Defining DM Mafia Roles and Balance

[Leelou]

I miss Kiv games. 

[Yates]

Hidden mechanic that your investigation has a 10% chance to come back wrong?  Not bastard modding - just keeping the game from being the same basic game every time.  Unless the game is specifically declared completely basic, no player should be upset by something like that.

There's no place in a basic game for "hidden mechanics." That defeats the whole purpose of BASIC.

[hazelkrs1]

Idea for hidden mechanic: that the [basic] game is actually an [Advanced/Bastard/Jackie Chan] style game

[Kivam]

I'm actually working on an Injustice setup as we speak.

[csarmi]

 

You know what's another cool way to avoid game mechanics influencing your playing? having a mental capacity bigger than a tea cup...

Nyn....  

 

Let's try to keep it civil and respectful please?

 

If I wanted to define the "issue" in the broadest possible definition?  It would be this; when a mod uses a role called "Commuter" and it doesn't act like a "Commuter," it's LIKE the mod is lying to the players and thus BASTARD modding.

 

For me, it's that simple.  

 

You can try saying the players are daft because they are entering a mafia game with certain expectations about how roles should work but you would be wrong.  The MODS are being daft by not adhering to standard definitions that are accepted across multiple forum mafia sites.  Period.  

 

You are LITERALLY saying that you are in support of changing the rules from game to game and trying to shrug it off as if the players just have to "deal with it" when each mod has "House Rules" that you don't know about.  Well, that's not how GAMES are supposed to work.  That's not fair.  And I think you know that.  

 

Something as fundamentally important as knowing what a "Commuter" is isn't giving the player base too much information.  You are simply defining a rule.  I don't think it's part of mafia to have to GUESS what a "Commuter" does any more than it's part of Monopoly to have to GUESS what happens if you land on "Free Parking."  

 

Sorry.  But on this issue I don't think you guys are right at all.  I think mods are being bastard [albeit unintentionally] in non-bastard games and I don't think that's fair.

 

1) I agree with Yates 100% here.

 

2) Also @Nyn - clearly there is not even a common understanding as what counts as basic, standard, advanced or bastard modding - there needs to be a clear consunses on that first. Otherwise we could get a scenario where a role is used on D2 and D4 and half the players could get upset about the existance of such role and one of them would even ragequit calling it bastard modding simply because there is no common basis of understanding.

 

3) Also, forum has a LOT of new players so it's high time to create some sort of common ground.

 

4) On a sidenote, the game is about pleasing the players, not the mods.

[Nolder]

Didn't have much to comment on after all. Just this.
 

 

If you like mindbender games I could see the desire for autonomy.

Personally I can't stand them and would prefer to know in advance if the game will be confusing, because then I won't play.

Don't sign up for games with mods who have run "mindbenders" then; as a mod, I can't run a game where the roles are designed to be part of the puzzle if the players know from the outset whether the roles are standard (and vice versa; when I run a game with vanilla roles, part of the balance - if the player roster has played my games before - is that people are always keeping their eyes open for a twist that isn't there.  WIFOM isn't only for player v. player, you know :) )

As a player you can't always know who these people are.

And even if you do, you'll only really know this by experience which means you'll have had to sign up for and played at least one disappointing game.

[Verbal32]

I'm actually working on an Injustice setup as we speak.

 

Where are you running it?

[Kivam]

 

 

I'm actually working on an Injustice setup as we speak.

 

 

 

Where are you running it?

 

Would run it here, though probably in thak. I've been mafia mia for sip long because of time constraints, so I'd I have time to mod, it won't be on jn (too many posts) and won't have time to wait on the queue here.

 

But it's still in very developmental stages. Won't be a vanilla game and I need to make sure it balances right.

[Nolder]

If you don't want to step on anyone's toes re: queues JN would probably be best imo.

Not sure what too many posts means though.

[Verbal32]

I'm actually working on an Injustice setup as we speak. Where are you running it? Would run it here, though probably in thak. I've been mafia mia for sip long because of time constraints, so I'd I have time to mod, it won't be on jn (too many posts) and won't have time to wait on the queue here. But it's still in very developmental stages. Won't be a vanilla game and I need to make sure it balances right.

 

Ok, I'll keep an eye out for it!  Although if the timing works and you want to run it here, you can have my spot on the Advanced queue.

[Leelou]

 

I'm actually working on an Injustice setup as we speak. Where are you running it? Would run it here, though probably in thak. I've been mafia mia for sip long because of time constraints, so I'd I have time to mod, it won't be on jn (too many posts) and won't have time to wait on the queue here. But it's still in very developmental stages. Won't be a vanilla game and I need to make sure it balances right.

 

Ok, I'll keep an eye out for it!  Although if the timing works and you want to run it here, you can have my spot on the Advanced queue.

 

 

Or he could run it on my game board. :p

[Leelou]

 

 

I'm actually working on an Injustice setup as we speak. Where are you running it? Would run it here, though probably in thak. I've been mafia mia for sip long because of time constraints, so I'd I have time to mod, it won't be on jn (too many posts) and won't have time to wait on the queue here. But it's still in very developmental stages. Won't be a vanilla game and I need to make sure it balances right.

 

Ok, I'll keep an eye out for it!  Although if the timing works and you want to run it here, you can have my spot on the Advanced queue.

 

 

Or he could run it on my game board. :p

 

(which is Thak) 

[Verbal32]

my board is better

 

>_>

[Leelou]

Hah!

[Verbal32]

Well, technically they are both my boards, so.....yeah.

 

 

Hah?

[DPR]

Keep the classifications of Basic and Advanced because everyone gets that.

 

Add the classifications of Classic and Abstract.

 

Classic mafia can focus on rules and structure. The mod can post a list of roles that may or may not appear in the game (with definitions of each role). Any circumstances such as bastard modding would be announced. 

 

Abstract would focus on games with ambiguous rules where the mod does not reveal what they're doing, the players have to sort through roles and powers and no one really has any idea of what's going on until the end.

 

Enthusiasts can choose the type of game they prefer and others can avoid circumstances that they do not enjoy. 

[Nolder]

To be clear are you suggesting that Classic and Abstract be descriptors for Basic and Advanced?

 

Like having Classic Basic game or a Classic Advanced game or an Abstract Basic game or an Abstract Advanced game?

 

Or do you mean that there would be four types of games: Basic, Abstract, Classic, and Advanced

[DPR]

Basic Classic

Advanced Classic

 

Basic Abstract

Advanced Abstract

[Tommyrod]

Can you even have a Basic Abstract

[DPR]

Sure. Same as a Basic Classic - just keep it to simplified rules that are easy to catch onto.

 

The people that enjoy that sort of thing will get it.

[Tommyrod]

Please provide an example of a Basic Abstract game

[DPR]

New Player yearns to experience teh mafia goodness -> is directed to a Basic Classic game to master the fundamentals.

 

Novice Player yearns to stretch their newly won mafia wings -> is directed to an Advanced Classic game.

 

Seasoned Player secretly yens for more, for that je nais se qua missing in their life -> is directed to a Basic Abstract game.

 

Seasoned Player, now consumed with madness, seeks the full expression of said madness by giving themselves over to the Advanced Abstract Game. 

 

 

Somewhere within that equation, your answer waits for you.

[Darthe]

Basic Abstract:

The mason game I just ran and subsequently ditched because the setup had a fatal flaw/I had to move

[Darthe]

All vanilla games with no PR's.  

[Darthe]

Did Kivam say he thought he could host a game here without having to keep up with a ton of activity?  Lol.