 

I could see DPR and Kivam being scum both. Kivam running interference for DpR here.

Oh God I hope not.  I'm trying to cut them both some slack because I got burned scum reading Rags in his first game back.  But damn.  The stuff they are honing in on is so frivolous and nonsensical I just can't understand the logic...

 

Agreed that those two would be hell as scum together.  I'm not cutting them any slack but Kivamscum could be possible.  I would have thought he would of summarized or analyzed his notes rather than direct posting them as town.  Maybe that's letting rep get to my head.  I don't get your relating them to Rags there but Rags is one of those I would consider dangerous to townread this early on.  

 

Speaking of, I'd like to hear more from you dude.  I saw that you didn't much like Womby putting you at the top of his town list, which I'd say is slightly town of you to say.  How caught up are you?

 

That's more of what I expect from people who have played with me.  Which is why I was surprised to see Womby's list and want some explanations.

[Kivam]

 

 

I'd entertain a Kivam CFD after rereading from where I left off last night.

 

I think both him and DPR are blowing a lot of hot air with their mafia theory discussions and I'm not overly impressed with Kivam's recap posts, especially with how he is maintaining a scum read on me despite having his points misconstrued and then neglecting to respond to me when I corrected them. Reeks of misrepping and I agree with Despot that I was uncomfortable with his lengthy post to Cass about meta and what not. I think people are giving them too much credit for making wordy 'pro-town' speeches but in reality it's nothing more than fluff and filler.

 

Also - I STILL think Kivam's vote on Sili was just plain bad, especially now that I'm beginning to come around on my read on Sili. That sort of linear logic is too simplistic for someone touted as highly as he is - and to reiterate my point earlier I thought it was scummy for him to immediately spin it on Verb for pointing out a fact as instant defense of Sili when nothing Sili said explicitly implied he was capable of making NKs.

 

OMGUS?

 

Perhaps partially, considering my alignment, but it also is more so with his general style. The recaps are more just massive walls of texts without a ton of analysis besides +/- signs which really tell me nothing. I also really, really dislike how he misconstrued my early posts and hasn't responded to my correction.

 

 

Bold 1: You're not reading carefully, then.

 

Bold 2: We'll see how it holds up when I get there in the recap.