[Basic] The Matrix - Game Over

nervositee · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 5:17 PM, TGlems said:

Yates - 0

GoldeneyesND - 1 post

Krak - 2 posts

Basel, Tina, Theodora - 3 posts

Added

Tyler Glembo · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 5:34 PM, Basel Gill said:
Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

Echo...echo...echo...

GoldeneyesND · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 5:42 PM, nervositee said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:17 PM, TGlems said:

Yates - 0

GoldeneyesND - 1 post

Krak - 2 posts

Basel, Tina, Theodora - 3 posts

Added

TGLEMS I have literally never seen this tactic used by town. All it shows (along with vos' subsequent update including Yates) is that 6 people in this game have 3 or fewer posts. I also dislike people who jump on someone for "trying to seem town" and I find it interesting that you and Darthe both used this strategy within a relatively short amount of time. It makes you both look bad jumping to these conclusions before page 5 of a game. How exactly do you expect to get the game going by fos'ing people who actually post based on an admittedly subjective feeling? You're essential punishing participation selfishly to look good and that's anti-town.

Vos, what are your reads so far and why? I can't tell if your game is simply nonsensical or if you're a newbie trying to work through things aloud, but you're headed for a D1 lynch unless you pick it up.

Basel has played with Theo and is aware of her meta of fos'ing without voting, as it consistently gets her in hot water. In fact, the reason you're voting for her is what has me leaning town on her. With all the people in this game who haven't played with each other and being aware of this yourself, voting her for this reason is scummy. But, no need to vote you for this, as I've uncovered a gem in already.

vote tglems

and omgus post in 3,2,1...

Tyler Glembo · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:19 PM, GoldeneyesND said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:42 PM, nervositee said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:17 PM, TGlems said:

Yates - 0

GoldeneyesND - 1 post

Krak - 2 posts

Basel, Tina, Theodora - 3 posts

Added

TGLEMS I have literally never seen this tactic used by town. All it shows (along with vos' subsequent update including Yates) is that 6 people in this game have 3 or fewer posts. I also dislike people who jump on someone for "trying to seem town" and I find it interesting that you and Darthe both used this strategy within a relatively short amount of time. It makes you both look bad jumping to these conclusions before page 5 of a game. How exactly do you expect to get the game going by fos'ing people who actually post based on an admittedly subjective feeling? You're essential punishing participation selfishly to look good and that's anti-town.

Vos, what are your reads so far and why? I can't tell if your game is simply nonsensical or if you're a newbie trying to work through things aloud, but you're headed for a D1 lynch unless you pick it up.

Basel has played with Theo and is aware of her meta of fos'ing without voting, as it consistently gets her in hot water. In fact, the reason you're voting for her is what has me leaning town on her. With all the people in this game who haven't played with each other and being aware of this yourself, voting her for this reason is scummy. But, no need to vote you for this, as I've uncovered a gem in already.

vote tglems

and omgus post in 3,2,1...

So you've never played on DM before? Literally every game here there is discussion about lurkers, lurking being a playstyle, how we should lynch lurkers, etc. I don't think we've played together, but I consistently advocate for killing lurkers, whether town or scum.

As for the rest of what you said, it is garbage. Except for the point about Basel. That one is legit.

Tyler Glembo · January 25, 2014

Also, James Bond, everyone should post a lot. And everyone should be pushed for their posts. Increased participation along with setting fire to the brush can only help town.

GoldeneyesND · January 25, 2014

Oh really, EVERY game is about lurkers? On day 1? When half of the people in the game are barely checking in? We have not played together, but apparently it's not too hard to wind you up...

Nolder · January 25, 2014

Votecount

Err - Nervositee, Despothera, Darthe(3)

Theodora - Tglems, Basel (2)

Yates - Tina (1)

Nervositee - Andrej (1)

Tglems - Goldeneyes (1)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140127T18&p0=137

nervositee · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:19 PM, GoldeneyesND said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:42 PM, nervositee said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:17 PM, TGlems said:

Yates - 0

GoldeneyesND - 1 post

Krak - 2 posts

Basel, Tina, Theodora - 3 posts

Added

TGLEMS I have literally never seen this tactic used by town. All it shows (along with vos' subsequent update including Yates) is that 6 people in this game have 3 or fewer posts. I also dislike people who jump on someone for "trying to seem town" and I find it interesting that you and Darthe both used this strategy within a relatively short amount of time. It makes you both look bad jumping to these conclusions before page 5 of a game. How exactly do you expect to get the game going by fos'ing people who actually post based on an admittedly subjective feeling? You're essential punishing participation selfishly to look good and that's anti-town.

Vos, what are your reads so far and why? I can't tell if your game is simply nonsensical or if you're a newbie trying to work through things aloud, but you're headed for a D1 lynch unless you pick it up.

What? Scum will lurk on D1 and keep their heads down as much as they can. Makes sense.

I hardly have conclusive reads on anyone yet, as it's still pretty fluffy around here. You calling me out there and "threatening" me with a day 1 lynch just makes it look like you diverting attention from the fact you were called out for a low post count. It's also a bit funny.

Also, your "not too hard to wind you up"-comment (directed at TG) is pretty funny considering you got pretty wound up by the post-count-list (which was just that), while TG still seems pretty calm and composed.

Theodora · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 3:26 PM, TGlems said:

I think we should leave Darthe be for now but keep him in mind. He's been miller so many times that I'd been wondering if sooner or later he would fakeclaim it on D1 in some game when he was really scum. But that's something that when you look closer, is really nuts for scum to do. It's too risky that town actually would lynch the alleged miller to get the wifom out of the way, and scum will start off down one. I'm going to say the second bit outweighs the first one, and call Darthe tentative town.

This comment looks like you had nothing to say but still wanted to be a part of the discussion. Trying too hard?

On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:
yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

Agreed about testing his claim.

On 1/25/2014 at 8:59 AM, Theodora said:

There is something like a "Let's save Darthe" club already. Considering his reputation he and Despo always get viewed the first night (if there is a cop), so a Miller role is a good insurance for a scum to live another day.

AJ and Despo - both being helpful and provide explanations to the new players about roles. The thing that pings me is that I have seen such meta from AJ every time I have played with him, so I am leaning townie for now, but with Despo, he was most helpful when he was scum. I am not going to bold my joke vote though, as I think it's too early and he hasn't picked up full speed. So hasn't Golden, so null there.

Vos - I don't know how you play but if you read your own posts, you will see it is like going into two opposite directions with your conclusions, therefore a bit of a mess and not that helpful. I am leaning town on you for now; maybe, it is too early in the game.

Vote Theodora Are you just trying to get townie cred by looking like you're being nice to a newer player? You point out why Vos' statement looks bad, calling it a "mess" and "unhelpful", then say you are leaning town?

On 1/25/2014 at 9:31 AM, nervositee said:

1. Hmm?

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open.

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

You're being led around here.

TGlens, I stated pretty clearly that I cannot be so sure as to put a vote on anyone at this point (not all of the people have even joined) but I am leaning more townie on Vos as he is trying to scum-hunt but myaybe in order to catch all the details, he is going in two opposite directions. To me this is not helpful. This is not necessarily scummy at this point.

I don't like placing votes ten times per day without a specific reason; than changing them to no avail. Like you are fishing and you are waiting for a fish to grab the bite and start a train. Well, you got Basel.

Andrej · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 9:31 AM, nervositee said:

1. Hmm?

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open.

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

1. Hm? I was saying your joke on GE wasn't something that I found suspicious and therefore wasn't relevant to why I was voting you.

2. Okay, so reading this I think it was more a matter of how you said it that tipped me off. I can agree with you on the flexibility thing early on. By hard stance I'm saying that generally I feel it's okay to say that you think/feel someone is a certain alignment if you can support it.

3. I'm not sure what you're trying to express here.

I like your response here, pretty level-headed and I think you explained yourself well in regards to why I was suspicious. I don't necessarily feel you need to provide yourself wiggle room as town, but people have different ways of playing/interpreting this game.

unvote

On 1/25/2014 at 3:54 PM, Darthe said:

On 1/25/2014 at 4:47 AM, Err said:

k lets get the dynamics of the games figured out.....

with 13 players..... i think one godfather, 2 mafias, doc, inspector, miller (?).... for a basic game can there be more non-vanilla roles?

yes i agree we might end up testing Darths claim by lynching him at some stage in the game.... but we could leave it for day 2 or 3.... there are 13 players alive so i dont think its a desperate situation to test his claim today

This whole thing deserves a vote. It reads as way too in the know, like the player wanted to say something townite but didn't quite know how to so he gave up some info about his team.

unvote vote Err

Are you saying that him mentioning a GF is a slip? I didn't really see it that way.

GoldeneyesND · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:44 PM, nervositee said:

On 1/25/2014 at 6:19 PM, GoldeneyesND said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:42 PM, nervositee said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:17 PM, TGlems said:

Yates - 0

GoldeneyesND - 1 post

Krak - 2 posts

Basel, Tina, Theodora - 3 posts

Added

TGLEMS I have literally never seen this tactic used by town. All it shows (along with vos' subsequent update including Yates) is that 6 people in this game have 3 or fewer posts. I also dislike people who jump on someone for "trying to seem town" and I find it interesting that you and Darthe both used this strategy within a relatively short amount of time. It makes you both look bad jumping to these conclusions before page 5 of a game. How exactly do you expect to get the game going by fos'ing people who actually post based on an admittedly subjective feeling? You're essential punishing participation selfishly to look good and that's anti-town.

Vos, what are your reads so far and why? I can't tell if your game is simply nonsensical or if you're a newbie trying to work through things aloud, but you're headed for a D1 lynch unless you pick it up.

What? Scum will lurk on D1 and keep their heads down as much as they can. Makes sense.

I hardly have conclusive reads on anyone yet, as it's still pretty fluffy around here. You calling me out there and "threatening" me with a day 1 lynch just makes it look like you diverting attention from the fact you were called out for a low post count. It's also a bit funny.

Also, your "not too hard to wind you up"-comment (directed at TG) is pretty funny considering you got pretty wound up by the post-count-list (which was just that), while TG still seems pretty calm and composed.

1- Awful. Half the people in this game around really in this game yet and you're pointing to participation as an indicator of being town or not. Do you see why scum who HAVE been posting would use a VC to justify the very weak argument you're putting forth?

2- Your posts make little sense and you're confusing. Err has votes, but he's I don't see him being as bad as everyone thinks and he is capable of putting together a solid argument. I'm not threatening you, I was giving you a heads up that when he sheds votes they could come your way if you didn't start making more sense. Note that I am not voting you and I didn't fos you, I was TRYING to be helpful. That's the last time I'll do that.

3- You've not played with me, so I'll pat you on the head and chuckle if you think THAT was me wound up.

Andrej · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 5:32 PM, Err said:
well yes... i m trying to figure out the game dynamics.... its always always helpful... i did the same thing in the previous game of which u were a part of too.... so i am going to continue to keep guessing and putting theories to figure things out....

Were you addressing the bolded to Darthe or Des? I was going to point this out that I had seen you do mostly the same thing in the last game you played in (that I was modding). The issue here isn't that you are speculating but that you included a mafia aligned role that we don't actually have evidence for yet, which could indicate that you are aware of its presence although the rest of us wouldn't be.

Why would you assume there is a GF in the set-up?

On 1/25/2014 at 5:34 PM, Basel Gill said:
Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

Bolded: Are you saying that you agree with Theo's opinion regarding Vos but are voting her for not voting him although she pointed it out?

nervositee · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:47 PM, Andrej said:

On 1/25/2014 at 9:31 AM, nervositee said:

1. Hmm?

2. Yes. It was an ambiguous statement, because the way you're playing can strike both ways. I still mentioned it, not to claim you were this or that, but to offer my observation, for now but also for the future when we have more to go on. The whole point is to allow wiggle-room, because this early in the game we don't know anything. So more than anything, town should be über-flexible early game when things switch up fast. Taking a "hard stance" on page 4 seems more scummy to me than to observe and leave all options open.

3. You are still jumping me from making jokey comments and then—when pointed out they seemed to intertwined with the hame—retracting/explaining them. It still strikes me as rash. Not scum-rash though. But still rash

If it helps, I'll offer my "hard stance" opinion: AJ = Town. While I think that he is being overly active and grasping at straws I think he has done a good job of getting the game started, getting people to actually participate and do some active scumhunt. I know what I am, so his hunt for me seems either misdirected or scummy, but looking objectively at it I can see it. I think if you were scum you'd keep your head down a bit more, and especially not be the vocal forerunner of a mislynch D1.

1. Hm? I was saying your joke on GE wasn't something that I found suspicious and therefore wasn't relevant to why I was voting you.

2. Okay, so reading this I think it was more a matter of how you said it that tipped me off. I can agree with you on the flexibility thing early on. By hard stance I'm saying that generally I feel it's okay to say that you think/feel someone is a certain alignment if you can support it.

3. I'm not sure what you're trying to express here.

I like your response here, pretty level-headed and I think you explained yourself well in regards to why I was suspicious. I don't necessarily feel you need to provide yourself wiggle room as town, but people have different ways of playing/interpreting this game.

unvote

1. Ah, thanks for the clarification

3. Haha, don't blame you, that was was a poor sentence.

I meant that even after I tried to explain myself, and agree that it wasn't clear enough it had nothing to do with proper gameplay, you still jumped on me. Rash might also have been the wrong word, more opportunistic. But I also think we just got tangled in a bit of a misunderstanding.

2. and last comment. I think we are on the same page, but might use different wording/terminology. I'll pay a bit more attention

Nolder · January 25, 2014

WolfbrotherKronos will be replacing Yates effective immediately.

All votes on Yates have been cleared.

Nolder · January 25, 2014

Votecount

Err - Nervositee, Despothera, Darthe (3)

Theodora - Tglems, Basel (2)

Tglems - Goldeneyes (1)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140127T18&p0=137

Darthe · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:36 PM, GoldeneyesND said:

Oh really, EVERY game is about lurkers? On day 1? When half of the people in the game are barely checking in? We have not played together, but apparently it's not too hard to wind you up...

Scummy deflection and instigative response. unvote vote GE

nervositee · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:53 PM, GoldeneyesND said:

1- Awful. Half the people in this game around really in this game yet and you're pointing to participation as an indicator of being town or not. Do you see why scum who HAVE been posting would use a VC to justify the very weak argument you're putting forth?

2- Your posts make little sense and you're confusing. Err has votes, but he's I don't see him being as bad as everyone thinks and he is capable of putting together a solid argument. I'm not threatening you, I was giving you a heads up that when he sheds votes they could come your way if you didn't start making more sense. Note that I am not voting you and I didn't fos you, I was TRYING to be helpful. That's the last time I'll do that.

3- You've not played with me, so I'll pat you on the head and chuckle if you think THAT was me wound up.

1. Again, wtf? Who has used it as an argument? Who has used it as a scumtell? Who has done more than to post it? Oh, you. no one else.

2. Your tone reeks of passive-aggressiveness

3. Ehm, ok, if you say so.

unvote vote Golden

WolfbrotherKronos · January 25, 2014

Reading now.

hazelkrs1 · January 25, 2014

Meh I think both TG and Vos look scummier than Golden atm. Inactivity is a dumb thing to push for at this point in the game. Could be fake scumhunting on one or both of their parts.

Guess we're not on the same wavelength after all Darthe hehe. /shrug

Oh and to whomever it was that tried to say I was saying g we should def lynch Darthe today (Err mebbe?), gj on reading comprehension fail there. I said Darthe is a perfect backup Lynch for today. We scumhunt like we normally would any D1, try to find a good scummy candidate, but if we fail to come up with one we lynch Darthe instead of a last minute pile on or a NL.

Again, best case scenario with a Darthe lynch- dead scum. Worst case scenario? The loss of a negative utility role (good for town), and the removal of some wifom (obv also good for town). And the numbers at this point don't really make a lynch on a Miller claim any worse- if anything it would prob be the opposite.

hazelkrs1 · January 25, 2014

Liking the voting activity btw, and still liking my vote on Err. Play on.

OH YEAH!

Got a brand new freaking car! Woot woot woot!!!!!

GoldeneyesND · January 25, 2014

Yeah Darthe, cause I'm not known to poke at people to see if they slip- pffffft, you know better than this, you've played with me in too many games to vote me for instigating.

Vos is such a hot mess. For clarity's sake, I'm aggressive and rarely passive. If he's scum he's WAY too easy a lynch, I'd expect his teammates to do a better job coaching him. Also, you need to reformat your vote on me. Not even knowing how to vote is fairly awful.

Tgelms- How can you agree with my post about Basel (he's misrepping meta by voting theo for fos'ing without a vote) yet still have your vote on Theo and not on Basel? It's too early to push voting inactives. My vote on you is a policy vote for Fos'ing inactives day 1.Who should I be voting for if not you? Basel? Theo's null at present for me. Vos is stumbling around in the dark. Darthe is instigating and has already assured himself an early exit. AJ is town to me. The rest of the people have little to no gameplay to put a vote on.

Congrats Des! That's awesome.

WolfbrotherKronos · January 25, 2014

Thoughts on Players so far:

Players
Andrej - From what I see, he's playing his normal game

Tina - quiet - typical for her D1, questioning a lot - seems town
Basel - Null - will probably change based on his response to AJ's question - parroted TG's statement, but I don't have issues with parroting.
Darthe - I'm belieiving his Miller claim - I remember playing in a game with him (LotR in BT I believe) in which he stated he thinks Miller should claim right away.
nervositee - Don't understand most of what he is saying - leaning mafia
Xthrax - Welcome to the game, null
Krakalakachkn - Hasn't said much, no read
Theodora - I've not played with her, she's newer, could go either way on her right now, want to see how things progress on this one.
Err - possible slip up on mentioning the game set-up, leaning mafia
Tglems - I understand your position on lurking, but don't agree with lynching quiet types - not saying much is legit play style - also - in a game like this (where several have not posted much), how do you decide who to go after
Despothera - Leaning town on him
Goldeneyes - Also one I could go either way on - watching how he progresses

That said, I think our best chance is vos for now.

vote vos

WolfbrotherKronos · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 9:50 PM, Despothera said:

Liking the voting activity btw, and still liking my vote on Err. Play on.

OH YEAH!

Got a brand new freaking car! Woot woot woot!!!!!

Congrats - I'm jealous lol.

nervositee · January 25, 2014

I'm gonna start from page 1 and do a re-read now. Including myself. I mainly stand by everything I've said, but if people read through and doesn't quite understand what I'm saying I should probably look over and see whats up. I'll be back with the results ;)

Basel Gill · January 25, 2014

On 1/25/2014 at 6:19 PM, GoldeneyesND said:

Basel has played with Theo and is aware of her meta of fos'ing without voting, as it consistently gets her in hot water. In fact, the reason you're voting for her is what has me leaning town on her. With all the people in this game who haven't played with each other and being aware of this yourself, voting her for this reason is scummy. But, no need to vote you for this, as I've uncovered a gem in already.

vote tglems

and omgus post in 3,2,1...

On 1/25/2014 at 6:57 PM, Andrej said:

On 1/25/2014 at 5:34 PM, Basel Gill said:
Vote Thea. If you think that someone is posting conflicting conclusions, being a mess and unhelpful, then why aren't you voting that person? That counts as a scumtell in my book, and I'm finding it really weird that it doesn't ping for you.

Bolded: Are you saying that you agree with Theo's opinion regarding Vos but are voting her for not voting him although she pointed it out?

Both of you seem to be making the same misread of what I said. FOSing a person without voting them is one thing... FOSing them and then calling them town is something else. If she had given the list of stuff that she had issues with Vos about, and then said it pinged her or made her think he was scum but not voted, then I would feel that she wanted to hear a reply from him. Or maybe she wanted to hear what other people thought of her idea. Maybe she just wanted more data; there's nothing wrong in my book with simply wanting more info on someone. Instead she gave reasons why Vos was acting scummy, and then said she felt he was town.

[Basic] The Matrix - Game Over

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