[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

[Pralaya]

What you said about the playstyle is pretty true - especially since, at this point, I am playing worse than I did in my last 2 games (not worse as in scummier, worse as in seeming more new) when I think about it. 

 

I'm not getting very good reads this game. Yes, you are at the top of my list for scum - and not just because you are Team Jacob. If that was the case, I'd probably have unvoted you by now and voted Tina or Clov (the other 2 I have scum reads for) instead. The tone of your posts sounds kind of similar to the tone of someone who happened to be mafia in another game I played.

 

Since 3 seems to be the usual number of scum in a game, I'm guessing that the 3 scum are you, Tina, and Clov. 

 

Honsetly, Csarmi does not seem very scummy to me.

 

 

To the bold. Most of the people do not get good reads Day 1. You are not alone, don't let it disappoint you, hehe. As the game goes on, you will get better reads.

 

That said, as Tina said, you have been talking about Des but not about Tina and Clov. Why do you have a scum read on them?

 

 

Apparently {Quote = name} (with correct brackets) is not the way to get the poster's name to show up in a quote.

 

Did you put the name in quotes? [ quote = "name" ] should work.

 

 

 

So I think Tina is town because she put out a #gamestarter vote that looked to be trying to get reactions, then followed it up with analytical posts showing she was studying those reactions. I find this to be a strong indication of someone trying to #solve.

 

Do you think that is scummy? If so, why?

I think it null that she did it to get the game going, thats fine. What I didnt like it was she voted and then tossed to the baton to anyone that would pick it up, which just so happened to be you. Now I think its null because everyone would want the game to get going, scum and town alike imo but thats cause whenever im mafia I enjoy getting into the thick of things and worming my way out.

 

If the game is mostly fluff and little gameplay, which favors the scumteam, do you think it would be a good idea to try and stop that and get more gameplay going?

Yes it would be a good idea, I just disagree with the way she did it. If she had stuck around and answered Jacks accusations or atleast continued to push it it would have been fine. The nwhen she finally comes back she doesnt vie a read on the major players in the confrontation. She just recaps everything that happened and then basically calls you all null. Thats scummy and fence sitting imo and Prals def of "Well its only 15 pages of gameplay how can she get reads in that" is bad. You can easily get reads in that. Specially with that kinda confrontation. ((Think it was Pral that said that?))

 

Cause generally speaking, that's not a good idea for a scummie to do.

Depends on the player imo. You and I as scum have no problem jump starting crap and getting into the middle of things cause for me atleast its alot funner than just sitting out and being passive. Dunno bout your motivations. :P

 

It could have been done to try and get towncred, but again, the way she followed it up makes this less likely imo.

She didnt follow it up well though imo, which is where we are disagreeing. I think her followup was bad and you think it was good.

 

Work with me here Lenlo.

First get me a nice cup of tea, Earl Grey White 2 drops of honey and some cream. Chop chop.

 

 

This response from Lenlo seemed better compared to his earlier posts. Back to null but still wary.

 

unvote

[Verbal32]

I, too, would like to hear Dawn's reasons for listing Tina & Clov as scum.  Seemed a little tacked on, there.

[Lenlo]

[Leelou]

Vote Count

 

Salami (3) - Hallia, Tina, Cory

Des-Des (3) - Dawn, Darthe, Jack

Tina (1) - Lenlo

Verbal (1) - Clov

Cory (1) - Dice

Clov (1) - Des

 

Not Voting - BFG, Salami, Verbal, Pral

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

 

DEADLINE: Tuesday, Noon EST 

[BFG]

 

You got anything for BFG, Jack? He's been increasingly more active over the last 24 hours or so.

 

Also I hope your recovery is going well, Cory. Praying it's better than my knee. :)

I went back 5 pages and didn't see much. Most recent posts seem pretty solid though like she's actually solving stuff. Some points I disagree with like her opinion on Tina so there's that.

 

 

this seems strange, both from Jack and Clov. Clovs initial question was posted before I posted my catch-up posts, my last post before that was about the horror that is Jedward.  Which was also more than 5 pages ago (if one's being penicity).

 

It bodes ill because the trains changed majorly in a short amount of time.  That amount of traction and indecisiveness, especially from a particular group, either means that a good part of the votes needed to lynch are being led around by the nose or town doesn't have its crap together at all.

 

Des clearly is the best lynch of the three.  I am voting him after all.

 

Salami is more likely town than mafia anyways, but I would say that that is exacerbated from the attempt of that same group to form a train on him for reasoning that, as I pointed out, literally did not exist.  They didn't cite anything.  Added onto that the fact that he was the latest of a defacto train switch and the potential for that to be mafia led and I would say that he goes from the ~75% we all have to ~90% to be town.

 

What's given you a town read on Csarmi besides the train on him at this point?  Additionally on the train you have Des, Cory, Tina as mafia for voting together and Des is your strongest read, yet Des has defended Tina and to a certain extent Cory, something I don't recall him ever doing as Mafia?

 

 

 

Oh oops I thought Tina was on there cause they are tied closely in my reads. Thats what happens when you use your breaks from lab reports to do mafia. Dont do that kids.

 

It was you, Dawn and Darthe. I meant less the voting train though and more the attention cause we were focused on Des and Jack and now suddenly its moving to Csarmi.

 

I thought you had Tina/Des tied from your notes earlier? Why would Tina be voting Des if that were the case?

 

What are you saying here? Yes they are tied, as in tied together, in my reads. They are acting very close to one another. And why would she be voting him? Distancing. Easy answer. Scum do it all the time. In this instance it would most likely be helpful to distance herself from Des if they were scummates together as up to now they were tied to each other by alot.

 

I want to know why you seem to have a scum read on me the only things youve said about me have been questions.

 

 

So what exactly has tied them together?  Acting very close to one another - so following each other around on votes (presumably) so why, in this context, would Tina be voting Des?

 

It's a weak read, I don't have strong reads yet as everybody seems to be doing stuff I don't understand at least some of the time.

 

 

Darthe, why do you think Lenlo is town?

Cause im a stud muffin.

 

 

 

Sorry for the horrible activity folks. Some major sh#t is happening in RL (several major problems actually) and I can't give the game any focus. I really don't know what to do... I'd hate to ask for a replacement.

 

Sorry to hear that

 

So here's where I'm at atm:

 

Des

Cory

Tina

BFG

Lenlo

Darthe

Dice

 

are all LOCK CLEAR. Dice was a late addition, his tone recently reads well to me, is likely town.

 

---

Salami

Hallia

Verbal

Pral

 

Are all null atm. Forgot Verbal was even playing tbh lol. Now that the weekend is wrapping up he should contribute more. Hallia should hopefully be able to contribute more soon as well once JCon ends. Wanna check on Pray cause I don't really remember anything from him atm.

 

---

 

Jack

Dawn

Clovdyx

 

Are all good suspects imo. Clov for his TMI slip, Jack cause his responses haven't looked that good so far imo, like he's trying too hard to feign amusement with everything. And Dawn has been hiding behind fluff imo- her contributions to the game so far are "LOL lynch Team Jacob! I'm on Team Kill Everyone! LOL!" and... that's about it. Thinking the recent soft little nudge/fos could have been distancing on Jack's part. Clov also came to Jack's rescue earlier, and I don't like the way he seems to be hedging his bets with Cory in his recent posts.

 

So why were you voting Csarmi?

 

 

My reaction is that you voted someone after I just cased them without providing any comment was not okay.

 

 

He did the work, you piled on without a word, despite having just said Despot was town.  If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch, you would be one of the first people I would want to look at.

 

Lenlo is town-leaning null for me ATM.  Good points about Tina leading the wagons and you and Despot following (though you were on Csarmi first, before moving to Despot).  I liked his answer in Post 169 about Csarmi being an easier lynch than Jack, too.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean by this. From your later post I'm assuming you mean if Des was lynched, regardless of his flip you'd be looking at Cory because his vote looks the worst? But why does Des's lynch make a difference? If the vote is scummy regardless of Des's eventual flip why aren't you pushing Cory more for the vote?

 

I had hoped for more than this des. You once again have greatly exxadurated segments too see how people own up in reactions too them.

 

Which sections do you think are exaggerated.

 

 

 

 

I think Jack is town and im undecided on Des. Darthe I want to lean town atm and im thinking Tina could use more pressure because ever since that vote on Jack shes been coasting and letting others do the fighting for her.

 

##Vote Tina

 

Don't really like this vote. He mentions putting pressure on her but it looks more like wanting to push her case further.

 

After Tina's response, he is still good about his read on her

 

 

Can you explain the difference between putting pressure and pushing a case?

Pral jumps in and with his second post of the game goes to bat for Tina. You don't like my vote cause I'm not just putting pressure on her, I'm pushing my case on her? Ofc I am! If I don't seriously Pursue it then it's not real pressure, it's a half-baked vote that she can shrug off.

 

On phone do these might be abit weird with capitols and such. Sorry.

 

I like this response from Lenlo

 

 

 

Des. Your the only vote on clov. Plz practice what you preach.

 

I've asked Tina directly and got shrugged off or didn't get an answer.

 

unvote and vote des

 

Your defending Tina is overt and I honestly can't see where your coming from with it. Also you pushing for me to remove my vote from her in favor of a more viable lynch is odd. Since there's only two more people with more votes then her and it's only by one.

 

Bahahaha what a terrible response. You're pretty much outed "hopper" to me now Jack, thank you

 

 

I just placed a vote on Clov after pointing out what looks to me like a scumslip. Others have also seemed like they would be interested in hearing his response to what I pointed out, indicating they could be open to voting him as well.

 

You otoh were pushing a stale train on someone that many in the thread are reading as town, and you were simply restating the original case on her without ever really bringing anything new to the table.

 

I HAVE been practicing what I preach Jack. When I preach at the Sermon of Scumhunting, I shall be sure to include a nice visual passage just for you and for the generosity with which you have given yourself away to me with.

 

You honestly can't see where I'm coming from regarding my defense of Tina? Even tho I have been very open and vocal about why I think Tina is town and have made my evaluation on her as transparent as possible while the game was going on?

 

Bullshanks.

 

And I want you to make your vote useful. Parking it on a stale train isn't useful, you know that. Now you're resorting to yet more OMGUS to make yourself appear active again.

 

If you are/were town, you could continue voting Tina for all I cared, I just would have wanted to see you trying to garner support for the train then in that case. The manner in which you have followed up on your reads this game does not look organic to me, does not look like you trying to actually hunt scum.

 

 

Please tell me the bold is sarcasm

 

 

 

So I think Tina is town because she put out a #gamestarter vote that looked to be trying to get reactions, then followed it up with analytical posts showing she was studying those reactions. I find this to be a strong indication of someone trying to #solve.

 

Do you think that is scummy? If so, why?

I think it null that she did it to get the game going, thats fine. What I didnt like it was she voted and then tossed to the baton to anyone that would pick it up, which just so happened to be you. Now I think its null because everyone would want the game to get going, scum and town alike imo but thats cause whenever im mafia I enjoy getting into the thick of things and worming my way out.

 

If the game is mostly fluff and little gameplay, which favors the scumteam, do you think it would be a good idea to try and stop that and get more gameplay going?

Yes it would be a good idea, I just disagree with the way she did it. If she had stuck around and answered Jacks accusations or atleast continued to push it it would have been fine. The nwhen she finally comes back she doesnt vie a read on the major players in the confrontation. She just recaps everything that happened and then basically calls you all null. Thats scummy and fence sitting imo and Prals def of "Well its only 15 pages of gameplay how can she get reads in that" is bad. You can easily get reads in that. Specially with that kinda confrontation. ((Think it was Pral that said that?))

 

Cause generally speaking, that's not a good idea for a scummie to do.

Depends on the player imo. You and I as scum have no problem jump starting crap and getting into the middle of things cause for me atleast its alot funner than just sitting out and being passive. Dunno bout your motivations. :P

 

It could have been done to try and get towncred, but again, the way she followed it up makes this less likely imo.

She didnt follow it up well though imo, which is where we are disagreeing. I think her followup was bad and you think it was good.

 

Work with me here Lenlo.

First get me a nice cup of tea, Earl Grey White 2 drops of honey and some cream. Chop chop.

 

 

So would you say that it's in Tina's meta to get in the middle of things as mafia?

 

 

 

 

Think about the other 2 games I've played. I was scum in both of those. And I don't think I'm really playing the same way as I did the other games, am I? Other games I was scum and was contributing more (even though I did joke around a lot in my last game.)

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

 

This post right here- defending yourself by attempting to use your own meta- only strengthens the scumread I have on you Dawn.

 

Think about it for a sec.

 

How difficult would it be to change your playstyle a bit, after a couple of games as scum, in order to use this exact defense at this point? Not that difficult at all. This makes the point you raised completely moot.

 

Furthermore as a newer player, your meta is much more subject to change than most, but honestly I would contest that your play isn't even all that different. I don't care to compare those games with this one however- in this one, your play has seemed scummy to me. You have pretty much failed to contribute anything to the scumhunt, even tho you've been somewhat active. You extended RVS jokes past the stage where they were relevant. You tried blaming your lack of serious play on your PR, even tho your non-serious play was the reason you got a PR in the first place.

 

So why shouldn't I find you scummy, Dawn?

 

And while we're at it- what do you think of me? Do you think I'm scum? Do you have any confident town reads?

 

What you said about the playstyle is pretty true - especially since, at this point, I am playing worse than I did in my last 2 games (not worse as in scummier, worse as in seeming more new) when I think about it. 

 

I'm not getting very good reads this game. Yes, you are at the top of my list for scum - and not just because you are Team Jacob. If that was the case, I'd probably have unvoted you by now and voted Tina or Clov (the other 2 I have scum reads for) instead. The tone of your posts sounds kind of similar to the tone of someone who happened to be mafia in another game I played.

 

Since 3 seems to be the usual number of scum in a game, I'm guessing that the 3 scum are you, Tina, and Clov. 

 

Honsetly, Csarmi does not seem very scummy to me.

 

 

Add me to the list of people who want to know why you're reading Tina and Clov as mafia?  Also I still want to know why you were curious about Cory's town read on you but not Darthes?

 

 

 

And if my laptop crashes again I'm throwing it out the window

[Lenlo]

BFG 2 things

1) Why would scum vote Des? Ive already said it, distancing. It doesnt look like Des will get lynched today so its a safe vote to distance from a teammate if she is scum.

2) I dont know her meta. I barely know anyones meta. I dont like to pay attention to it or use it.  Yeah I know some things like Jack always votes spot 11, Des is aggressive and Darthe is just plain crazy but thats about it.

[Cory Caboose]

I'M DURNK WHO ARE WE LYNCHING???

GONGERA

[Lenlo]

I'M DURNK WHO ARE WE LYNCHING???

 

GONGERA

Drunk MafiaTM? Should we get Ishy in here?

[Sedai]

He's perma banned

[Cory Caboose]

your perma banned

[Darthe]

Which is sad.

 

After reading like three of them I think something is off about BFGs big posts. She doesnt ask questions that are hard hitting or relevant. Seems safe.

[dawnflower8]

Who got perma banned, and why? 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

[Lenlo]

Wait really? What? What happened?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Just trying something before I do an actual post.

[Lenlo]

Im gonna want a catchup about the Ishy thing, by PM if you prefer. I had no idea.

[Clovdyx]

Okay, the quote with name thing didn't seem to work.  Will have to deal with the multis.

 

Please unvote before voting again. 

 

Thanks! Unvote Verbal, Vote Despot

 

 

 

You got anything for BFG, Jack? He's been increasingly more active over the last 24 hours or so.

Also I hope your recovery is going well, Cory. Praying it's better than my knee. :)

I went back 5 pages and didn't see much. Most recent posts seem pretty solid though like she's actually solving stuff. Some points I disagree with like her opinion on Tina so there's that.

 

 

this seems strange, both from Jack and Clov. Clovs initial question was posted before I posted my catch-up posts, my last post before that was about the horror that is Jedward.  Which was also more than 5 pages ago (if one's being penicity).

 

 

He did the work, you piled on without a word, despite having just said Despot was town.  If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch, you would be one of the first people I would want to look at.

 

Lenlo is town-leaning null for me ATM.  Good points about Tina leading the wagons and you and Despot following (though you were on Csarmi first, before moving to Despot).  I liked his answer in Post 169 about Csarmi being an easier lynch than Jack, too.

 

 

 

First - I picked you because you were the first person on the players list who wasn't particularly vocal at that point.  Jack had made a catch up post so I wanted to see how much attention he paid during his reading to help establish my read on him.  If he came and said he had a firm stance on you, I was going to contest that there wasn't much for him to go on so I would assumed he was trying to give an answer I wanted to hear, rather than what he thought. 

 

His statement about not seeing much satisfied me well enough.

 

 

Bottom part - I know Cory pretty well, so I thought it was entirely possible he was fishing for responses with his vote when it happened.  He then threw it out in the thread and I questioned what he was testing.  He answered satisfactorily and moved off Despot, so it didn't seem overly scummy.  By comparison, if he had left it there without later rationalizing it, it would look far worse to me.

 

Which is sad.

After reading like three of them I think something is off about BFGs big posts. She doesnt ask questions that are hard hitting or relevant. Seems safe.

 

Her question to you in #330 about Csarmi seems pretty relevant at the least. 

 

Who got perma banned, and why? 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

Are you going to ever provide reasoning for your scum stance on Tina and me?  A bunch of people have asked, so it's not like you could have possibly missed it.

[dawnflower8]

Okay, the quote with name thing didn't seem to work.  Will have to deal with the multis.

 

Please unvote before voting again. 

 

Thanks! Unvote Verbal, Vote Despot

 

 

 

You got anything for BFG, Jack? He's been increasingly more active over the last 24 hours or so.

 

Also I hope your recovery is going well, Cory. Praying it's better than my knee. :)

I went back 5 pages and didn't see much. Most recent posts seem pretty solid though like she's actually solving stuff. Some points I disagree with like her opinion on Tina so there's that.

 

 

this seems strange, both from Jack and Clov. Clovs initial question was posted before I posted my catch-up posts, my last post before that was about the horror that is Jedward.  Which was also more than 5 pages ago (if one's being penicity).

 

 

He did the work, you piled on without a word, despite having just said Despot was town.  If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch, you would be one of the first people I would want to look at.

 

Lenlo is town-leaning null for me ATM.  Good points about Tina leading the wagons and you and Despot following (though you were on Csarmi first, before moving to Despot).  I liked his answer in Post 169 about Csarmi being an easier lynch than Jack, too.

 

 

 

First - I picked you because you were the first person on the players list who wasn't particularly vocal at that point.  Jack had made a catch up post so I wanted to see how much attention he paid during his reading to help establish my read on him.  If he came and said he had a firm stance on you, I was going to contest that there wasn't much for him to go on so I would assumed he was trying to give an answer I wanted to hear, rather than what he thought. 

 

His statement about not seeing much satisfied me well enough.

 

 

Bottom part - I know Cory pretty well, so I thought it was entirely possible he was fishing for responses with his vote when it happened.  He then threw it out in the thread and I questioned what he was testing.  He answered satisfactorily and moved off Despot, so it didn't seem overly scummy.  By comparison, if he had left it there without later rationalizing it, it would look far worse to me.

 

Which is sad.

 

After reading like three of them I think something is off about BFGs big posts. She doesnt ask questions that are hard hitting or relevant. Seems safe.

 

Her question to you in #330 about Csarmi seems pretty relevant at the least. 

 

Who got perma banned, and why? 

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

Are you going to ever provide reasoning for your scum stance on Tina and me?  A bunch of people have asked, so it's not like you could have possibly missed it.

Oh, sorry, I was going to post and then forgot...

 

Well, I've never played with you before, I don't think, so I'm not really sure how you generally play. Something about the way you are playing seems scummy, though. (I give such terrible reasons, I'm sorry!)

[Darthe]

Not when I answered it before when she asked and she quoted my answer asking the same question again.

[hazelkrs1]

Back at work, yay. Slept like 500 hours today, and it still wasn't enough.

 

Bout to go back through and respond to some stuff, but really quick for Clov's sake:

 

If you want to show who posted something in the quote where you format it yourself, you actually have to type "quote name=________" where _______ is the name of the person you're trying to quote. So if you wanted to show something I quoted for instance by c/ping, you'd type this-

 

 

[quote name=Despothera]
Whatever you need to paste here
[/quote]

 

Altho I dunno why you wouldn't just use the multiquote. Pretty convenient if you ask me. /shrug

[hazelkrs1]

 

 

 

Think about the other 2 games I've played. I was scum in both of those. And I don't think I'm really playing the same way as I did the other games, am I? Other games I was scum and was contributing more (even though I did joke around a lot in my last game.)

 

*flaps wings and clucks like a chicken*

 

 

This post right here- defending yourself by attempting to use your own meta- only strengthens the scumread I have on you Dawn.

 

Think about it for a sec.

 

How difficult would it be to change your playstyle a bit, after a couple of games as scum, in order to use this exact defense at this point? Not that difficult at all. This makes the point you raised completely moot.

 

Furthermore as a newer player, your meta is much more subject to change than most, but honestly I would contest that your play isn't even all that different. I don't care to compare those games with this one however- in this one, your play has seemed scummy to me. You have pretty much failed to contribute anything to the scumhunt, even tho you've been somewhat active. You extended RVS jokes past the stage where they were relevant. You tried blaming your lack of serious play on your PR, even tho your non-serious play was the reason you got a PR in the first place.

 

So why shouldn't I find you scummy, Dawn?

 

And while we're at it- what do you think of me? Do you think I'm scum? Do you have any confident town reads?

 

What you said about the playstyle is pretty true - especially since, at this point, I am playing worse than I did in my last 2 games (not worse as in scummier, worse as in seeming more new) when I think about it. 

 

I'm not getting very good reads this game. Yes, you are at the top of my list for scum - and not just because you are Team Jacob. If that was the case, I'd probably have unvoted you by now and voted Tina or Clov (the other 2 I have scum reads for) instead. The tone of your posts sounds kind of similar to the tone of someone who happened to be mafia in another game I played.

 

Since 3 seems to be the usual number of scum in a game, I'm guessing that the 3 scum are you, Tina, and Clov. 

 

Honsetly, Csarmi does not seem very scummy to me.

 

Lot of things I don't like about this post, but then a couple that seem eh.... possibly believable.

 

1. You didn't answer a bunch of questions I asked in the post you quoted

2. You say I seem scummy to you, and not "just because" I'm on Team Jacob. Me posting #Team Jacob during the RVS stage should have NOTHING, I mean absolutely ZERO to do with any serious read you have on me. You saying "not just because" makes it seem like me being on Team Jacob would be valid reasoning at all for a serious vote, and it's not even close to valid.

3. My tone sounds "kind of similar to the tone of someone who happened to be mafia in another game". Do you realize how awful of a point this is? By being so vague and not really pointing anything out specifically about MY play, you've just made it harder to be pinned down on your reasoning. It's hard for me to believe you wouldn't even see this as terrible reasoning to think someone is scum in a game.

4. Where was I saying that Csarmi seemed scummy to me? Why are you pointing this out here? And if you think I'm scum, why would you address me like that? If I'm scum, I wouldn't "think" Csarmi is scum either. I'd know his alignment. At the very end of the post you treat me like a townie you disagree with, not someone you think is scum

 

As far as what seems slightly plausible-

 

1. Your reasoning is so bad in this post, I think you would notice that easily as scum. Question is, are you really just that newbish again after 2 relatively good games, or are you playing up your newbishness?

2. Your confusion about the number of scum seems... possibly genuine. 3 is not the "usual" number of scum, no. You're just used to playing basic games, where there are usually 12-15 players mostly. There's generally a 1:3 ratio of scum to town, so 25% of the player pool is usually a safe estimate.

 

This isn't near enough to bump you up into neutral or anything btw. I'm still thinking it's very likely you're scum, and you spitting out Clov out of nowhere makes me think it's a weak distancing attempt.

 

 

Emphasized a potential slip here- Clov might have a priori knowledge that I'm town. He doesn't say if I got mislynched as town or trained and then flipped town, he simply says if I had gotten trained today (and eventually lynched) that he'd be looking at Cory. Looks like he might have just spewed me town and him scum in one precious moment

 

1. I think you and I are operating under somewhat different definitions of the word "trained".  Freight trained, bandwagonned, whatever you want to call it - lots of people jumping on.  That can happen to either scum or town, and because of that, I likely wouldn't be overly concerned with what your alignment was.  I think it's reasonable to say that you have had one of the largest, if not THE largest, case in the game brought against you thus far.  In fact, it's about as in depth as you can really hope to go D1.  IMO that's inviting scum to jump on it if you're town, and if you're not, I would certainly expect a teammate or two to hop on to earn townie points.  

 

Given that Dawn was on you early and had refused to move her vote, I wouldn't assume the scum would be here.

 

Since Darthe was the one really going out of his way to build the case, it's probably not him.

 

That leaves Cory among those who had voted for you.

 

 

Bold- I disagree entirely with your notion that I try staying alive as long as possible as scum and don't trust my teammates. I can prove this as well if you like.

 

Since it's under discussion, my mafia meta is actually not to care about survival whatsoever, and I'm pretty sure I've explained this to Darthe before. I'm generally too high profile to hope I'll never be viewed by an investigative role or targeted by a Vig of some kind or something, so I've tailored my play accordingly to still allow me to be affective. I actually will start the game expecting to die at some point, so I'll prepare for that eventuality by tying myself to townies and sowing as much wifom as I can so that town chases a bunch of dead ends looking for my teammates after I die. Again, I'm pretty sure me and Darthe have discussed this before- that we are lodestones for PR's.

 

2. It's certainly not a sample size large enough to be of any significance, but in the one game I've played with you as scum, I didn't get that vibe from you at all.  IIRC you were pretty busy at the time, so that could account for it, but you were one of the more reserved players until later in the game.

 

 

Like I just explained above, I don't care whether or not I get lynched as town or mafia. If I'm town, I think it will usually be because of a derp on town's part. If I'm scum I hope that I left behind enough wifom to help my team out.

 

3. Bold is terribad, and if you don't care in any case, I don't care to not Vote Despot.  Best case scenario, your repeated misrepresentation and bandwagon hopping is because you don't really care who gets lynched today.  Worst case scenario, I'm lynching somebody who doesn't care enough to put forth an effort to defend themselves?  Good enough odds for me.

 

If you are/were town, you could continue voting Tina for all I cared, I just would have wanted to see you trying to garner support for the train then in that case. The manner in which you have followed up on your reads this game does not look organic to me, does not look like you trying to actually hunt scum.

 

4. You have now seemingly accused (at least) three different people of not actually hunting scum.  One was me, when I was questioning you earlier in the phase.  You have done so with Jack to Tina.  And it looks like you're getting at with your question to Lenlo about pushing Tina versus putting for Tina.

 

Why is it only scumhunting when it's towards players you're okay with?

 

1. Others are buying this explanation it seems, I am not however. The way you worded the slip DEFINITELY made it seem like you were saying you would have been suspicious of him after my flip. Otherwise, if it's just for the placement of his vote, there really shouldn't have been anything to wait for. You should have been going @ him then. Instead, it looked like you were laying the foundation to leave him as a suspect for later. I'll fetch the quote again in a sec to illustrate my point.

 

2. You're right, def not a large sample size or really a good example at all. It wasn't that I was busy during that game, it was because the restart had completely sapped my motivation that game. As did the whole role pm discussion thing. That and I seem to be out of my element off-site lately, which stinks but eh whatchagonnado. Just about anyone familiar with my meta here can read that game and tell you that's not how I normally play as scum.

 

3.

 

You're trying to make me out like I don't care about playing the game at all, which is completely absurd. No, I don't care much whether I get lynched as town or scum. I just don't like fearmongering about my own lynch. Imo, town should already know that they risk losing a valuable asset if they're wrong on me. Overall tho, if I get lynched, it's not the end of the world for town. They can still get info from my flip, can see how it all went down.

 

More importantly, I just don't worry about defending myself much at all. I feel actions speak louder than words. Instead of saying I'm looking for scum so you shouldn't lynch me, I'd rather actually look for scum and let my actions speak for themselves. Sadly, there are many who still suffer from extreme confbias when playing with me, so they might never see that I'm town. But again, that's not really my top priority. If I put forth pressure on a bunch of people which leads to more interactions, then town can still benefit from my actions after I'm dead even if no one goes back and evaluates my reads.

 

4. See, you brough Lenlo up. Then why is it that you gloss over the fact that I was initially DEFENDING him to Tina, who thought he seemed questionable for his vote on her. Even tho I have Tina as a town read, I felt like Lenlo had followed up well on his vote on her so seemed more likely to be town to me. Your point here is completely invalid.

 

 

Clov - I don´t understand your reason for voting Des. Is it because he said that he expects to die early? 

 

About the train thing - I can take that explanation. 

 

That, and a combination of everything he's done this game - following you on lynches and blindly defending you ("buddying up", as he'd put it) while completely blowing off somewhat valid concerns that Lenlo and Jack have raised, seemingly contradicting himself, train hopping, lynching me for questioning him earlier, and his overall reaction to pressure.  For example, the eyeroll post in response to Darthe's first big post.

 

The fact he claims not to care if he's lynched is just icing on the cake.

 

I followed her on lynches because I like to get voting activity up, and I wanted to assist in getting reactions and get the game going. Not scummy.

 

I didn't "blindly defend" Tina. Never did. In fact, early on I indicated that altho I found Tina's #gamestarter to be protown in general, I was considering that she might have done the move for towncred. After a while tho I was able to strengthen my read on her which is when I started defending her. Not scummy.

 

I didn't blow off any concerns Jack or Lenlo raised. Jack keeps saying the same stuff, and Lenlo said some stuff in his last post before that made me consider going back to reread the situation. I said so but said I still didn't think Tina was the best lynch today. Not scummy.

 

Where do I contradict myself? And how does that make me scum?

 

Train hopping isn't even CLOSE to scummy. Town are much more likely to change their mind than scum are.

 

I didn't vote you for questioning me. I voted you cause you seemed to be nudging. Nudging is a lot worse than questioning imo. Not scummy.

 

My "overall reaction to pressure" LAWLZ!!!! Can you get any weaker or more vague with your casing of me? I rolled my eyes at Darthe cause that's exactly what I did while reading his post. Not scummy.

 

I DON'T care if I'm lynched. If I'm still working at trying to find scum, I'm doing my job. If other townies don't try to reevaluate their read on me and end up lynching me, they didn't do theirs. Not scummy.

 

So basically you didn't point out a single scummy thing on me. Try again Clov.

 

Also, 100% caught up.  Today was busier than I expected - Mon mornings are my usual weekend catchup.

 

 

Is that really all the Verbal action we can expect to get this game?

 

So why were you voting Csarmi?

 

 

My reaction is that you voted someone after I just cased them without providing any comment was not okay.

 

 

He did the work, you piled on without a word, despite having just said Despot was town.  If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch, you would be one of the first people I would want to look at.

 

Lenlo is town-leaning null for me ATM.  Good points about Tina leading the wagons and you and Despot following (though you were on Csarmi first, before moving to Despot).  I liked his answer in Post 169 about Csarmi being an easier lynch than Jack, too.

 

 

I don't understand what you mean by this. From your later post I'm assuming you mean if Des was lynched, regardless of his flip you'd be looking at Cory because his vote looks the worst? But why does Des's lynch make a difference? If the vote is scummy regardless of Des's eventual flip why aren't you pushing Cory more for the vote?

 

To answer your question to me: I was bandwagoning Tina for reactions. And I also thought why not, he had been quiet so far this game.

 

I love your point against Clov tho. Similar to what I thought when seeing his explanation. I'd like to see him answer you as well.

 

BFG 2 things

1) Why would scum vote Des? Ive already said it, distancing. It doesnt look like Des will get lynched today so its a safe vote to distance from a teammate if she is scum.

2) I dont know her meta. I barely know anyones meta. I dont like to pay attention to it or use it.  Yeah I know some things like Jack always votes spot 11, Des is aggressive and Darthe is just plain crazy but thats about it.

 

Wait so you still think I'm scum Lenlo? This doesn't jive whatsoever with how you were interacting with me earlier. Major FOS @ Lenlo.

[Lenlo]

No I dont think your scum, but BFG asked why Tina would vote you if she was scum and you were defending her. I was explaining the reasoning of why. 

 

Now im not discounting the possibility of you being scum, its entirely possible, but for now I dont believe it.

[hazelkrs1]

Here's the original quote in all it's glorious unadulterated beauty:

 

 

Looked fine to me 

 

Glad to see some of your Clov-Paranoia shine through, but the fact that I didn't even give a supporting quote should have sent a warning bell at least to you.

 

Welcome to the higher end of my nulls, though I'd really prefer you to be town after the last few circles you've run on me. What are your thoughts on Lenlo and Darthe this game?

 

 

Darthe is my strongest town read at this point.  The only thing scummy about Jack to me thus far is his retaliation vote on Tina.  Despot was trying to make something out of nothing IMO with the whyme fryme, so Darthe was right to argue against it.  Not only scum focuses on defending themselves - anybody who realizes they're town, and lynching town is bad, should question unexplained lynches against them.

 

On top of that, I think Darthe's train of thought on you is perfectly fair.

 

 

My reaction is that you voted someone after I just cased them without providing any comment was not okay.

 

 

He did the work, you piled on without a word, despite having just said Despot was town.  If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch, you would be one of the first people I would want to look at.

 

Lenlo is town-leaning null for me ATM.  Good points about Tina leading the wagons and you and Despot following (though you were on Csarmi first, before moving to Despot).  I liked his answer in Post 169 about Csarmi being an easier lynch than Jack, too.

 

 

Again, not buying your explanation, especially not after reviewing the wording again.

 

"If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch" CLEARLY indicates you waiting to see if I got lynched... indicating that you WOULD  care what my alignment was in regards to Cory.

 

Otherwise, what is there to wait for? Why not attack Cory for his vote on me THEN, instead of make it look like you would go after him if I flipped town?

 

Also interesting how you defend Lenlo here. Tina might have been right after all.

[hazelkrs1]

No I dont think your scum, but BFG asked why Tina would vote you if she was scum and you were defending her. I was explaining the reasoning of why. 

 

Now im not discounting the possibility of you being scum, its entirely possible, but for now I dont believe it.

 

Ahh okay. Fair enough, FOS retracted.

 

What's your opinion on Clov's response to me pointing out that scumslip?

[BFG]

 

Salami is more likely town than mafia anyways, but I would say that that is exacerbated from the attempt of that same group to form a train on him for reasoning that, as I pointed out, literally did not exist.  They didn't cite anything.  Added onto that the fact that he was the latest of a defacto train switch and the potential for that to be mafia led and I would say that he goes from the ~75% we all have to ~90% to be town.

 

What's given you a town read on Csarmi besides the train on him at this point?  Additionally on the train you have Des, Cory, Tina as mafia for voting together and Des is your strongest read, yet Des has defended Tina and to a certain extent Cory, something I don't recall him ever doing as Mafia?

 

I had hoped for more than this des. You once again have greatly exxadurated segments too see how people own up in reactions too them.

 

Which sections do you think are exaggerated.

 

 

 

Not when I answered it before when she asked and she quoted my answer asking the same question again.

I'm asking why you think Csarmi is Town other than the train on him, your response in there is about the train. If you mean the part where you said the case was exaggerated, then that explains why you think he isn't mafia, not why you think he's likely Town. Also can you explain why you have Des as mafia with people he's defended? And again which parts of Des's cases are exaggerated?

 

@Lenlo, I think I mixed up some of your opinions on Des/Tina with some of Darthe's sorry

[BFG]

 

 

 

You got anything for BFG, Jack? He's been increasingly more active over the last 24 hours or so.

 

Also I hope your recovery is going well, Cory. Praying it's better than my knee. :)

I went back 5 pages and didn't see much. Most recent posts seem pretty solid though like she's actually solving stuff. Some points I disagree with like her opinion on Tina so there's that.

 

 

this seems strange, both from Jack and Clov. Clovs initial question was posted before I posted my catch-up posts, my last post before that was about the horror that is Jedward.  Which was also more than 5 pages ago (if one's being penicity).

He did the work, you piled on without a word, despite having just said Despot was town.  If he ended up getting trained today from that lynch, you would be one of the first people I would want to look at.

 

Lenlo is town-leaning null for me ATM.  Good points about Tina leading the wagons and you and Despot following (though you were on Csarmi first, before moving to Despot).  I liked his answer in Post 169 about Csarmi being an easier lynch than Jack, too.

 

 

First - I picked you because you were the first person on the players list who wasn't particularly vocal at that point.  Jack had made a catch up post so I wanted to see how much attention he paid during his reading to help establish my read on him.  If he came and said he had a firm stance on you, I was going to contest that there wasn't much for him to go on so I would assumed he was trying to give an answer I wanted to hear, rather than what he thought. 

 

His statement about not seeing much satisfied me well enough.

 

 

Bottom part - I know Cory pretty well, so I thought it was entirely possible he was fishing for responses with his vote when it happened.  He then threw it out in the thread and I questioned what he was testing.  He answered satisfactorily and moved off Despot, so it didn't seem overly scummy.  By comparison, if he had left it there without later rationalizing it, it would look far worse to me.

 

But he'd already unvoted by the time you made that post, or are you assuming he'd have jumped back on again?