[Advanced] Revenge of the Marlfox

[hazelkrs1]

Also Dice I HAD to claim. Town couldn't afford to mislynch here.

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Arsis, the claimed Watcher, said no one else had targeted Tommy that night. So protection role blocking my "vig shot" was out of the question.

i kind of meant before you role claimed vigilante, why would they suspect a town roleblocker.

 

guess i'm waiting for key too

 

How would they have suspected a town RBer that blocked me before I claimed a Night Action that indicated I was blocked????????

 

:huh: :huh: :huh:

 

...

 

 

.........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ah, that was my very same question to you. it's because you used past tense.

... You still aren't making any sense. Explain what you meant please. Scum COULDNT have thought there was a town RBer before my gambit, or that wouldn't have made any sense at least

 

I executed my gambit because I expected scum to speculate on a town RBer in the thread. Period.

[Nynaeve]

Vote Count

 

Hallia(2): Sili, Monstr

Dice(1): Des

BFG(1): Des

 

Not voting(6): The rest of you lot

 

 

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

 

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20141111T21&p0=2133&csz=1&swk=1

 

[Nynaeve]

7 hours and 45 minutes till deadline.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

I claimed Vig cause at the time I thought I blocked the kill, so thought scum def hadn't blocked me. Thus I claimed to have shot Tommy and been blocked- a hard thing for scum to react naturally too since they would have known their team didn't block me (and that they would have likely discussed town RBer being present)

the memories are coming back to me

 

curiosity question: why would they have discussed a town roleblocker and not a normal protector?

 

The orange bolded underlined text.

 

Remove the brackets and read the sentence again. It sounds like 'they would have known their team didn't block me and  that they would have likely discussed town rber being present'.

[Leelou]

@Dice - I must have missed it. 

[Leelou]

Updated: 

 

1. Sili Quirrels, vanilla town - lynched D2
2. AJ, Third Party Psychopath - mod killed N2
3. Despo - claimed Doc
4. Pralaya - claimed 1x RB
5. Verb - vanilla town - lynched D3
6. Thane, vanilla town - lynched D1
7. Alanna - no claim
8. Ragnarok - no claim
9. ArsisJr. - town watcher - night killed N3
10. YatesLeelou - tracker
11. Cory & Hallia - claimed JoaT - track N1, cop N2, doc N3 and still unused watcher
12. Tommy, vanilla town - Nightkilled N2
13. BFKey - claimed JK
14. Monstrma'am - claimed psychiatrist
15. Dice - claimed vanilla
16. Berf Sili Quirrels - no claim

[dicetosser1]

thats cool leelou.

[dicetosser1]

 

 

If you believe me, then the best lynch is pretty clearly BFKey here. Just sayin

why?

Because it was already pretty much accepted that one of Lates or BFKey had to be scum here, and BFKey's one saving grace was supposedly stuffing a NK N1.

 

I claimed to show that people shouldn't excuse them for that since it is VERY likely they didn't stuff it after all

 

Also they WERE tracked to the N2 NK target, Tommy.

 

Also what with all the other claims, it seems HIGHLY unlikely there is a Doc AND a JK in this game.

 

 

very likely?  it as likely (assuming they are JK) as you blocking the kill.  FACT there was no NK on N1. We have 2 claimed protective roles that night on different people. that puts you both at 50% chances to stop the kill.

 

this is true and has caused me concern

[hazelkrs1]

No, I'm more likely to have blocked the NK now because scum not killing or blocking the claimed JK last night makes no sense.

[hazelkrs1]

Even as a wifom move it makes no sense. You could still block the JK and claim that them claiming to be blocked over and over is scum giving convenient excuse.

 

NOT blocking the JK means there's a chance your team's NK could get stuffed, shy risk that???

[TheRagnarok]

So BFKey and Serf are two scum members?

 

Doesn't really surprise me. 

[BFG]

I don't believe you, I can't decide right now if you're mafia or pulling one of your town gambits though.

 

I don't believe even you would give us so much rubbish about 'not protecting' Tommy, given that you claim you didn't either night. I don't believe if you were doc, you'd leave it to today to resolve this, given the number of claims yesterday. Given the number of claims yesterday I don't believe you'd focus on Verb yesterday, instead of figuring out which PR claim was lying, since there are a lot even without yours. I don't believe you would ever claim and say that you can't self protect as doc. In short I don't believe you're doc.

 

Your claim feels very conveniently timed to get us lynched.

 

Also are you seriously saying you don't understand the value in killing a player whose invested more and has a better grasp of the game over one who doesn't.

 

And why change your opinion? Yesterday you thought Lates was lying instead of us, yet the only evidence you have for believing we weren't blocked is their claim, since we didn't block the person who was NK, yet now you believe them over us?

[BFG]

And as inconvenient as it is, I'm out to dinner. Most days, since I've been here, I've had difficulties getting on to DM until sometime after the traditional Cloudflare.

[hazelkrs1]

I don't believe you, I can't decide right now if you're mafia or pulling one of your town gambits though.

 

I don't believe even you would give us so much rubbish about 'not protecting' Tommy, given that you claim you didn't either night. I don't believe if you were doc, you'd leave it to today to resolve this, given the number of claims yesterday. Given the number of claims yesterday I don't believe you'd focus on Verb yesterday, instead of figuring out which PR claim was lying, since there are a lot even without yours. I don't believe you would ever claim and say that you can't self protect as doc. In short I don't believe you're doc.

 

Your claim feels very conveniently timed to get us lynched.

 

Also are you seriously saying you don't understand the value in killing a player whose invested more and has a better grasp of the game over one who doesn't.

 

And why change your opinion? Yesterday you thought Lates was lying instead of us, yet the only evidence you have for believing we weren't blocked is their claim, since we didn't block the person who was NK, yet now you believe them over us?

 

Didn't lie, and am not lying now.

 

You know me well enough to know I will hold on to a claim as LONG as need be, and maybe even longer. I think giving scum info for free is dummy dummy.

 

Not sure when you're referring to me believing Lates might be lying, but I've townread them most of the game. They also said they were blocked early in the phase and clarified it when people left them the option of being vague about it to keep wifom open later.

 

YOU otoh, didn't want to reveal your target last night, almost definitely because you didn't want to be caught in a lie.

 

Also interesting that you say all this stuff to make it seem like I'm lying, yet don't want to fully take the stance that I'm scum.

 

 

We got hours to go people. Lynch this turkey.

[Pralaya]

I kinda believe Des. His has been a typical town game so far. Don't see him gambits as scum.

 

I have BFG as scum since the beginning. Her response is kinda weak.She can't believe if he is mafia or pulling gambit s? Really?

 

##BFG

 

Am going to sleep now and won't be on till after deadline. HOpe this goes well.

[hazelkrs1]

And I didn't block Tommy N1 because I felt I was providing enough cover for him, and that he was obvious NK target, and I didn't Doc him the next night cause I thought scum were more likely to kill the Watcher first to prevent from being caught. This is before there was good evidence of a scum RB'er.

 

I also wasn't JK- if I WAS JK, I prob would have JK'ed Tommy N1. In fact almost def would have kept JKing him. Either you stop scum from using a negative townie role against town, or you keep scum from using potential abilities. Just tooooooo +EV for town.

[BFG]

I was in the Mistborn Thak game with you. I'm well aware of your gambits, and I'm aware that occasionally they work. I've read games where you counterclaim claimed PRs as town, so for you, this isn't inherently scummy.

 

And the rest?

 

Why didn't you 'protect' Tommy ANY night?

[BFG]

Hey, I'm around. Been hanging back and observing since I wanted to reevaluate my feelings on pretty much everything about this game, and I'm glad I did since claims have been flying through the thread since then.

 

Back at work tonight so will go into much more detail, but lemme at least comment on all the claims we've had so far, in order of which I find most believable to least believable

 

Manbat-Psychiatrist: his role is essentially confirmed to be in the game with AJ's flip, and he is absurdly townie here and is always looking at things with a solve mindset

 

Hallia-JOAT: The way in which she claims totally jives with how'd she do so as a town JOAT. I have felt her backbone has been showing all game, and in a townie way, not in a way of someone trying to fake backbone to fake a towntell of hers. And both actions make sense imo- Hallia doesn't go for the sneaky clever move with her NA a lot of times, she lets her instinct drive it. I'll have to check to make sure she suspected Pray like she said, but I'm pretty sure I remember her doing so earlier. Makes sense for her to cop him to make sure. And "clearing" AJ after tracking him N1 makes sense as well.

 

Pray-X shot RBer: I buy this too. Before all these claims, I was actually really worried about him. He basically trolls me any game we play together and tells me how wrong I am constantly (even tho I often give out fake reads but w/e), and has told me in the past that as scum he just pockets me and tells me how good my reads are while misleading me and the rest of town. Was worried he was executing the exact scumtell he gave me. However, the claims came out, and well I think they clear him anyways (as Manbat said, even if Hallia is scum she prob wasn't trying to protect a teammate). The one caveat to those would be GF, but then his role claim after that makes basically no sense for a GF since being miscleared would be everything a GF would want- even if they were a GF with limited shot abilities of some kind, I don't think they would reveal something like that right after being cop cleared. And the manner of his claim also tells me he's likely telling the truth, not much reason to lie there (don't really see the protown angle to revealing that role info, but meh). So long story short I believe his claim

 

BFKey-JK: I'm flip flopping on this read. It's a bit associative, but I think some of the other claim stuff that has come out corroborates their claim, and like with Hallia and Pray, I don't think scum!Lates came out and backed up a scummate's claim like that. I also think now it is likely they stuffed a NK, whereas before I thought a town RBer might have stuffed the NK or a Doc, but with all these other claims I kinda doubt a Doc exists in this game tbh, but at the time BFKey wouldn't have guessed that if they were scum.

 

Tbh, BFKey would prob go above Pray here, but yeah leaving them in this order cause #LazyDespot. As far as the claims I don't trust/believe:

 

---

 

Arsis-Watcher: I actually initially believed the claim, cause claiming in the night and the way he did as scum seems like it wouldn't make much sense to me, but now I'm starting to flip flop on that. Arsis DOES seem like the player who always wants to do the unexpected, and I guess I could see him as scum doing that move just for the wifom of "doesn't make sense as scum". I also think he's used wifom arguments recently irt his Watcher claim, like saying he would have already faked a guilty on someone by now or something. I also think he didn't use his role in a protown manner- revealing his results instantly even tho Tracker/Watcher claims late in the day are some of the best ways to catch someone in a lie. Furthermore something about the way he seems to feel about his role kind of makes me think of Yates/Leelou. And that leads me to...

 

Lates-Tracker: Pretty sure they're lying here. Or at the very least, are lying about being town. I think they might be scum Tracker, and are being honest in that they feel their role is useless or something. Gaming the mod, but I could see Krak giving scum a Tracker and Watcher if town is PR heavy, and a leet RBer of some kind to help nullify those PR's as they find them with the Tracker/Watcher combo. Anyways, Yates' play lately is all over the place and makes no sense. He claims to have lied about getting the cop guilty on Pray to test Pray and Hallia, but he would have had no idea Hallia copped Pray. That makes no sense, like, at all. He also seems to be pursuing empty and fruitless arguments a lot- arguing with town PR claims about why they didn't do this, or do that, even while claiming to believe their role sometimes. Looks like him just trying to look busy or try to nudge them and make them look worse without actually hard pushing against them. He did this with Manbat, is doing this with Hallia, yeah just looks scummy. Also he was pursuing the Tommy false trail I was laying down yesterday, only I thought that might be an actual gambit on his part. Since it seems that was never the case, I now think he looks pretty scummy for pushing that angle for so long.

 

As far as Leelou goes, it seems she is soft pushing against the PR claims as well without coming in strong on which ones she believes, which I don't like, but the biggest thing that pinged from her lately for me was asking Hallia about her other shots. That seemed a lot more scum-oriented of a questioning line than town-oriented. Scum would want to know her other shots a lot more, town wanting to catch her in a lie could have easily just waited for more results to see how they jived with other investigative results, and wouldn't need to push her for the rest of her role now.

The post where Des thinks Arsis and Lates were lying about their roles.

 

Fwiw

 

Really late now

[Sili Quirrels]

##Despot to even out the wagons a little, at least. Either Despot or BFkey, I guess.

 

Personally I can't offer much in the way of insight into this dilemma. In the end it's the same. I believe bfg more than i believe despot. I figure despot's argument is contrived, and convenient considering it could be mylo. I also think his various grammatical errors and befuddling attempts to explain himself coherently are indicative of someone making up a story. It's too jotted and erratic and reactionary.

 

But I seem to be alone in this thinking.

 

So BFKey and Serf are two scum members?

 

Doesn't really surprise me. 

you want me to distance myself? or do you want me to uncharacteristically vote key just because the guy who's lead two townies to their deaths says so.

[hazelkrs1]

Lol both of you two are outed

 

Wanna give up the third and concede?

 

[Sili Quirrels]

I was in the Mistborn Thak game with you. I'm well aware of your gambits, and I'm aware that occasionally they work. I've read games where you counterclaim claimed PRs as town, so for you, this isn't inherently scummy.

 

And the rest?

 

Why didn't you 'protect' Tommy ANY night?

No, if he's fake claiming at what might be mylo and you flip jk, there aren't any excuses left for him. Right now, your lynch could cost us the game, and he knows it.

[Leelou]

Is Rags around anywhere? Or Hallia? 

[Sili Quirrels]

Rags just posted.

[Hallia]

On break via mobile. I know it's not me, so if the choice is between us:

 

## vote: BFKey