Freemasons vs. Illuminati - Day One

[Tyler Glembo]

@Addi - You responded to Dice but didn't respond to Clov's continued questioning.  Can you follow up on that?

[Tyler Glembo]

@Key - Now that Yates is off the table as Des' partner, what is your WTL list?

[Andrej]

AJ, I have a really hard time believing your ignorance on what Yates was doing since it was freakin' obvious.  He even wrote things like "fake claim seer" and was hardcore baiting anybody into claiming Des' mason partner, but especially Addi as doing so would only be something a newbie would do as it is incredibly stupid and would result in an inta-lynch for scum.  Did you really not catch any of it? 

 

It became more clear to me after the fact, yeah. There's a post a few pages back where I said that I think I had finally figured it out and Yates questions me about who I thought it was. At that point I figured it was either him or Clov or Yates was simply the Seer.

 

He also claimed VT at one point. And 'fake claimed' Mason and Seer in consecutive pages. It was obvious he was pulling some gambit which he'll do as either alignment, and I was already skeptical of him prior to that - so yeah - I was pressuring him to spill the beans because I felt like he was relying more on the gambit than actual analysis/scum hunting.

[Andrej]

I've already talked about Hallia and my read there isn't changing, songs or not.  Key is staying in the same place, even though she is reading more town as the game goes on, I just can't put her below AJ on the list.  AJ has moved up as per above.  Dice is moving to more town because I think his appeal to Yates looks genuine even if oog.  Addi I have literally no read on her thought process of her posts, but her confusion on what Yates was doing looked genuine enough and she seems awfully paranoid. 

 

WTL in order:

 

Hallia

Key

AJ

Dice

Addi

 

If not Hallia then I think Key/Addi can be basically locked in at this point.

 

I'm waiting to see where Key goes after Yates reveal but I'd be willing to CFD onto her for today. I was sort of bothered how she came in to piggy back me while I was pressuring him yesterday.

[Clovdyx]

If not you then somewhere in Key/Dice/Addi/TG

 

Whichever claims Seer takes them out of that, obviously. If the Seer isn't in that population then I would likely go Addi/Key, then Dice/TG.

 

I'm assuming TG is there so you have a fourth and not because you're begining to rethink him?  Or did you see something recently to make you have some doubts?

[Clovdyx]

[unvote][v]Hallia[/v]

 

 

I don't think Dice would get hostile towards me if his clearing post to Yates was actually a lie, so I'm fine putting him on the backburner.  I won't lump him in with the locks due to people burning me on jerk moves, but I can slot him as the least likely of the possibles.  We can safely mislynch two, and I don't see scum outside of Addi/Dice/Key/Hallia.

[Andrej]

 

If not you then somewhere in Key/Dice/Addi/TG

 

Whichever claims Seer takes them out of that, obviously. If the Seer isn't in that population then I would likely go Addi/Key, then Dice/TG.

 

I'm assuming TG is there so you have a fourth and not because you're begining to rethink him?  Or did you see something recently to make you have some doubts?

 

Not rethinking him, no.

 

He's last on the list fwiw and is more there just because he is one of the remaining players outside of who I think are clear.

 

I don't think you are Mafia here. I agree with what you've/others have said about Dice. He's got integrity and I don't think he'd violate that just to win a game here, although I would prefer him not go that route in this case.

 

Yates/BFG/GF are the Masons.

 

I know I'm clear.

 

Hallia/Key/Addi wins this imo

 

and if 2 of those 3 turn up town that leaves TG

[Andrej]

Unofficial VC 7

 

Hallia (4): Dice, TG, AJ, Clov
Addi (1): Hallia
Key (1): Yates
Yates (1): Key

Not Voting: GF, BFG, Addi

 

DL is tonight I believe.

[Andrej]

Considering moving to Key but I don't want to let Hallia off the hook either

[Graendals favourite]

I'm ok with [v]Hallia[/v]

[Graendals favourite]

With 10 I believe it takes 6, no, with hallia at 5?

[Andrej]

[v]Key[/v]

 

Yeah, I'll keep her at L-2 to prevent ninja hammer just in case.

[Andrej]

Unofficial VC 8

 

Hallia (4): Dice, TG, Clov, GF

Addi (1): Hallia
Key (2): Yates, AJ
Yates (1): Key

Not Voting: BFG, Addi

 

DL is ~tonight.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

If not you then somewhere in Key/Dice/Addi/TG

 

Whichever claims Seer takes them out of that, obviously. If the Seer isn't in that population then I would likely go Addi/Key, then Dice/TG.

 

I'm assuming TG is there so you have a fourth and not because you're begining to rethink him?  Or did you see something recently to make you have some doubts?

 

Not rethinking him, no.

 

He's last on the list fwiw and is more there just because he is one of the remaining players outside of who I think are clear.

 

I don't think you are Mafia here. I agree with what you've/others have said about Dice. He's got integrity and I don't think he'd violate that just to win a game here, although I would prefer him not go that route in this case.

 

Yates/BFG/GF are the Masons.

 

I know I'm clear.

 

Hallia/Key/Addi wins this imo

 

and if 2 of those 3 turn up town that leaves TG

 

 

This is where I am with Dice.  We have a maximum with four lynches left and can afford two mislynches.  If we Addi, Hallia, and Key and only get one scum, I'm going to push Dice.  TG could be going deep - and from m y POV, so could you - but neither of your early play makes any sense from a scum perspective.  

[Andrej]

This is where I am with Dice.  We have a maximum with four lynches left and can afford two mislynches.  If we Addi, Hallia, and Key and only get one scum, I'm going to push Dice.  TG could be going deep - and from m y POV, so could you - but neither of your early play makes any sense from a scum perspective.

 

Same principle mostly.

 

You and TG are my deep wolves basically just because I feel both of you are good enough to play the long game and I can't mechanically clear you like the Masons. I agree that TG lynching Lenlo D1 as Illuminati doesn't fit from a scum perspective but he will bus accordingly as seen in the Woodstock game. I don't think scum expected to get a lot out of Lenlo this game tbh. With you it's stuff that I mentioned earlier like questioning me early and the meta trap you played on TG. Those would be very villagery things to do as a wolf so the tinfoil is soft and I wouldn't advocate lynching either of you until we get some more clarity from within the Chosen 3.

 

I think Dice is probably town here or just pulling our leg, which I would frown upon later.

[keyholder21]

I obviously have no handle on this game.

Hallia's EOD1 play looks town, to me. I feel like if GF had been lynched, she had to know that she would be looked askance at since she was pushing him so hard.

BUT it's also difficult to ignore that Len was a PR for scum and someone that team would obviously want to save. GF would make a good target because he's not around often and is generally seen as confusing when he is. She's also been snippy toward AJ later in the game for what seems like no reason and I don't remember seeing aggro Hallia before except for the HP game where she was scum and tried to get me lynched. Also don't see why her WiM would have been damaged due to the game restarting when it restarted with a scum lynch. I think her throwing Addi under the bus could be a distancing tactic. 

Slight tinfoil on TG. I could see him and Len cooking up them going at each other again in the beginning. Reading his ISO, he asks a lot of questions of others, poking and prodding at some, but not going after anyone hardcore. His play regarding why he thinks Addi looks town would fit them on a team together. He also left Clov off his WTL list. Definitely admittedly meh on that point, but in a game this small where he just referred to that player a post or two above, it makes me itchy.  I don't think he fits on a team with Hallia though.  


Addi. I hate going after new players in general, but her catchup seemed very knowledgable for someone that darthe called "green as grass" and a new new player. I understand she knows darthe, but I would think too much helping from him would break his game. She also seemed offended both in the beginning with dice, and against Yates for them going at her, which I normally don't get from a new player if they are town.  It took rereading for me to see it. Since she's not a mason, it looks suspicious and she fits on a team with either Hally or TG, though for different reasons.  


My list is Hallia/TG/Addi.  

 

 

[unvote]

 

I don't see BFG or Addi ninja hammering, so    

 

[v]Hallia[/v]

[keyholder21]

 I was sort of bothered how she came in to piggy back me while I was pressuring him yesterday.

 

 

I didn't understand what he was doing, so I had questions.  

[Hallia]

Lol, Key goes the whole time saying how she thinks I'm town, then votes me.

 

Remember that when I die.

[Hallia]

Unvote

 

Vote Key

[keyholder21]

Lol, Key goes the whole time saying how she thinks I'm town, then votes me.

 

Remember that when I die.

It would be pretty difficult to miss.

[BFG]

That doesn't help. Can you expand? Get some reads out?

 

 

That doesn't make any sense. Town would want their reads out there before being lynched. Your reticence to do so looks bad :(

 

 

You don't see why? That sounds like caught scum not wanting to out buddies anymore.

 

 

Lol, Key goes the whole time saying how she thinks I'm town, then votes me.

 

Remember that when I die.

What are the rest of your reads?

[BFG]

BFG I think you're misunderstanding the Seer's power. Their results will only come as Mason or not Mason, so lynching the goon first isn't really that good because then the Mafia could simply claim along with the other Masons and all the Seer could do was verify.

 

In this situation, lynching one of their Illuminati first has now put them in the situation that one of them is forced to lie and therefore can be caught.

 

As far as the Seer revealing NM views this obviously comes with a grain of salt but it would increase the chances of finding the last illuminati during the Day. The Seer's only purpose now is finding the Mason result within the group who claimed to be not Masons. I'm not suggesting those viewed as non Mason are hard clear but they are at the very least confirmed to not be Illuminati

 

?????????

 

 

 

 

If mafia masons claimed then we'd have the 2 remaining mafia amidst 6 players. Even if Town derped really badly mafia would be dead with a maximum of 2 mislynches. So they don't claim which puts them as 2 amongst (max) 6 for the seer to view, in this case the masons claim as the seer can now act like a cop with no GF and more importantly for every mason that's killed there will be a new cleared townie or caught mafia. 'goon' dead and cop alive start Day 2 makes town pretty unbeatable imo.

 

Essentially the masons are strong goons, as a viewing doesn't out them, but puts them to 1/3. The goon is a weak GF as instead of being 1/9ish (depending on setup) it's 1/5...

 

Don't get me wrong, town's still in a pretty good position, but if we hadn't claimed we'd have a decent chance of 'named' role townies making it to end game, as neither GF or I are likely to have needed to claim for a couple of days die to Lenlo wagon and aren't vocal enough players to have been nightkilled without the claim.

 

C'est la vie

 

 

 

 

 

BFG voting Len after he voted GF makes a lot more sense now too.

There it is.  

 

 

There was a little more to it than that. If I was just voting to save GF I'd have voted Key as that would have put her in the lead, but Yates was talking about Lenlo/Hallia lynched and GF would be able to switch as well, sso I hoped that someone would switch, especially given the problems with Lenlo's reads list.

[BFG]

Unofficial VC 7

 

 

Hallia (4): Dice, TG, AJ, Clov

Addi (1): Hallia

Key (1): Yates

Yates (1): Key

 

Not Voting: GF, BFG[/blue], Addi

 

DL is tonight I believe.

Hmmmmm

[BFG]

 

Unofficial VC 7

 

 

Hallia (4): Dice, TG, AJ, Clov

Addi (1): Hallia

Key (1): Yates

Yates (1): Key

 

Not Voting: GF, BFG, Addi

 

DL is tonight I believe.

Hmmmmm

 

[BFG]

2 conflicts here. Hallia is not giving out reads, something she told GF was townie. There's also no counter wagon, since Yates is only on Key because he can't unvote. There were no 'cleared' townies on Hallia till AJ invited and GF voted.

 

Not sure what to make of this.