[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Tommyrod]

Mynd are you scum? Be honest.

inb4 Red asks if I'm a lie detector again 

[Myndrunner]

 

 

 

I think you're imagining it.

 

The only thing I've seen from Mynd irt Red is stuff like this:

 

I actually am not buying her claim as much anymore. 

 

she could be fake claiming but it doesn't mean she's scum either. 

 

She could be scum,

 

I smell a rotten bandwagon.

 

 

Well, for one she could be scum.  If I believed she was, that is where my vote would be.  I smell a rotten bandwagon because I don't think she is and her lynch built up very fast.  Usually in these cases it is because a lot of scum saw an opportunity to jump on board.  That and some narrow-minded townies.  Its frustrating to play a game where 1/3 of the town simply go along with the flow and not put any actual thought into things.  Just yelling "SCUM" without anything to back it up is no way to win.

 

Yes Mynd, let's chat. If you would like to see my explanation on your scummy post look here .

 

Essentially, what you are saying is that you don't find Red scummy because X but you doubt her claim because Y. I took several examples from one post where you are saying "I don't think Red is scum, but she could be" etc. This allows you to play both sides of the argument. You can defend her via meta, but continue to add motivation to her wagon without actually voting her by casting doubt on her character/role. It's a good way to keep you from getting your hands dirty in the event that she is lynched and flips as she claimed because you can always backtrack and pull the "I said she was on her meta!" gig to explain your absence on the train.

 

Scum 101.

 

I also strongly dislike what you are suggesting in regards to hydra hunting, and not simply because I am a hydra this game. A beautiful and majestic one, I might add. For one, you keep saying there are 16 slots. There's 19, so it's 14:5, which is says clearly in the VC that you quoted. This lessens the probability by a good amount of your theory that multiple hydras are on the scum team. While it is still very possible you seem to be saying that we should isolate the hydra teams and proceed in that fashion. I dislike this for obvious reasons, namely the fact that you are suggesting we more or less ignore other gameplay to focus on the hydras because they *could* pose a bigger threat. I also disagree with this on a fundamental level because as others have already pointed out, having 2 heads to one slot doubles the chance that one of them slip up. It also ignores the blatant advantage it gives to town for those hydras because they function very much like a Mason pair in the sense that they are two sets of eyes that are confirmed to each other to dissect the game together.

 

In short, this feels like a scum agenda. You are isolating a pool of several slots (enough to bring the game to Mylo) and suggesting we more or less policy lynch them systematically because of a faulty theory that the scum team can control the thread.

 

No bueno.

I don't think she is scum, but she could be.  How is this scummy? Anyone who feels someone is 100% town is either a mason or mafia.  Only the mafia are sure of who is mafia and who isn't.  I assume ANYONE besides myself could be scum.  As I'm sure we can discuss further at a later time, to assume someone is 100% town just because they appear to be town is often fatal.  Don't Trust Anyone.

 

My hands got dirty the moment I voted Mishtress.  Was it not I who turned this from a spam-fest to an actual game with that vote? I also am the lead vote on the second largest train right now.  How can my hands be any dirtier?  (.......insert meme unfit for Dawn's eyes here....)

 

It is simple.  I am not voting Red because she hasn't given me any reason to.  The more others press on this, the more likely I feel she is town.  I can only assume that the point of your post is that you are attempting in some form to blame me for her lynch.  Your logic baffles me.

 

You are right about the 19 slots.  My mistake. My head was still in an earlier game that I am no longer part of.  I won't make the same mistakes here that I did there.  Yes I am trying to isolate our target pool to a smaller number.  Its kinda part of what an effective scumhunter does.  Would you rather go after 5 out of 19 player slots, or 2 out of 7?  I'm not saying we slay them all, but we look among them as to who is likely the scummiest.  I mean, that's what mafia is all about.  When player x is lynched and flips scum/town, you look among those who voted or didn't vote.   That's the same thing. 

 

ANd you have yet to address the added advantage a scum team has by having even just one hydra with them.  That's one extra voice.  One extra person to flood the thread with propaganda and spin.  One extra person to lead the sheep down the path of destruction.  By looking at the names, I'm sure that Darthe didn't put a strong player with a week one.  DespoWomby alone are a vicious team. 

 

Again, it is not certain that there is even one hydra team with the scummies, but it is likely.  It is possible that there may be as many as three or four, but narrowing down our suspects is exactly what we are supposed to be doing.  I will write off your apprehension to this gambit as to you being a hydra yourself; however, if you KNOW you are not scum, you have nothing to worry about.  Let's look to those hydra that ARE likely scum......

 

 

......for example....

 

.....Mishtress!

 

 

 

 

When I flip my vote to Red, THEN you can officially say that my opinion has completely changed.  Based on what I have read, I don't think she is mafia.  I think some people see her as dangerous and want her out of the game.  They are called scum.  We should lynch them instead.

 

Havent attempted my reread yet. But i have a vague idea of the events going on. I like where mynd's head is at. I dont feel that red is scum and im quite sure people are scared of her and they should be, i dont like how she isnt fighting as much as i saw her do last time. On the contrary my other half does and i have yet to discuss it with him.

 

@mynd I dont know that you should look to far into how characters match up to the story though. The red wedding was a massacre and it eliminates multiple roles if you try to match the story to the setup. Ill probably break down and do a 20 page reread tonight. Going to the gym now so this is all i have to add. 

 

 

Sure, but we can all agree that whoever is Rob Stark in this game is town, right?  Likewise, Bolton and Frey will likely be scum, agree? 

 

Agreed but there is only so many black and white claims. Some are gonna be grey and running up a lynch on them seems iffy. 

 

Running up a lynch on that alone, I agree.   It does factor though.  Someone claiming to be Rob Stark would be vetted easily.  Someone claiming to be his unborn child is a stretch.  As I have stated before, if I believed Red to be scum just because I don't buy her claim, I'd have voted her. 

[Myndrunner]

 

Mynd are you scum? Be honest.

 

inb4 Red asks if I'm a lie detector again 

 

 

Do you want me to say I am scum or do you want me to be honest?

[Tommyrod]

Shall I interpret that as an artful dodge?!

[Leelou]

Can it be a rule that Mynd has to post RDJ gifs in all his posts? 

[Songstress]

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

[Myndrunner]

Can it be a rule that Mynd has to post RDJ gifs in all his posts? 

 

Yes.

[hazelkrs1]

First some stuff, then a summary:

 

 

 

 

 

 

##Unvote

##Vote RedWatch Dawn move her vote now

OMGUS much?

Don't worry it's just a joke vote! shameless dog pile vote on the person with the most votes.

 

 

FTFY

 

 

Bleurgh

 

 

Red your reasoning for continuing to vote me makes approximately zero sense. You have an apparent scum suspect in Mish yet you are voting me "for reactions." The reactions you're getting are from probtownies who recognize this is my obvtown game.

Try again.

 

red - mutli taskign and casing multiple people is good.

 

you're reaction to a single vote is scummy.  you've done nothing scum hunting wise, you've only had cheerleading support for the case building on Mish, and you blatantly wagon a person with the longest train with no other reason than OMGUS and people are defending you.

 

to quote Hamlet's mother "the lady doth protest too much, me thinks,"

 

blue - the only perosn i trust in this game is myself.

 

pink - meta isn't a good defense and i dont buy it, nor do i use it to determine the scumminess ot towness of a person. 

 

green - nah i'm good.

 

 

Again I say, bleurgh. Scummy scummy breakdown post Red. And the way you keep trying to make your parked vote seem more significant, or that it is causing significant reactions, is terribad.

 

Now, consider this.  There are 16 player slots.  According to the OP, 5 are mafia.  That means we have 11/5 town to scum.

 

I don't like these hydra teams one bit, especially when you place a Womby with a Despo or a Verb with a Tinaheck.  That's like having a player who is Batman AND Kratos. 

 

More importantly, there are 7 of these freaks.  The odds of at least 3 of them being scum are pretty good, I'd say.  While a 2 person Hydra Townie is really just the same as masons who both die together, a 2 person scum member is actually part of 6 maybe 7 individual scum entities, even if there are only 5 bodies to kill.  Quite a big brain pool.  They may be one person in this thread, but they would be two people on the Mafia QT.  Twice the input.  Twice the scum. 

 

Roster:

 

1. Mistress (Mish/Tress)

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des)
5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)
6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej)
11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)
12. Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)
16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

 

If we lynch one of these, our reward far outweighs our risk, especially with the added benefit of proper casing.  Suppose we lynch Nyankat and they flip town.  Big deal.  We lose one townie with two brains.  If they flip mafia, we can eliminate two mouthpieces from their mafia QT.  That is two less people trying to distract and sway us in the wrong direction.  No risk of tag-teaming us off a cliff.

 

I am not saying that we should ignore the single players here.  I'm saying that we probably should go after who among these unnatural hydra freaks are the most likely to be scum.

 

Right now, Mistress looks it.....but what about Verbalina?  Awful quiet. 

 

 

(that's me knocking over Mynd's basket of awful ideas)

 

Seriously tho, fake scumhunting alert. This kind of gadgeting thing is not what I would expect from town!Mynd. Scum are randomly distributed, they can be anywhere. Using any kind of arbitrary method of whittling down the lynch pool doesn't really help town in any way, shape, or form. It's just turning the game into probabilities and statistics at that point.

 

I don't really have a huge issue with hydras in general.
I just think it's really stupid for a GOT/Red Wedding theme.

I'm all about theme and hydras just don't fit.

 

Def don't like Nol's posts this game. Barely seems like he's playing, is just sitting on the sidelines commenting on irrelevant issues

 

 

I still haven't caught up all the way yet. I'm such a lazy fart smeller.

 

Promise to commit just a crapton of focus to this game later today however. Gotta pick up the little one at 2, so I'll be ready to wreck the thread in ~8.5 hours

In my experience scum will continuously make excuses while town will just do it or not do it.

You're now #3.

 

 

And this fos was lazy and scummy. In my experience, scum will look for easy ways to make other people look scummy, instead of give more concrete thoughts about the major stuff going on in the game.

 

 

Sorry folks, was super busy yesterday, and too tired after getting home to check back in.  I'll catch up today for sure (have about 20 pages to read) and jump back in.

99% of it is spam or walls of text. Have fun.

 

 

Also don't like this one- the tone seems off to me. Complaining about too much fluff or wot's when Nol's biggest complaint most of the time is inactivity. Just seems like he's bitching just to bitch, possibly to try and mask his meta, or to give him an excuse for not committing to any firm reads or anything

 

Yeah I haven't really caught my stride yet.

I always feel a bit overwhelmed in large games.

If I live long enough to see the crowd thin you'll see more of my usual gameplay.

 

Again, more tertiary comments from Nol, and trying to misrep his meta as well. Town!Nol aint scurred to jump into the fray and offer his thoughts.

 

 

 

i explained why my vote was still parked there.  its a damned if you do and damned if you dont situation

See it's posts like this that convince people you are scum. If you are Town, why do you care how your "vote hopping" is perceived? ESPECIALLY if you can claim a Town power role? If you're Town and you move your vote, and someone challenges you on why you moved your vote, you tell them WHY you moved your vote because - as Town - your reasons are TOWN MOTIVATED. So, again, your "logic" is completely off the farm.

 

 

This^^

 

I never get why townies are afraid as to how their voting is going to look. It's natural to have your reads change with new information of if you see a slip. 

 

 

Possible TMI slip? How do you know that Red is town? And before you defend yourself simplistically- I realize this was more of a generalized comment. However, in this context... it's obviously involving Red. Didn't you think she was scum? Cause if so, then making a generalized comment about townies doing something, when the person who did the activity in question seemed scummy to you... just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Clarification please?

 

getting scum is the main objective, but so is not getting lynched so you can stay alive to fid the scum to lynch them.  as i saw it, mvogin my vote woudl be like adding jet fuel to the fire, i didn't feel like adding jet fuel to the fire.

 

OT but jet fuel is actually a lot less combustible than other types of fuel

 

 

[Leelou]

 

 

Can it be a rule that Mynd has to post RDJ gifs in all his posts? 

 

Yes.

 

Yay!  

[Myndrunner]

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

 

......and on that.....

 

##unvote

 

Roles don't matter, eh?  Sorry, mi'lady.  Your other half led me to this but this foolishness won't go on any longer.  Had you been a bit better looking, I might have chosen you for my own bride. 

[Tommyrod]

FWIW Des I've had one lazy eye on Nolder, waiting to see if there's any improvement. Generally see the same stuff you are, good sign.

[Leelou]

@ Des - it's just a generalized comment on how townies seem to be afraid to vote. I still think Red is scummy with her behaviors and is hiding behind being cautious with her vote because she's afraid she'd be judged. So basically - townies shouldn't fear it and scum tends to be more cautious. 

[Leelou]

I've been coughing all day, so I'm going to bed. I'm tired of being sick, so here's to feeling better in the morning. Night all. 

[amegakure]

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

are you getting married or are you claiming to be roslin frey? 

 

@mynd i believe the claim. period. If we use your theory about relating it to the story this should seal the deal. directy from ASOI&F wikia "many of Robb's personal guard are killed by Freys, including Smalljon Umber,''

[Tommyrod]

The amount of hydra discussion in this thread is absolutely absurd. "Gadgeting" is a good term for it. Reminds me of Darthe with his "mafia is just math!" nonsense. Reminds me of the inane gaming-the-game conversations that were brought up in the Champs game you were in, Des. 

[Songstress]

 

 

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

are you getting married or are you claiming to be roslin frey?

 

@mynd i believe the claim. period. If we use your theory about relating it to the story this should seal the deal. directy from ASOI&F wikia "many of Robb's personal guard are killed by Freys, including Smalljon Umber,''

Shh, I'm in character.

 

Yes, we are Roslin Frey.

[Krakalakachkn]

First 20 pages

 

 

Disagree with Mish push from Mynd/Red.  The only thing against her I saw was her trying to redirect onto X

On a similar point, Tress is phoning it

 

Nyn is LOCK CLEAR

 

Tommy/Cory push on Dawn looks like sharks attacking a baby otter.  Easy prey and it looks worse for Tommy due to him voting Dawn but continuing to press hard on Mish.  Mish is more experienced and has posted more concrete content than Dawn who has played 5 games and obviously doesn't know how to respond to Tommy and Cory.  If they keep on her and she doesn't give up anything more obviscum than she has (meaning I don't think she has at this point) then I'm happy to vote Tommy because at that point it's not him pushing her to test her, it's him going for an easy lynch.  

 

Red attempting to justify her joke vote on Tommy with a reference to the Goat in the books is pretty much a scum claim.

Her then post about Dawn essentially demanding an apology is just a bad attempt to redirect attention onto Dawn, following Cory/Tommy and hoping to direct more heat onto the new player.  And as an aside, calling Dawn crass was not only rude but looked like Red was trying to sling dirt that wasn't based on gameplay.

 

##Vote Red

 

 

 

Wombat saying

 

Red/Mish compete go?

 

and then

 

 

I didn't get any scummy vibes from Mish's first post but her vote on X and the way she changed her story after Mynd started pressuring her are both pretty turrible. It appears Mynd has struck a nerve because she has started flailing around a bit as well.

 

Red nudging on Mish but actually voting for Tom because of a joke is gross as well. 

 

Dawn is being Dawn. It will take some time for me to get an accurate read on her.

 

I have no idea what the current VC is *looks at Darthe* but competing trains would be a good idea.

 

 

##Vote Mish

 

This is bad.  Striking a nerve with Mish is null and you know it.  And nudging Red while voting Mish is doubly bad.

 

Isn't good.

 

His comment about Red is good as it shows him critiquing Cloud's case, but Wombat defending Mish after the above post strikes me as wrong.  FoS.

 

 

 

 

 

[Krakalakachkn]

I believe my vote puts Red at L-1.

[Lenlo]

 

 

As I've already said, I'm not "rustled" about being today's lynch. In my experience when I've been run up D1 you spend too much time thereafter unproductively trying to recover. I think it's a bit rude to lynch the bride on her own wedding day, but as we're vanilla town it's no great loss, and all kinds of good info for tomorrow.

are you getting married or are you claiming to be roslin frey?

 

@mynd i believe the claim. period. If we use your theory about relating it to the story this should seal the deal. directy from ASOI&F wikia "many of Robb's personal guard are killed by Freys, including Smalljon Umber,''

Shh, I'm in character.

 

Yes, we are Roslin Frey.

 

How does that make you town exactly? Shes a Frey, you know, the family who murdered everyone at the wedding? So what if your the bride, that doesnt auto town you.

[Tommyrod]

First 20 pages

 

 

Disagree with Mish push from Mynd/Red.  The only thing against her I saw was her trying to redirect onto X

On a similar point, Tress is phoning it

 

Nyn is LOCK CLEAR

 

Tommy/Cory push on Dawn looks like sharks attacking a baby otter.  Easy prey and it looks worse for Tommy due to him voting Dawn but continuing to press hard on Mish.  Mish is more experienced and has posted more concrete content than Dawn who has played 5 games and obviously doesn't know how to respond to Tommy and Cory.  If they keep on her and she doesn't give up anything more obviscum than she has (meaning I don't think she has at this point) then I'm happy to vote Tommy because at that point it's not him pushing her to test her, it's him going for an easy lynch.  

 

Red attempting to justify her joke vote on Tommy with a reference to the Goat in the books is pretty much a scum claim.

Her then post about Dawn essentially demanding an apology is just a bad attempt to redirect attention onto Dawn, following Cory/Tommy and hoping to direct more heat onto the new player.  And as an aside, calling Dawn crass was not only rude but looked like Red was trying to sling dirt that wasn't based on gameplay.

 

##Vote Red

Bleh. You can't have it both ways.

[Myndrunner]

Roster:

 

1. Mistress (Mish/Tress)  - town, the bride to be, or as the cool kids say.....LOCKEDCLEAR

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des)

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud)

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - half has been very passive this whole game, the other half has aggressively opposed the whole notion that there are hydras on the scum team.

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina) - TOO quiet.  Verb rarely gets going until Day 2, but I'd expect more from Tina. 

12. Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat)

 

Remember the nature of one who is scum.  They know they are scum and will act with that very thought in their scummy little heads.  They are inherently guilty and no matter how skilled they are as a player, there is always a tell in their responses.  They are motivated to distract, discredit, and destroy.  They want us to be single minded and easily led.  They don't want others to consider other possibilities that could result in their demise. 

 

A scumhunter must consider all options, and go with what would be the best benefit to the town.  Effective scum-hunting by nature involves asking WHY about everything.  Why did this player post this at this time?  Why is that player asking that question?  What purpose does this post serve?

 

So, ask yourself this.   Who has been trying to discredit, distract, and destroy the most so far in this game? 

[Nolder]

 

Red:

 

Neither. I'm not going to read junk like that. Use quotes like a normal person if you want me to read them.

 

Also I wasn't directing your NA, dunno how you got that impression.

I was saying your ability is pointless at this point so we may as well lynch you since you're acting scummy.

 

some peolpe just can't be pleased.

 

its was the "what would we have her do" statement.  i read that as you suggesting that the thread direct who i target.

What I was trying to say is that your role isn't very useful to those of us who are town right now.

What could you do to benefit us? AKA what would we even have you do?

We have no other claimed power roles so the odds of you protecting one in a game this size is very slim.

What that means, at least to me, is that you may as well have claimed vanilla for all your role is worth.

It's not going to help us so imo it should have no bearing on whether you live or die.

[hazelkrs1]

So, my general impression of the thread atm:

 

CrayJay and Tommy look like they're in #poweralliance mode. Haven't seen anything to make me uncomfortable about either so far. LOCK CLEAR, in other words.

 

I've waffled a lot on my read of Red. Not surprising, really, as she has a knack for making herself look scummy when she's town. Generally don't like a lot of her posts, but her stubborness is actually more of a towntell for her, and I recently saw what could be a TMI slip from Leelou that could spew Red as town. Also, considering we already have a claim (not the most vettable claim, but can still possibly be proven), I def don't think we should lynch there today. Me likee spreading the pressure around D1.

 

As far as Yates claim, premature VT claims bug the shit out of me, but eh his approach about it and followup since seem townie. I also don't think he's one to try and use some funky trick to try and "clear" himself as scum. So he goes in the town pile for now.

 

Mishtress looks town to me. Don't like Tress' tunneling on me, but her WIM is high, and the stuff she points out doesn't look like her trying to misrep or overembellish, it seems more like her trying to put stuff together. Her reads list was bad tho, as others have already pointed out. Mish is also on her town meta a bit, since town!Mish is a lot more likely to get rustled easily than scum!Mish. Won't clear her on that since she has been a bit surly in general lately, but I also haven't seen anything that made me think that she was scum.

 

Happy with my partner's vote on Mynd. His idea of focusing on hydras only is terribad, his scumhunting in general is weak this game, he isn't prodding people like he normally does but is instead hedging his bets a lot. Also his overuse of flavor spec to decide how he feels about Red's claim is discomforting to say the least.

 

Don't like Lenlo so far. Well, I lerved him laying the smack down on Verbal the Grammar Nazi earlier, but I def don't like his catchup posts. Too much posturing, tone was bad, and it seemed like his complaining about wots was forced, didn't read as genuine. Don't like the points he has made IN his catchups either, he's either hedging his bets or fos'ing people I see as town.

 

Jack seems like he's trying to hide. Stuck in permacatchup mode. I know I know, pot kettle blah blah. But w/e, it's what I see. Might iso him to flesh this out further.

 

Nolder is totally playing on the sidelines. Commenting on his own meta here or there, but never really coming down with any firm reads or opinions on anything really. He is def someone that needs to be watched.

 

Erm... just saw Krak put Red at L-1. Without ever mentioning her claim. Scummmmmmmm.

 

Also, Dawn looked like confirmed scum to me earlier in the thread. My other head said she could still just be new and stuff... but eh she looked extremely defensive earlier. Something to consider for later.

 

Will offer more when it pops into my head, for now lemme see what else I missed

[Myndrunner]

Oh and for Leelou....

 

[Tommyrod]

A scumhunter must consider all options, and go with what would be the best benefit to the town.  Effective scum-hunting by nature involves asking WHY about everything.  Why did this player post this at this time?  Why is that player asking that question?  What purpose does this post serve?

 

So, ask yourself this.   Who has been trying to discredit, distract, and destroy the most so far in this game?

Uh... you?