[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[Thane Vakarian]

my vote's on Arsis. 

[Tommyrod]

I would like more thoughts and more opinions and more PASSION

[Thane Vakarian]

there's but poor ol' me in here i think. I did put my thoughts on Arsis out there a couple of pages ago. But now i mostly want to see if his bad play was really scumtell by him

[Nynaeve]

[Tommyrod]

Lol

[Alanna]

I'm catching up.

[Krakalakachkn]

Hybrid hammers are for chump towns.

[Arsis]

:yawn:

[Arsis]

Someone let me know when I'm l2

[Verbal32]

##Vote: Arsis

 

 

 

>_>

[Tommyrod]

Someone let me know when I'm l2

You gonna go clamming?

[Thane Vakarian]

i doubt any of the townplayers would let you know something, because, well... ya know... no communication outside of QT or role pm?

[Tommyrod]

Keep an eye on Des.

[keyholder21]

Notes through Page 55 as I go through reread, spoilered, since long:

 

 

 

 

Yates poem to dice (#40) looks like town Yates getting started. Unless he and dice are on the scum team together.

 

 

Tommy starts going at Yates on Page 3.  Yates responds to Tommy on page 5.

 

 

AJ votes Tom “this is probably for the betterment of us all” (#70).  Also, discusses never trusting Tommy and Hallia without an inno view  (#99).  Comments regarding Tom breaking his heart due to grief (#122). Is this a negative on Cory’s notes list?  If not, why not?

 

Manbat has a strong start to the game. 

 

 

Thane discusses set up again, regarding unvoting (#135).  It’s definitely something that could have been asked in a QT or PM.

 

 

Sili, “I’m town again….yay”.  Puts him softly into green.  After 6 games, would have the foresight to announce this on thread if scum?  Would people on a QT even think to coach him to say this?

 

 

AJ “soft playing” it and his spoiler (#148) make sense now in light of his reveal.

 

 

Tommy stating about Verb’s pulling his quotes looks awkward and more likely to come from a wolf.  Is he currently voting him?  If not, why not?  (#200) – if Verb is the wolfiest thing in the thread atm, then why not vote him?  Not like votes are stuck and you certainly have no problem bouncing them around on later pages.  

 

 

Tommy asking BFG for her mafia tell on him (#160) looks interesting, though I am admittedly biased atm, since he looks scummy to me.  Later on, whenever someone says they have a tell for him he laughs them off –  why ask her, then?  Does NOT ask Yates (#248) what his tells are.  Why not?

 

 

BFG (#164) discusses percentages for town.  Tommy later says this is wolfy – Why not say so at the time?  He was in thread and commenting on other things, and has shown no fear in calling things wolfy.

 

 

AJ agrees with Tommy (#201) about Verb’s argument being a stretch. 

 

 

Tommy brings up Alot in a conversation about Verb (#207) – why?  (#219) – Says Verb needs a shakedown. Again, is he currently voting him?

 

 

#240; #244 – Tommy says Yates and then votes him.  #264 – says Yates is giving him “weird vibes” and he doesn’t think Verb is scum right now.  No explanation as to why Verb isn’t scum.  #279 – Says Yates is ignoring him.  I don’t see this.

 

 

#324 – Tommy Discusses rallying enough support to take Sili to a lynch.   

 

 

#361 – I like Hally’s explanation for why she thinks Leelou is town.  It does not look like scumHally.  Hydra with Cory though.  #366 – Says AJ’s response looks forced Does she follow up on this?

 

 

#396 – Second time Leelou has asked about inactives.  Is this normal for her?

 

 

Interaction between Sili and Arsis on page 21 is lol upon reread, also makes me think Arsis and Sili are both townies.

 

 

#423 – I like this post from Cory, as I said one of my reads posts, it isn’t necessary for him to cut down and it looks very townie. Same with #647.

 

 

Page 22 – I like Des’s entrance.  It reads genuine and not omg over the top with bravado, which makes me think town.  I have only ever seen him scum this defeated when we were scum in Avengers together and felt defeated from the power of the town. Never from the getgo.

 

 

Manbat votes Arsis with no explanation (#465) – Is this normal for him? Why not explain?

 

 

#480 – Sili still thinks Tom is scum.

 

 

#483 – feels more skepticism of him feels overdone But not anyone else’s?, but he’s not going to pick a fight with me before seeing more thread action. Since when does Tommy NOT call someone out with a statement or a vote?  Admittedly, this should have been my response when I first responded. 

 

 

#501 – I like Manbat’s response to my question, since idk that he would remember me in the scum QT on DHEL where he said he hated rolling scum.

 

 

#508  - I don’t see where Arsis is getting that manbat is flustered. Would scum Arsis point this out, knowing that Tommy has already said manbat is clear and that Tommy usually has a lot of threadpull?

 

 

#531 – Votes Arsis – Why? Also, again, strikes me odd that he didn’t vote me earlier.

 

#544 – Cory’s reaction and #546 – Tommy’s reaction to Arsis’s “only caught one wolf this time” are interesting to note. 

 

 

#553 – Tommy appealing to monstr for a town list.

 

 

#556 – love Sili’s response here. 

 

 

#557 – Tommy has Verb and Leelou listed as townies.  But was suspicious of Yates earlier – when/why did this change?

 

 

#568 – Monstr’s response to Yates is a good one.

 

#572 – back to saying Yates is ignoring him (Tommy).  Again #600.

 

 

#597 – Terrible response “I can link you to 15 different games….your sample size is too small” to Yates, imo.   Also, shouldn’t rely on what other people think of you, because IT BITES YOU IN THE ASS, I KNOW, but rather by thread play. Would scum monstr do this though?  I don’t remember him bringing up other games in DHEL. Nor appealing to how Tommy thought of him as an excuse/offering

 

 

#598 – Don’t like Yates’s response either “sili and arsis aren’t either” like he’s calling for backup. 

 

 

#602 – Using your own meta as an excuse for what you are doing is NEVER GOOD. Looks more townie to me than scum though.  Maybe because I tend not to use it as scum, but when I’m town and in trouble.

 

#612 – Why defending monstr so hard, Tommy?  Not inherently a scum tell, but why?  Do you not feel he can defend himself adequately?

 

 

#613 – weird response from Cory.  Don’t think I’ve ever seen him NOT give lists this far into a game. Why didn’t Tommy get on Cory about looking grumpy on thread?

 

 

#620 – Yates discussing Tommy going after people when they disappear from the thread.  It looks that way to me too. 

 

 

#631 – What does “decided not to accept the reality of our playstyles” mean?

 

 

#636 – Actually ignoring someone in game is childish and not good. But would Yates say this as a wolf?  Looks more like stubborn/jerk town to me.  #660 – same, but substitute Cory instead of Yates.

 

 

#662 – Sili paranoid of Tommy.  Why isn’t this commented on?

 

 

#668 – Hella scummy pop-in by Arsis, “He also did this…”

 

 

#687 – interesting comment from Hally.  She’s experienced in games where people say they are going on ignore and should KNOW that probably 100% of the time people do read the person anyway.

 

 

#695 – Already gave my thoughts on Berf’s catch up. 

 

 

Page 35 – So far, Alanna hasn’t added much to the game either, which is null, though I like her reads and I can understand where she is coming from.

 

 

#701 – Spot on.

 

 

#710 – AJ suspicious of Tommy.  Where is Cory’s questioning him?

 

 

#716 – Little skeeved by AJ’s giving Berf an easy out re: the culture shift at DM.

 

 

Page 37 – I like dice’s snappiness.  I don’t equate this with scum dice.  I do think he vote on Arsis was weak, though.

 

 

#745 – Tommy votes us “y u so mad”. Why didn’t he vote this earlier?  He, or I, haven’t said anything since and he randomly decides to vote me?  Why not Yates who seemingly had him on ignore?  He says nothing about changing his view on Yates.

 

#751 – Tommy hyperbolates (yeah, I made it up) what Yates is saying in 750 and it looks inflammatory. “you are saying our way of playing is wrong and yours is right.”

 

 

#770 – Thane appears to be following up on his statement that everyone should be looked at D1. Looks good for him, imo.

 

 

#775 – Seems a weird comment to say “someone who won’t be NKd like Berm” when DM has had a habit in the past of killing off low posting people to have a “no info” kill.  Can’t guarantee that won’t happen.  But I like the reasons/suggestions in #777 (“Berf or Rags” since we don’t know berf and rags makes himself hard to read”).

 

 

#776 – I like Leelou’s suggestions for investigation.  Out of the box and solid reasoning.  Looks townie.

 

 

#805 – AJ doesn’t have an opinion on where his thinking I was “standoff-ish” earlier puts me.  #810 – doesn’t want to push me for tone.

 

 

#812 – Again, AJ suspicious of Tom. 

 

 

Page 41-42 – Tom/AJ fight. AJ makes more sense to me – it does look like Tom has been egging Yates on.

 

 

#835 – Thane eats popcorn and then three posts later says to AJ “think we got the point”  Irks me. 

 

#841 – Verb says “good catch” by Tommy looks like scumTom.  Has he followed up on this?

 

 

#848 – So far all of Alanna’s posts could easily be stated as scum interjecting into the game, so they look null to slight town because her reads are very similar to my own  What is the difference between mine and Alanna’s?

 

 

#860 – Tommy “could vote Verb,” but doesn’t.  Has no problem moving his vote around, so why not?

 

#891 – “Berf, Arsis, or Verb all deserve increased scrutiny” and this is after poking at Verb regarding “letting town go off the rails”, Why vote Berf here? Why not vote Verb, who was in the thread and able to interact with him? And when he DID vote Berf, why not call him out for…anything? 

 

#986 – The way Yates is engaging Sili makes me think town. 

 

 

 

 

Main points TL; DR –

 

 

A lot of time/thread on why someone’s read of someone else is the absolute and will not be wrong.   

 

 

Discussing a game that at least half of us were not in and possibly can’t see, is hardly helpful to us seeing your points of view.

 

 

Tommy is dancing around voting for BFG/me and Verb, both.  Not sure why he keeps softpushing. You keep going at us and then backing off.  I'm trying to think like Cory suggested to me a long time ago and consider why someone who is town would do that.  I can't think why you would continuously go back to the same person, only to back off them again.  

 

 

It doesn't look like a town thing to do, and it doesn't look very much like a town!Tom thing to do, imo.  In Woodstock, when you thought Des was scum, you relentlessly hammered on him, same with me/Yates as Kates.  Until you felt satisfied with responses, you continuously pushed buttons.  In comparison, here you are softballing it in. 

 

 

Des’s entrance looks genuine and not omg over the top with bravado, which makes me think town.  I have only ever seen him scum this defeated when we were scum in Avengers together and felt defeated from the power of the town. Never from the getgo.

 

 

Yates/Leelou are hardcore town so far.  Yates not backing down, leelou’s involvement, and I agree with a lot of their arguments. I like how both have handled the players in the thread thus far.

 

 

I like how Thane is poking around talking about other people who might not have been remembered in thread.  He mentions it and then follows up on it later, without needing to be reminded.

 

 

Sili floating around looks townie.  It doesn’t strike me that someone that new into mafia would have the knowledge to postulate some of those questions on thread if they were scum.

 

 

Monstr’s game looks vastly different from DHEL, mainly due to his comfort in thread.  Only way I could see this from a scum monstr would be if he rolled it with Cory or Tom, but I’m not getting that vibe.

 

 

 

I hope to have time this afternoon to catch up with the rest. 

 

 

General thoughts: 

 

I still don't like Berf's one catch up post.  I don't care that there's only been one, I found plenty scummy about it.  I don't like his follow up either, that he will be back later with more, easily made scum excuse to stay under radar.

 

Probably obvious, but I don't believe Tommy's claim - it doesn't make sense to me to play Beloved Princess like that - and I don't like the way he's playing.  It looks different from the town games that I have played/seen him in and as I'm townreading Yates and Des, I feel even more inclined to believe Tommy is scummy as they are reading him this way too.

 

Arsis does NOT look like he's inside his wolf play to me, or to BFG.  I haven't seen the same bravado that I recognize from his scum game; it reads way more like his town game to me; especially the beginning of Avengers. 

 

[Arsis]

 

Someone let me know when I'm l2

You gonna go clamming?

Probably not.

[Hallia]

I collapsed after the thrill of victory last night. I'll catch up on break!

[keyholder21]

I have a meeting, then back to back classes so I'm out for a while.  I'll try to be back late afternoon. 

[Tommyrod]

Yeah Key, how weird that I can't decide on who the best lynch is and keep jumping between my top suspects as I factor in new information and other people's opinions.

 

God that's just so weird and just not a town way to play at all!

[Tommyrod]

Oh no wait, it actually is exactly what town should do. Huh. Funny that.

[Verbal32]

i doubt any of the townplayers would let you know something, because, well... ya know... no communication outside of QT or role pm?

 

I can't decide if Captain Obvious is a scum or town look for you.  You're a smart guy, so I'm thinking perhaps null.

 

 

 

 

Yeah Key, how weird that I can't decide on who the best lynch is and keep jumping between my top suspects as I factor in new information and other people's opinions.

 

God that's just so weird and just not a town way to play at all!

 

But when you agree with the list to look for scum in......I'm not on it.

 

But you vote me anyway.

 

So, your explanation isn't as good as you might think.

[Andrej]

Tom have you considered Cory being a wolf this round?

[Alanna]

So, berf/Arsis trains? I pretty much could go either way.

 

Arsis' play has been bugging me, but this is my first game with him, I think, so I'd be willing to see how he plays out for a little longer. Though I wouldn't mind lynching him just for the trolling :(

 

I will go with ##berf for now. His post didn't ping me as much as it did some others, but I also really thought he'd have posted more by now. Maybe he'll turn up with a train growing on him.

[Andrej]

[v]##Berf[/v]

[Tommyrod]

"Tommy is dancing around voting for BFG/me and Verb, both. Not sure why he keeps softpushing. You keep going at us and then backing off. I'm trying to think like Cory suggested to me a long time ago and consider why someone who is town would do that. I can't think why you would continuously go back to the same person, only to back off them again.

 

It doesn't look like a town thing to do, and it doesn't look very much like a town!Tom thing to do, imo. In Woodstock, when you thought Des was scum, you relentlessly hammered on him, same with me/Yates as Kates. Until you felt satisfied with responses, you continuously pushed buttons. In comparison, here you are softballing it in."

 

There's a lot I object to logic wise in this so I'll keep it simple.

 

My strongest gut scumread is actually you, Key, but I'm trying to ignore it because BFG looks ~okay and that recent post would be a lot of fake work if you were scum.

 

But the stuff I don't agree with:

 

1. Dancing around, as you call it. Actually more likely to be villagery behavior to move votes often because scum have more difficulty maintaining multiple suspects believably -- that's why Yates hyper focusing on me for so long became hard to believe. Even though I'm good at faking this, the more uncertain I am the more likely it is I am town (since I already have all the answers as scum).

 

2. Soft pushing. That's a more vilified way of stating that I'm skeptical of people but don't have enough confidence on it to massacre them. What makes it villagery is that I keep coming back to it -- I'm not pushing when the thread allows and then backing off, I'm pushing when I remember what I didn't like or when one of my other suspects lowers on my list of doubts.

 

The answer as to why town would go back and forth -- it's stupidly simple. Because I don't know yet. Not sure how you can argue that's a scum tell.

 

3. "Town Tom" Behaviors. In Woodstock I hard claimed cop on D1 and was consensus cleared for it so I had the freedom to do what I want. People have been somehow ignoring my claim here or even doubting me more for it, which is asinine.

 

4. Softballing it in. This is scum speak from you, or at least a glaring reduction. Not having a die-hard scum suspect is not softballing it in, it's trying to make the best decision I can before deadline with the information I have. This ties back in to #1.

 

So yeah, none of those are scummy behaviors. They can't be.

[Thane Vakarian]

i look fabulous as Captain Obvious, the Hero town needs.

 

Here's proof: