Clash of Divinity - Advanced Mafia - Day 7 - Reckoning

[GoldeneyesND]

Your call. I intend to press on the Rags/Darthe festering sore until it pops 

[Tommyrod]

Please, by all means, press. I need help solving this game.

[GoldeneyesND]

Rags- I've read your criticisms of Darthe's play and we both agree he's not completely honest. My question is: why would scum offer to essentially sacrifice themselves to lynch a VT? If it was to shut you up, why didn't you get NK'd last night? It seems scum Darthe would have been better served doing nearly ANYTHING besides essentially engaging in a Mexican standoff with you. Your comments didn't get Turin killed, the cop read did.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Official Vote Count

 

Darthe (1/5): Rag

 

Rag (1/5): Darthe

 

Hallia (1/5): Dice

 

Not voting: Hallia, Ley, Dap, Goldy, Tommy, GF

 

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[dicetosser1]

the one option you left out golden is we lynch rags he flips scum we belkieve darthe  who was already recruited.

 

 

thats what worries me

[GoldeneyesND]

the one option you left out golden is we lynch rags he flips scum we belkieve darthe  who was already recruited.

 

 

thats what worries me

You're correct. We still lynch scum though. I think it has to be one of these two today and logic dictates Rags.

[dicetosser1]

true

 

unvote vote Rags

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Official Vote Count

 

Darthe (1/5): Rag

 

Rag (2/5): Darthe, Dice

 

 

Not voting: Hallia, Ley, Dap, Goldy, Tommy, GF

 

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Leyrann]

So.. we have both the cop and the role cop without investigation results.

 

Yet nobody bothered to block the vig.

 

Hmmmmmmm?????

 

That sure is interesting. I'm not sure if I trust that Vig though. What if you're a god and claimed vig as a cover for your killing actions? I believe I said it before already - and if I didn't I say it now - while your playstyle looked great, I definatly thought it possible for a mafia to go in guns blazing and pull everyone with him before they start thinking for themselves.

 

 

Isn't that simply more reason to vote Rags and end the Rags vs Darthe wifom once and for all?

This is truly awful.

 

It is now awful to get a guarenteed scum today or tomorrow?

 

 

Rags, what faction are you now? Help me figure out this game.

 

I'd lynch Darthe. I'm finding both Darthe and Dice hard to believe at this point. If I had to guess, I'd say the roleblocker (if one exists) is town, so I don't see a town roleblocker blocking both "cops" last night. 

 

This is a completely fake post.  From the beginning, where you ask what faction someone is as if they will ever answer with anything other than town, to the "help me figure out this game" to the "Hard to believe" bit and "Don't see a town roleblocker blocking BOTH "cops" last night" bit.  

 

A) people never claim anything other than town or third party.  Asking that is just setup.  

B) Assuming a roleblocker is town and then calling them town after is leading.

C) if said roleblocker did exist then assuming it could block both cops is logical fallacy, which is to say that Tom is using this to push his beliefs onto other people

 

Combine this with the fact that Tom did not have the vig shot he claimed to yesterday, my failed view, and the fact that his supposed vig kill is no more reliable than the actions any of us may have submitted  and I strongly suspect that Tom is not a vig at all.  That last night's kill was the work of his cultafia team.  Him and Rag.

 

 I can further show Tom to be playing in a way that does not fit with his town MO because Tom is attempting to use the fact that Turin sided with me as means to get me lynched.  This is, in fact, null because if this game is multi-cultafia then any leader of a cultafia who believed a PR found another member would wholeheartedly support them.  

 

Here is the final piece though.  Tom says he is a night vig now.  He had major suspects day one.  Why did he not kill them or claim the kill from then when he claimed this one?  It cannot be reconciled anymore than Rag's failing to reveal or even defend himself before Tom did so near the end of yesterday.

 

 

I got a bad view on another player.  If I am correct then Rag is another leader and Tom is working for him.  Perhaps an N1 recruit.  You all vote Rag, if he flips town then you have me clear as mafia and can lynch me.  This angle serves me no gain, especially not the one Rag argued (that I was doing it to defend Turin) because Turin is dead and because Rag wasn't a threat to Turin when I revealed and attempted to get Rag killed.

 

I repeat, Vote Rag

 

 

I believe this to be a great post.

 

 

 

Rags, what faction are you now? Help me figure out this game.

 

I'd lynch Darthe. I'm finding both Darthe and Dice hard to believe at this point. If I had to guess, I'd say the roleblocker (if one exists) is town, so I don't see a town roleblocker blocking both "cops" last night. 

 

This is a completely fake post.  From the beginning, where you ask what faction someone is as if they will ever answer with anything other than town, to the "help me figure out this game" to the "Hard to believe" bit and "Don't see a town roleblocker blocking BOTH "cops" last night" bit.  

 

A) people never claim anything other than town or third party.  Asking that is just setup.  

B) Assuming a roleblocker is town and then calling them town after is leading.

C) if said roleblocker did exist then assuming it could block both cops is logical fallacy, which is to say that Tom is using this to push his beliefs onto other people

 

Combine this with the fact that Tom did not have the vig shot he claimed to yesterday, my failed view, and the fact that his supposed vig kill is no more reliable than the actions any of us may have submitted  and I strongly suspect that Tom is not a vig at all.  That last night's kill was the work of his cultafia team.  Him and Rag.

 

 I can further show Tom to be playing in a way that does not fit with his town MO because Tom is attempting to use the fact that Turin sided with me as means to get me lynched.  This is, in fact, null because if this game is multi-cultafia then any leader of a cultafia who believed a PR found another member would wholeheartedly support them.  

 

Here is the final piece though.  Tom says he is a night vig now.  He had major suspects day one.  Why did he not kill them or claim the kill from then when he claimed this one?  It cannot be reconciled anymore than Rag's failing to reveal or even defend himself before Tom did so near the end of yesterday.

 

 

I got a bad view on another player.  If I am correct then Rag is another leader and Tom is working for him.  Perhaps an N1 recruit.  You all vote Rag, if he flips town then you have me clear as mafia and can lynch me.  This angle serves me no gain, especially not the one Rag argued (that I was doing it to defend Turin) because Turin is dead and because Rag wasn't a threat to Turin when I revealed and attempted to get Rag killed.

 

I repeat, Vote Rag

 

Missed this post before. All I can go by is what I know. I know my own alignment, I know my own ability, and I have to sift through everything else. It's really confusing with 4 factions and people's alignments changing nightly. Your play appears to have shifted a bit in D2, and you got @ Rags with an unverifiable claim and pressured me to kill him on the spot even though if your claim was true, I would have died. 

 

I'm not sure why you think I'm a god now. Yes, I bluffed being a day vig, but is that scummy? I got people talking, I got people worried. 

 

Keep in mind I have no reason to believe your view on me would have failed. What did your result actually say? Because you now have two unverifiable night claims... that's obviously gonna make me suspicious. 

 

Also: Turin didn't side with you in thread. He actually took an opposite stance to you, which is what made me suspicious of your link when you got @ Rags because Rags got @ Turin. 

 

As for my decision for the vig kill:

-Dice claimed cop

-Darthe claimed role cop

-Dap started looking reasonably good at EOD1 so I was afraid to shoot him. He also looked good after I said I shot Clae.

 

I went for the person I thought was a good candidate to either be useless or recruited, Clae, and she turned out to be a town PR. FML. It sucked, but it doesn't make me scum.

 

I guess what it comes down to is it's hard for me to believe anyone. Your story and your presentation seems sketchier than Rags's. 

 

 

Which story from Rags? He hasn't really said anything but "I'm VT and you're lying". Though, to be honest, I am not sure what else he could say. On top of that, if Rags was speaking the truth, why would Darthe try to kill an un-claimed townie (who is therefore likely to be VT), while it would clearly cost him his life?

 

 

Tom why am I supposed to present my case to you?  My argument is to a town that is, by and large, missing.  I know something and based on my claim vs rag's this is a simple and straightforward case.  Risk vs reward.  

 

Town rolecop vs town vanilla, which do you risk if they claim differing things?

Negative investigation vs "That's not true!" which do you go for in any situation EVER?

We could even be more vague about this.

PR VS VANILLA?

RESULT + INFO VS _____?

 

And if I am telling the truth and you lynch rag then you gain a mafia kill right there.

If I am telling the truth and you lynch me you lose a PR then lose another townie to NK or recruit and then get a mafia.

 

If I am lying and you lynch rag you lose a vanilla and get a mafia.  <----Still one less than if you lynch me an I am truthful

 

 

This is a 75% probability in my favor.  Simple as that without any arguing or rhetoric or WIFOM or control issues.  This is a nonissue and CANNOT BE ARGUED LOGICALLY

 

 

 

Considering the claims made yesterday...I would think we can guarantee that one of Darthe or Dice has been recruited. 

 

We can't because you're scum and so can't be trusted.

 

 

The basis of your argument is(assuming you aren't lying)...I dunno what happened but hey, at worst we lose a townie.

 

That is horrendous logic. 

 

Know why?  Cause players > roles.

 

 

Considering you're about equally skilled players, at least in my opinion, it's all about the roles.

 

Sure Tommy, I'll play. I don't like today. You claimed vig, but could just as easily have been mafia lying to be a vig- so that screws with one of my town reads a lot. 

There are 3 things I don't like about the Rags/Darthe situation 1- Since when does town cry over testing a scummy player who claims VT? All of a sudden Rags acts like possible numbers far outweigh power roles. That's just wrong. 2- I liked it when you were asking questions impartially. Now it looks like you're heavily buddying Rags to lynch Darthe and I have Rags' case as weaker in this argument. Please explain if and why I am misinterpreting the situation between you and Rags. Cause to be honest the switch from impartial to partial feels like you've been recruited last night. Unless you can think of a reason a faction would not want to lynch someone with a kill ability? 3- Even though I like Darthe's case more, it feels fairly fishy that he's fos'ing both of the people on the other side of his argument and claiming he got weird results back, but falls short of actually saying what the results are. Possibility here: Darthe is a deity and his "weird" result is that he tried to recruit/nk someone and it didn't take. As such, he wouldn't want to claim "guilty" or "scum" because he doesn't know what real language Dice gets when he investigates someone. 

 

This sums up a lot of my thoughts too.

 

the one option you left out golden is we lynch rags he flips scum we belkieve darthe  who was already recruited.

 

 

thats what worries me

 

Just don't take anyone as "town for granted".

[GoldeneyesND]

vote Rags

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Official Vote Count

 

Darthe (1/5): Rag

 

Rag (3/5): Darthe, Dice, Goldy

 

 

Not voting: Hallia, Ley, Dap, Tommy, GF

 

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Darthe]

SUPERBOWL SUNDAY!

 

hi all, im back amd will be responding to stuff in a few.

[Leyrann]

Just realized I forgot to vote Rag, but seeing as it'd bring him to L-1 I might wait a bit with it.

[Graendals favourite]

It almost seems hasty to me, though I can see the logic. I will wait until I'm more comfortable with it.

[Darthe]

It has taken two day phases.  What part of this is hasty?

 

Also, from what I have read I have very little to respond to.  Most of your questions all seem aimed at Rag.  Glad GE is acknowledging my logic here.  I also think it odd how Tom was swayed by GE when I said essentially the same thing just a few pages before.  Did you need to hear it from a different person?

[Tommyrod]

It has taken two day phases.  What part of this is hasty?

 

Also, from what I have read I have very little to respond to.  Most of your questions all seem aimed at Rag.  Glad GE is acknowledging my logic here.  I also think it odd how Tom was swayed by GE when I said essentially the same thing just a few pages before.  Did you need to hear it from a different person?

Yes.

 

I'm still town, I just can't trust anyone. Bluuurgh. 

[Leyrann]

It almost seems hasty to me, though I can see the logic. I will wait until I'm more comfortable with it.

 

You just reminded me that you are in the game... Please get more active, because I'm starting to feel like policy-lynching the un-cc'ed doc is worth it due to 0 contribution.

[TheRagnarok]

Rags- I've read your criticisms of Darthe's play and we both agree he's not completely honest. My question is: why would scum offer to essentially sacrifice themselves to lynch a VT? If it was to shut you up, why didn't you get NK'd last night? It seems scum Darthe would have been better served doing nearly ANYTHING besides essentially engaging in a Mexican standoff with you. Your comments didn't get Turin killed, the cop read did.

Well, I was pushing Turin from the beginning and the sacrifice would have been Darthe for me.  Keeping Turin alive.  Which was the most important. 

 

And if I had been NK'ed last night, Darthe would be killed this day phase.  So why would they hasten their own demise?

[Leyrann]

^There's one fatal flaw though: It's about shutting you up. If they wanted to NK you, Darthe wouldn't have claimed. So Golden is simply right there.

[TheRagnarok]

^There's one fatal flaw though: It's about shutting you up. If they wanted to NK you, Darthe wouldn't have claimed. So Golden is simply right there.

It was about that.  But what else can I do to try and expose Darthe(aside from dying)?  At this point, better to let town waste a lynch on me than waste a kill/recruitment taking me out.

[dapianoplay3r]

Right i had an engagement party then work, hence the absence

id like to point out that i speculated prs might lose thier role after a recruit, and noone seemed to care. Now today someone busted it out like its a brand new brainwave.

I dont like how you all missed the mayor claim. I mean seriously. Shes new, she woupdnt know how to make up a role to claim and it cant be a charater claim cos shed be modkilled for that.

Anyway

ive been uncomgortable with darthes claim since he said it. Its a mess and i hate it but the way tommy is pushing darthe over rags makes me super uneasy and im happy with a rags lynch ocer darthe.

Darthe is next anyway if rags is toown.

 

Oh hally had a few awful pposts. Still watching her.

 

Hmm.

Vant think of anything else rigjt now

(hungover and cleaning the house so im aroud)

 

Post ing to check for a ninja vote cos i dont wanna hammmr

[dapianoplay3r]

vote rags

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Official Vote Count

 

Darthe (1/5): Rag

 

Rag (4/5): Darthe, Dice, Goldy, Dap

 

 

Not voting: Hallia, Ley, Tommy, GF

 

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[dapianoplay3r]

Gf wont hammer

it leaves scummy hally

ley

reluctant tom

 

interesting results

[Darthe]

No kidding. I highly suspect a tom recruit.